[R_thanatos]

So one area ?

that's it ?

Area that are pointless ( in term of design, story ) are in this game in spades ...

If you wanted fights , you have the paradox monsters and some others stuff too ..
Otherwise you're complaining about why didn't had the dlc for free with the game , you should complain at all of them not just ff13-2

[CorvoSol]

you made some mistakes in your answer .. he didn't build it from scratch , he used existing parts ..it's like lego! much easier than creating from nothing ( something he can't do ) Also he didn't work on it for 13 years but on 3! From 10AF ( where he know about cocoon failing) to 13AF where he is killed by the tower paradox. It is also said and written in the datalog than The parts causing real threat were to be removed by design when creating the proto falcie ( his original plan ).. At the time , his only other option would have been to jump into an unproven time stopping capsule to go in the future to observe something that might help his plan or not with no garantee of going back and no garantee of being able to use "said " anomaly to his advantage ... Between a plan he can do and a risky plan with no garantees whatsoever, i'm not surprised he even tried. Also yes academy wants people to stand on their two feet yet ..that didn't prevent them from failling appart in several paradoxes scénarios

Whether or not he used pre-existing parts doesn't excuse the fact that he made it work. Eden was dead from the moment Hope himself aided in killing Orphan. How, pray tell, did Hope manage to get Adam to run on its own since all other Pulse Fal'Cie required Orphan's continued existence for them to live? How did he revive Eden's parts for Adam if she was dead already? Where did he even figure that out? The Proto Fal'Cie project is the equivalent of Dr. Frankenstein's Monster, except at least Dr. Frankenstein had centuries of understanding about the human body to start with. In the space of 13 years (0 AF-13 AF) Hope managed to know more about how Fal'Cie work than anybody, and managed to build a better Fal'Cie than Lindzei did. It's unreasonable. Hope was never a genius in FFXIII, and to assume he's now literally smarter than a God is a big leap.

And I still refuse to believe he needed to time travel at all. How was jumping forward into the future an option for him at all? What good did it ever accomplish? Had Hope actually stuck around in the past, he could have better influenced the future. Why he didn't just ask Serah to run errands for him is beyond me.

And there's still the matter of the gravity crystals. Why didn't he use those to relevitate Cocoon? Why did Cocoon fall if we eliminated all the causes of its fall? Why does the game tell me I can change the future, then refuse to let me do so?

[Mario007]

Whether or not he used pre-existing parts doesn't excuse the fact that he made it work. Eden was dead from the moment Hope himself aided in killing Orphan. How, pray tell, did Hope manage to get Adam to run on its own since all other Pulse Fal'Cie required Orphan's continued existence for them to live? How did he revive Eden's parts for Adam if she was dead already? Where did he even figure that out? The Proto Fal'Cie project is the equivalent of Dr. Frankenstein's Monster, except at least Dr. Frankenstein had centuries of understanding about the human body to start with. In the space of 13 years (0 AF-13 AF) Hope managed to know more about how Fal'Cie work than anybody, and managed to build a better Fal'Cie than Lindzei did. It's unreasonable. Hope was never a genius in FFXIII, and to assume he's now literally smarter than a God is a big leap. And I still refuse to believe he needed to time travel at all. How was jumping forward into the future an option for him at all? What good did it ever accomplish? Had Hope actually stuck around in the past, he could have better influenced the future. Why he didn't just ask Serah to run errands for him is beyond me. And there's still the matter of the gravity crystals. Why didn't he use those to relevitate Cocoon? Why did Cocoon fall if we eliminated all the causes of its fall? Why does the game tell me I can change the future, then refuse to let me do so?

I guess it's really the central message of the game, no matter what you do the future will not change. Noel and Serah went and eliminated one cause for Cocoon's fall after another only for a new cause to appear. Caius himself got exactly what he wanted straight from the start even though he made you feel like you've won etc.

[MoogPaul]

LOVED the game. Story was meh, characters worked for me (Noel more than Serah), I enjoyed the "grayness" of the Ciaus's motives, the music rocked, battle system was great, the side content was set up wonderfully. I'm not a fan of the whole monster catching thing but I also understand that a lot of people do. I eagerly await XIII-3.

[R_thanatos]

Whether or not he used pre-existing parts doesn't excuse the fact that he made it work. Eden was dead from the moment Hope himself aided in killing Orphan. How, pray tell, did Hope manage to get Adam to run on its own since all other Pulse Fal'Cie required Orphan's continued existence for them to live? How did he revive Eden's parts for Adam if she was dead already? Where did he even figure that out? The Proto Fal'Cie project is the equivalent of Dr. Frankenstein's Monster, except at least Dr. Frankenstein had centuries of understanding about the human body to start with. In the space of 13 years (0 AF-13 AF) Hope managed to know more about how Fal'Cie work than anybody, and managed to build a better Fal'Cie than Lindzei did. It's unreasonable. Hope was never a genius in FFXIII, and to assume he's now literally smarter than a God is a big leap. And I still refuse to believe he needed to time travel at all. How was jumping forward into the future an option for him at all? What good did it ever accomplish? Had Hope actually stuck around in the past, he could have better influenced the future. Why he didn't just ask Serah to run errands for him is beyond me. And there's still the matter of the gravity crystals. Why didn't he use those to relevitate Cocoon? Why did Cocoon fall if we eliminated all the causes of its fall? Why does the game tell me I can change the future, then refuse to let me do so?

-Hope didn't finish the tower the tower was finished by itself ( that why the proto falcie can rebuild himself and recreate himself stronger if defeated ).
And that's why the fact that hope never even attempted to build the falcie the factor for it to disapear.
-time travel was needed because other than his "project" he had no solutions to work it out in his time period..

Had Hope actually stuck around in the past, he could have better influenced the future.

Actually his presence in the past was so strong that in the future he managed to keep his position intact..so that argument in untrue.
he has no technology and his original plan is doomed to fail.. hasn't he already influenced the future enough ?

Why he didn't just ask Serah to run errands for him is beyond me.

He did .. did you miss the gravition cores ?
When you meet hope the third time in 10AF , he hasn't seen the gravition paradox yet, he can't ask you .. and you never meet him afterward except academia 4xxAF where he has already travelled .. Acting instead of waiting for support that might never come is the logical choice..

And there's still the matter of the gravity crystals. Why didn't he use those to relevitate Cocoon?

He used them to levitate the new home , bulve-something ..if it wasn't for caius , it would have worked perfectly. I'm pretty sure the new home hope built was made with the cores in mind, unlike cocoon.

Why did Cocoon fall if we eliminated all the causes of its fall?

it was bound to fall from the start , all the other things only speeded up that process leaving no time for anyone to find a solution.
the fall of cocoon is an unavoidable event .. it's supported by a crystal pillar that worked for 500 years !!! From the start it was a temporary solution given by vanille + fang sacrifice.

In one of the endings you see a war between cocoon factions that , saw that the pillar will fall and haven't enough time to think of a decent solution leading to chaos and division in academia and thus war ...

my conclusion is that the fall of cocoon is an unavoidable event that vanille & fang delayed.

Why does the game tell me I can change the future, then refuse to let me do so?

it's the theme of the game, otherwise it wouldn't have ended like this. Caius keep saying that it's pointless ...

[Mario007]

it's the theme of the game, otherwise it wouldn't have ended like this. Caius keep saying that it's pointless ...

For all the bad things I said about this game's writing in the OP I actually really enjoyed this part. Caius, from the very start tells you that the world will end no matter what you do and that by continuing to travel through time you're only making things worse. And you dismiss it because 'the bad guy said it so it must be a lie'. In the end though, the world ending is inevitable no matter what you do. I mean even Caius himself keeps seeing his plans to end the world blown up and yet the world still ends. He goes to Valhalla to kill Etro but Lightning stops him. Then he wants to make Cocoon fall like Dysley did in the first game and he is stopped multiple times by Noel and Serah. But even when he is actually defeated and killed the world will still end and in the end what he wanted does happen. Basically Caius is right from the very beginning, the world will end anyway and so he might as well end it sooner to prevent Yuel from dying over and over.

It's a very clever concept in a time-travelling game- you actually can't change the future. I just wish it would be shown off a bit better in the game itself. A better presentation of this idea could really drive it home.

This sort of 'Caius said so' comes back again at the end when he says he killed Lightning and Noel just dismisses it as a provocation from Caius, then Caius said Lightning is now crystal and yet again no one believed him only for the last scene of the game revealing that he was right.

It's kinda funny but this game basically tells you 'you can't change things just because you really, really wish that things would change' which is in complete contrast with the ending of the original. I guess it's more about Etro paying the price for her meddling.


I actually here to post my impression of the Lightning DLC. I enjoyed it actually. It showed off that this battle system is excellent at one-on-one combat (something the turn-based combat of the previous FFs wasn't that great at). In fact if they decided to put this sort of a combat and leveling mechanic into FF XIII-3 as an arena/multiplayer content I would really like it.

Storywise I finally felt some sort of connection to the Serah and Lighting relationship. Serah also developed out of nowhere and while it was nice, that sort of development should have been foreshadowed before in the game. Lightning becoming the crystal to 'safeguard Serah's memory' was a really far-off concept and I didn't really see her motivation behind it. How would that really help anyone? Also the epilogue ending I felt was Toriyama trying too hard to pull a Nomura mindfuck and cliffhanger for the next game which could work out nicely but the problem there was that people actually didn't want the sequel or the FF XIII-3 that will follow.
Also honestly, I felt this should have been in the game though the price was very small so it's ok.

[CorvoSol]

-Hope didn't finish the tower the tower was finished by itself ( that why the proto falcie can rebuild himself and recreate himself stronger if defeated ). And that's why the fact that hope never even attempted to build the falcie the factor for it to disapear. -time travel was needed because other than his "project" he had no solutions to work it out in his time period.. Actually his presence in the past was so strong that in the future he managed to keep his position intact..so that argument in untrue. he has no technology and his original plan is doomed to fail.. hasn't he already influenced the future enough ? He did .. did you miss the gravition cores ? When you meet hope the third time in 10AF , he hasn't seen the gravition paradox yet, he can't ask you .. and you never meet him afterward except academia 4xxAF where he has already travelled .. Acting instead of waiting for support that might never come is the logical choice.. He used them to levitate the new home , bulve-something ..if it wasn't for caius , it would have worked perfectly. I'm pretty sure the new home hope built was made with the cores in mind, unlike cocoon. it was bound to fall from the start , all the other things only speeded up that process leaving no time for anyone to find a solution. the fall of cocoon is an unavoidable event .. it's supported by a crystal pillar that worked for 500 years !!! From the start it was a temporary solution given by vanille + fang sacrifice. In one of the endings you see a war between cocoon factions that , saw that the pillar will fall and haven't enough time to think of a decent solution leading to chaos and division in academia and thus war ... my conclusion is that the fall of cocoon is an unavoidable event that vanille & fang delayed. it's the theme of the game, otherwise it wouldn't have ended like this. Caius keep saying that it's pointless ...

1. When Hope died the Proto Fal'Cie Project was already a thing. That's indisputable, and it's the source of a huge hole in the plot. I don't care if it was computers or 5000 men, nobody should have been able to build that damned thing. We don't have machines for making suns, and since ADAM could do all the other Fal'Cie's jobs, he must've been able to do Phoenix's, and Phoenix was nothing short of being a sun. It's straight up stupid to suggest that they had the technology to build a Fal'Cie that could do everything, including float Cocoon, AND the technology to float a second, not-Cocoon, but not the technology to float Cocoon itself.

2. My argument isn't untrue. The fact that Academia was so stupid they let a guy 400 years out of date right back into running things has nothing to do with what I was saying. I'm saying that IN THE PAST YOU CAN AFFECT THE FUTURE, because in reality, changing the past changes the future, not the other way around. From the past Hope could have done more than wasting 400 years traveling into the future. If he needed stuff done in the future, he should have sent Serah. And hey, look, you yourself see that he did JUST THAT when he hit 400 AF, so WHY DIDN'T HE DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE? How is it waiting at all if Serah and Noel are time travelers? They can go away for five years and return to what is essentially one minute after they left. Hope wasted more time waiting in his time capsule than if he'd just sent Serah and Noel to do things for him.

3. If the fall of Cocoon is inevitable (nevermind how utterly stupid that is, because that crystal pillar was standing for a mere 500 years, and I don't know if you know this, but 500 years isn't hardly enough time to erode a pillar of solid crystal of the size it would take to hold up Cocoon) WHY THE HELL DOES THE GAME TELL ME I CAN STOP IT? Everyone is all "Let's save Cocoon and change the future and blah-de-blah!" But then, come the ending, you don't save Cocoon, you don't change the future, and then Toriyama decides he's run out of bad ideas and you have to wait till next time to see how he'll ruin this story. Saving Serah and Cocoon was the entire point of the struggle in FFXIII. XIII-2's ending just sort of laughs and craps all over that.

[Perfo]

Everyone is all "Let's save Cocoon and change the future and blah-de-blah!" But then, come the ending, you don't save Cocoon, you don't change the future, and then Toriyama decides he's run out of bad ideas and you have to wait till next time to see how he'll ruin this story. Saving Serah and Cocoon was the entire point of the struggle in FFXIII. XIII-2's ending just sort of laughs and craps all over that.

Wait I sec, the way I got it is not that they intended to save Cocoon just for the sake of it, but the people living in there and below it. They changed the future by allowing Hope to finish his Bhunivelze and acting as an Ark saving all the humanity in peril. They changed the future, because initially Bhunivelze, the Ark, shouldn't being there and humanity would be wiped out from the worlds like in Noel's future (700 AF).

[King of the Potato People]

I loved FF XIII-2. It's just really silly fun with mental stuff like Chocolina, Captain Cryptic and the Casino of Time.

Also Caius is a competent villain and the music is incredibly catchy. I can see it gaining some traction and becoming a bit of a cult favorite.

[Perfo]

I loved FF XIII-2. It's just really silly fun with mental stuff like Chocolina, Captain Cryptic and the Casino of Time. Also Caius is a competent villain and the music is incredibly catchy. I can see it gaining some traction and becoming a bit of a cult favorite.

Usually with Final Fantasy a game in the series becomes a cult when the next one comes out. The XIII trilogy will be beloved all over the world in ten years from now. It's math. Of course the new one will be the new "shit" ruined by *insert name* game director Square just used.

[Sonoshee Cherry]

I really disliked XIII-2.

The actual battle system is great in XIII, but in XIII-2 it becomes easy to the point of meaningless. For all the ease of use fixes they added, they feel pointless. Like, leader death not being a game over dosent really matter because you never will die.

The new leveling system is cool and finds a balance between having characters specially attuned to one style, but you eventually will have everything anyway.

The monster system sucks, firstly I just hate having monsters in my party anyway. But it sucks in XIII-2 because the need those special things to level so it kind of becomes tideos to level them.

Outside of that the story is awful, though Noel is cool.

Oh and the music makes for the best OST this gen.

But either way, the game was pretty bad. XIII was so much better.

[Tigel]

But either way, the game was pretty bad. XIII was so much better.

What am I reading?
Except from a technical standpoint (and maybe in the music department, though it's debatable) FFXIII-2 is better than XIII in every possible way.

[BlazingDarkness]

I think XIII-2 is a genuinely good game
Yes it suffers from Toriyama's writing, and technically it's no where near as polished as XIII, but XIII is all style and no substance, at least XIII-2 has places for us to explore - as for the writing, the plot is generally more creative and I personally loved the shock ending and so I was able to enjoy it despite the writing

I understand that XIII-2 exists almost solely by dramatically altering the outcome fought for in XIII, but I was never a fan of XIII, nor it's world or characters, I feel there is much more life to the world and it's characters, as a result of the sequel and I think that's a great thing

[Sonoshee Cherry]

What am I reading? Except from a technical standpoint (and maybe in the music department, though it's debatable) FFXIII-2 is better than XIII in every possible way.

Gameplay is better in XIII, thanks to a better balanced battle system. Outside of one chapter, the game doesn't feel like filler. The story is better and makes more sense, its far more interesting to follow. While non of them have great cast at least I like the cast of XIII over Serah, but Noel is great.

You go to way more interesting places in XIII, which is why I play a FF game. Sure the are hallways, but they are pretty hallways. I don't want to explore most of XIII-2.

So in my opinion XIII is way better.

[R_thanatos]

1. When Hope died the Proto Fal'Cie Project was already a thing. That's indisputable, and it's the source of a huge hole in the plot. I don't care if it was computers or 5000 men, nobody should have been able to build that damned thing. We don't have machines for making suns, and since ADAM could do all the other Fal'Cie's jobs, he must've been able to do Phoenix's, and Phoenix was nothing short of being a sun. It's straight up stupid to suggest that they had the technology to build a Fal'Cie that could do everything, including float Cocoon, AND the technology to float a second, not-Cocoon, but not the technology to float Cocoon itself. 2. My argument isn't untrue. The fact that Academia was so stupid they let a guy 400 years out of date right back into running things has nothing to do with what I was saying. I'm saying that IN THE PAST YOU CAN AFFECT THE FUTURE, because in reality, changing the past changes the future, not the other way around. From the past Hope could have done more than wasting 400 years traveling into the future. If he needed stuff done in the future, he should have sent Serah. And hey, look, you yourself see that he did JUST THAT when he hit 400 AF, so WHY DIDN'T HE DO IT IN THE FIRST PLACE? How is it waiting at all if Serah and Noel are time travelers? They can go away for five years and return to what is essentially one minute after they left. Hope wasted more time waiting in his time capsule than if he'd just sent Serah and Noel to do things for him. 3. If the fall of Cocoon is inevitable (nevermind how utterly stupid that is, because that crystal pillar was standing for a mere 500 years, and I don't know if you know this, but 500 years isn't hardly enough time to erode a pillar of solid crystal of the size it would take to hold up Cocoon) WHY THE HELL DOES THE GAME TELL ME I CAN STOP IT? Everyone is all "Let's save Cocoon and change the future and blah-de-blah!" But then, come the ending, you don't save Cocoon, you don't change the future, and then Toriyama decides he's run out of bad ideas and you have to wait till next time to see how he'll ruin this story. Saving Serah and Cocoon was the entire point of the struggle in FFXIII. XIII-2's ending just sort of laughs and craps all over that.

NO no no

1- hope died in that timeline because a paradox occured , and the tower completed itself .. the point of that loop is that it can build himself stronger each time defeated ... it's not HOPE work in play but the paradox here ..Hope Never finished the tower, nobody did but the tower itself
You're telling me , hope can't do it when he is NOT the one that arrived to this result. you're missing the point here

2- because of the paradoxes , the paradoxes gates and all the phenomenon that are happning, the opposite is also true , the future affect the past ..the reason is atlas . Atlas was created in a certain future , and is activatly affecting the past ..Without atlas ( and the specific atlas paradox in the ruins ) can you argue that alyssa and hope will meet the same fate ?
Also hope didn't have the "new plan" for the gravition core untill Noel & serah departed ..and had no point of reaching them other than going into the future ...futhermore HE asked them for help since he can't travel trough time easily.

3- Perfo is 100% right in this answer :

Wait I sec, the way I got it is not that they intended to save Cocoon just for the sake of it, but the people living in there and below it. They changed the future by allowing Hope to finish his Bhunivelze and acting as an Ark saving all the humanity in peril. They changed the future, because initially Bhunivelze, the Ark, shouldn't being there and humanity would be wiped out from the worlds like in Noel's future (700 AF).

They did change things , lot of things even, they didn't prevent the appearance of chaos , but they saved vanille & fang crystals , created the ark and prevented huges damages to the earth by softening cocoon fall.

[Mario007]

3. If the fall of Cocoon is inevitable (nevermind how utterly stupid that is, because that crystal pillar was standing for a mere 500 years, and I don't know if you know this, but 500 years isn't hardly enough time to erode a pillar of solid crystal of the size it would take to hold up Cocoon) WHY THE HELL DOES THE GAME TELL ME I CAN STOP IT? Everyone is all "Let's save Cocoon and change the future and blah-de-blah!" But then, come the ending, you don't save Cocoon, you don't change the future, and then Toriyama decides he's run out of bad ideas and you have to wait till next time to see how he'll ruin this story. Saving Serah and Cocoon was the entire point of the struggle in FFXIII. XIII-2's ending just sort of laughs and craps all over that.

Once again as I've written above the whole point of the game, which you learn at the end is that you CAN'T change the future substantially. Noel and Serah try and fail, even Caius fails for the most part, Lightning fails and Etro fails big time. The ending is one of the consequences of your actions throughout the two games.

Also the two games, though it is not explicitly stated, are basically about the mistakes Etro made while trying to help out. She was always classified as the 'good' goddess but also the 'foolish' one as well. I mean look at the thing she's done:

1. She gives Eidolons to the l'cie- being that many times can kill the l'cie and also can kill others on l'cie's commands. All to give the l'cie hope and conviction.
2. She prevented Fang from tearing down Cocoon- this action doesn't really seem to have much consequences....well apart from the whole first game really.
3. It is heavily hinted that she helped Vanille and Fang to create the Crystal Pillar- and as a consequence it eventually falls and kills everyone on Cocoon (in the original future).
4. She uncrystalled the whole party from the first game- her intrusion causing the time to be distorted and many Yuels dying leading Caius to eventually fight Noel in Valhalla and his death causing the death of Etro herself.

The ending is one of consequences and is in start contrast to FF XIII's ending.

[CrankyJay]

Just finished the game. My mind is full of fuck. What's the deal with Alyssa? Does any side quest explain this? How many paradox endings are there? What is this perfect ending that was mentioned?

[linko9]

I find it extremely odd that all of the things in the OP's "like" list are plot/character-related. To each his own I guess. For the record, I though the overall plot was fine, but what made me really enjoy this game was that it incorporated XIII's excellent battle system into a far less linear world. In fact, this is one of the least linear RPGs I've ever played; you can do many events in lots of different orders, and of course the areas are pretty explorable. It's almost like they made a conscious decision to go as far away from XIII as possible in that regard.

[Bladenic]

I liked it a lot. Will play XIII-3.

Also the music is stellar. It's hard to decide which is better between the two games, though I might have to give the edge slightly to XIII.

[Mr. Fix]

I still have this sitting on my shelf. I'll give it a go soon, but the dialogue between Lightning and Caius at the start? Good Lord, it's so bad.

[CrankyJay]

I liked it a lot. Will play XIII-3. Also the music is stellar. It's hard to decide which is better between the two games, though I might have to give the edge slightly to XIII.

That's why it's awesome most of the music from XIII is in XIII-2. Was not expecting a XIII-3 at all. I'm shocked.

[Seda]

Just finished the game. My mind is full of fuck. What's the deal with Alyssa? Does any side quest explain this? How many paradox endings are there? What is this perfect ending that was mentioned?

Alyssa's story is never really brought to the surface, basically she only exists because of the distorted timeline, otherwise she is killed in the Purge, so she for a moment decides to betray Serah and Noel.

I'm probably simplifying it too much. Thanatos (I think) had a good post explaining it in some other thread.

EDIT: Actually it was ZenaxPure in this thread.

Actually she had a reason, but it was very easy to miss. If you recall from the start of the game the first time you meet her she mentions that she was having nightmares and such about how she was one of the people who died in the purge. When all the time stuff got messed up she was revived as a side effect in this new time, but still retained the memories of what happened (similar to Serah remembering Lightning, though not exactly the same). So yeah, her reason was simply because she thought Serah/Noel fixing things would end in her death. (which one of the Paradox endings fleshes out a bit more, even if it is mostly comedic). It's there, but it's a subtle thing you have to put together yourself - it's not blasted in front of your face like everything else. Otherwise, good to see more people enjoyed Caius, he was pretty much fantastic.

[R_thanatos]

Just finished the game. My mind is full of fuck. What's the deal with Alyssa? Does any side quest explain this? How many paradox endings are there? What is this perfect ending that was mentioned?

Going from memory , you have 8 paradox endings ( you can check what you have left to see in the list of fragments .. you'll see what you haven't see and additionnal info )
Alyssa disapeared because noel and serah continued to solves paradoxes .

There was supposed to be a Dlc for hope ( in augusta tower ) with alyssa but this idea was scrapped. Unfortunatly going by her revelance in the story we won't see her ever again.

I'm probably simplifying it too much. Thanatos (I think) had a good post explaining it in some other thread. EDIT: Actually it was ZenaxPure in this thread.

You're not wrong .. i did said the same kind of explanations in other threads.

[Kagari]

Just finished the game. My mind is full of fuck. What's the deal with Alyssa? Does any side quest explain this? How many paradox endings are there? What is this perfect ending that was mentioned?

Thinking about the sequel to this sequel really gives me a massive headache.

[CrankyJay]

Thinking about the sequel to this sequel really gives me a massive headache.

Yeah. Some aspects of the game were beautifully done, I just don't understand Square's insistence on making nearly impossible plots to follow or long winded speaking segments. Things were repeated too much. Wasn't expecting a third game to this at all. Still like the battle system and visuals and music are top notch. NPCs for missions looked boxy and generic compared to other NPCs.

I had fun getting platinum on 13 so I will probably go for it here.

[Jawmuncher]

2. Difficulty. The game was waaaaay too easy. I mean I enjoyed the final boss, but even the three fights with Caius beforehand were very simple and easy. The final boss was actually the only time that I was forced to use my synergist role ever in the game. Also i used Gremlin as my ravanger for the full game, which says a lot about that.

I had to play the game on easy.
I was more worried about beating it so I really didn't want to have to grind.
Once I put it on easy though it indeed was easy expcept for the boss fights you mentioned.
It took a lot of skill with the Battle System for me to pull them off.
Hell took me 30 minutes to beat the last boss.

HOWEVER
I regret nothing, honestly made the game more fun personally.

[Omikaru]

It's a shame the story in this is such garbage, because the gameplay is surprisingly good. I loved XIII's battle system, and this one is pretty much more of that, with the added benefit that you're not just running in a straight line for the entire game.

Toriyama really should be banned from writing. He's terrible.

[CrankyJay]

It's a shame the story in this is such garbage, because the gameplay is surprisingly good. I loved XIII's battle system, and this one is pretty much more of that, with the added benefit that you're not just running in a straight line for the entire game. Toriyama really should be banned from writing. He's terrible.

At least with this FF they didn't pull the old "Here is what we think is the bad guy" and then do the switcheroo to reveal the real bad guy.

Was waiting for that twist the entire time.

The other thing I don't get is why did they need a new coccoon? Why couldn't everyone just live on Gran Pulse?

[Esura]

At least with this FF they didn't pull the old "Here is what we think is the bad guy" and then do the switcheroo to reveal the real bad guy. Was waiting for that twist the entire time. The other thing I don't get is why did they need a new coccoon? Why couldn't everyone just live on Gran Pulse?

Because the old Cocoon was going to kill them. And by kill them I mean falling ontop of them and crushing them to death and making the entire spot where it falls not suitable to live on.

[CrankyJay]

Because the old Cocoon was going to kill them.

Oh, Gran Pulse was going to get destroyed from the old Cocoon falling? So the new Cocoon was an evacuation of sorts?

[Esura]

Oh, Gran Pulse was going to get destroyed from the old Cocoon falling? So the new Cocoon was an evacuation of sorts?

Yeah, pretty much.

Originally Hope built a proto Fal'Cie so it could lift Cocoon back up and avoid the disaster all together but that didn't work out quite as he hoped it would.

[CrankyJay]

Yeah, pretty much. Originally Hope built a proto Fal'Cie so it could lift Cocoon back up and avoid the disaster all together but that didn't work out quite as he hoped it would.

Yeah I got that...just amazed I missed this simple plot point. Thank you.

I honestly think I missed it in all the rabble that all the dialog and cutscenes represent. They really need to simplify the plot or at least how they reveal/present it.

It seemed entirely unrealistic (yeah yeah, it's a fantasy game) that Serah was able to just pull these theories out of the air and piece together this story. lol

[Celegus]

I agree with most of the OP, and greatly enjoyed XIII and then XIII-2 even more. I thought the story was fantastic. I'm sure there's plenty of plot holes if you really start digging, but I have no interest in that... the story they presented was good enough for me; it felt good to just take it in as it came and not rack my brain trying to connect all the dots.

[Esura]

Yeah I got that...just amazed I missed this simple plot point. Thank you. I honestly think I missed it in all the rabble that all the dialog and cutscenes represent. They really need to simplify the plot or at least how they reveal/present it. It seemed entirely unrealistic (yeah yeah, it's a fantasy game) that Serah was able to just pull these theories out of the air and piece together this story. lol

If you noticed during Noel's flashback segment, Gran Pulse was completely covered in crystal shards and there isn't any Cocoon in the sky. (don't know if you knew this or not, ignore if you did)

All that didn't bother me though as I just usually take stories at face value. Probably why I don't get confused easily when it comes to RPG plots.

[CrankyJay]

If you noticed during Noel's flashback segment, Gran Pulse was completely covered in crystal shards and there isn't any Cocoon in the sky. All that didn't bother me though as I just usually take stories at face value. Probably why I don't get confused easily when it comes to RPG plots.

Haha, I just considered it sand. Didn't really put two and two together that it was disintegrated crystal.

[Angelcurio]

Just finished the game. My mind is full of fuck. What's the deal with Alyssa? Does any side quest explain this? How many paradox endings are there? What is this perfect ending that was mentioned?

Thinking about the sequel to this sequel really gives me a massive headache.

Just finished the game last night, and i was extremely surprised by how suddenly everything changed from happy ending to the destruction of all humanity. I thought that maybe when i get all the crystals i was going to get some kind of good ending, but from the comments on this thread looks like what i saw was the actual ending of the game. Talk about an unexpected ending.

I really enjoyed the game and the historia crux. Also Caius was finally a good villain, it has been a while since the last time a somwhat decent villain appeared in a Final Fantasy game. The loading times was definitely a problem each time you entered a new era, and the graphics quality was definitely a step down from FF XIII, but the character models were really good.

[Crewnh]

I just finished the game yesterday. The time travel in this game makes absolutely no sense at times. How does solving a paradox 200 years in the future solve something in the past? Then there are times when it kind of makes sense, like a monster having a vortex in his stomach, where everything he eats gets sent to the future? That's actually kind of cool. Or you yelling in an anomaly that's connected to another time, which directly effects your current present. There are some neat uses of it. I don't understand the whole Guardian and Heart of Chaos thing. Caius said he killed the last guardian to become the next one. So wouldn't that have killed Etro too?

Lightning being sucked into Valhalla is just completely random. She's a nobody, but now she's the goddesses knight? And she's barely in the game. Same with Serah getting the eyes of etro. Shit just happens in this game for no reason.

Still, it was fun. A bit on the easy side. Noel's a great character and kind of liked Serah and Mog too. It's a lot better XIII gameplay wise. Wish the presentation was up to snuff though cause the framerate just goes all over the place.

[R_thanatos]

I just finished the game yesterday. The time travel in this game makes absolutely no sense at times.

That's because it's not a regular form of time travel.. it's paradox based and it has specific rules ...because the paradox gates exist , everything is interconnected in a weird way ...

How does solving a paradox 200 years in the future solve something in the past? Then there are times when it kind of makes sense, like a monster having a vortex in his stomach, where everything he eats gets sent to the future? That's actually kind of cool. Or you yelling in an anomaly that's connected to another time, which directly effects your current present. There are some neat uses of it. I don't understand the whole Guardian and Heart of Chaos thing. Caius said he killed the last guardian to become the next one. So wouldn't that have killed Etro too?

Guardian of etro are immortal and can't be killed , except by the one raised to kill them. When you do, the new" guardian" get etro heart ( that he is supposed to protect )granting him immortality in the process.
There is paradox ending where noel kill caius and wonders across the timeline as the new guardian. Noel , in the ending not only killed caius , but destroyed ( than to caius or not ) etro hearts ..resolving the paradoxes in a state of nothingness.

Lightning being sucked into Valhalla is just completely random. She's a nobody, but now she's the goddesses knight?

She is not a nobody.. She is part of the 6 that defied their fate ( ff13 ) and etro is the one that gave them power for the final battle ( that part were they were about to lose ).
Lightning became a knight and received more powers from etro when she watched the timeline herself and choose to protect it ( she realised that if she didn't then it's game over for everyone ).

And she's barely in the game. Same with Serah getting the eyes of etro. Shit just happens in this game for no reason.

.... It just happened ...it was her fate You could argue that etro de crystalised mostly everyone for a reason..

Still, it was fun. A bit on the easy side. Noel's a great character and kind of liked Serah and Mog too. It's a lot better XIII gameplay wise. Wish the presentation was up to snuff though cause the framerate just goes all over the place.

So true. Noel is awesome

[ohlawd]

Ending really got me hahah. I didn't expect that. I finished the game at like 3 in the morning, I'm all sleep deprived and that ending just woke me right up.

If someone asked me to summarize the story, I would just say "Everything was because of a paradox". Kinda like the same vein as nanomachines.

[Metalic]

I liked the gameplay and the locations of the game and I do think that the soundtrack is phenomenal!

It's the writing that holds this game back.

[Goldrush]

I just finished the game yesterday. The time travel in this game makes absolutely no sense at times. How does solving a paradox 200 years in the future solve something in the past? Then there are times when it kind of makes sense, like a monster having a vortex in his stomach, where everything he eats gets sent to the future? That's actually kind of cool. Or you yelling in an anomaly that's connected to another time, which directly effects your current present. There are some neat uses of it. I don't understand the whole Guardian and Heart of Chaos thing. Caius said he killed the last guardian to become the next one. So wouldn't that have killed Etro too? Lightning being sucked into Valhalla is just completely random. She's a nobody, but now she's the goddesses knight? And she's barely in the game. Same with Serah getting the eyes of etro. Shit just happens in this game for no reason. Still, it was fun. A bit on the easy side. Noel's a great character and kind of liked Serah and Mog too. It's a lot better XIII gameplay wise. Wish the presentation was up to snuff though cause the framerate just goes all over the place.

I really love the tagline of "changing the future to change the past." I admits that a lot of it still baffle me, but it makes sense when the cause of many events came from the future. Therefore, stopping the future from going back to the past to mess stuff up fixes the past and, therefore, the future.

[Alucrid]

I just finished the game yesterday. The time travel in this game makes absolutely no sense at times. How does solving a paradox 200 years in the future solve something in the past? Then there are times when it kind of makes sense, like a monster having a vortex in his stomach, where everything he eats gets sent to the future? That's actually kind of cool. Or you yelling in an anomaly that's connected to another time, which directly effects your current present. There are some neat uses of it. I don't understand the whole Guardian and Heart of Chaos thing. Caius said he killed the last guardian to become the next one. So wouldn't that have killed Etro too? Lightning being sucked into Valhalla is just completely random. She's a nobody, but now she's the goddesses knight? And she's barely in the game. Same with Serah getting the eyes of etro. Shit just happens in this game for no reason. Still, it was fun. A bit on the easy side. Noel's a great character and kind of liked Serah and Mog too. It's a lot better XIII gameplay wise. Wish the presentation was up to snuff though cause the framerate just goes all over the place.

Because Caius knows this change will occur and will then go back into the past to alter it so the changed future never exists. Or something.

[hswbaz]

I think this is the first game I got physically angry at in a very long time, just due to the ending. I thought the story was terrible, the writing was terrible, but at least it semi-wrapped up at the end...until the major twist and the To Be Continued... I seem to be the only person who feels this way though so that's all I will say on that.

Edit: I think it didn't help that I came in not expecting a TBC and personally had no reason to ever think they would do something like that.

After reading OP, I went and looked up Toriyama's Wiki and found that the ONLY thing I have enjoyed in all of the games he has directed are the combat (and growth systems). I guess this new generation of Final Fantasy games just isn't for me anymore. Saddening to think as this has been my favorite series since 1 for the NES (until Toriyama took over).

In response to the OP: I like your lttp, one of the most detailed/thoughtful ones I've seen and agree with everything you listed as a dislike (unfortunately I also dislike everything you listed as a like except parts of #s 2, 3 and 5).

[Watch Da Birdie]

I heard the gameplay has improved, but will I bet utterly lost if I don't play Final Fantasy XIII first?

This looks and sounds far more interesting than the first Final Fantasy 13, which, everytime I try and play, I play about 30 minutes and just get bored with it...haven't even got to the part where you actually gain EXP.