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Member
(06-29-2012, 12:56 PM)
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Fanatec Clubsport Wheel, CSP V2, Wheelstand V2 review thread
#1
 No dates have been announced but as of today the NDA is up for the Clubsport Wheel community reviews. Let me lay down the facts. Prices
Price + VAT in Europe = price in dollars except for the Rennsport Wheel Stand V2 The neogaf community selected me as the community tester of Clubsport wheel, hereafter referred to as the CSW. I have opted to keep all components that I tested. I am the proud owner of the:
 Opinion Lets start with the subjective and move on from there. I didn't prepare an unboxing vid but I actually suggest avoiding them if you believe the purchase of a fanatec product is in your future. They have a way with packaging. Just opening the box is a small event meant to cause excitement and reward you for your purchase. Positives Driving with either of the clubsport wheels is amazing. There is ZERO cogging (cogging is that notchy feeling you get if you push an electric motor against its applied force). Or any existing cogging is so finely grained as to be basically imperceptible. The wheel is fast, I'll provide a graph of just how fast later. It's also strong, again just how strong... you'll see. When playing iRacing, pCars, Race 07, rFactor 2 (can't comment much here, there was a bug that made is unworkable until a couple of days ago), you no longer have to anticipate or fight the wheel. It melts away. You can drive completely through the FFB and the seat of your pants. If you need a bit of countersteer, you don't have to force yourself into the proper position. Toss the wheel or let go and the FFB will guide you. Driving is more intuitive. The tactile feedback of the buttons is short and very clicky. The shifters are adjustable and easily removable. The entire thing can be taken apart if you have a set of metric Hex wrenches. You can adjust belt tension without opening the case. You can connect 2 shifters at one time. So you could use one shifter as a gated shifter and the sequential shifter as a handbrake. The hardware is beautiful, solid, and seems built to last. The wheel is also absurdly quiet. As far as I can tell the electric motors are silent. The only noise you hear is of the mechanism itself shifting and the belts gliding. Negatives This was both a review and a beta test. They are still tweaking the firmware and developing the driver to respond how they want. The GT rim itself is heavy. Heavy enough that it slows the free spinning wheel slightly. The firmware is plainly not complete. Damper and Spring settings do not work. A problem with the shifter and firmware prevented me from digging into GT5 as much as I would have liked. While they are still adjusting, initially the wheel dropped or really really killed all force feedback below about 25-30% saturation. This has been corrected with the latest firmware. What you get The CSW base currently has 2 optional rims. Both are wrapped in Alcantara leather. The CSW base features a new bolt pattern if you want to mount it flush. If you are planning on a flush mount and have an old rennsport wheelstand or table clamp expect to either do some drilling or just use their metal adapter. They weigh as follows
The metal adapter comes pre-installed on the base and puts the wheel at a slight 15-20 degree angle. There are 4 female rj45 plugs along the back of the base. They are for Data, Pedal, Shifter 1, Shifter 2 respectively. The case comes with 2 male rj45 to ps/2 adapters so you can use the existing hardware with the new plugs. The CSP V2 pedals still have ps/2 plugs. I have no idea what the data port does, but I'm sure it's awesome. They have a quick release mechanism that takes a bit of strength to engage and disengage. I'll post some notes after this post that indicate that Fanatec have remedied some fitment issues people were having with the wheel quick release system. The LED shift lights work is developers or plugin writer have created the functionality for your favorite game. pCars for instance has a great shift light setup and it works perfectly. The Wheel is compatible with PC and PS3 (any game that works with the G25 should work with this wheel, essentially when in PS3 mode it mimics being a G25. You can even use Logitech drivers with the wheel)  Nitty Gritty Speed  David Tucker from iRacing wrote an application that allows you to test some technical aspects of wheels. The test you see above is called the step test. It applies a force to the wheel for a period of time, reverses the force for the same amount of time then does it all again, while tracking the position of the wheel. It allows us to figure a few things out. To interpret the graph above, the wheel that dips the lowest is the fastest. So the top 3 are The CSW with F1 rim, T500, then CSW with GT Rim.
Here's another comparison that you shouldn't take too seriously, but is indicative of the power in this wheel. I used a fish scale to approximate the torque at the outer edge of each respective wheel when FFB was sending a fully saturated signal to the wheel. This is the force necessary to hold the wheel still Mind you the GT rim is very large so the forces are appropriately lower at the outer edge with that particular rim.
So if you want to drive your CSW F1 rim with one hand... imagine having to hold a weight up in your hand that weighs 12 pounds. I work out a decent amount and do dumbbell front raises with 20-25 pounds. This wheel is strong. Now I know this isn't directly comparable AT ALL because they use a different scale and were administered by a different person who did basically the same test.
Linear Force Explanation  This test uses progressive force feedback saturation values to check and see what effect they have on the wheel. The values between wheels should not be compared. What we're interested in is any effects that are clipping(flat lines in the graph). One thing I found is that with different FFB or Force setting on the CSW the wheel actually changes how steep the force curve is. There is a drawback. Up until this latest firmware with the GT Rim only the CSW was dropping/clipping values under 25% or so saturation. With the latest firmware this was improved to about 10-15%. The graph above shows relative values from the GT Rim, F1 Rim and a Porsche Wheel Turbo S, acting as control. I asked Sean the Community manager about this and he said they were trying to eliminate some resistance around the center that pulled you out of the game and the only way to do so was clip some of the lowest FFB saturation values. I'm not a huge fan of this as we're missing out on some aspects of what the designers of a game (even if it's not realistic) intended and there is no option to avoid this behavior. If you are playing a game that is trying to mimic power steering in a car, you'll find yourself feeling like you're in an old wallowy cadillac, at least until this latest firmware. The good news is that the firmware is constantly evolving. Summary The wheel is everything I had hoped construction wise. Having used it, it would be difficult to go back to another wheel. It is expensive. However it does provide and eliminate issues people might have with mid range wheels. Mainly cogging, speed, power, accuracy, and the wonderful tuning menu that can't be overlooked. The issue then becomes one of software and customer service. Much has been said about Fanatec, and while they have given me a great opportunity to test their wheel, I cannot help but mention some downsides to dealing with a small company that is stretching to provide high end mass market niche gaming gear. Customer service can be slow, however I am the beneficiary of their customer service. They have replaced 2 shifter sets and a pedal set for me for free. If you are patient, have some spare change, and want the fastest, strongest, consumer wheel on the market, the CSW is only $880 bucks away, oh, you'll need some pedals too. Clubsport Pedals V2   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea5tTZrYY-g The Clubsport Pedals version 2 has a few small refinement and a larger price tag. There is a mechanism that provide a degressive clutch, and a shock from a large scale RC vehicle has been added to the brake. The clutch is a wonderful success. I wouldn't say it's worth the 50 bucks alone but it gives the clutch a distinct snappy feel that you might have in a modern sports car that's designed to be driven in anger. The Shock on the brake does a reasonable job of mimicking the hydraulic build up, but doesn't feel the same. It does have the benefit of smoothing the load cell brake input. I'm not sure that's worth the 50 bucks either. The one major benefit I found in the CSPv2? The pedal surfaces were polished and all the edges were rounded. This means driving barefoot or in socks for long periods of time is no longer a lesson in healing foot abrasion. I can drive barefoot!! If you have the CSP V1 you'll understand. They're beautiful, heavy, and tear at your feet a bit. The CSP v2 is however perfect in this regard. My suggestion is to try and figure out a way to get the CSP v1 with polished pedals for 50 dollars less... That's probably impossible, but well, you know. Rennsport Wheelstand V2 The new wheelstand has some updates from the old one.
Overall This is some quality stuff. If you're patient with customer service and a hobbyist with 800 bucks this is the wheel to get Questions and Requests If you want some more material, I'm more than willing to provide. Just ask. I didn't include impressions with particular games but am willing to provide feedback on any specific game. If you want me to play a PC racing game and I don't own it I will buy it just to tell you what it's like. |
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Member
(06-29-2012, 01:20 PM)
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#2
Here's a list of changes that were made to the production wheels compared to the first run of test/review wheels. Given that my serial number is in the low double digits these are all items that are different from my wheel.
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Member
(06-29-2012, 02:39 PM)
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#7
I'll continue to post updates. I had to redo most of my testing after Firmware 31 came out and redo the force and speed tests.
The speed of the wheel actually gets faster after every firmware. (they explicitly stated that they changed the max motor speed with the firmware update prior to 31.) Also I can't remember if I mentioned it in the article. There is very very little mechanical damping. I can spin the wheel freely. A solid toss and the wheel will spin 720 degrees. |
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Member
(06-29-2012, 03:27 PM)
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#10
Originally Posted by Big Takeover:
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Member
(06-29-2012, 04:26 PM)
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#16
There's a bunch more information I could give about FFB settings, Force, Damper, Etc, but so much about the firmware is in the air that I'm waiting.
One thing I can mention though is that Force is a newer setting on the wheel that works independently of FFB. It adjusts the angle of the linear force curve and any value above 100 makes the force curve steeper. You can set a value between off and 400. In some ways I wish the setting would also raise the floor of the FFB effects to make the more subtle effects stronger, but they've been actively changing it in each of the 3 firmwares we had available during testing and more are definitely to come. One other exciting note is that in the latest firmware the Separate sequential shifter is actually hitting a different button than the paddle shifters. Previously It just mirrored the paddle shifter buttons. This makes it easier to have a quick handbrake without having to drive automatic in some racing games. There are no sharp edges or problems with the stitching on either rim. I have to admit that 10 hours of full force feedback sim racing will cause some blisters. I had to take a day off from playing with the wheel to recover. The alcantara is soft, supple and smooth. The Gt rim in particular has some stiff padding beneath the alcantara. It makes me want to use the wheel in my real car. It's that comfortable.
Last edited by Yoritomo; 06-29-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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Member
(06-29-2012, 05:37 PM)
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#18
Originally Posted by drugstore_cowboy:
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Member
(06-29-2012, 09:54 PM)
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#22
Originally Posted by drugstore_cowboy:
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Member
(06-30-2012, 02:15 AM)
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#24
Originally Posted by GreggTheGrimReaper:
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Member
(06-30-2012, 10:52 AM)
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#25
Thanks, might gonna try it.
One other question: If using this for consoles only would you rather recommend the CSR Elite since it also works with the Xbox 360 or should someone go with the CSW because it might have better internal electronics and greater selection of wheels. I mainly play GT5 but having a high quality wheel for Forza 4 wouldn't hurt. |
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Member
(06-30-2012, 11:00 AM)
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#26
I think the badge can be removed, I'm sure I saw somewhere yesterday, possibly on GT Planet that a beta wheel was sent without a badge and he got sent one later to attatch.
CSRE is a great wheel btw, I wouldn't mind a better quality rim but due to it's size and weight works well on most types of cars.
Originally Posted by Yoritomo:
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Member
(06-30-2012, 01:43 PM)
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#27
Originally Posted by drugstore_cowboy:
So that's a big drawback. We'll need to pressure Fanatec for a plug with a bolt pattern and basic firmware so we can use real automotive steering wheels with the CSW. |
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Banned
(06-30-2012, 11:18 PM)
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#31
Overall, I thought this Fanatec hardware was fantastic. It added a whole new sense of realism that I haven't experienced with other wheel/pedal setups. It's as much of an improvement over the G27 as the G27 is over the DFGT. The problem is, it's four times the price of the G27, and for that reason alone, I can't recommend this to anybody but the most dedicated sim racers.
Video Review  
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Member
(06-30-2012, 11:48 PM)
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#34
Originally Posted by mclaren777:
I know you said earlier you wouldn't be selling it if you decided not to keep it (and I totally respect that), but I'm genuinely curious about whether you're keeping it. |
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Member
(07-01-2012, 01:54 AM)
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#35
Originally Posted by mclaren777:
I love you. Everytime Fanatec gives out these wheels to the community, almost all of the video reviews are shitty shaky cam or cell phone videos. I was waiting for someone with a nice camera, knowledge of lighting and camera angles to make a quality video review. You went way beyond that, beautifuly shot, major kudos man. I hope it gets the rounds on other sites and forums because this is how a video review should be done. When it comes to the CSW, I've been following it since it was announced last year and it's great to finally see it in the wild. I can't afford one yet, but I hope to own one some day, it's a beautiful piece of hardware and has so much potential with all the wheel rims that will be released for it.
Last edited by DJ88; 07-01-2012 at 01:56 AM.
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Banned
(07-01-2012, 04:01 AM)
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#37
Originally Posted by 1-D_FTW:
Originally Posted by DJ88:
Originally Posted by Para bailar La Bomba:
Originally Posted by shagg_187:
Last edited by mclaren777; 07-01-2012 at 04:14 AM.
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Banned
(07-01-2012, 02:23 PM)
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#40
Originally Posted by Para bailar La Bomba:
Edit: here are some questions I answered on the ISI forums...
Originally Posted by Jameswesty:
2. I don't think it massively improved rF2, though it did allow me to focus solely on my driving. The horrible curb rattle in my G27 causes me to intentionally not use all of the road because I hate how it sounds/feels. With the Fanatec hardware, I was able to just drive without worrying about such things. 3. Yes. NKP felt better than I've ever experienced. Those two clips near the end of the review (7:44-8:28) are 1/2 of one lap of Crema with both the CSW and the G27. It was much easier to catch slides with the quicker CSW and the braking experience was significantly better with the Fanatec pedals. NKP was the biggest improvement of any game I played during this test. Everything just felt perfect. 4. It fluctuates game to game. I spend most of my time in rF2 and my lap times didn't improve with the CSW even given the added "carelessness" of being able to use the curbs. Same goes for RBR – no meaningful improvement. But NKP definitely felt better and I'm sure this hardware allowed me to shave 0.5 seconds from my quickest G27 laps.
Last edited by mclaren777; 07-01-2012 at 03:36 PM.
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Member
(07-02-2012, 02:20 PM)
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#45
Originally Posted by mclaren777:
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Member
(07-02-2012, 03:18 PM)
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#46
Originally Posted by Truespeed:
I haven't done a time comparison. But the fanatec has another big thing going for it. The wheel position is calculated at a hub connected directly to the wheel. On other consumer wheels the wheel position is calculated at the end of the FFB motor shaft. You have more direct control with the CSW than pretty much any other wheel. One other item to note is that there's also about 16 ms from FFB instruction from the computer to first movement that can be read by the position sensor in the wheel. The G27 has about a 10 ms delay but has it's sensor directly on the motor. Dunno if any of the additional time to first move is due to where the sensor is but it's a possibility |
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MrArseFace
(07-02-2012, 03:20 PM)
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#47
Originally Posted by Truespeed:
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Member
(07-02-2012, 03:22 PM)
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#48
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Member
(07-02-2012, 04:17 PM)
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#50
Originally Posted by mrklaw:
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