[Kai Dracon]

Saying suicide is for cowards and just feeling scorn for people who commit it is in its own way, cowardly thinking. It's offloading your aggravation or anger at the person who was in pain and blaming your feelings on them - ironic. But it's deeply ingrained in culture to 'blame the victim' when it comes to suicide or attempted suicide.

But the thing is, all suicide is not equal.

What some people do, does fit the simple stereotype: attempts to get attention. While usually (but not always) younger people who do this, they don't really understand what they're doing and while emotionally unbalanced, really just want to get attention. Often they want it for petty, selfish reasons.

Then there's suicide among people who have been legitimately broken and are in ultimate suffering. Here, suicide is more of a misfire of the survival instinct and should be understood as such. Survival and escaping pain will push a person (or any animal) to harm themselves for the greater good - break a limb, chew off a foot. When cornered with no other way out and no way to stop paralyzing psychological anguish, suicide is 'logical' because it's the only immediate way to stop the pain.

People don't seem to stop and consider that even attempting suicide means one is overriding a tremendous set of survival instincts that prevent self-harm. That alone should give you pause to stop and consider what is really going on, rather than saying "feh, coward" and feeling superior to a person who is in a bad place and suffering. I suppose also, there's a bit of sour grapes in such attitudes. A "if I can't get out of this shitty life, they shouldn't be able to either" thing.

[GotEmRunnin]

OP I hope your brother pulls through. I'm confident he will. You have a lot of emotions when a love one goes through a tragedy. A few years ago one of my close cousins died from drink driving. I was sad for a while, angry at him for a while, depressed, etc,. You go through a lot because even though death is a part of life some people you just aren't prepared to see leave or even close to leaving.

Don't be angry at your brother you don't know what he was thinking at the time. Just be prepared to be there for him and your mother regardless of what put you all in this situation.

[captainnapalm]

Your ignorance on the matter is staggering, I actually find it offensive. I've nothing more to say on this other than apologise to Seth C for slightly hijacking your topic but when I see someone talk about suicide in this manner I find it hard to let go because of past experience. Seth, I know you're angry and trying to make sense of why he would do such an act, but please don't hold it against him and it's important to give him your sympathy and understand why he would do something this. I hope he pulls through and gets the help he needs.

You're not the only with life experience and views on these issues, PedroPanache. I've been living in the same world you have. And I've dealt with the same issues.

And do you know what's ten times harder than killing yourself? Getting honest about what's wrong with you and what you've done wrong and choosing a better path. And doing it day after day after day after day. It's easier to just go 'I want out, shit's too hard'. Suicide, as they say, is painless.

[Log4Girlz]

You're not the only with life experience and views on these issues, PedroPanache. I've been living in the same world you have. And I've dealt with the same issues. And do you know what's ten times harder than killing yourself? Getting honest about what's wrong with you and what you've done wrong and choosing a better path. And doing it day after day after day after day. It's easier to just go 'I want out, shit's too hard'. Suicide, as they say, is painless.

Yes, suicide is so easy. What an easy decision. Shit, people think about doing it all the time as opposed to working out their problems! What a truly backwards way of seeing things.

[captainnapalm]

Yes, suicide is so easy. What an easy decision. Shit, people think about doing it all the time as opposed to working out their problems! What a truly backwards way of seeing things.

It's easier than working on yourself. Really working on yourself. That's painful and takes a long time. No instant gratification there.

[Steelrain]

Maybe you should start a new thread Seth C. This one won't be about you.

[smurfx]

It's easier than working on yourself. Really working on yourself. That's painful and takes a long time. No instant gratification there.

how do you even begin working on yourself in many cases? most people don't know where to go and sometimes they don't know if they can even pay for help. then you have the people around them. many people aren't very sympathetic if you tell them you are suffering depression and will just tell you to man up and stop complaining and then you are back at zero.

[Crunched]

You're not the only with life experience and views on these issues, PedroPanache. I've been living in the same world you have. And I've dealt with the same issues. And do you know what's ten times harder than killing yourself? Getting honest about what's wrong with you and what you've done wrong and choosing a better path. And doing it day after day after day after day. It's easier to just go 'I want out, shit's too hard'. Suicide, as they say, is painless.

What an embarrassing post.

[sangreal]

I've dealt with my sister's clinical depression and attempted overdoses to know how you feel, op. Hang in there.

Seth, I just wanted to wish you luck dealing with such a horrible situation. Hang in there, man. FnordChan

I hope he gets better.Just hang in there and be strong for your family.

...really?

(I know these were sincere, but talk about a poor choice of words)

[Log4Girlz]

It's easier than working on yourself. Really working on yourself. That's painful and takes a long time. No instant gratification there.

That's why we have millions and millions of suicides in the US every year. Contemplating suicide and going through with it really is the easiest, most natural decision one can make when facing adversity.

...really?

Man I really avoided the word hang, didn't realize others didn't. I don't think they meant it as a joke, but still...

[Sidzed2]

You're not the only with life experience and views on these issues, PedroPanache. I've been living in the same world you have. And I've dealt with the same issues. And do you know what's ten times harder than killing yourself? Getting honest about what's wrong with you and what you've done wrong and choosing a better path. And doing it day after day after day after day. It's easier to just go 'I want out, shit's too hard'. Suicide, as they say, is painless.

Your ignorance astounds me.

[slit]

I had someone in my family do the same thing, OP. Only they actually died.

I'm so sorry, I know the conflicted emotion you're going through.

It's going to be a rough road but I wish you well.

[Marleyman]

My close friend took his life a year ago the same way.

[captainnapalm]

how do you even begin working on yourself in many cases? most people don't know where to go and sometimes they don't know if they can even pay for help. then you have the people around them. many people aren't very sympathetic if you tell them you are suffering depression and will just tell you to man up and stop complaining and then you are back at zero.

I mentioned that in my first post. Stop obsessing about your own problems and do things for other people, concern yourself with other people. Literally occupy your mind with thoughts other than about yourself. It's a paradox, but it happens to work because it is built upon a watertight spiritual principal. We struggle with this paradox because we are mired in a 'me,me,me culture that celebrates being selfish and individualistic and sees it as a good and necessary thing.

Anyway, I'm getting mired in a shitfight, and that's not fair to the OP. I'll quit now, and just wish him all the best. I don't think he should go up and be angry or nasty towards his brother or even tell him he's self-absorbed. That's not my point.

[Gattsu25]

Holy shit.

I hope that your brother pulls through and is able to discuss his feelings with his family and you.

It sounds like your family is taking this pretty hard so I recommend trying to console them, if you think you are able. Spend time with your mother, in particular. Sounds like she was hit pretty hard.

Also, make sure that you spend some time with your brother. I really do wish you and your family the best.

[Reuenthal]

I am sorry for this and I wish you the best.

[computers putin']

Stunning lack of empathy here, and I'm not just talking peoples opinions. This thread is about Seth C and his brother, it's not a debate about anything nor should it be, the guy needs some consoling right now and we should offer a bit. I hope you pull through Seth, I can't imagine what you're going through right now.

[Alligatorjandro]

...really? (I know these were sincere, but talk about a poor choice of words)

I didnt even realize,damn.

[PedroPanache]

You're not the only with life experience and views on these issues, PedroPanache. I've been living in the same world you have. And I've dealt with the same issues. And do you know what's ten times harder than killing yourself? Getting honest about what's wrong with you and what you've done wrong and choosing a better path. And doing it day after day after day after day. It's easier to just go 'I want out, shit's too hard'. Suicide, as they say, is painless.

I really don't think you've dealt with the same issues by virtue of the fact we happen to live on the same planet. It's not quite as simple as "getting honest about what's wrong with you and choosing a better path" either. That's an incredibly black and white viewpoint that's entirely dismissive of the many nuances of the issue.

[YoungHav]

Seth C sorry to hear this, I hope your brother pulls through.

[Keru_Shiri]

That's terrible to hear. :( I hope your brother can make a full recovery, and that you and your mother can maintain the strength needed for this.

[numble]

That's why we have millions and millions of suicides in the US every year.

Not millions and millions. Not even half a million attempts.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...ml/index.shtml

[WanderingWind]

Christ, some of you would start a argument over a car wreck before helping out the victims. Put aside your egos and need to be the smartest motherfucker on the internet for two seconds or take this bullshit arguing to another thread.

Seth, man, I'm sorry you and yours are going through this right now. But if you can, go talk to a professional about this one. If your brother pulls though (or god forbid he does) you're going to have a fuckton of issues. Talking about it now may save you a lot of heartache in the long run.

[phosphor112]

Its easy to say that, but if someone is in a position where they feel like there life is irreparable and not worth living, they are hardly doing it out of spite or whatever. That being said, some people make attempts for attention, but I don't think that is the case hear.

Being as someone who has fought severe depression, I can say, it is very real, but it is a dick move. It's very selfish. It's hard for people to not think about that, and even though I did (realize it was selfish), I hated myself more for being selfish. It's quite the conundrum. Depression surrounds you at all angles.

Hope everything works out OP.

[-COOLIO-]

Christ, some of you would start a argument over a car wreck before helping out the victims. Put aside your egos and need to be the smartest motherfucker on the internet for two seconds or take this bullshit arguing to another thread. Seth, man, I'm sorry you and yours are going through this right now. But if you can, go talk to a professional about this one. If your brother pulls though (or god forbid he does) you're going to have a fuckton of issues. Talking about it now may save you a lot of heartache in the long run.

well said

[nemss]

I had an uncle and a grandfather both commit suicide. And both were on my father's side. I was angry, for a long, long time. Seeing my dad have to suffer both acts of selfishness, not having anywhere to put the anger.

My dad sat me down one day and told me to let it go. He says he'll never understand why they did it, but that's not his choice. His choice is to enjoy his own life, with his children and family, and its not worth all this anger. They made their choice.

Sorry to hear about your brother OP. Just remember that he clearly needs help, and he could have a second chance at life here. The last thing he's going to need is anger, as I'm sure he'll have enough self anger to deal with. It might be worth your time to go talk to someone.

[Seth C]

My mother was just admitted to the ER. She was about to pass out. She is convulsing.

[phosphor112]

Hmm, 30 years old? Sounds like a build up of problems.
30 years old with only a gf can show all sorts of problems career wise, relationship wise... it can easily take a toll on someone.

My mother was just admitted to the ER. She was about to pass out. She is convulsing.

=[

[Steelrain]

Shit man. My heart goes out to you and yours.

[PedroPanache]

Christ, some of you would start a argument over a car wreck before helping out the victims. Put aside your egos and need to be the smartest motherfucker on the internet for two seconds or take this bullshit arguing to another thread. Seth, man, I'm sorry you and yours are going through this right now. But if you can, go talk to a professional about this one. If your brother pulls though (or god forbid he does) you're going to have a fuckton of issues. Talking about it now may save you a lot of heartache in the long run.

You're right, I'm sorry for my part in an argument that belongs in another thread. Sorry, Seth and I hope your mother is ok too.

[Kinyou]

Being as someone who has fought severe depression, I can say, it is very real, but it is a dick move. It's very selfish. It's hard for people to not think about that, and even though I did (realize it was selfish), I hated myself more for being selfish. It's quite the conundrum. Depression surrounds you at all angles. Hope everything works out OP.

I had it the other way around. I felt like I was a burden to everyone around me. If I were gone, everyone close to me would have it better. In my depression I almost thought it would be selfish to stay alive...

[Deliverance]

Not millions and millions. Not even half a million attempts. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...ml/index.shtml

That was the point. He was being ironic.

[Fantasmo]

Saying suicide is for cowards and just feeling scorn for people who commit it is in its own way, cowardly thinking. It's offloading your aggravation or anger at the person who was in pain and blaming your feelings on them - ironic. But it's deeply ingrained in culture to 'blame the victim' when it comes to suicide or attempted suicide. But the thing is, all suicide is not equal. What some people do, does fit the simple stereotype: attempts to get attention. While usually (but not always) younger people who do this, they don't really understand what they're doing and while emotionally unbalanced, really just want to get attention. Often they want it for petty, selfish reasons. Then there's suicide among people who have been legitimately broken and are in ultimate suffering. Here, suicide is more of a misfire of the survival instinct and should be understood as such. Survival and escaping pain will push a person (or any animal) to harm themselves for the greater good - break a limb, chew off a foot. When cornered with no other way out and no way to stop paralyzing psychological anguish, suicide is 'logical' because it's the only immediate way to stop the pain. People don't seem to stop and consider that even attempting suicide means one is overriding a tremendous set of survival instincts that prevent self-harm. That alone should give you pause to stop and consider what is really going on, rather than saying "feh, coward" and feeling superior to a person who is in a bad place and suffering. I suppose also, there's a bit of sour grapes in such attitudes. A "if I can't get out of this shitty life, they shouldn't be able to either" thing.

Thanks for this.

Sorry about your brother OP, hope he pulls through

[Double D]

My mother was just admitted to the ER. She was about to pass out. She is convulsing.

Shit. Best of luck to you. Regardless of the outcome you're gonna have a lot on your plate for quite a bit. Just be strong and don't let your (angry) emotions get the best of you. No matter how you feel about your brother's actions, you need to be there for the rest of your family.

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

30 years old with only a gf can show all sorts of problems career wise, relationship wise... it can easily take a toll on someone.

Haha, what?

Anyway, I hope your brother pulls through.

[phosphor112]

I had it the other way around. I felt like I was a burden to everyone around me. If I were gone, everyone close to me would have it better. In my depression I almost thought it would be selfish to stay alive...

I didn't feel like a burden to anyone. I felt that no one cared for me. But every once in a while, my senses would come to me and I'd wonder "would people really care?" And yeah... they would...

Haha, what? Anyway, I hope your brother pulls through.

Whats so funny? By the time I was 21, I was severely depressed... I wanted to get married... but couldn't afford it. In school with apathy severally setting in.

As I said, I was 21... My brother is 28 right now, he works full time but he's having trouble with the lack of a partner. He almost got married once before, since then, he hasn't gotten up from that wipeout. It can be hard. A lot of people emotionally require a definite sense of direction at that age.

[CrankyJay]

Suicide is a coward's move, yes.

Statements like this piss me off. Mental health is an entire realm of shit hardly anyone understands, so to dismiss someone as a coward for trying to kill themselves without fully knowing what is going on in someone's mind is being an asshole of the highest magnitude.

[demon]

I'm very sorry to hear that. I really hope he pulls through, and your mom. You can take comfort however in the fact that you have mental health expert captainnapalm here to help you through this troubling time.

[Eschaton]

best of luck Seth, sorry that people in here seem bent on turning it into a debate.

I would advise you to go get some professional help as soon as you can.

[Raguel]

Damn Seth. And now your mother.... =( No one should go through what your family is going through. Try and be strong for them. It will be heartbreakingly hard. But don't be afraid of being angry or sad. Or even crying. Those are natural emotions. But carry those emotions with strength and love. I know you're mad at your brother. Furious even. I know you may think its a cowardly thing to do and it may be. But what matters right now is that he is still alive. Focus on that. And when he gets better, talk to him with love and not anger. He is lost just as much as you are, if not more so. I hope your mother and brother pulls through. =(

[LukasTaves]

Wow, that's really horrible.

Hope your brother manages to come out of this, and that you and your family can bring some joy so him won't try that again.

[The Technomancer]

I'm saying you would have to be insane not to realise that people would not be better off if you kill yourself. It's an utterly absurd notion to think that people would be better off. Suicide concerns death and violence, we all know at our core these are not good things for others to experience. It would require complete derangement to suddenly not be aware of this. I think what is more accurate is that people still realise this, but can no longer bring themselves to care.

I knew a girl who truly, honest to god believed that all of her friends and family would be happier if she wasn't around to keep ruining their lives. She tried to kill herself like four times, I think she's healthier now though.

[CrankyJay]

Mom's truly do live for their children. No parent should ever have to see their child suffer. =(

[Mully]

I mentioned that in my first post. Stop obsessing about your own problems and do things for other people, concern yourself with other people. Literally occupy your mind with thoughts other than about yourself. It's a paradox, but it happens to work because it is built upon a watertight spiritual principal. We struggle with this paradox because we are mired in a 'me,me,me culture that celebrates being selfish and individualistic and sees it as a good and necessary thing. Anyway, I'm getting mired in a shitfight, and that's not fair to the OP. I'll quit now, and just wish him all the best. I don't think he should go up and be angry or nasty towards his brother or even tell him he's self-absorbed. That's not my point.

No offense, but you or another poster wrote something similar in a thread I made a few months back. The thing is, a lot of depressed people consume their life with thoughts of if they will be accepted by everyone else. These people will do anything to gain acceptance from others and constantly do things for other people.

This solution can work, but its not the end all-be-all solution. If you really want to work on yourself, you need to find what puts everything into focus. That could mean helping a neighbor out or going to counseling.

[hwalker84]

Sometimes the off topic board is so damn depressing. So sorry to hear this OP.

[DarkKyo]

Feel really awkward for the girlfriend.

That's really dumb. In no way is that her fault. People should be able to break up without fear of the other party trying to kill themselves.

[Nintendo Ate My Children]

Whats so funny? By the time I was 21, I was severely depressed... I wanted to get married... but couldn't afford it. In school with apathy severally setting in. As I said, I was 21... My brother is 28 right now, he works full time but he's having trouble with the lack of a partner. He almost got married once before, since then, he hasn't gotten up from that wipeout. It can be hard. A lot of people emotionally require a definite sense of direction at that age.

You made it sound like not being married at 30 is some sort of horrible disaster. And a definite sense of direction doesn't really have anything to do with being married. Plenty of people aren't married and have a definite sense of direction, and plenty of people who are married don't.

Maybe it's a cultural or religious thing. I guess it's different if you're Mormon or something.

[Dark Octave]

I understand how OP feels. You love your family on one hand, but then how could he do what he did on the other. Your life isn't yours alone and you hurt your loved ones way more than you could ever hurt yourself. Hope he pulls through, recovers and gets help.

[phosphor112]

You made it sound like not being married at 30 is some sort of horrible disaster. And a definite sense of direction doesn't really have anything to do with being married. Plenty of people aren't married and have a definite sense of direction, and plenty of people who are married don't. Maybe it's a cultural or religious thing. I guess it's different if you're Mormon or something.

Well yeah, marriage isn't needed, but I mean.. In my and my brother's case, we both wanted marriage. That was only part of it of course.

[TheRagnCajun]

My mother was just admitted to the ER. She was about to pass out. She is convulsing.

Wow. Hopefully just a mild case of shock? I would probably pass out too.