[pje122]

What an embarrassing post.

For who?

[hateful]

Stay strong. My heart goes out to you and your family.

[truly101]

I can understand the anger people have towards suicide, but theres an aspect of derision and self-rightneous insensitivity towards it that rubs me the wrong way.
I understand that we also have the tendancy to romanticize suicide as well (Kurt Cobain eg) but I think you have to realize is that despair is a scary thing and it can make people not see a way out. It sounds dumb to us for someone to attempt suicide because of a girl, objectively it is, but we're not in that person's mindset. We don't know if he felt the happiest with her and going on without her or having her no longer care was too much to bear.

[Seth C]

Wow. Hopefully just a mild case of shock? I would probably pass out too.

I think so. She is being monitored in the ER, so I'm with her now. If anything changes with my brother they will call me.

[Davidion]

Of course we can't have a thread like this with the moronic suicide=cowardice brigade out in force.

I'm sorry to hear OP, I understand why you're feeling the way you do, and and hope your family pulls through all of this.

[WeAreStarStuff]

Damn I'm sorry to hear this. I don't even know what to say; wishing the best for everyone involved.

[shorty_symd]

I'm sorry to hear that :( hope he gets well soon.

[truly101]

I think so. She is being monitored in the ER, so I'm with her now. If anything changes with my brother they will call me.

I don't think anyone can really understand how awful this is for a parent. I don't know what to say but you are going to have to be super strong for her and it won't be easy.

[Neuromancer]

I'm very sorry to hear that. Hope he pulls through.

[JGS]

“The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.” ― David Foster Wallace, committed suicide in 2008

I absolutely detest sentiments like this because there is no comparison to jumping from a building to avoid dying in a fire. It's not picking the best way to die quiclky because time is always on a suicidals side unless they are terminal.

The person committing suicide because of the unendurable feeling they have, however, is incorrect. There is plenty of time to get help to avoid the suicide. It's not at all the same situation. If you have friends, family, access to healthcare, you can beat suicide and it does a disservice to depressed people to suggest suicide is in any way a rational solution to their problem.

[Seth C]

I don't think anyone can really understand how awful this is for a parent. I don't know what to say but you are going to have to be super strong for her and it won't be easy.

The best I can hope for right now is to get good news from the neurosurgeons. They won't know anything certain yet, or for days, but I'd like to hear that they don't see obvious brain damage. It would help her.

[Juancho9]

My sister tried killing herself. Suffered from PTSD for years...I feel sorry for your loss OP, you should seek a therapist.

[The Technomancer]

I absolutely detest sentiments like this because there is no comparison to jumping from a building to avoid dying in a fire. It's not picking the best way to die quiclky because time is always on a suicidals side unless they are terminal. The person committing suicide because of the unendurable feeling they have, however, is incorrect. There is plenty of time to get help to avoid the suicide. It's not at all the same situation. If you have friends, family, access to healthcare, you can beat suicide and it does a disservice to depressed people to suggest suicide is in any way a rational solution to their problem.

Did you miss the point of the quote? Reality is meaningless in this situation, its all about the suicidal person's perception

[Eschaton]

Why are you guys doing your debate thing, take that fuckery elsewhere.

[JGS]

Did you miss the point of the quote? Reality is meaningless in this situation, its all about the suicidal person's perception

I didn't miss the point at all. The perception is incorrect. It does not help the individual to understand the perception when the perception is misguided and irrational.

That's not to say that it can be stopped, but putting in understandable terms that don't apply is misguided. A person should not commit suicide due to depression - period.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I absolutely detest sentiments like this because there is no comparison to jumping from a building to avoid dying in a fire. It's not picking the best way to die quiclky because time is always on a suicidals side unless they are terminal. The person committing suicide because of the unendurable feeling they have, however, is incorrect. There is plenty of time to get help to avoid the suicide. It's not at all the same situation. If you have friends, family, access to healthcare, you can beat suicide and it does a disservice to depressed people to suggest suicide is in any way a rational solution to their problem.

You're the bystander on the street, not the person facing the flames.

[JGS]

Why are you guys doing your debate thing, take that fuckery elsewhere.

The quote is germaine to the discussion.

The family's understandable reaction is is the result of the brother's wrong action. It's not a reflection on his mental health or possible cowardice but on the notion that OP's brother should not have tried to commit suicide to begin with and no eloquent quote is going to change that.

You're the bystander on the street, not the person facing the flames.

Again, has nothing to so with the suicide victim being flat out wrong and the family being right for not wanting him to commit suicide.

[TheKaeptain]

Yo, some people need to get the fuck off of this debating bullshit. this isn't the thread. Sorry to hear about this Seth.

[The Technomancer]

I didn't miss the point at all. The perception is incorrect. It does not help the individual to understand the perception when the perception is misguided and irrational. That's not to say that it can be stopped, but putting in understandable terms that don't apply is misguided. A person should not commit suicide due to depression - period.

Its all well and good to say what people "should" do and to describe them as irrational, but is the sentiment behind that "therefore we should try and help them and stop them" or "therefore committing suicide is a sign of weakness and those who do so don't deserve sympathy for their irrational behavior"?

[TheNatural]

Good luck to your family, hopefully your brother makes it ok.

[Eschaton]

The quote is germaine to the discussion. The family's understandable reaction is is the result of the brother's wrong action. It's not a reflection on his mental health or possible cowardice but on the notion that OP's brother should not have tried to commit suicide to begin with and no eloquent quote is going to change that.

Back and forths on the ethical validity of something like this in this situation is germaine to being a douchebag.

[Westraid]

I am so very sorry to hear what happened to your family and you.
Please take good care of yourself, so you can be there for your family.
It's the one thing you can do, for yourself, and for them, however difficult it might be.

[Sho_Nuff82]

I don't understand the "anger" response. If anything, I would be empathetic. It takes a lot of pain to want to take your own life, the last thing I would think of is, "wow, what an ass, he still owed me a beer from the last time we went out and I still need a doubles partner for tennis next week. Plus he made everyone else sad."

To the OP, I hope your brother recovers, and I hope you can get him the help that he needs.

[manipulate]

Hope you're holding up ok OP. Can't imagine what you're going through right now, my thoughts are with you.

[Snakeyes]

Sorry to hear that OP, best wishes to you and your family.

[Lost Fragment]

The quote is germaine to the discussion. The family's understandable reaction is is the result of the brother's wrong action. It's not a reflection on his mental health or possible cowardice but on the notion that OP's brother should not have tried to commit suicide to begin with and no eloquent quote is going to change that.Again, has nothing to so with the suicide victim being flat out wrong and the family being right for not wanting him to commit suicide.

There isn't a person here saying that suicide is the right thing to do in this situation.

Either way, I feel like it's in poor taste to tell the OP how he should or shouldn't feel immediately after his brother tries to off himself.

[Altazor]

damn man, really hard situation for you and your family. Hopefully your brother and your mom will pull through.

Best wishes!

[Dunlop]

Its all well and good to say what people "should" do and to describe them as irrational, but is the sentiment behind that "therefore we should try and help them and stop them" or "therefore committing suicide is a sign of weakness and those who do so don't deserve sympathy for their irrational behavior"?

You realize that the OP is going through this shit right now? This is not a college debate on the merits of mental health or suicide as nobody has a fucking clue if any of this applies to this situation.

This is a perfectly valid topic on it's own so why doesn't someone just create it and stop derailing this one?

[Seth C]

I don't understand the "anger" response. If anything, I would be empathetic. It takes a lot of pain to want to take your own life, the last thing I would think of is, "wow, what an ass, he still owed me a beer from the last time we went out and I still need a doubles partner for tennis next week. Plus he made everyone else sad." To the OP, I hope your brother recovers, and I hope you can get him the help that he needs.

It's hard to explain. You feel lots of emotions. Anger or frustration is part of it. Again, not for myself, but the action he took has caused my mother to be admitted to the ER. It's not any sadness or frustration he caused me. I just want him to get better. But he hurt many people I love. When someone intentionally does something that hurts your loved ones, it is difficult not to feel upset over that. It is part of being empathetic for them. It may not be entirely rational, and obviously my primary concern is his health, but it happens. I am incredibly sympathetic to the suffering he must have been going through. I wish I could help but right now I can't. I'm overwhelmed trying to help those impacted by his actions. I'm seeing them crying, convulsing, passing out, being treated in the ER. My mother is in her 60s, and already disabled. She isn't really physically or mentally capable of handling this, and just ten days ago she was worried my sister was dying when she was hospitalized because she lost control of her body and verbal function due to a previously undisguised brain malformation.

It is also part of coping. Anger as an emotion is probably an easier outlet than breaking down in sorrow. Right now I just want him to be okay so I can hug him and hear my only brother talk to me again.

[TheRagnCajun]

The best I can hope for right now is to get good news from the neurosurgeons. They won't know anything certain yet, or for days, but I'd like to hear that they don't see obvious brain damage. It would help her.

That will be a long few days. I don't have a lot of advice, but, if you have someone you can talk to, call them up. You need someone you can lean against.

[SquiddyCracker]

I'm hoping he'll be able to wake out of this coma, you never know.

[Aizu_Itsuko]

Its easy to say that, but if someone is in a position where they feel like there life is irreparable and not worth living, they are hardly doing it out of spite or whatever. That being said, some people make attempts for attention, but I don't think that is the case hear.

Yes, this whole issue makes people feel uneasy and they just don't want to put too much thought into it.


It doesn't seem like the OP's brother is in the position you describe though. It seems like he just couldn't cope with the emotional stress for some reason.

OP, the good news is that that stress is just temporary and with professional help your brother will learn how to cope with this and other issues much better. This may even reveal an underlying problem and that may help your brother and your family in the end.

You are going to need professional help to understand all this situation due to its nature and your lack of familiarity with it, hopefully someone who knows the details about your brother's case.

Just remember your brother isn't any different today, he is the exact same person you have known your whole life. He just had a problem he was unable to solve. Help him reconcile what happened and show him that his family just wants to help him live a good life. Have a natural approach to all this, showing him that your relationship hasn't changed at all, don't be afraid to talk and he will be back on his feet in no time. As I said, this could actually strengthen your relationship and help solve some problems.

You are angry because you care about him. That's good.

Best wishes OP.

[AlteredBeast]

Im back in the hospital. It's not been a good two weeks. My sister woke me up at 5am. Apparently he and his girlfriend had a fight, she left, and when she came back he was unconscious hanging from a noose. He is in a coma on a breathing machine. I don't even know what to think. I'm sad and want to see my brother, but also unsympathetic. His family loves him. We would give him any help he needs. I just don't know.

Damn, Seth. I was just thinking about you in a "old-school GAFFER" sense. I feel terrible for you man. Stuff like this is so emotionally draining due to all the implications involved. Stay strong brother.

[JGS]

There isn't a person here saying that suicide is the right thing to do in this situation. Either way, I feel like it's in poor taste to tell the OP how he should or shouldn't feel immediately after his brother tries to off himself.

I'm not saying that which is why I disagree with the quote and I agree that it's in poor taste to discuss in insulting terms the nature of suicide. However, I think in regards to the quote, it helps us to understand that the quote does nothing to help the family going through this.

I'm getting watery eyes from what the mother is going through because of the wrong decision of the brother and that should be something very acceptable to discuss- the damage the brother caused to the family to make them face something they weren't prepared to even if the brother was.

The family didn't do anything wrong, of course, and yet they now have the responsibility thrust upon them to let the brother know even more how much he is loved and cared for and the unjustified guilt of thinking they could have done something to avoid it. It doesn't help to have a quote that pretends to justify the wrong action that obviously affects more than it does him to begin with.

[Gordon Shumway]

Hey Seth..good luck to you and your family. Had a suicide in my family some years ago, tough thing to go through. Hope the news is good for your brother sooner than later and your mom feels better.

Guys, seriously, debate this shit in another thread..let this man fell the way he feels. Geezuz..

[echoshifting]

Ah, geez. So sorry, Seth. I'm not sure what else to say.

[Seth C]

Damn, Seth. I was just thinking about you in a "old-school GAFFER" sense. I feel terrible for you man. Stuff like this is so emotionally draining due to all the implications involved. Stay strong brother.

Beyond that, my man. Old school Dimension-S I believe.

[The Technomancer]

You realize that the OP is going through this shit right now? This is not a college debate on the merits of mental health or suicide as nobody has a fucking clue if any of this applies to this situation. This is a perfectly valid topic on it's own so why doesn't someone just create it and stop derailing this one?

I'm out

[Dynopia]

Hope he pulls through. That said it's his choice and his body/life. It's incredibly selfish for friends and family to expect someone to continue living if they're suffering that much, because of your own beleifs and feelings, incredibly so.

That also said, I'm betting the majority of the time a failed suicide attempt could lead to the person getting their life back on track if they get the right help, I'm sure you and your family will be as supportive as you can when he hopefully wakes up.

[AlteredBeast]

Beyond that, my man. Old school Dimension-S I believe.

LOL. Yeah, and Blast City and all that nonsense :P

[Seth C]

LOL. Yeah, and Blast City and all that nonsense :P

Oh no. No Blast City for me. Sega's official chat, then Dimension-S, DC Tech Pages, then here!

[AlteredBeast]

Oh no. No Blast City for me. Sega's official chat, then Dimension-S, DC Tech Pages, then here!

Oh yeah, you never came to the dark side of Blast City like Saturnman and so many other lost souls :P. I remember one time I got banned off of DC Tech Pages after asking a very innocuous question. The good old days of messageboards with overenthusiastic mods...then Amir0x got demodded. :P

[Zee-Row]

I'm sorry to hear about this , I lost my Mom a week ago and I feel what your family is going through.

[FStop7]

Yes. I love him, but I'm angry at him. It wasn't an accident. If it were I wouldn't have these conflicted emotions. He did one of the most selfish things a person can do. My mother is a disaster. He may end up brain damaged. All because he had a fight with his girlfriend of several months? He isn't a child. He is a 30 year old man.

I understand your reaction but the thing is he's sick, dude. I hope things work out.

Some of the posts in this thread are unbelievable, though. I shouldn't be surprised.

[CornBurrito]

suicide is a dick move.

And this post shows that you do not understand suicide at all, and cannot put yourself in a suicidal person's shoes.

[espresso]

My condolences to your family.

[Mariolee]

So, ignoring all of the douchebaggary that seems to be rampant currently, I'm really sorry for what's happened man. Hopefully he pulls out OK, I can't imagine the kind of pain you're going through.

[Pkm]

My father killed himself when I was 14...no reasons or notes left..
The question why still haunts me too this day. All those years of anger and resentment are gone but the questions just wont go away.

I feel your pain man, especially when it comes to brothers.
Mine is 26 and has had a pain-killer and alcohol addiction for the last 5 years. His body is a sickly mess with most his teeth rotted out. I feel like I might lose him any day and I'm just lost on things I can do to help him since he wont put forth the slightest bit of effort to help himself.

[Prologue]

"How dare you kill yourself ! Now I'm sad ! You selfish dick !"

Hope he pulls through. That said it's his choice and his body/life. It's incredibly selfish for friends and family to expect someone to continue living if they're suffering that much, because of your own beleifs and feelings, incredibly so. That also said, I'm betting the majority of the time a failed suicide attempt could lead to the person getting their life back on track if they get the right help, I'm sure you and your family will be as supportive as you can when he hopefully wakes up.

But you also can't ignore that once you come into this world, you have responsibilities not only to your self, but to your loved ones. I had a family friend that took her life. Now I only see her younger brother walk the dog instead of both of them doing it together. I no longer see her with their parents on their daily walks. You don't think they feel incredibly guilty and sad? Depression is something I hope I never have to experience or understand. But you have responsibilities to loved ones once you start associating yourself with them Even our fellow gaf member admitted how selfish and guilty he felt after a failed attempt.

[Vyer]

Really sorry to hear Seth. All you can do is be there for your mom, it's so difficult for a parent to deal with the suffering of their children. Sincere wishes that things improve for you guys.