[Sadsic]

this topic and all topics on the internet about fat people really bother me... why is it okay to hate/be disgusted by fat people but not to hate/be disgusted by dark skinned people/interracial marriage/homosexuals/etc...

Just because being fat can possibly be a choice does not make it okay to look down on/be disgusted by/hate people who cant control their weight. There are reasons outside of that person and the viewer's judgment that make the person fat, and it's wrong to judge someone before you know them. It's not a sin to be fat or any other choice that someone made that you dont like.

I like ponies and i am like 40 lbs overweight and i am bisexual and jewish and all kinds of shit i get crap for on a daily basis and i dont think any of it is my "fault", nor is it anyone elses "fault" for the choices they made.

No one is omnipotent and this is all perspective.

[davepoobond]

this topic and all topics on the internet about fat people really bother me... why is it okay to hate/be disgusted by fat people but not to hate/be disgusted by dark skinned people/interracial marriage/homosexuals/etc... Just because being fat can possibly be a choice does not make it okay to look down on/be disgusted by/hate people who cant control their weight. There are reasons outside of that person and the viewer's judgment that make the person fat, and it's wrong to judge someone before you know them. It's not a sin to be fat or any other choice that someone made that you dont like. I like ponies and i am like 40 lbs overweight and i am bisexual and jewish and all kinds of shit i get crap for on a daily basis and i dont think any of it is my "fault", nor is it anyone elses "fault" for the choices they made. No one is omnipotent and this is all perspective.

but aren't they all things you could change? you could become a christian, you could lose weight, and you could only do guys or you could only do girls. and you can start mass murdering ponies instead of liking them.

so all of it your fault then!

land of the free, indeed! free to be fat or be what you are!

[TheExodu5]

I have no idea how to pan fry and tend to shy away from frying anything since I would probably burn down my house.

There are plenty of videos out there, but to start you out:

Get a good cast iron or carbon steel pan...a heavy bottom stainless can work as well though it's a bit harder to use. Let it heat up over medium heat. You want it as hot as you can get it without the olive oil smoking, or just barely smoking at the very most. Put in your chicken (breast, thigh, whatever) and let it cook about 60% of the way through. Turn if over and let it cook for the other 40% (shouldn't take as long as the first side). It doesn't matter if your olive oil is extra virgin or not...the solids will burn away and you won't taste the olive oil.

The only hard part is finding the right temperature to set your stove to. You want it low enough to not make the oil smoke, and low enough for your chicken not to boil (your chicken should make a sizzling sound in the pan, not a boiling sound). That's mostly just a bit of trial and error. Once you know what to set that dial to, it's easy. I know I need to set my stove to 5 for pan-frying chicken.

Note: sauteing (as if you're doing a stir-fry) is done at higher temperatures so you probably don't want to use extra virgin olive oil for that. Extra light olive oil, canola oil, coconut oil, or peanut oil would be fine.

If you don't want to learn to pan-fry, then grilling chicken is pretty easy. Heat up the grill to medium-high, stick the chicken on there until it cooks 60% of the way through, turn and cook the other 40%, done.

edit: oh, also, season your chicken with salt + pepper prior to putting it in the pan or on the grill for better flavor.

For actual frying beyond sauteing, actually, yes. It will burn very quickly (low smoke point). Palm, sunflower, and coconut oil are pretty good, though. If you can't get those due to price/rarity, peanut is great for light or deep frying. Olive oil is ok for saute, but the purer the better, otherwise you'll be tasting more olive oil than chicken.

Haven't really tried olive oil for saute since I only have extra virgin at home, but I've found that for lower temperature pan-frying, I don't taste it at all. It smells for the first minute or so when I cook with it, but then the smell goes away and it becomes rather tasteless. Maybe it reacts differently at higher temps.

[Sadsic]

but aren't they all things you could change? you could become a christian, you could lose weight, and you could only do guys or you could only do girls. and you can start mass murdering ponies instead of liking them. so all of it your fault then! land of the free, indeed! free to be fat or be what you are!

there are things outside of perceived action that dictate our thoughts feelings and actions. i dont think you can properly judge anyone just based on physical sight or action really; you will never know why anyone ever really did anything, you only can wonder

[Jason's Ultimatum]

She's actually not bad looking. She's the type of girl where you know she's overweight, but if you make her workout and slim down, she'll be really hot.

[ElectricBlue187]

She's actually not bad looking. She's the type of girl where you know she's overweight, but if you make her workout and slim down, she'll be really hot.

"making" someone workout never works ever

[neorej]

Yes. That's the point. Very astute analysis there. We are speaking of hypothetical reasons of why people who aren't you might prioritize things differently. But sure, anybody not willing to cook a basic "pan fried chicken" dinner for their family every night is just lazy. Do you not see that such observations are perhaps slightly disingenuous seeing as how you seem unwilling to exert even a tiny amount of empathy about why this may not be the perfect solution for every person on the planet?

there's a good reason for that; every argument against proper cooking is either time or money and both have been proven to be bullshit.

[eosos]

I'm 320 at 6'4 and i'm fat , i'm trying to loose weight but thats another story. At no time is being fat alright unless you have an actual thyroid problem. Its not healthy and it ruins your chances to do alot of things in life and in the end will shave years off your life and can make the years you have worse . I know how hard it is to loose weight , food is so good and its easy to grab for food when your upset or sad . But its not good for you .

Actually, food is pretty good for you. I don't recommend not eating.

[Jason's Ultimatum]

"making" someone workout never works ever

There are indirect ways. Mwahahahahahaha.

[Gustav]

there's a good reason for that; every argument against proper cooking is either time or money and both have been proven to be bullshit.

Please listen, folks. In every circumstance and situation ever, "no time/no money" is bullshit. It always is. It's the rule of life.

[davepoobond]

there's a good reason for that; every argument against proper cooking is either time or money and both have been proven to be bullshit.

the only thing that is proven to be bullshit is sanctimonious bullshit such as this

[Wthermans]

There are plenty of videos out there, but to start you out: Get a good cast iron or carbon steel pan...a heavy bottom stainless can work as well though it's a bit harder to use. Let it heat up over medium heat. You want it as hot as you can get it without the olive oil smoking, or just barely smoking at the very most. Put in your chicken (breast, thigh, whatever) and let it cook about 60% of the way through. Turn if over and let it cook for the other 40% (shouldn't take as long as the first side). It doesn't matter if your olive oil is extra virgin or not...the solids will burn away and you won't taste the olive oil. The only hard part is finding the right temperature to set your stove to. You want it low enough to not make the oil smoke, and low enough for your chicken not to boil (your chicken should make a sizzling sound in the pan, not a boiling sound). That's mostly just a bit of trial and error. Once you know what to set that dial to, it's easy. I know I need to set my stove to 5 for pan-frying chicken. Note: sauteing (as if you're doing a stir-fry) is done at higher temperatures so you probably don't want to use extra virgin olive oil for that. Extra light olive oil, canola oil, coconut oil, or peanut oil would be fine. If you don't want to learn to pan-fry, then grilling chicken is pretty easy. Heat up the grill to medium-high, stick the chicken on there until it cooks 60% of the way through, turn and cook the other 40%, done. edit: oh, also, season your chicken with salt + pepper prior to putting it in the pan or on the grill for better flavor. Haven't really tried olive oil for saute since I only have extra virgin at home, but I've found that for lower temperature pan-frying, I don't taste it at all. It smells for the first minute or so when I cook with it, but then the smell goes away and it becomes rather tasteless. Maybe it reacts differently at higher temps.

My biggest problem is I have a gas stove that doesn't have hard temperature settings. I can't even tell when something is done without a meat thermometer. No grill either.

Cooking is a talent that I'll never grasp. If I don't have specific instructions and measurements, I can't do it. :(

[Steve Youngblood]

there's a good reason for that; every argument against proper cooking is either time or money and both have been proven to be bullshit.

I don't think that anyone thinks that cooking a meal is impossible. What's being argued is that not everyone has the same time/skill/preparedness.

It's not about literally being capable of doing it, so I'm not sure what you think has been proven.

[KHarvey16]

Guys, if you don't have time to do it then mom and dad will do it for you. Duh.

[Devolution]

the only thing that is proven to be bullshit is sanctimonious bullshit such as this

Indeed. A lot of people just aren't educated about different kinds of food intake, what is actually making them gain weight (like awful drinks) or how to regulate portion sizes.

[daycru]

My biggest problem is I have a gas stove that doesn't have hard temperature settings. I can't even tell when something is done without a meat thermometer. No grill either. Cooking is a talent that I'll never grasp. If I don't have specific instructions and measurements, I can't do it. :(

It's not something I've ever had a feel for. I just Google for recipes and follow along on my iPod. It works well enough but is often kind of bland. My girlfriend is a better cook but she just does the same shit I do, befuddling.

[TheExodu5]

My biggest problem is I have a gas stove that doesn't have hard temperature settings. I can't even tell when something is done without a meat thermometer. No grill either. Cooking is a talent that I'll never grasp. If I don't have specific instructions and measurements, I can't do it. :(

Just give yourself a chance and practice.

Simplified instructions for chicken: make sure the pan and oil are hot enough for the chicken to sizzle during cooking. Cook until it's 60% through (just look at the side of the chicken at the thicket part, it will turn from pink to white), timing how long this takes. Turn it over and cook for a little bit less time on the other side. If you want to make sure it's cooked, cut it and make sure there's no pink. Did you undercook it a bit? Cook it for a little longer next time. Did you overcook it a bit? Cook it for a bit less next time.

Practice makes perfect. Being a chef takes talent. Cooking is a skill and can be learned by anyone.

It's not something I've ever had a feel for. I just Google for recipes and follow along on my iPod. It works well enough but is often kind of bland. My girlfriend is a better cook but she just does the same shit I do, befuddling.

Try some basic recipes. Foodwishes has great YouTube videos along with accompanying recipes.

I'm a complete novice myself. I've probably prepared less than 50 non-packaged meals in my entire life. I moved out 2 months ago today and have been cooking for myself for only the past 1-2 weeks (since I reverted to low carb again). I watch videos and learn as I go. I'm getting better as I go along. I made half a pork tenderloin last week with a mustard/horseradish pan sauce and way overcooked it. I tried it again a few days later, cooked it for a little bit less time and used a thermometer, and it turned out perfect. Besides that, in the past week I've pan-fried steak, chicken breast, chicken thighs, pickerel, and rainbow trout. This week I'm going to attempt to roast a beef brisket, even though I've never done it before. No clue how it'll turn out.

I'll get better with time. Practice makes perfect.

[Draft]

My biggest problem is I have a gas stove that doesn't have hard temperature settings. I can't even tell when something is done without a meat thermometer. No grill either. Cooking is a talent that I'll never grasp. If I don't have specific instructions and measurements, I can't do it. :(

Buy chicken breasts with the bone in and the skin on. Pre-heat the oven to 450 degrees (it takes 20 minutes to reach 450 degrees.) Put some corn, canola or vegetable oil in a pan, skillet or anything else that can go into the oven. I prefer metal containers because it helps the chicken get a crispy skin. Put in just enough oil to cover the bottom of the pan with a very thin film. Put in the chicken on one side. Cook it for 12 minutes. Take the pan out and flip the chicken over. Cook it for another 15 minutes. It's done.

[SeanR1221]

My biggest problem is I have a gas stove that doesn't have hard temperature settings. I can't even tell when something is done without a meat thermometer. No grill either. Cooking is a talent that I'll never grasp. If I don't have specific instructions and measurements, I can't do it. :(

This is what I'm talking about. The other guy types up a nice explanation and more excuses are given.

[OrangeJulius]

It's amazing the kind of progress a person can make when they quit drinking all these sugar, carb and calorie loaded drinks.

You shouldn't drink your calories unless you are an underweight person trying to gain. Stick to water, some juice and milk if that's your thing.

[m0dus]

No they don't. They lack character to do what's necessary. I used to be fat too, the only person to blame was myself. I grew some character and lost that fat.

Obesity is a product of many factors, environment being one of the strongest, but heredity/genetics is also a major contributor. My point in saying they have it hardest--well, most people wouldnt look at someone with some other obvious physical or crippling deformity and immediately think, "that's their fault!"

[Femmeworth]

this topic and all topics on the internet about fat people really bother me... why is it okay to hate/be disgusted by fat people but not to hate/be disgusted by dark skinned people/interracial marriage/homosexuals/etc... Just because being fat can possibly be a choice does not make it okay to look down on/be disgusted by/hate people who cant control their weight. There are reasons outside of that person and the viewer's judgment that make the person fat, and it's wrong to judge someone before you know them. It's not a sin to be fat or any other choice that someone made that you dont like. I like ponies and i am like 40 lbs overweight and i am bisexual and jewish and all kinds of shit i get crap for on a daily basis and i dont think any of it is my "fault", nor is it anyone elses "fault" for the choices they made. No one is omnipotent and this is all perspective.

Obesity is a legitimate problem, of course that doesn't justify shaming people for it.

[Sadsic]

Obesity is a legitimate problem, of course that doesn't justify shaming people for it.

topics like this give me serious body image issues... it really bothers me that there are people out there judging my entire soul because im like 40 lbs overweight. it hurts me; people have more to them than just physical appearance!

[leadbelly]

Advertisement and all those views.

[Deified Data]

Obesity should not be encouraged. Obese people should not be made to feel lesser for it, however.

For all of you complaining about obese people (or any people who don't share you lifestyle) upping your healthcare premiums, you can go live in the woods if you're so disgusted by living in a mutually-supportive society.

this topic and all topics on the internet about fat people really bother me... why is it okay to hate/be disgusted by fat people but not to hate/be disgusted by dark skinned people/interracial marriage/homosexuals/etc...

This point isn't made often enough. It's okay to be concerned for the health of the obese, and wish they would live a healthier lifestyle. But those of you seemingly disgusted by them are no better than racists or homophobes. It's okay if you're content with that, but it should make you think twice the next time you feel like roasting someone for displaying those views.

[Seguin]

It seems lately that GAF has been filled with some pretty contentious debate about sexism and gender. And it could just be my own personal biases, but it feels like both fat people and women are subjected to a lot of derision here. So was wondering what GAF thought of this vid that has been shared a lot today... http://youtu.be/h-BxWV77MGc

What the hell, what's with all the positive comments on this video? That's so...strange for Youtube.

[LowEndTorque]

topics like this give me serious body image issues... it really bothers me that there are people out there judging my entire soul because im like 40 lbs overweight. it hurts me; people have more to them than just physical appearance!

I'm having a hard time deciphering whether the "if you aren't perfect then it's your fault and you are a lazy piece of shit for not doing something to change it so you can be perfect like me" crowd are directing their criticism at people who morbidly obese to the point of being crippled (like 500lb+ people) or just at overweight people in general (like the cute girl in that vid)

[Chittagong]

I don't like fat people celebrating fat people. I think why it winds people up is a combination of factors. First is a perceived lack of self discipline, a nearly universally valued human trait. Second is that fat people represent the inner fears for many people, that it would happen to them. Third is that it necessitates preferential treatment for them.

I was flying in an A320 middle seat today. My knees didn't touch the seat in front of me, although I am 6.25 feet tall. So a pretty spacious cabin.

The lady next to me was so fat that her stomach touched the seat in front of her. Not her knees, just the belly. You know how a really fat belly somehow disintegrates and drops over the belt down to knee height like a bag.

Obviously the seat back tray wouldn't open because that's where her belly was, so she placed a board on top of her belly to act as a tray, but complained to the staff that it was wobbly. Overall, her fatness caused more work for the stuff than other passengers.

There was no hand rest to me obviously. Plus, her fat rolled over the hand rest to and down the side of my seat, and kept on touching me. That's pretty awkward.

She was not doing any efforts to change things either, fatty sandwiches, chocolate, a big bag full of tax free candy.

Yes, surely there must be a range of physical and psychological problems and conditions making into what she was, but I don't see myself as a horrible person for feeling bad things about her - I don't see anything to be proud of in being fat.

[Femmeworth]

topics like this give me serious body image issues... it really bothers me that there are people out there judging my entire soul because im like 40 lbs overweight. it hurts me; people have more to them than just physical appearance!

Sadly, there will likely be better solutions for weight control way before we stop being so fixated on physical appearances. Evolutionary baggage sucks.

[Liquidus]

I'm against animal cruelly thus against having intercourse with a whale. I wish her nothing but the best and plenty of mackerel.

[Deified Data]

Obviously the seat back tray wouldn't open because that's where her belly was, so she placed a board on top of her belly to act as a tray, but complained to the staff that it was wobbly. Overall, her fatness caused more work for the stuff than other passengers.

...the staff who are being paid to cater to passengers like her. I don't know what to say. I'm sure there's an airline out there somewhere that might cater to the "no fatties" crowd, but until you find it you're stuck riding with the rest of us. Pay for the seat next to your's in the future.

I'm against animal cruelly thus against having intercourse with a whale. I wish her nothing but the best and plenty of mackerel.

Liquidus
Aggressively Stupid
(Today, 11:31 PM)
Quote

[LowEndTorque]

I'm against animal cruelly thus against having intercourse with a whale. I wish her nothing but the best and plenty of mackerel.

I can see how you got you tag.

[krameriffic]

Well that's all well and good, but I don't see why these people deserve your hate because they make poor choices. I know people who have made some VERY poor choices in life that have nothing to do with diet but I've never made the judgement that I hate them. Not everybody wears their poor choices on their sleeve like obese people do. Just because you see their poor choices doesn't mean their choice deserves your scorn more than anybody else's.

Then you've never known someone who made a really poor choice whose ripples spilled over into your life. Being fat, on the scale of repercussions for others, probably isn't the worst thing you can do. Maybe it's contributory to high health care costs in the US or embarrassing for their family, but for the most part, it's that person's problem. However, when someone's bad decisions begin to spill over, say your friend's financial stupidity leaves him penniless and sleeping on your couch. Or a junky mugs you in order to pay for his next score. Or an alcoholic or obese family member eats or drinks himself to death.

You've all had these sorts of things in your life. It's not about the personal disgust or hatred you feel for these people or the decisions that come to define them. It's about their own personal responsibility, and fucking you over because of a lack thereof. It's about accountability for the consequences their bad choices have on said person and those around them. When their personal shortcoming (whatever it may be) becomes more important to them than the lives of others who depend on them, or innocent people who have nothing to do with their mistake, that is bullshit.

Hating these people for these kinds of mistakes is perhaps not the best response, but it is not unreasonable. People don't change. When you know these kinds of people, you realize that whatever they are doing wrong, they almost always keep doing it. They exploit and manipulate you if you're generous. Every word out of their mouth sounds to start like a bullshit excuse. Not a day goes by that they don't try to sell you some self-serving story to explain away their failures.

This is the part where I hedge my statements. I'm talking from my person experience with people who've made these sorts of mistakes. Doesn't always happen this way, and I don't have all the details, but I'm jaded enough to extrapolate it to most cases.

[Ezalc]

All I got from that is that I like her voice, towards the middle of the video she speaks in a really nice soothing way.

[Class_A_Ninja]

All good here, thanks for asking.

From what I've gathered from others I'm lucky that I have good health. I have seen people with better routines feel a lot worse.

Hard to say what can be done.

[charlequin]

why is it okay to hate/be disgusted by fat people but not to hate/be disgusted by dark skinned people/interracial marriage/homosexuals/etc...

It's... not?

First is a perceived lack of self discipline, a nearly universally valued human trait.

Obesity doesn't have much to do with self-discipline. Most studies indicate that, outside a food-lacking environment, heredity is the single biggest contributor to weight, and that most people who qualify as medically "overweight" or above won't actually lose much weight on a healthy diet and moderate exercise. (In fact, recent studies suggest that the body reacts to significant weight loss with severe metabolic changes intended to prevent further loss -- which mean that most people who started heavy will need to maintain a far lower-calorie, higher-exercise routine to keep off their weight than a naturally skinny person would.)

[Jroderton]

HAWT

[Atrus]

There's no reason to point out someone's obesity when they're already conscious of it and doing something positive regarding the issue. It shouldn't be an issue of intended malice; humor is fine and all, but malice takes things a little too far.

However, obesity shouldn't be regarded as a lifestyle choice anymore than blinding oneself is. It is a crippling symptom that in the end minimizes both an individuals capacity and potential for self-actualization and one that burdens the rest of society with the cost of shouldering the negative health choices of that individual.

I suppose in some narcissistic way you could ask why the healthy should care that the obese are eating themselves towards death or why the smoker puffs their way to their end. I think it's best for the social prerogative to be one that advances the quality of human existence rather than one that wallows in its vices.

[SeanR1221]

It's... not? Obesity doesn't have much to do with self-discipline. Most studies indicate that, outside a food-lacking environment, heredity is the single biggest contributor to weight, and that most people who qualify as medically "overweight" or above won't actually lose much weight on a healthy diet and moderate exercise. (In fact, recent studies suggest that the body reacts to significant weight loss with severe metabolic changes intended to prevent further loss -- which mean that most people who started heavy will need to maintain a far lower-calorie, higher-exercise routine to keep off their weight than a naturally skinny person would.)

Can you provide a meta-analysis of these studies. Since most indicate heredity as the sinle biggest contributer, should be easy.

[Copernicus]

It's... not? )

The following is going to be really offensive to some.

Nobody should be made to feel bad about their instinctual feelings they have no control over. Be it racism/sexism/fatism/intellectualism. When you start talking about how a certain people "should" think of feel about anything we're creeping into thought police territory.

With that said, how you feel about something and you're actions toward that are entirely different.

If someone wants to be a white supremacist or anti-gays, they have every single right to their own thoughts and notions. We step in when someone starts acting upon others.

Should we try educate ignorant people and help them? Of course, but we can't force those things upon unwillingly recipients.

As we delve deeper and deeper into the human psyche, I think we'll end up seeing that bigotry will end up being something akin to mental illnesses rather than willing choice.

[akachan ningen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Roky5...ailpage#t=368s Watch this video people this man speaks the truth

that's because he stole everything from bill hicks.

[NaturalHigh]

As we delve deeper and deeper into the human psyche, I think we'll end up seeing that bigotry will end up being something akin to mental illnesses rather than willing choice.

I can agree with that. However, you can't take the environmental factors for granted. A lot of bigotry stems from parents who are just ignorant and have already decided their kid's ideals. Nurture vs nature. I'd say it is more about growing up in society today and how you are raised more so than chemical imbalances in your brain or something. But I will not rule your opinion out. I will find you in 40 years when they discover evidence to back up your theory and give you kudos.

[LaserBuddha]

I think we'll end up seeing that bigotry will end up being something akin to mental illnesses rather than willing choice.

It's certainly not a willing choice. I can't just choose to be a racist tomorrow. I can say the words but I can't will myself to believe in it.

Sure, you can sometimes overcome racist feelings with just your own willpower, in other words you can choose not to be a racist. But that is also sometimes possible with depression. We know depression is a mental illness.

I'd say in a lot of cases though, people have only a slight emotional issue with something invovling a race, and come to an impasse where their conscience decides where to hate the race or give them the benefit of the doubt. Those racists are simply jerks, or at least poorly educated. Even more racists were simply raised to think that way.

[slit]

Then you've never known someone who made a really poor choice whose ripples spilled over into your life.

Yes, but that wasn't the point.

Being fat, on the scale of repercussions for others, probably isn't the worst thing you can do. Maybe it's contributory to high health care costs in the US or embarrassing for their family, but for the most part, it's that person's problem. However, when someone's bad decisions begin to spill over, say your friend's financial stupidity leaves him penniless and sleeping on your couch. Or a junky mugs you in order to pay for his next score. Or an alcoholic or obese family member eats or drinks himself to death.

I'm talking about not hating the person for the problem, not the problems it causes you.

You've all had these sorts of things in your life. It's not about the personal disgust or hatred you feel for these people or the decisions that come to define them. It's about their own personal responsibility, and fucking you over because of a lack thereof.

Somebody fucking you over for their problems is one thing, you hating somebody because of their appearance or the bad choices they've made in THEIR life is something else entirely.

It's about accountability for the consequences their bad choices have on said person and those around them. When their personal shortcoming (whatever it may be) becomes more important to them than the lives of others who depend on them, or innocent people who have nothing to do with their mistake, that is bullshit.

I agree so I have no idea what your point is.

Hating these people for these kinds of mistakes is perhaps not the best response, but it is not unreasonable. People don't change. When you know these kinds of people, you realize that whatever they are doing wrong, they almost always keep doing it. They exploit and manipulate you if you're generous. Every word out of their mouth sounds to start like a bullshit excuse. Not a day goes by that they don't try to sell you some self-serving story to explain away their failures.

That's just as much your fault for allowing yourself to be manipulated or buying into their self-serving stories

[Trent Strong]

It's... not? Obesity doesn't have much to do with self-discipline. Most studies indicate that, outside a food-lacking environment, heredity is the single biggest contributor to weight, and that most people who qualify as medically "overweight" or above won't actually lose much weight on a healthy diet and moderate exercise. (In fact, recent studies suggest that the body reacts to significant weight loss with severe metabolic changes intended to prevent further loss -- which mean that most people who started heavy will need to maintain a far lower-calorie, higher-exercise routine to keep off their weight than a naturally skinny person would.)

This can't be so. If this were true, then the percentage of overweight people in the US wouldn't have skyrocketed over the past 30 years or so. Heredity or genetics couldn't possibly be the cause of this sudden and huge increase in obesity.

[Toodles]

Bunch of self-centric people in this thread, blessed with a brain that's nicely wired up to actively better themselves and ignorantly assuming this is a norm which applies to each and every other human.

[Feep]

Bunch of self-centric people in this thread, blessed with a brain that's nicely wired up to actively better themselves and ignorantly assuming this is a norm which applies to each and every other human.

I started a thread some years ago, entitled "Is it okay to hate stupid people?" After all, it isn't really their fault if they're stupid...children can't control their genetics or upbringing. Even their desire to work hard and change is probably mostly beyond their control.

Is it okay to dislike a person for not wanting to better themselves?

[davepoobond]

I started a thread some years ago, entitled "Is it okay to hate stupid people?" After all, it isn't really their fault if they're stupid...children can't control their genetics or upbringing. Even their desire to work hard and change is probably mostly beyond their control. Is it okay to dislike a person for not wanting to better themselves?

i think most people would say we are taught that we should be accepting of others no matter what they look like. i dont see how "being fat" is outside of that spectrum.

(also, notice my terminology, i know that it isnt what actually happens)

[Amibguous Cad]

I know it's Cracked, but an interesting take on the matter nonetheless.

Let's get this straight: The number of people who go from fat to thin, and stay there, statistically rounds down to zero. Every study says so. No study says otherwise. None. Oh, you can lose a ton of weight. You'll gain it back. Here's one study running the numbers. Here's a much larger analysis of every long-term weight loss study they could find. They all find the exact same thing: You can lose and keep off some minor amount, 10 or 15 pounds, for the rest of your life -- it's hard, but it can be done. Rarer cases may keep off a little more. But no one goes from actually fat to actually thin and stays thin permanently. And when I say "no one," I mean those cases are so obscenely rare that they don't even appear on the chart. They can't even find enough such people to include in the studies. It's like trying to study people who have survived falling out of planes. Being fat is effectively incurable, every study shows it, and no one will admit it. So the guy or girl you see in the "Before" and "After" photos in weight loss commercials, who completely changed body type with diet and exercise? You know, like Jared from Subway, who lost 230 pounds? Either they're about to be fat again in a couple of years, or they're a medical freak occurrence, like the sick guy who was told he had six months to live but miraculously survives 20 years. That guy exists, we all know famous examples. But it's a rare, freak situation, living in defiance of all of the physical processes at work. How rare? Well, this person did the math, and as far as they could tell, two out of 1,000 Weight Watchers customers actually maintain large weight losses permanently. Two out of a thousand. That means if you are fat, you are 25 times more likely to survive getting shot in the head than to stop being fat. Meanwhile, here's an article where scientists marvel at the amazing success of Weight Watchers, because a study of their most successful customers showed they permanently lost 5 percent of their weight. Wow! You come in at 300 pounds, you stay at 285! Next stop, thong store! So please remember this the next time the subject comes up at the office or on some message board and you get bombarded by thin 20-year-olds insisting the obese need to just "cut out the junk food" or "take care of themselves" or "do some exercise." The body physically won't allow that for a formerly fat person. "Well, just stop eating so much!" Sure, kid. To feel what it's like, try this: Go, say, just 72 hours without eating anything. See how long it is until the starvation mechanism kicks in and the brain starts hammering you with food urges with such machine gun frequency that it is basically impossible to resist. That's what life is like for a formerly fat person all the time. Their starvation switch is permanently on. And they're not going 72 hours, they're trying to go the rest of their lives. Don't take my word for it. Here's a breakdown of the science, in plain English. It's like being an addict where the withdrawal symptoms last for decades. As that article explains, the person who is at 175 pounds after a huge weight loss now has a completely different physical makeup from the person who is naturally 175 -- exercise benefits them less, calories are more readily stored as fat, the impulse to eat occurs far, far more often. The formerly fat person can exercise ten times the willpower of the never-fat guy, and still wind up fat again. The impulses are simply more frequent, and stronger, and the physical consequences of giving in are more severe. The people who successfully do it are the ones who become psychologically obsessive about it, like that weird guy who built an Eiffel Tower out of toothpicks. Statistically, the only option with any success rate is a horrible, horrible surgical procedure. I can find no data whatsoever that says otherwise. Keep all of this in mind the next time you see a Jenny Craig or Bowflex commercial.

http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/f...ng-to-science/

Losing the weight seems to be significantly harder than keeping it off in the first place. Health initiatives would probably be better served by making sure people never hit that weight than they are at exhorting the already obese to chase after a miracle.

[Row]

out of curiosity, do the people saying it's wrong to criticize or insult people for being fat think the same thing in regards to criticizing those that don't bathe?