sflufan
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(07-06-2012, 06:31 PM)

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Did you think using North Koreans in Homefront was stupid? Well, so did Kaos Studios #1

All this and more detailed in this Gamasutra article, "Kaos Descends: How Homefront's Developer Met Its End"

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...omefronts_.php

Edit:

Here are a couple of quotes to get you started:

Quote:
One source tells us the minimal expectations for all members of the studio were six months of 12-hour shifts, six to seven days per week. But actually, according to the ex-staffer, most of the studio was clocking 14 to 16 hour days, seven days a week, during that six-month window. Some worked that schedule for 14 months, and jobs were at risk if the time quota wasn't met.

The staffer describes "inhuman, combative" leadership and labor under a system of fear. Many employees say their health and family relationships suffered -- and hearing THQ execs tell the media that crunch was reasonable and expected felt like a slap in the face, as the crunch came from poor management and an unhealthy environment, not because the work ethic dictated it.
Quote:
And Kaos' own studio was rife with facility problems. Employees describe an "absolute dump" where, by the end, some staffers had desks beneath stairs. One men's room urinal sprung a leak, and someone's idea of repair was to stick a trashcan underneath it with a warning sign. One ex-employee estimates the urinal went un-repaired for some seven months, and that the "Urinal Bucket" became something of a symbol for the hopelessness and irrelevance the team felt when compared to THQ's shiny new Canada studio -- the one THQ would soon announce was taking over Kaos' franchise.
Last edited by Nirolak; 07-06-2012 at 06:33 PM.
Guevara
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(07-06-2012, 06:32 PM)

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#2

I liked it. I mean yeah it's stupid but so is every COD. Homefront had an ok setting and story and gameplay from 1998. That was the problem.
Dark Octave
bE in Litrit is fo sukas
(07-06-2012, 06:32 PM)

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#3

We gotta use somebody and not everybody can use the same brown people over and over again.

Aliens next time? Dolphins?
Nirolak
Super Adventure Boxing
(07-06-2012, 06:32 PM)

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#4

I added a couple quotes to get people interested in clicking. It's quite a good read.
Derrick01
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(07-06-2012, 06:34 PM)

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#5

I didn't have a problem with the setting. If anything it was a breath of fresh air from shooting russians or brown people in some desert.

Since I didn't play the full game I'll say my biggest problem with it was learning that I finished 1/3 of the game in my 1 hour PS+ full game trial.
darkpaladinmfc
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(07-06-2012, 06:36 PM)

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#6

Originally Posted by Guevara: View Post
I liked it. I mean yeah it's stupid but so is every COD. Homefront had an ok setting and story and gameplay from 1998. That was the problem.
I haven't played Homefront but FPS gameplay from 1998? If so I should pick it up!
Valkyr Junkie
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(07-06-2012, 06:37 PM)

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#7

Well at least they didn't stick anyone's desk next to the "Urinal Bucket."
LQX
Remember, he is Canadian.
(07-06-2012, 06:38 PM)

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#8

Yeah, Russians would have been a much better choice and maybe have the story revolve around the cold war. Even a Canada vs US scenario would have worked better and somewhat be more believable.

I actually liked it though. That farm level was great fun.
Dark Octave
bE in Litrit is fo sukas
(07-06-2012, 06:39 PM)

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#9

Originally Posted by LQX: View Post
Yeah, Russians would have been a much better choice and maybe have the story revolve around the cold war. Even a Canada vs US scenario would have worked better and somewhat be more believable.

I actually liked it though. That farm level was great fun.
Hasn't that been done to death in games and movies since the 80s?
Rapstah
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(07-06-2012, 06:40 PM)

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#10

Those figuratively sound like North Korean working conditions.
Canis lupus
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(07-06-2012, 06:43 PM)

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#11

The story wouldve been better and believable if for example China was the enemy. A 20 million nation invading a 300 million nation?
digita1alchemy
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(07-06-2012, 06:45 PM)

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#12

Originally Posted by Rapstah: View Post
Those figuratively sound like North Korean working conditions.
"Method developing"?
Astery
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(07-06-2012, 06:45 PM)

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#13

So is the topic about the game setting w North Korea or the horrible working environment the team went through?

North Korea is actually a good choice of setting, at least it won't grab my interest if it's not that.

The working environment however is absolutely terrible, I'm surprised that they did not quit.
bkfount
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(07-06-2012, 06:47 PM)

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#14

They should have just used the Chinese, but they aren't the only ones that pussied out on that. The Red Dawn remake got delayed so they could swap in North Koreans in post production.
Interficium
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(07-06-2012, 06:48 PM)

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#15

Somehow had forgotten that the Kaos was founded by the Desert Combat guys. Now I'm a little sad.
luxarific
Nork unification denier
(07-06-2012, 06:53 PM)

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#16

VINDICATION AT LAST.
ghibli99
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(07-06-2012, 06:56 PM)

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#17

Quote:
DeLise is described by his former colleagues as the studio's passionate head and heart, and a resolute problem-solver who built the studio from scratch and liked to get as much as possible done with his own two hands. That made the gap left by his departure all the wider, as many claim there was no plan for anyone to adequately take the reins from him.
I found this to be interesting. As a leader, it's one of the hardest things to balance passion and hands-on involvement with actual planning/strategy; in this case, legacy planning at his level. The fact that the team felt like they were on a ship without a rudder after his departure doesn't paint a very good picture of the studio doing good succession planning. I have to look at my own position from the somewhat grim perspective of, "If I went down in a plane crash tomorrow, would my department be OK?" I can answer yes to that while still knowing I'm in integral part to its success/function.
Sojgat
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(07-06-2012, 07:01 PM)

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#18

Kaos sounds like it was a hellhole. I loved Desert Combat, but Homefront really wasn't a very good game. It's never good to hear about horror stories like this.
Vilam
Maxis Redwood
(07-06-2012, 07:03 PM)

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#19

It should have been China, but there were disappointing political ramifications that got in the way of that. I had no problem with it being North Korea as an alternative, and still thoroughly enjoyed the scenario.

Those poor people at that studio though. I worked on Frontlines (at an external location) and they seemed like a good group that had smart ideas and fun game play.
Corleth the Fey
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(07-06-2012, 07:04 PM)

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#20

It's a shame. Didn't some of these guys once make the fantastic Desert Combat mod for Battlefield 1942? Truly the daddy of all Modern Warfare.
Xander51
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(07-06-2012, 07:07 PM)

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#21

That was a great read. I still haven't played Homefront, maybe I should finally give it a shot.
lord
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(07-06-2012, 07:08 PM)

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#22

That sounds horrible. Are they developers or FOXCONN factory workers? At least they get paid well but even so, those are unacceptable working conditions. I guess if you are doing something you love it's not as bad, but having no time to have quality time with your family sounds like hell.
sTeLioSco
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(07-06-2012, 07:09 PM)

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#23

these articles made me feel guilt playing videogames....

its like buying blood diamonds,goddamn publishers and their medieval-working-contitions.
MiniBossBattle
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(07-06-2012, 07:10 PM)

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#24

My favorite is how much they spent advertising and how little developmental support Kaos got.
GitarooMan
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(07-06-2012, 07:10 PM)

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#25

It's really too bad, because I thought Homefront had excellent multiplayer that was a lot of fun and had some great maps. There was definitely potential to build on that.
4cough
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(07-06-2012, 07:15 PM)

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#26

China should have been the choice, Apart from the USA; I think the world see China as the No1 military contender at the moment.
The Albatross
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(07-06-2012, 07:19 PM)

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#27

About 1/100th of that article was about the choice to use North Korea as the antagonist. 99/100 was about working conditions.

I think it's a good idea that they used North Korea because, well, they're a plausible foe and it's better to see that than former soviet Russian ex-pats, twisted American general gone psycho, and non-descript Arab terrorist.
coldfoot
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(07-06-2012, 07:20 PM)

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#28

Would have bought the game if the North Koreans were replaced by Chinese, I had a lot of fun with Operation Anchorage in Fallout 3.
ShdwDrake
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(07-06-2012, 07:20 PM)
#29

Gameplay from 1998? Gotta snag a copy.
Warm Machine
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(07-06-2012, 07:32 PM)

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#30

Homefront was the dumbest development idea they could have gone through with.

They SHOULD have done a sequel to Frontlines: Fuel of War. The reason for this was that they had an established IP, Assets, gameplay expectations, and online infrastructure. All they had to do was upgrade, improve, and polish what was already done.

The 50 player servers were full for a year after release of the Xbox version and very few other online games offered 50 players at a time like Frontlines did. There was a fanbase and if their marketing department could have taken that and ran with it.

Why delete all that damn work and effort just to chase another new IP that you have to build from the ground up with NO guarnatee of success?
Dyno
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(07-06-2012, 08:39 PM)

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#31

What amazes me is the man years put into a game that was so average, so lacklustre, so by the numbers and forgettable. What's up with that? I'm guessing that if the job is pure shit then you turn out shit work?

It's such a messed up business. You hear about these stories every week. It seems nearly all the studios run like this.
Palette Swap
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(07-06-2012, 08:41 PM)

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#32

I find it telling that I'm having more fun with Rogue Warrior than I did with Homefront.
Nils
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(07-06-2012, 08:42 PM)

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#33

Quote:
The staffer describes "inhuman, combative" leadership and labor under a system of fear. Many employees say their health and family relationships suffered
Was the game developed in North Korea as well?
KareBear
Member
(07-06-2012, 08:44 PM)
#34

Did anyone else play the Desert Combat mod for BF1942 they made when they were called Trauma Studios?Its really sad seeing how they ended up.
Last edited by KareBear; 07-06-2012 at 08:46 PM.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
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(07-06-2012, 08:46 PM)

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#35

How was the single player in this? I know it's really short but is it pretty good?
1-D_FTW
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(07-06-2012, 08:48 PM)

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#36

Originally Posted by Nirolak: View Post
I added a couple quotes to get people interested in clicking. It's quite a good read.
Indeed. Only reinforces what an irredeemable shithole the industry is, though.
gondwana
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(07-06-2012, 08:50 PM)

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#37

somewhere, in the officies of wedbush morgan securities... a smile
Gorillaz
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(07-06-2012, 08:51 PM)

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#38

I think people would be surprised if they knew the working conditions of most of these dev teams. I remember hearing Team Bondi went through some stressful shit with Rockstar.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
(07-06-2012, 08:54 PM)

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#39

I'd love for a major news organization to do a complete investigation/blowout of how horrible the conditions are in the industry.
Flying_Phoenix
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(07-06-2012, 09:04 PM)

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#40

I'm still trying to fathom how it's possible that the poorest country in the world can invade the richest country in the world.
Palette Swap
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(07-06-2012, 09:05 PM)

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#41

Originally Posted by Flying_Phoenix: View Post
I'm still trying to fathom how it's possible that the poorest country in the world can invade the richest country in the world.
Invade, occupy and totally dominate it.
Parakeetman
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(07-06-2012, 09:11 PM)

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#42

Good read. Interesting to see what really went on and why the project went south a bit.

Its a damned shame too considering the MP portion was pretty solid and made up for the lackluster SP campaign. Though MP was ruined by hacking which wasnt addressed fast enough, that totally destroyed the already small userbase. The gameplay felt good, so did the weapons and the maps were quite well done I thought.
semiconscious
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(07-06-2012, 09:13 PM)

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#43

Originally Posted by Rapstah: View Post
Those figuratively sound like North Korean working conditions.
my first thought. 'immersion' :) ...
Boerseun
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(07-06-2012, 09:35 PM)

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#44

In the battle of the 2011 on-line shooters...

Homefront > Modern Warfare 3 > Battlefield 3

Ignoring single-player campaigns, of course (as they should be).
TemplaerDude
(07-06-2012, 09:39 PM)

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#45

Originally Posted by Boerseun: View Post
In the battle of the 2011 on-line shooters...

Homefront > Modern Warfare 3 > Battlefield 3

Ignoring single-player campaigns, of course (as they should be).
Ah, the old "greater than" argument. Works Makes absolutely no sense every time.
Josh7289
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(07-06-2012, 09:40 PM)

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#46

Is there ever any news about good working conditions in this industry? Seriously.
Fudgepuppy
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(07-06-2012, 09:44 PM)

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#47

Originally Posted by Josh7289: View Post
Is there ever any news about good working conditions in this industry? Seriously.
Valve, Mojang, Rocksteady etc.
BruiserBear
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(07-06-2012, 09:45 PM)

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#48

Originally Posted by Josh7289: View Post
Is there ever any news about good working conditions in this industry? Seriously.
Have you ever heard pleasant stories out of studios after they're closed? People are always upset after getting laid off.
1-D_FTW
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(07-06-2012, 09:50 PM)

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#49

Originally Posted by BruiserBear: View Post
Have you ever heard pleasant stories out of studios after they're closed? People are always upset after getting laid off.
Doesn't change the facts. It just means they keep their mouths shut when they are employed so they don't get canned.
diamount
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(07-06-2012, 09:51 PM)

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#50

Cartoonish villains are hardly a new thing.