[Jeff-DSA]

What happens when you're served papers that you can't read? I'm questioning whether or not the school has literate employees.

[Gartooth]

Like night and day here over in the west side of Michigan.

[WillyFive]

Why aren't people in this thread focusing on the schools role in this? I understand the parents should take a portion of the blame, but holy shit, what the fuck is happening at the schools?

Schools are a mess these days. There is not one single problem, but a very large number of problems that weight down the entire system. It's something that no single politician will ever be able to fix, and it has doomed a lot of students in their education.

Waiting for Superman is a good documentary on the subject, it covers some of the things that lead to malfunctioning schools; but even then there are teachers that disagree that the problems shown in the movie are the only reasons.

Holy Shit all of those scores are awful. And I thought my high school was bad. I mean what is even the point of going to school if you don't learn anything?

It keeps them out of the streets, being affected by (and joining in) crimes.

[Mac the KNife]

Like night and day here over in the west side of Michigan.

Crossing Detroit's city limits is like night and day.

[Veezy]

I don't think we should be pointing fingers at people like that. There's a lot of factors that go into blame regarding this, and much of it deservedly falls on the parents, but trying to find something to blame in particular is counterproductive. I'd rather fix it. Can you fix bad parents?

The blame is on parents, per se.

If a kid grows up in a shit neighbor hood and isn't taught to read or write properly, then has kids, what happens at that point?

It's a really fucked cycle that's only exaggerated by the fact that you have single parents working more than one job or who don't have the financial ability to get tutors for kids that need them. Hell, some of these kids don't eat daily and we're pissed they can't read?

Shit is bad in Detroit. Really, really, really, really bad. I have family that lives out there who deals with it daily. Shit, my aunt had the wheels, stock I might add, stolen off her car four separate times with and the cops just can't shit.

We can place all the blame we want on parents, but when an entire fucking city is having issues with both public and private services, we need to look at the bigger picture on what society needs to do versus individuals.

[Shao Kahn Going Shopping]

The blame is on parents, per se. If a kid grows up in a shit neighbor hood and isn't taught to read or write properly, then has kids, what happens at that point? It's a really fucked cycle that's only exaggerated by the fact that you have single parents working more than one job or who don't have the financial ability to get tutors for kids that need them. Hell, some of these kids don't daily and we're pissed they can't read? Shit is bad in Detroit. Really, really, really, really bad. I have family that lives out there who deals with it daily. Shit, my aunt had the wheels, stock I might add, stolen off her car four separate times with and the cops just can't shit. We can place all the blame we want on parents, but when an entire fucking city is having issues with both public and private services, we need to look at the bigger picture on what society needs to do versus individuals.

Thankfully there's at least a system of checks and balances, and ways to review and change everything EXCEPT for your parents.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

So you see a school with a 90 percent failure rate, and instead of thinking maybe just MAYBE there's something wrong with the school, your first thought is that 90 percent of the parents are shitty parents?

Where did I say that?

[HamPster PamPster]

Its sucks to see people in this thread write off the 10% succeeding on some level because of everyone else. Even if 90% of the students/parents suck a functioning school should be there the ones that want it and need it

Not everyone can just pack up and move

[Tomat]

Crossing Detroit's city limits is like night and day.

Do you spend a lot of time in Detroit? I live pretty damn close to it but the only time I've ever down there is for the occasional hockey game.

Seems like an interesting place, would like to spend more time down there but I'm not exactly sure what I'd do. Cruising around the neighborhoods doesn't seem like the greatest idea.

[Veezy]

Thankfully there's at least a system of checks and balances, and ways to review and change everything EXCEPT for your parents.

True. But arguing about the things we cannot change in order to justify not adjust the things we can is a foolish endeavor.

[Charoncaori]

Holy hell, I can't imagine what their classes must be like.

[kswiston]

- vastly underfunded schools
- issues with gangs and other things that encourage kids not to attend class
- a culture in low income areas that discourages academics altogether
- zero parental involvement
- teachers who are afraid (sometimes rightly so) of their students, and who would rather socially promote kids than deal with conflict

Lots of problems. A lack of respect for adults by stuudents (and burnt out apathetic teachers) doesn't help matters.

Unfortunately, by grade 11 it is way too late. If a kid is operating at a grade 2 or 3 level by grade 9, they will never catch up unless they have almost exclusive 1 on 1 tutoring/instruction and that will never happen due to budgetary restraints.

Not sure how much suing the schools will help (I would guess that it will help very little), but the schools do need some major reforms, starting with the 4-5 year old kids just starting out.

[FStop7]

I went to Michigan public schools from grades K - 8. It was a very small, rural town on the western side of the state (about 2 hours from Chicago). The schools were relatively new, well funded, uncrowded, and the teachers were great.

Sounds like this is more of a Detroit thing to me.

[Gartooth]

Crossing Detroit's city limits is like night and day.

I met some good people in college this last year from the east side of the state that swear Detroit isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Still don't believe them to this day. :p

[Shao Kahn Going Shopping]

Seems like an interesting place, would like to spend more time down there but I'm not exactly sure what I'd do. Cruising around the neighborhoods doesn't seem like the greatest idea.

I do not recommend that course of action.

True. But arguing about the things we cannot change in order to justify not adjust the things we can is a foolish endeavor.

Yeah. It's really borderline unfixable. Between all the issues on the surface, we also have an unfortunate culture that encourages these kinds of things.

[jonezer4]

this artacal are blowing way out of pabortion.

im from hiland park and reed and rite prefectly.

[Big Baybee]

I have family in Detroit and Pontiac. I love going up there and spending time in the hood. The city is in a terrible state......This is coming from someone from Louisiana.

[Hari Seldon]

I'm sure the ACLU would throw a shit fit if someone tried to do that.

Maybe, but is it better to have some discipline and give these kids an education or to keep throwing teachers, who are trained for suburbia style teaching, into the fire in order to fail another generation of kids?

Imo, these inner city schools need to start recruiting African American army and police officers who want a career in teaching. They need some role models that will give these kids some tough love. Literally anything is worth a shot as long as generation after generation of kids are not going down the prison/gang route.

[BannedEpisode]

This is a god damn shame.

How does this even happen?

[Keru_Shiri]

I mistakenly read the thread title as 10% illiteracy rate and was still horrified.

[Gaborn]

Holy shit. "Portioning out the blame"? Are you kidding me? You really feel it's that necessary to make the "parents are at fault" post immediately after this kind of story? Poor kids from poorly educated parents in bad neighborhoods are more likely to struggle. No shit. But when institutions completely fail at their stated goals, there's no need to portion out blame. The school is failing, completely, without aberration. And what about the institutions that helped make their parents, grandparents, and great grandparents poorly educated, contributed to them struggling to find jobs? How quickly do you point to those failings rather then the "parents need to take responsibility" argument? This shit drives me crazy. For it to be first reply after a terrible story about kids lives being ruined and having no recourse from their schools is just mind blowing. Do you really give that little of a shit about these kids? Is it really that core to your being to find blame in their parents so you can feel a little bit less responsible for contributing to a society where this shit happens? I know you know there are schools doing better for kids in similarly fucked up situations, and yet still you can't help yourself from making this sort of loaded political post in a story where 100% of kids are behind.

I think the answer has to be that everyone is failing these kids. The teachers aren't getting through. The parents may not be able to be involved enough living in poverty (more likely to have longer hours, more likely to have multiple jobs, etc). In addition the students probably feel like they're in a hopeless environment so they're more likely to give up.

I think the way you fix this... frankly I don't think you CAN fix it all at once, some of the older kids may be unreachable at this point. But you have to start young. First step, any teacher that has a class full of non-proficient students should be monitored more closely to make sure he or she isn't the problem. Second, I think that more funding should be given NOT to the teachers or the schools alone but to after school programs.

I believe that some parents can't be as involved as they like because of circumstances beyond their control. Fund programs where kids can go and be with someone in a healthy environment that ALSO offers tutoring services for those that are struggling (but gives kids a snack and some down time too) after school.

I think that parents have to have SOME level of involvement too. Offer parents of every grade level the ability to track their child's progress online. Have the teacher post every assignment online the day it is assigned so parents can access it if they choose. I think that ALONE would be a benefit.

Give students a better environment to succeed, give them the tools they need, and give parents the ability to help keep their kids on track, but also make sure teachers are held to account too.

[charsace]

The problem is that the school is a hood school. That's the problem. These schools need real security. When I was in school you didn't want anyone else to know that you actually did the school work. And I would imagine that things have only gotten worse since the 90's with gangs in these schools and what not. I hate to say it, but these schools need better security, strict dress codes and whatever else it would take to turn them around. They also need more money put into them.

[Zhengi]

Then you have shit like the City turning down $200M for a philanthropist who wanted to have that money all go to building new charter schools, but the city rejected it due to pressure from the teacher's unions.

Outstanding. Teachers only care about the kids. *slow clap*

[cousins]

A lack of funding, and bigger problems at home can do that. Watch everyone just blame the kids.

[Utako]

What will happen to these people when they graduate high school?

Military for most of them, I'm sure.

Drugs, back-alley prostitution, crime for others.

[Htown]

You people make me sick.

You are so invested in preserving this mental fiction that there is no systemic or societal problem that disadvantages black people in the United States, that your immediate reaction to a school with these types of failure rates is to blame the kids and blame their parents.

It couldn't possibly be the school, it must be because black kids or black parents are lazy or stupid or don't care about education or bettering themselves. Because that's really what you're talking about when you say "well there's plenty of blame to go around" or some such nonsense. We're not the idiots you think we are.

Let's drop the fucking pretense. I'm sick of dancing around this shit.

By the way do you see the youtube comments on the video? Top ones:



And you know what? I actually like those comments more than the bullshit that's being spouted in this thread. At least those idiots are open and honest about what they're actually thinking and feeling.

Your veneer of civility isn't fooling anyone.

Fuck off.

[RubxQub]

Time to call in the expert:

[YoungBlade]

In 2011, 90 percent of Highland Park students failed the reading portion, 97 percent failed the math section, and 100 percent failed the social studies and science portions.

Holy. Shit.
I mean, I believe the Science portion, but reading? Really? Social Studies? Come on.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Outstanding. Teachers only care about the kids. *slow clap*

Charter Schools often fucking suck ass. Philadelphia has proved that quite well. It was the right move.

Most likely some guy who jerks off to Milton Friedman (whose not bad at all) in the bathroom while check dailypaulist.com

[cousins]

This is coming from someone from Louisiana.

hahaha, well at least you aren't saying this in mississippi

[teruterubozu]

I think that parents have to have SOME level of involvement too. Offer parents of every grade level the ability to track their child's progress online. Have the teacher post every assignment online the day it is assigned so parents can access it if they choose. I think that ALONE would be a benefit. Give students a better environment to succeed, give them the tools they need, and give parents the ability to help keep their kids on track, but also make sure teachers are held to account too.

That's assuming they can afford internet access.

The problem is that parents who can do something about it, usually move out of the neighborhood.

[cousins]

You people make me sick. You are so invested in preserving this mental fiction that there is no systemic or societal problem that disadvantages black people in the United States, that your immediate reaction to a school with these types of failure rates is to blame the kids and blame their parents. It couldn't possibly be the school, it must be because black kids or black parents are lazy or stupid or don't care about education or bettering themselves. Because that's really what you're talking about when you say "well there's plenty of blame to go around" or some such nonsense. We're not the idiots you think we are. Let's drop the fucking pretense. I'm sick of dancing around this shit. By the way do you see the youtube comments on the video? Top ones: And you know what? I actually like those comments more than the bullshit that's being spouted in this thread. At least those idiots are open and honest about what they're actually thinking and feeling. Your veneer of civility isn't fooling anyone. Fuck off.

I was thinking the same thing. I would highly recommend never reading the comments on youtube videos, though.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

By the way do you see the youtube comments on the video? Top ones:

Youtube comments aren't a good measure of anything except that racists, trolls, Ant-Semites, Ron Paul* supporters have very little else to do



*Don't think I'm saying that to be an ass, but look at anything that could involve Ron Paul seriously people spam the crap out of things to focus on their L. Ron.

[RatskyWatsky]

Military for most of them, I'm sure. Drugs, back-alley prostitution, crime for others.

That's a lot of prostitutes and criminals. :(

[rexor0717]

I really hope the 100% was rounded up from 99.6% or something because I don't want to believe there wasn't a single competent student. That is just sad.

[RubxQub]

Race card post

You're literally the first person to mention the word "black" in this thread, dude.

...or is that your point?

[V_Arnold]

I think the answer has to be that everyone is failing these kids. The teachers aren't getting through. The parents may not be able to be involved enough living in poverty (more likely to have longer hours, more likely to have multiple jobs, etc). In addition the students probably feel like they're in a hopeless environment so they're more likely to give up. I think the way you fix this... frankly I don't think you CAN fix it all at once, some of the older kids may be unreachable at this point. But you have to start young. First step, any teacher that has a class full of non-proficient students should be monitored more closely to make sure he or she isn't the problem. Second, I think that more funding should be given NOT to the teachers or the schools alone but to after school programs. I believe that some parents can't be as involved as they like because of circumstances beyond their control. Fund programs where kids can go and be with someone in a healthy environment that ALSO offers tutoring services for those that are struggling (but gives kids a snack and some down time too) after school. I think that parents have to have SOME level of involvement too. Offer parents of every grade level the ability to track their child's progress online. Have the teacher post every assignment online the day it is assigned so parents can access it if they choose. I think that ALONE would be a benefit. Give students a better environment to succeed, give them the tools they need, and give parents the ability to help keep their kids on track, but also make sure teachers are held to account too.

These are great ideas. Also, I think that it is about time when society needs to look at classes as classes and not a bunch of individuals stuck together for a few years. There needs to be better incentives for the students to take it seriously, to not fuck around and pick on those that seem to focus and actually want to learn. Give rewards to class averages when passed, make sure that it is not just a few kid doing okay and others horribly then call it a day. Have someone watch over these kids and make sure they are not creating a hostile environment for themselves (hell, I would think that even higher standing schools need to implement a system like that).

[Veezy]

You people make me sick. You are so invested in preserving this mental fiction that there is no systemic or societal problem that disadvantages black people in the United States, that your immediate reaction to a school with these types of failure rates is to blame the kids and blame their parents. It couldn't possibly be the school, it must be because black kids or black parents are lazy or stupid or don't care about education or bettering themselves. Because that's really what you're talking about when you say "well there's plenty of blame to go around" or some such nonsense. We're not the idiots you think we are. Let's drop the fucking pretense. I'm sick of dancing around this shit. By the way do you see the youtube comments on the video? Top ones: And you know what? I actually like those comments more than the bullshit that's being spouted in this thread. At least those idiots are open and honest about what they're actually thinking and feeling. Your veneer of civility isn't fooling anyone. Fuck off.

Yup. Ready fun little statistic folks?

This is as of 2000.

Race
One race 929229 97.68%
White 116599 12.26%
Black or African American 775772 81.55%
American Indian and Alaska Native 3140 0.33%
Asian 9268 0.97%
Asian indian 2827 0.3%
Chinese 912 0.1%
Filipino 951 0.1%
Japanese 188 0.02%
Korean 217 0.02%
Vietnamese 393 0.04%
Other Asian 3780 0.4%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander 251 0.03%
Native Hawaiian 46 0%
Guamanian or Chamorro 45 0%
Samoan 64 0.01%
Other Pacific Islander 96 0.01%
Some other race 24199 2.54%
Two or more races 22041 2.32%


OVER EIGHTY PERCENT BLACK IN DETROIT. Come on folks, at what point are we going to stop pretending that this something we can just pawn off on the parents from our PCs in our suburban homes.

[Gaborn]

That's assuming they can afford internet access. The problem is that parents who can do something about it, usually move out of the neighborhood.

Sure, I'm not saying that's an ideal catchall answer, it would help though.

[kirblar]

Hey, right up the street from work. Here are the main culprits: Parental involvement, or lack thereof.

And if the parents' reading level isn't any better?

These problems don't just magically appear.

[cousins]

You're literally the first person to mention the word "black" in this thread, dude.

edit:my bad.

[JGS]

I generally am skeptical about charter schools, but in cases where the only option is a sucky school, they should certainly be an option.

[Veezy]

And if the parents' reading level isn't any better? These problems don't just magically appear.

As I said, if mommy and/or daddy (single parent homes) can't read that good either what are they supposed to do for their kids?

But hey, they're just not working hard enough.

[Mac the KNife]

Do you spend a lot of time in Detroit? I live pretty damn close to it but the only time I've ever down there is for the occasional hockey game. Seems like an interesting place, would like to spend more time down there but I'm not exactly sure what I'd do. Cruising around the neighborhoods doesn't seem like the greatest idea.

I live in Warren, off of 8 mile in what I'd consider to be a pretty good neighborhood. I work in Detroit quite often, usually downtown, but last year a documentary project brought me into some of Detroit's worst areas. Little islands of civilization exist around a vast sea of broken-down, burnt-out vacant homes and buildings. This website shows a bit of what I'm talking about as I would certainly not recommend cruising through the neighborhoods of Detroit.

The Now & Then of Cass Tech is incredible.

I met some good people in college this last year from the east side of the state that swear Detroit isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Still don't believe them to this day. :p

While all major cities have their bad areas, the sheer size of the city puts Detroit in a class of it's own. I'd recommend the Downtown to just about anyone, however, it's a fairly safe place with plenty to do.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

As I said, if mommy and/or daddy (single parent homes) can't read that good either what are they supposed to do for their kids? But hey, they're just not working hard enough.

Maybe they should not have kids and focus on improving themselves?

[RubxQub]

oh shut the fuck up

Help me understand what you guys are freaking out about again? You're upset because no one is painting this as a race issue...but you think they all are they just aren't saying it?

Where the hell did race come from?!

[Gaborn]

oh shut the fuck up

How exactly does telling someone to shut the fuck up help in this discussion?

[Zhengi]

Charter Schools often fucking suck ass. Philadelphia has proved that quite well. It was the right move. Most likely some guy who jerks off to Milton Friedman (whose not bad at all) in the bathroom while check dailypaulist.com

Meh, I don't see how 10% literacy rate is an impressive enough output to shun any help that the city needs. It's not like those teachers are keeping the money away from the city because of the sake of the kids.

[cousins]

Help me understand what you guys are freaking out about again? You're upset because no one is painting this as a race issue...but you think they all are they just aren't saying it? Where the hell did race come from?!

It came from the fact that this is a racial issue. Are you naive enough to think that this shit would be allowed to happen if the school was 90% white?

[SquiddyCracker]

I thought it was a 10% illiteracy rate, which is pretty bad in a western country, but that it's actually a 90% illiteracy rate is mind-bogglingly insane.