[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The nuclear defense force is scary. The protesters have their minds right. Every nuclear plant opening should be met with an official equal commitment to replacing it with a clean renewable source.

Science can be a scary thing to those who don't understand it.

[rpmurphy]

The nuclear defense force is scary. The protesters have their minds right. Every nuclear plant opening should be met with an official equal commitment to replacing it with a clean renewable source.

I'm pretty sad.
- Setting back the advancement of nuclear power technology to replace the aging reactors around the world.
- Increased reliance on fossil fuels: coal, oil, and natural gas. Because of them, we will continue to deal with everyday loss of human life, environmental destruction and contamination.
- Increased reliance on low efficiency, alternative sources of power which will take a long time to scale up to meet modern demand, and thus slow down efforts like the adoption of electric vehicles and mass transportation which rely on centralized power sources.

[thespot84]

for those complaining about nuclear waste, current public private partnerships COULD allow for the safe 'storage' of waste materials for thousands of the years, think Yucca Mountain.

Secondly, there are companies working on numerous new and safer nuclear innovations, like modular reactors and LTFRs (Liquid salts, that have no meltdown risk, for instance), and Bill Gates invested in a tech that USES NUCLEAR WASTE from our current reactors to create less and less fissionable material until it's all used up.

Nuclear waste is a headache at the moment, but to think that once it's created it's completely unmanageable and will ruin everything forever is just a bit myopic.

EDIT: Sorry I meant Yucca Mountain as an example only of how geologically waste can be stored. It was an example of how NOT to approach the political process, since there wasn't stakeholder inclusion, unlike in places like Europe.

[Zissou]

The "only 300 death" talk is misleading. I don't think many of you have a clue how devastating the Fukushima desaster is for the country. 150.000 people have been relocated. The incident will cost Japan hundreds and hundreds of billion $. Somehow they survived the recent months with all their nuclear reactors shut down... it's the same fearmongering that took place in Germany, "OMG when they shut down the plants we'll have power shortages!!"; in the end France had to import energy from Germany because their nuclear plant couldn't run at full power because of low tide.

Where I live in Japan, there are periods of scheduled blackouts at different times of the day during the summer due to electricity shortages because the plants are shut down. There is a very real power shortage now.

[Purkake4]

Where I live in Japan, there are periods of scheduled blackouts at different times of the day during the summer due to electricity shortages because the plants are shut down. There is a very real power shortage now.

Yup, I remember all the BBC stories about rolling blackout over large areas. That's the alternative here at the moment.

[MyAbsolution]

I'm a little surprised at there being so many nuclear proponents on gaf. I'd rather they developed and researched new clean renewable resources (better solar tech for ex) than nuclear. Not sure why everyone is jumping onto the 'fact' that "They need coal and gas now!".

Depending on who you ask as this is up to debate, the world's supply of uranium could be pretty much exhausted in an 100 years. "Shutting Down" shitty old Nuclear Reactors is also NOT an easy task. Takes decades (Look at Germany).

Anyone else seen this feature David Suzuki did? I suggest a watch. It goes through all the problems of nuclear, how the disaster effected the the environment and surrounding areas... and includes a look at new technologies being developed.

http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/epi...japan-311.html

[SatelliteOfLove]

And TEPCO slinks away less scathed...

I'm a little surprised at there being so many nuclear proponents on gaf. I'd rather they developed and researched new clean renewable resources (better solar tech for ex) than nuclear. Not sure why everyone is jumping onto the 'fact' that "They need coal and gas now!". Depending on who you ask as this is up to debate, the world's supply of uranium could be pretty much exhausted in an 100 years. "Shutting Down" shitty old Nuclear Reactors is also NOT an easy task. Takes decades (Look at Germany). Anyone else seen this feature David Suzuki did? I suggest a watch. It goes through all the problems of nuclear, how the disaster effected the the environment and surrounding areas... and includes a look at new technologies being developed. http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/epi...japan-311.html

I buy a new house/car/bed before I sell the old one.

[XMonkey]

I'm a little surprised at there being so many nuclear proponents on gaf. I'd rather they developed and researched new clean renewable resources (better solar tech for ex) than nuclear. Not sure why everyone is jumping onto the 'fact' that "They need coal and gas now!".

Because we can do multiple things at once? Solar doesn't work great everywhere on Earth (and it's not nearly efficient enough yet) and no one is going to want to blanket miles and miles of available space with solar panels (same goes for wind turbines) to make up for the ever-increasing energy needs of mankind.

Depending on who you ask as this is up to debate, the world's supply of uranium could be pretty much exhausted in an 100 years. "Shutting Down" shitty old Nuclear Reactors is also NOT an easy task. Takes decades (Look at Germany).

It's a good thing we've got Thorium reactor designs making a lot of headway in recent years. China and India will lead the way on that. In short, running out of uranium is not a problem. For a lot more information, see here: http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf75.html

[MyAbsolution]

Because we can do multiple things at once? Solar doesn't work great everywhere on Earth (and it's not nearly efficient enough yet) and no one is going to want to blanket miles and miles of available space with solar panels (same goes for wind turbines) to make up for the ever-increasing energy needs of mankind.

Good to hear about the uranium. Although im still not ok with nuclear, I'd rather not have a contaminated zone or take the chance.

And solar isn't very efficient right now. I think its because we use silicon based chips? Surely we can develop something better :) Look at the links you provided me for helping solve uranium depletion.

[Purkake4]

When we run out of uranium, we can just use up the nuke supply, everyone's happy. Plus, isn't US using old Soviet nukes for like a significant percentage of its nuclear fuel?

EDIT: Link

[XMonkey]

Good to hear about the uranium. Although im still not ok with nuclear, I'd rather not have a contaminated zone or take the chance. And solar isn't very efficient right now. I think its because we use silicon based chips? Surely we can develop something better :) Look at the links you provided me for helping solve uranium depletion.

Don't get me wrong, I think solar and a few other renewables are very promising but I just think we need to be rational and look at all possible solutions and nuclear is developing very well. It's a shame we still have to put up with so many reactors based on old designs, but the future outlook is promising once we can move past those old designs. People live in all sorts of environments around the Earth and there really isn't going to be one end-all solution to satisfying their energy needs (well, possibly fusion, but we need something to use while we get there).

[Xeke]

We need to move on the Microwave Power Plant.

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Where I live in Japan, there are periods of scheduled blackouts at different times of the day during the summer due to electricity shortages because the plants are shut down. There is a very real power shortage now.

There haven't been scheduled blackouts in Japan or at least northern Japan Tepco serviced areas since early last summer. Even during that period energy conservation was incredibly successful, even beyond expectations. The blackouts weren't even neccessary.

I haven't read or heard about any mandatory rolling blackouts (keikaku teiden) for this year although they have been warned that they could happen if peak demand goes beyond a certian point for southern prefectures serviced by KEPCO. At the moment they are just barely meeting their demand which really is good enough even considering the conservative request from the government for power conservation in that region compared to what limit was put on the Tepco service area last year. Heck those percentages of power that KEPCO has been quoted to be able to facilitate are based on 2010 numbers during the hottest summer on record for all of Japan. Japan is a much different place now after 3/11 when it comes to being smart about how to use electricity although improvements can be made...

There aren't power shortages but there could be at peak demand times primarily during the hottest time of the day between 2-4pm. It's not like Japan is suffering completely. I have confidence that the southrn Japanese will conserve and make it through the summer without any need for mandatory rolling blackouts.

[FStop7]

Where I live in Japan, there are periods of scheduled blackouts at different times of the day during the summer due to electricity shortages because the plants are shut down. There is a very real power shortage now.

There haven't been scheduled blackouts in Japan or at least northern Japan Tepco serviced areas since early last summer. Even during that period energy conservation was incredibly successful, even beyond expectations. The blackouts weren't even neccessary. I haven't read or heard about any mandatory rolling blackouts (keikaku teiden) for this year although they have been warned that they could happen if peak demand goes beyond a certian point for southern prefectures serviced by KEPCO. At the moment they are just barely meeting their demand which really is good enough even considering the conservative request from the government for power conservation in that region compared to what limit was put on the Tepco service area last year. Heck those percentages of power that KEPCO has been quoted to be able to facilitate are based on 2010 numbers during the hottest summer on record for all of Japan. Japan is a much different place now after 3/11 when it comes to being smart about how to use electricity although improvements can be made... There aren't power shortages but there could be at peak demand times primarily during the hottest time of the day between 2-4pm. It's not like Japan is suffering completely. I have confidence that the southrn Japanese will conserve and make it through the summer without any need for mandatory rolling blackouts.

Well, I'd like to know which of these statements is accurate...

[iidesuyo]

Where I live in Japan, there are periods of scheduled blackouts at different times of the day during the summer due to electricity shortages because the plants are shut down. There is a very real power shortage now.

Though your argument has been put in perspective by another Japanese GAF member, my opinion: right now there are two western countries who have recently faced energy shortages: France and Japan (different reasons)

And both because of their overreliance on nuclear power. And then comes the pro-nuclear crowd and declares that countries who reject nuclear power will face energy problems? That's beyond stupid.

[DXPett1]

On the topic of Nuclear waste: The Verge - Wasteland: the 50-year battle to entomb our toxic nuclear remains

[Natetan]

I totally think they are overreacting. I can't stand this kind of NO! Protesting. What is your suggestion to make up the 25% difference? That's a huge amount of power to just cut off from an economy already declining in competitiveness.

You want to replace it with shale gas? I'm sure Americans would love that with all the problems they've has with it.

Basically I think they should turn them all back on again, and put nuclear as the first source of power to go, if they really want to go no nuclear. Renewables can't cover 25% any time soon, and there will have to be huge strides made towards eliminating their variability. Solar can help, wind has had a terrible history, geothermal has a lot of potential but the plebs opposed geothermal before too, Gah!, hydro is pretty much maxed out at this point. If smart grid and power storage can take off to take the edge off renewables, then we can take the nuclear reactors offline as we can make up for the difference. Taking them all offline is economic suicide.

Anyway, it must feel very self satisfying saying NO TO NUKES as you cripple the economic ability for this country to pay your retirement pension. It makes no sense

[Upsidedown Fuji]

I am having lunch right now so I was able to pull up a simple wikipedia entry titled Setsuden (electricity conservation). I can post additional articles from other sources after work if necessary. But my point is that Japan hasn't and probably won't need to ever repeat the mandatory rolling blackouts that were imposed by TEPCO after the 3/11 triple disaster. Japan has proven it can cope even with less than optimal supply levels. This should ring equally true for southern Japan serviced by KEPCO who has announced that their supply will be tighter than last year due to most of their reactors being off.

Success and Impact Japan faced no power outages for the duration of the summer campaign, which was a relative success. Compared to last year, energy usage during peak hours fell around 20%, with max usage falling from 60 gigawatts to 49 gigawatts.[5][11] The government energy restrictions were originally meant to end on September 22, but due to cooler weather conditions in August and less need for air conditioning, they were instead ended in the beginning of September ahead of schedule .[14] There are no plans to place energy restrictions for the summer 2012

[Shouta]

Well, I'd like to know which of these statements is accurate...

Assuming what Zissou saying is actually happening, then it's likely that rolling blackouts are occurring in certain areas but aren't being announced widely like on the news. Which would make sense because the Japanese media is somewhat pathetic. There weren't any rolling blackouts announced after last summer and until the time I left in December. It may have occurred but it wasn't mentioned at all in the news.

There are a bunch of stupid issues with power in Japan that don't include the actual sources of it. The infrastructure being a total mess is one of those. I really don't know why they haven't bothered to rectify that east/west power issue in the country.

Anyway, nuclear power is going to be needed in the long term. There's no doubt about that. It's just cleaning TEPCO up and then getting better safety protocols and updating the lines are needed before going full tilt again as Upsidedown has said. They can survive without it for now but if they expect to make the country economically healthy again, it'll something they'll have to deal with until better technology comes along.

[mantidor]

Science can be a scary thing to those who don't understand it.

It really boils down to this, coal and oil, quite literally, show their effect when things go wrong, nuclear gone wrong is magic rays no one sees and can be stored in certain things, but not in all, so is not like cleaning an oil spill. As far as most people goes, is magic.

Which is problematic, overall I would not use nuclear plants when possible, but I really don't see many viable alternatives for a country like Japan. Wind and solar energy could easily count for visual pollution, and is not nearly as efficient. In my country fortunately we have many rivers, which give us lots of hydroelectric power, which is mostly clean and efficient, but even then it does have ecological impact, you can't just flood a place, even the weather changes just because you do it.

Obtaining energy is just not a simple thing, and always harms our environment in some way, but we are just too dependent on it, there's really not a simple solution, is not like Japan can build wind farms and be done with it, and we need energy now, no city can wait until important scientific advancements are made.

[Natetan]

There are a bunch of stupid issues with power in Japan that don't include the actual sources of it. The infrastructure being a total mess is one of those. I really don't know why they haven't bothered to rectify that east/west power issue in the .

Another impotant point. Hokkaido for example is not even connected to the other utilities. It's also pretty uncommon for utilities to sell power outside of their regional monopoly. Hokkaido Is also where some of the best wind power resources are. So you can't just build a bunch of wind up there and think everything is fine. It is prett amazing that they never connected Hokkaido and tohoku electric. I mean it just seems so easy to do.

There's been some talk about breaking off the power distribution from the utilities to help lower costs. What we really need is to get away from the utility monopolies. It just keeps prices high. Getting rid of nuclear in one blow is stupid. Just because residents don't experience rolling blackouts, doesn't mean businesses aren't suffering from changing work shifts and increasing power prices and therefore reduced global competitiveness.

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Assuming what Zissou saying is actually happening, then it's likely that rolling blackouts are occurring in certain areas but aren't being announced widely like on the news. Which would make sense because the Japanese media is somewhat pathetic. There weren't any rolling blackouts announced after last summer and until the time I left in December. It may have occurred but it wasn't mentioned at all in the news. There are a bunch of stupid issues with power in Japan that don't include the actual sources of it. The infrastructure being a total mess is one of those. I really don't know why they haven't bothered to rectify that east/west power issue in the country. Anyway, nuclear power is going to be needed in the long term. There's no doubt about that. It's just cleaning TEPCO up and then getting better safety protocols and updating the lines are needed before going full tilt again as Upsidedown has said. They can survive without it for now but if they expect to make the country economically healthy again, it'll something they'll have to deal with until better technology comes along.

Yep. I agree nuclear is necessary for now at least. It's not life or death crucial but it's not dissapearing over night even if the reactors across Japan were banned forever. There's still decades of slow decomission and transport of nuclear waste offsite before nuclear would be gone from Japan for good. The most helpful thing Japan can do is work hard to keep their government honest and transparent and keep the electric suppliers honest. Two huge tasks that are seemingly impossible at the moment if the recent doings of PM Noda and KEPCO (owner/operator of the first nuclear reactors to be restarted since May 2012) are any indicator of this. :/

As for the blackouts the other poster above mentioned, I really don't know. It could be local as Shouta mentioned. The fact that the blackouts werern't mentioned in national news is a good indicator that it probably was a local issue and may not have been even related to power supply issues. I know for sure that rolling blackouts would be huge news for the media here to give meaning to all the energy manufacturers doom and gloom claims that they won't be able to supply enough power to their regions. I just don't see this happening.

[SmartBase]

HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Compared to where I am and have been, yeah, it's cheap. Anyway, that's beside the point.

[marvelharvey]

As for the blackouts the other poster above mentioned, I really don't know. It could be local as Shouta mentioned. The fact that the blackouts werern't mentioned in national news is a good indicator that it probably was a local issue and may not have been even related to power supply issues. I know for sure that rolling blackouts would be huge news for the media here to give meaning to all the energy manufacturers doom and gloom claims that they won't be able to supply enough power to their regions. I just don't see this happening.

Sadly I work too much to watch the news... but are the rolling blackouts we've had this summer going unreported? It's not as if it's a secret or anything. I've even got a little guide that tells the exact time each day when a blackout will hit my area.

[Mr_Moogle]

Does anybody else think its insane that people are pushing the anti-nuclear agenda when were living in a world running out of fossil fuels?

[Gentleman Jack]

The nuclear defense force is scary.

Not nearly as scary as someone who enters a thread, shows zero evidence of reading or comprehending differing viewpoints before balling them up with a dismissive label.

[Hoo-doo]

Nuclear power isn't the problem. Outdated, poorly-maintained nuclear plants are the problem. They should rally against the latter, since they'll need the former for the time being.

This exactly.

[Surface of Me]

Why don't we just shoot nuclear waste into space?

[Upsidedown Fuji]

Sadly I work too much to watch the news... but are the rolling blackouts we've had this summer going unreported? It's not as if it's a secret or anything. I've even got a little guide that tells the exact time each day when a blackout will hit my area.

May I ask what region you live in? The only reason I say it isn't in the news is that I live in central Japan, between Shizuoka, Nagano, and Tokyo. I watch FNN, TBS, and my local affiliate stations and it really hasn't been reported. If it is really happening in your area on a regular basis, then it should be reported on more. I'm not saying it doesn't absolutely happen but it may not be happening on a scale large enough for other regions to report on.

[XMonkey]

Why don't we just shoot nuclear waste into space?

Expensive as hell to do right now and there's the potential for a launch to go bad (since you'd have to do so many of them) and people would freak the fuck out over that. In the future this should be possible once we develop new technology to replace our (relatively) antiquated rocket systems.

Another alternative is to find ways to reuse the spent nuclear material. This is a likely solution going forward as well (and we currently have ways of reusing some of it).

[goldenpp72]

As someone who works in the nuclear power industry in the US, i'd say people should feel pretty safe about it, but I don't know how other countries run their sites.

[goomba]

Amazing how pro the US is about nuclear power ... Unless its for a Muslim country.

New zealand has been nuclear free since the 1980's. We don't allow nuclear ships into our harbors. The us still punish us trade wise for this (no free trade for u) and don't even let our ships enter pearl harbor for military exercises.

[Zissou]

Yep. I agree nuclear is necessary for now at least. It's not life or death crucial but it's not dissapearing over night even if the reactors across Japan were banned forever. There's still decades of slow decomission and transport of nuclear waste offsite before nuclear would be gone from Japan for good. The most helpful thing Japan can do is work hard to keep their government honest and transparent and keep the electric suppliers honest. Two huge tasks that are seemingly impossible at the moment if the recent doings of PM Noda and KEPCO (owner/operator of the first nuclear reactors to be restarted since May 2012) are any indicator of this. :/ As for the blackouts the other poster above mentioned, I really don't know. It could be local as Shouta mentioned. The fact that the blackouts werern't mentioned in national news is a good indicator that it probably was a local issue and may not have been even related to power supply issues. I know for sure that rolling blackouts would be huge news for the media here to give meaning to all the energy manufacturers doom and gloom claims that they won't be able to supply enough power to their regions. I just don't see this happening.

My power company (Kepco) sent out postcards detailing how they would handle planned blackouts this summer(dividing people into one of six groups, each of which is assigned a 2.5 hour time slot to have no power). I got the feeling reading through it that it was pretty certain these were going to be an inevitability, but it may just be them being overly cautious and warning people even though the possibility is low. I guess we'll see how it pans out.

[Upsidedown Fuji]

My power company (Kepco) sent out postcards detailing how they would handle planned blackouts this summer(dividing people into one of six groups, each of which is assigned a 2.5 hour time slot to have no power). I got the feeling reading through it that it was pretty certain these were going to be an inevitability, but it may just be them being overly cautious and warning people even though the possibility is low. I guess we'll see how it pans out.

Ok, I was aware of that much. The government gave all the major companies warning that they had to alert their service areas of possible blackouts during the highest load days. So a mandatory blackout hasn't happened yet but there's a looming possibility that one could occur and they have gridded off the areas that they will cut power to in sequence like what happened back in summer of 2011 in TPECO's service area. I must have read your orignal post wrong or something. I thought you were actually experiencing blackouts already not just prepared for them.

Hopefully you won't need to use that card. If this year is anything like last year for Japanese when it comes to striving to conserve for the greater good, then you'll probably be fine.

Edit:
I really hope you don't go through mandatory rolling blackouts like I did back in 2011. They really do suck and can really mess up a day or night depending on when your shift is. I think the most frustrating part of 2011's was the fact that all of Tokyo was immune to it while they were the largest power consumers and didn't even conserve as much compared to the other service areas of TEPCO. At first I thought it was reasonable to make up for loss of power but as the days went by and it was obvious conservation was hitting its targets and thensome, it just became shameful.

[tci]

I understand their fear, but nuclear power is the future. No doubt about that. A lot more clean and efficient. Fossil fuel is outdated and destroys the environment with mining etc.

Today's nuclear tech is very reliable. Accidents happen because of old tech. France is one of the countries with quite clean nuclear power. If I remember correctly they are close to reducing the nuclear waste by a very large factor.

Hopefully Thorium reactors will make an impact soon.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/williamp...fire-possibly/

[thespot84]

Amazing how pro the US is about nuclear power ... Unless its for a Muslim country. New zealand has been nuclear free since the 1980's. We don't allow nuclear ships into our harbors. The us still punish us trade wise for this (no free trade for u) and don't even let our ships enter pearl harbor for military exercises.

Are you using the anecdotal consensus of american Gaffers to draw your conclusion that the US is PRO nuclear? Keep in mind that GAF tends to represent a small slice of America.

The less educated, less informed, and less tech savvy (and there are a lot) tend to be scared of the giant magic invisible energy boxes that are nuclear power plants. Three mile Island released as much radiation per person as I, living in Denver, get in a week from background radiation, but that coupled with Chernobyl effectively killed any popular support for nuclear in this country.

[goomba]

I understand their fear, but nuclear power is the future. No doubt about that. A lot more clean and efficient. Fossil fuel is outdated and destroys the environment with mining etc. Today's nuclear tech is very reliable. Accidents happen because of old tech. France is one of the countries with quite clean nuclear power. If I remember correctly they are close to reducing the nuclear waste by a very large factor. Hopefully Thorium reactors will make an impact soon. http://www.forbes.com/sites/williamp...fire-possibly/

Pretty arrogant to say accidents can't happen with current tech. The same was said about the old tech before the accidents. The titanic was said to be unsinkable. History has a way of showing up human arrogance .

[goomba]

Are you using the anecdotal consensus of american Gaffers to draw your conclusion that the US is PRO nuclear? Keep in mind that GAF tends to represent a small slice of America. The less educated, less informed, and less tech savvy (and there are a lot) tend to be scared of the giant magic invisible energy boxes that are nuclear power plants. Three mile Island released as much radiation per person as I, living in Denver, get in a week from background radiation, but that coupled with Chernobyl effectively killed any popular support for nuclear in this country.

No I'm perceiving the us is pro nuclear because they have lots of nuclear power plants, have used nuclear bombs on civilian populations and their foriegn policy punishes my country because we are nuclear free.

[marvelharvey]

May I ask what region you live in? The only reason I say it isn't in the news is that I live in central Japan, between Shizuoka, Nagano, and Tokyo. I watch FNN, TBS, and my local affiliate stations and it really hasn't been reported. If it is really happening in your area on a regular basis, then it should be reported on more. I'm not saying it doesn't absolutely happen but it may not be happening on a scale large enough for other regions to report on.

I'm in Osaka, 節電 area 4-H. I've a feeling the rolling blackouts affect the whole Kepco-area though, at least it seems that way according to their site (not that I looked at it for more that 10s).

[tci]

Pretty arrogant to say accidents can't happen with current tech. The same was said about the old tech before the accidents. The titanic was said to be unsinkable. History has a way of showing up human arrogance .

All I'm saying is that current tech is very reliable. When you consider the accident i Japan, it could have gone a lot worse. And that plant was built in the 70's or something.

[Alx]

Pretty arrogant to say accidents can't happen with current tech. The same was said about the old tech before the accidents.

You have to admit that what happened in Fukushima was a worst case scenario. The plant endured a magnitude 7 earthquake plus a Tsunami, and the damage could still be kept under relative control (it didn't blow up like Czernobyl anyway).
And it wasn't even a modern plant. Even if it's a major accident, I think it's reassuring on the current safety of the technology.

[BocoDragon]

You have to admit that what happened in Fukushima was a worst case scenario. The plant endured a magnitude 7 earthquake plus a Tsunami, and the damage could still be kept under relative control (it didn't blow up like Czernobyl anyway).

In terms of geological time, an earthquake like that is routine (and the big one was actually magnitude 9). Yeah, it's on a very long timescale, so you might say "the chances of it happening in my lifetime is remote", but any geologist will tell you that it WILL happen, so why not today? (or rather... why not March 2011 :P)

Yes, I admit that the one-two punch of earthquake then tsunami was kind of a freak accident.... but then again, tsunamis generally follow earthquakes.

There was nothing "freak" about this accident given a long timeframe... so therefore nuclear plants should account for them.... and frankly it should have always accounted for them... yes, even in the 70s they should have known better. This was a human error! Do we know better today? I guess we do, only because nature showed us. But "modern day tech" wouldn't have necessarily helped us with that decision on its own. Still the problem of human judgement!

[Alx]

If we're talking geological time, any discussion on the current choice of technology is meaningless. I have no doubt that in 100 years we will have completely different power sources than the current nuclear ones (or will be completely extinct). 100 years ago nuclear power sources didn't exist. 200 years ago power sources didn't exist at all.
Our whole civilization is a small blip on the radar, in geological timeframes.

[dIEHARD]

Imagine the energy alternatives we could have if there was no profit motive behind energy.

i can't be the only one who laughed at this.

[BocoDragon]

If we're talking geological time, any discussion on the current choice of technology is meaningless. I have no doubt that in 100 years we will have completely different power sources than the current nuclear ones (or will be completely extinct). 100 years ago nuclear power sources didn't exist. 200 years ago power sources didn't exist at all. Our whole civilization is a small blip on the radar, in geological timeframes.

That doesn't matter. In our small window of time that we have right now, whether that's our lifetime, or era, or the age of nuclear power, geologists tell us that at any moment, we could expect earthquakes of 9.0 and far beyond. Therefore we have to make sure our power plants can withstand that.

Where I live in Vancouver, there will be a massive earthquake expected at any time in the next 10,000 years. That doesn't mean we don't have to worry for thousands of years. That means that the earthquake could strike in 9999 years, or it could strike tomorrow, so what we build now, even if it's going to be gone in 50 years, has to reflect that.

[tci]

There was nothing "freak" about this accident given a long timeframe... so therefore nuclear plants should account for them.... and frankly it should have always accounted for them... yes, even in the 70s they should have known better. This was a human error! Do we know better today? I guess we do, only because nature showed us. But "modern day tech" wouldn't have necessarily helped us with that decision on its own. Still the problem of human judgement!

The plant was actually suppose to be closed. Court order from the Japanese government in 2006 (link). Because it was claimed that it would not withstand an earthquake.

Like you said, human error and not necessarily a problem with technology.

[Canis lupus]

We know Germany and Japan can be will be the first all green nations in the world. Last year I read that Germany wants to get 80% of its electricity out of green energy by 2060, if they can accomplish this they will have the 2nd Wirtschaftswunder.

[BocoDragon]

The plant was actually suppose to be closed. Court order from the Japanese government in 2006 (link). Because it was claimed that it would not withstand an earthquake. Like you said, human error and not necessarily a problem with technology.

If these plants truly are designed with Science (tm), I have much less of a problem with them. It's the forces of capitalism, bureaucracy and even communism which have made such a mess of the technology.

[abusori]

Wishful thinking and paranoia don't make electricity.
People need to understand how stuff works before they go all out protesting it.

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I'm of the opinion that people who broadly support nuclear energy are in denial about the long term problems associated with waste disposal, frequently pointing to some undefined future solution, or even more disingenuously insinuating one currently exists. It's ironic that by and large they tend to adopt a posture of being "logical", unswayed by supposed superstitions about what will become of waste in 100, 1000, 10,000, or 100,000 years- while simultaneously exhibiting blind faith in mankind's capacity to plan for every possible contingency over such vast periods of time, or else miraculously engineer a permanent solution. And though no such solution has yet been forthcoming, people still champion the creation of new nuclear facilities.

The cold hard reality is that we don't have an engineering solution that addresses the management of these materials over spans of time greater than the whole of recorded human history, and that's not even the half-life on a lot of nuclear waste. There's no historical reason to believe we have the ability to adequately predict unforeseen geological events, social upheavals, or other sweeping changes that could affect containment over centuries, millennia, or longer. Yet every time there is another nuclear disaster it's the same old song and dance about how such a thing is merely the result of outdated tech, as if current tech will surely prove infallible in the face of the next huge unforeseen disaster, whatever form it might take.

Every safeguard or redundancy seems sufficient until it's proven otherwise. But in the historically brief period that nuclear energy has been used we've already had several disasters whose effect still can't be fully quantified. Yet people unfortunately choose to view the aftermath of nuclear accidents as only minor inconveniences or else acceptable collateral for the ability to feed our short term creature comforts. One need only imagine the potential consequences if there was ever a global crisis where our infrastructure was truly crippled, not that ardent supporters of nuclear energy seem interested in stretching their imagination past a manufactured certainly in our ability to future proof against all odds.