NeoGAF

crimsonheadGCN · 09:50 PM

And the official response comes in:

Originally Posted by GamesIndustry:

Although not directly related to Star Wars: The Old Republic producer Rich Vogel's departure today, EA has confirmed that layoffs at developer BioWare Austin have been ongoing since it was announced that the studio would be undergoing restructuring and staff reductions back in May.

A spokesperson for BioWare told GamesIndustry International, "As announced in May and detailed at E3, the BioWare Austin team is refining Star Wars: The Old Republic to continue to grow the game and the service."

"As with the launch of any MMO, the size and skillset of the teams needed to maintain the game is different than the ones that built it. Starting in May, there have been staff reductions in the BioWare Austin studio. Some people have been platooned to other projects at BioWare Austin and EA SPORTS/Austin. Others have been released - qualifying personnel receive severance and outplacement assistance."

"BioWare Austin is currently staffed to ensure the continued delivery of new, high quality game content for The Old Republic, and at a more frequent cadence. In the weeks ahead, we will announce plans for growing SWTOR with new content, new players and new ways to play."

Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...te-back-to-may

---

Note: Rich Vogel left a few weeks ago, prior to this round of layoffs.

Quote:

Amid reports that BioWare Austin is laying off staff today, Star Wars: The Old Republic's executive producer Rich Vogel has revealed to Gamasutra that he is no longer with the company.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...ff_reports.php

Confirmed by an employee who was fired today:

Quote:

Anyone know of a web developer position open in the Austin, TX area? Second round of layoffs at BioWare Austin and my name was on the list …

https://twitter.com/bmarshall0511/st...52966997823489

Kade · (07-17-2012, 05:52 PM)

Everything surrounding this game is crazy.

Bisnic · (07-17-2012, 05:53 PM)

The Force was clearly not with them.

DTKT · (07-17-2012, 05:54 PM)

Everyone must have known it was bound to happen right?

That studio was overstaffed and was specifically created to launch SWTOR. After the catastrophic failure it was, the studio had to downsize.

Aaron · (07-17-2012, 05:55 PM)

Originally Posted by DTKT:

Everyone must have known it was bound to happen right?

That studio was overstaffed and was specifically created to launch SWTOR. After the catastrophic failure it was, the studio had to downsize.

This is like the third time they've downsized, after saying before launch they would need a large staff to continue updates.

Nirolak · (07-17-2012, 05:56 PM)

Of the 39 active job postings for BioWare, a grand total of zero are for BioWare Austin, so this would not be surprising.

Hopefully the effected employees can find new jobs soon.

DTKT · (07-17-2012, 05:56 PM)

Originally Posted by Aaron:

This is like the third time they've downsized, after saying before launch they would need a large staff to continue updates.

That's was probably the plan if the game had actually performed as it was expected.

jred250 · (07-17-2012, 05:57 PM)

MMOs are the worst. AAA MMOs are on a whole other level.

Arpeggio23 · (07-17-2012, 05:57 PM)

Originally Posted by DTKT:

Everyone must have known it was bound to happen right?

That studio was overstaffed and was specifically created to launch SWTOR. After the catastrophic failure it was, the studio had to downsize.

Ugh. It's not a "catastrophic failure." SWTOR currently has the second-highest subscriber number of any MMO in North America, behind WoW.

Anticitizen One · (07-17-2012, 05:57 PM)

It wasn't a a "catastrophic failure" it just wasn't as big as wow which is what EA and wall street wanted.

crimsonheadGCN · (07-17-2012, 05:57 PM)

Maybe they'll go to Carbine Studios. I'm sure Carbine would love to get more developers onto Wildstar.

Nirolak · (07-17-2012, 05:59 PM)

Originally Posted by crimsonheadGCN:

Maybe they'll go to Carbine Studios. I'm sure Carbine would love to get more developers onto Wildstar.

Carbine has a grand total of 6 jobs open, so I don't think NCSoft is super psyched on that front right now.

ZeniMax Online has a ton of jobs open, but given their gigantic size, I don't think that's a great long term opportunity to stay hired...

Delusibeta · (07-17-2012, 06:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Arpeggio23:

Ugh. It's not a "catastrophic failure." SWTOR currently has the second-highest subscriber number of any MMO in North America, behind WoW.

Isn't that subscriber number shrinking at an alarming rate? Having a massive number of subscribers doesn't mean a lot if you can't keep them for any length of time.

SniperHunter · (07-17-2012, 06:00 PM)

Bioware needs to buy themselves back from EA, they haven't been a good studio under EA....

Ushojax · (07-17-2012, 06:00 PM)

They could have made 3 proper KOTOR sequels with the time and money it took to make TOR. What a waste.

BrokenSymmetry · (07-17-2012, 06:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Aaron:

This is like the third time they've downsized, after saying before launch they would need a large staff to continue updates.

Yes, to continue delivering even a fraction of the existing content as new content, with all story parts, voice acting, animation, etc. would require a very large staff remaining after release. Obviously, this didn't work out, as many had predicted. No MMO with large amounts of voice acting (Age of Conan, Everquest 2, TOR) has been able to sustain that.

kayos90 · (07-17-2012, 06:01 PM)

Originally Posted by Arpeggio23:

Ugh. It's not a "catastrophic failure." SWTOR currently has the second-highest subscriber number of any MMO in North America, behind WoW.

That was at its highest and the decline of subscribers is at a fast rate. Cap doesn't mean anything at this point and neither is breaking records.

Bisnic · (07-17-2012, 06:02 PM)

Originally Posted by SniperHunter:

Bioware needs to buy themselves back from EA, they haven't been a good studio under EA....

It's nice to dream, but you can't just leave EA(or any publisher i bet) easily like that.

SniperHunter · (07-17-2012, 06:02 PM)

Originally Posted by Bisnic:

It's nice to dream, but you can't just leave EA(or any publisher i bet) easily like that.

Bungie did it.

truly101 · (07-17-2012, 06:02 PM)

Just think of the money they squandered from making this an MMO versus just a regular offline RPG like the first two. I don't know how you get to be that stupid.

xenist · (07-17-2012, 06:03 PM)

I enjoyed SWTOR a lot for the first month and change so I can't write it off completely. But it was such a colossally bad idea. And one that I believe negatively affected Bioware's other games, too.

Vamphuntr · (07-17-2012, 06:04 PM)

Originally Posted by truly101:

Just think of the money they squandered from making this an MMO versus just a regular offline RPG like the first two. I don't know how you get to be that stupid.

They got greedy and wanted a slice of the WoW pie...

Metalic · (07-17-2012, 06:04 PM)

TOR was a bad idea, I don't think anyone is capable of killing wow except wow it self. Or maybe GW2

But hey, good luck to them.

DTKT · (07-17-2012, 06:04 PM)

Originally Posted by SniperHunter:

Bioware needs to buy themselves back from EA, they haven't been a good studio under EA....

Impossible. Like it was mentionned before, Bioware never had the fabled "5-7 million copies" game. They are in no position to demand or dictate their level of involvement with EA.

Honestly, in it's current state, Bioware has now become a name that EA is associating with all their franchises. My fear is that if Bioware games still "underperform", the RPG core in Edmonton will be relocated and all that will be left is the name.

truly101 · (07-17-2012, 06:05 PM)

Originally Posted by xenist:

I enjoyed SWTOR a lot for the first month and change so I can't write it off completely. But it was such a colossally bad idea. And one that I believe negatively affected Bioware's other games, too.

I will totally scapegoat TOR for the abortion that DAII turned out to be. Someone has to pay for that shit.

GlamFM · (07-17-2012, 06:05 PM)

I hope Bioware finally sees that they are on the wrong track since Mass Effect 2 ( Some people would even say since Mass 1 when they joined EA ) and will at least try to get back to what they were.

I still can´t get over how bad Mass Effect 3 was - and I´m not even talking about the ending.
My biggest disappointment this gen. ( And Dragon Age 2 of course... )

Calen · (07-17-2012, 06:06 PM)

Originally Posted by BrokenSymmetry:

Yes, to continue delivering even a fraction of the existing content as new content, with all story parts, voice acting, animation, etc. would require a very large staff remaining after release. Obviously, this didn't work out, as many had predicted. No MMO with large amounts of voice acting (Age of Conan, Everquest 2, TOR) has been able to sustain that.

We did work that out long before EQ2 actually shipped. After that, new content had the most important stuff voiced and everything else was text only. I haven't worked there in many years but my understanding is they continue to operate like this.

I hate that studios keep having to learn this the hard way. Making an MMO is tough enough to start with, without tying VO shackles around your content teams' ankles. There's just no way to keep up with your players' consumption of the content.

crimsonheadGCN · (07-17-2012, 06:06 PM)

Confirmed by a former employee who was fired today:

Quote:

Anyone know of a web developer position open in the Austin, TX area? Second round of layoffs at BioWare Austin and my name was on the list …

https://twitter.com/bmarshall0511/st...52966997823489

Metalic · (07-17-2012, 06:07 PM)

Originally Posted by crimsonheadGCN:

Confirmed by a former employee who was fired today:

https://twitter.com/bmarshall0511/st...52966997823489

Oh no...

AOC83 · (07-17-2012, 06:08 PM)

Originally Posted by Arpeggio23:

Ugh. It's not a "catastrophic failure." SWTOR currently has the second-highest subscriber number of any MMO in North America, behind WoW.

Producing massive losses can be considered failure, and that was everything SWTOR did.

Dennis · (07-17-2012, 06:08 PM)

So TORtanic was a giant failure....why are developers so goddamn blind?

vaelic · (07-17-2012, 06:08 PM)

good thing the DRs got star wars tattoos!

LastNac · (07-17-2012, 06:08 PM)

Should have done a KotOR 3.

TheOddOne · (07-17-2012, 06:10 PM)

Originally Posted by GlamFM:

I hope Bioware finally sees that they are on the wrong track since Mass Effect 2 ( Some people would even say since Mass 1 when they joined EA ) and will at least try to get back to what they were.

I still can´t get over how bad Mass Effect 3 was - and I´m not even talking about the ending.
My biggest disappointment this gen. ( And Dragon Age 2 of course... )

The whole Elevation Partner deal was fucked. Ever since EA put their hand on Bioware they have been going in a downward spiral.

People have been leaving their main offices left and right, high up talented folk.

SniperHunter · (07-17-2012, 06:10 PM)

Originally Posted by DTKT:

Impossible. Like it was mentionned before, Bioware never had the fabled "5-7 million copies" game. They are in no position to demand or dictate their level of involvement with EA.

Honestly, in it's current state, Bioware has now become a name that EA is associating with all their franchises. My fear is that if Bioware games still "underperform", the RPG core in Edmonton will be relocated and all that will be left is the name.

good point, I have a feeling Bioware Edmonton is doomed :(

Barkley's Justice · (07-17-2012, 06:12 PM)

Behold! The "(un)sustainable" so-called "AAA game" industry!

Zefah · (07-17-2012, 06:12 PM)

I hate how TOR's failure has made everyone think that "MMORPGs cannot succeed" as if TOR failed solely because it was an MMORPG and was otherwise not at fault in any way.

TOR failed because it was a shitty game that got boring extremely quickly. It was a very bad MMORPG. That's why it failed.

Draxal · 06:15 PM

1. They don't add content fast enough. The whole server fiasco (initial server limits were way to small, and once people hit 50 ... and realized end game was pretty static ... alot of people quit ... and Old Republic end game depends on multiple people).

2. It's a problem just not facing TOR, Wow's dreadfully slow at adding content. Oddly enough, the only company that adds pve content pretty quickly is Tirion Worlds' Rift which is an extremely small company.

3. I'd have to disagree with Zefah, people consume content way too fast in all these MMO's, it's a problem facing every one of them. Unless there's a complete change game changer in MMO's, I see them flaming out like this. The Wow end game raid model isn't nearly as strong as it once was.

Interfectum · (07-17-2012, 06:13 PM)

Originally Posted by Arpeggio23:

Ugh. It's not a "catastrophic failure." SWTOR currently has the second-highest subscriber number of any MMO in North America, behind WoW.

It's a supremely catastrophic failure that will probably result in the resignation of their current CEO.

epmode · (07-17-2012, 06:15 PM)

Originally Posted by SniperHunter:

Bungie did it.

And now they're stuck making the same game for another decade.

Kinyou · (07-17-2012, 06:15 PM)

Why didn't they just make a new Knights of the old republic.....?

Zefah · (07-17-2012, 06:15 PM)

Originally Posted by Arpeggio23:

Ugh. It's not a "catastrophic failure." SWTOR currently has the second-highest subscriber number of any MMO in North America, behind WoW.

Oh, it's a catastrophic failure, all right. We have no idea what the current subscriber numbers are, by the way.

Also, "second-highest subscriber number of any MMO in North America, behind WoW" was a title that was once claimed by games like Age of Conand and Warhammer Online. Just look where those two are now.

HarryDemeanor · (07-17-2012, 06:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Kinyou:

Why didn't they just make a new Knights of the old republic.....?

They'd get sent another 1000 cupcakes asking for an extended cut.

Dennis · (07-17-2012, 06:16 PM)

Bethesda is next for the chopping block with Elder Scrolls Online.

They never learn.

MMOs are crap and only WoW and EVE makes sense.

Wallach · (07-17-2012, 06:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Kinyou:

Why didn't they just make a new Knights of the old republic.....?

They believed that this would have the potential to generate more profit in the long term. That's still possible, I suppose.

Draxal · (07-17-2012, 06:17 PM)

Originally Posted by Kinyou:

Why didn't they just make a new Knights of the old republic.....?

Because they have their own Space RPG which they control the IP (Mass Effect) that is infinitely cheaper, and have much more control over?

Kinyou · 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by HarryDemeanor:

They'd get sent another 1000 cupcakes asking for an extended cut.

Sounds like a win/win to me.

Originally Posted by Draxal:

Because they have their own Space RPG which they control the IP (Mass Effect) that is infinitely cheaper, and have much more control over?

Well if you follow that logic... then why make TOR?

Originally Posted by Wallach:

They believed that this would have the potential to generate more profit in the long term. That's still possible, I suppose.

Yeah, I guess in the end money is the answer. As always.

Bisnic · (07-17-2012, 06:18 PM)

Originally Posted by Kinyou:

Why didn't they just make a new Knights of the old republic.....?

EA wanted a piece of Activision/Blizzard's pie. I bet they regret that now.

Thankfully, they wont bother with a Dragon Age or Mass Effect MMO after that failure.

AOC83 · 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Barkley's Justice:

Behold! The "(un)sustainable" so-called "AAA game" industry!

The game didn´t bomb because it was AAA, it bombed because it was a shitty WoW ripoff that didn´t nearly reach the quality of its rolemodel in most aspects.

Nirolak · (07-17-2012, 06:19 PM)

Originally Posted by GlamFM:

I hope Bioware finally sees that they are on the wrong track since Mass Effect 2 ( Some people would even say since Mass 1 when they joined EA ) and will at least try to get back to what they were.

I still can´t get over how bad Mass Effect 3 was - and I´m not even talking about the ending.
My biggest disappointment this gen. ( And Dragon Age 2 of course... )

Business wise though Mass Effect 3 did the best. The only other comparable one is Dragon Age: Origins, but its five year development cycle cost a pretty insane amount by the end, and I can't imagine $35-$40 sales a week or two after launch helped revenue.

The market is reinforcing their direction on that franchise.

Dragon Age 2 was actually heavily punished though.