[DXB-KNIGHT]

Just like things got better in Egypt! Probably not.

Well Egyption Crowds threw Tomatos on Clinton's car and started cheering for Monica,

[SniperHunter]

Just like things got better in Egypt! Probably not.

Pretty much. I can't believe what's being happening in Egypt lately...

[Fularu]

Just like things got better in Egypt! Probably not.

Probably not? If the rebels grab power, it will be disastrous for the country and the region.

Syria was a secular entity with a great ethnic cohabitation. Non secular led Syria would be horrible for non Wahhabis.

[sflufan]

Secular led Syria would be horrible for non wahhabis.

You mean NON-secular led Syria.

[Fularu]

You mean NON-secular led Syria.

Yes, sorry

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Probably not? If the rebels grab power, it will be disastrous for the country and the region. Syria was a non secular entity with a great ethnic cohabitation. Secular led Syria would be horrible for non wahhabis.

That's like saying Yugoslavia had a great ethnic cohabitation, yes...but that's because Tito would bring the banhammer down on any ethnic and religious group who got restless, but in a fair and equitable manner. lol

Also Iranian lol's

1730: Iran's foreign minister has condemned the explosion, in a conversation with his counterpart in Damascus, Walid Muallem, Iranian state TV reports. Ali Akbar Salehi called for "an immediate end... to foreign interference and arms shipments... to Syria and the support of some regional and international parties for terrorist action," Irna news agency said. The minister said dialogue was the only answer to the violence.

[Forever]

Just like things got better in Egypt! Probably not.

They got better in Libya.

[el retorno]

Also Iranian lol's

This is after they admit to helping Assad...

[numble]

Yes, sorry

No wonder I kept getting confused when people kept saying this is a "secular war." Do people have a different definition of "secular" over there?

[Fularu]

That's like saying Yugoslavia had a great ethnic cohabitation, yes...but that's because Tito would bring the banhammer down on any ethnic and religious group who got restless, but in a fair and equitable manner. lol Also Iranian lol's

No, Syria had a very long history of various religious groups and ethnic groups living together in peace. Be it christians, muslims, jews, armenians and so on. The cohabitation wasn't a fabrication like Tito's

[Fularu]

No wonder I kept getting confused when people kept saying this is a "secular war." Do people have a different definition of "secular" over there?

It's a religious conflict at its core. Sorry for my improper use of the english term

[sflufan]

Tito was awesome! Perhaps the best thing ever to happen to the Southern Slavs!

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

No, Syria had a very long history of various religious groups and ethnic groups living together in peace. Be it christians, muslims, jews, armenians and so on. The cohabitation wasn't a fabrication like Tito's

I don't think the effects of how power has consolidated by the Assads for the Alwaites has been helping maintain that. But I'll defer to someone with on the ground/actual knowledge.

This sounds fun!

Lina Sinjab BBC News, Damascus is being taken on an official tour around Damascus. She tweets: "We can hear gunfire close to where we are standing in ‪#babtouma‬ ‪#Syria."

I don't think this is having the effect they wanted.

[Ether_Snake]

Probably not? If the rebels grab power, it will be disastrous for the country and the region. Syria was a secular entity with a great ethnic cohabitation. Non secular led Syria would be horrible for non Wahhabis.

US is preparing for an exit from the ME. Can't leave the playground in playable conditions for Russia and China:p

[sflufan]

The Free Syrian Army is claiming that this was NOT a suicide attack, but rather a remote controlled detonation.

In the same statement, the FSA said that "hopefully Bashar will be next."

[Cromat]

Probably not? If the rebels grab power, it will be disastrous for the country and the region. Syria was a secular entity with a great ethnic cohabitation. Non secular led Syria would be horrible for non Wahhabis.

Bashar should have reformed the country and made it into a secular democracy when he gained power, or at the very least at the start of the uprising.

The rebels seem to be a very mean bunch, not unlike the regime.
Well, maybe it will be for the best. The inevitable failure of political Islam might finally close the door on that terrible ideology.

[Jimothy]

I haven't really followed this Syria stuff, but is the gist that the rebels are essentially Islamic fundamentalists while the government is more liberal? Is that accurate?

[sflufan]

I haven't really followed this Syria stuff, but is the gist that the rebels are essentially Islamic fundamentalists while the government is more liberal? Is that accurate?

No, not in the least.

[Ether_Snake]

I haven't really followed this Syria stuff, but is the gist that the rebels are essentially Islamic fundamentalists while the government is more liberal? Is that accurate?

Ba'athism:

Ba'athism is based on principles of Arab nationalism, pan-Arabism, Arab socialism, as well as social progress. It is a secular ideology. A Ba'athist state supports socialist economics to a varying degree; Syria, a Ba'athist state, uses a centrally-planned state socialist economy while Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, followed a policy of capitalist growth led by the state. A Ba'athist state supports public ownership over parts of the economy but opposes the confiscation of private property. Socialism in Ba'athist ideology does not mean state socialism or economic equality, but modernisation; the only way to develop an Arab society which is truly free and united is by creating a socialist society first.

Instead of removing Saddam (or Bashar) and working with the Baath party, the US always seeks to wipe them out. It's always down with secularism, up with fundamentalism. With a good dose of destruction of infrastructure and social services (especially health care facilities, education, clean water and electricity). Women had to keep their heads uncovered in Iraqi universities, attend the same classes as the men. Ethnic conflicts kept to a minimum. Good luck with that now!

[VelvetMouth]

So let me get this straight, the rebels are conservative and will turn Syria into an Islamist state complete with burkas and restrictions on women?

[sflufan]

So let me get this straight, the rebels are conservative and will turn Syria into an Islamist state complete with burkas and restrictions on women?

Maybe, maybe not.

Anyone claims to know hasn't got a freakin' clue.

[Ether_Snake]

Maybe, maybe not. Anyone claims to know hasn't got a freakin' clue.

lol, I think we have enough cases that demonstrate that yes, this is what will happen, again.

Gotta hit the bottom before you can bounce.

[~Devil Trigger~]

I haven't really followed this Syria stuff, but is the gist that the rebels are essentially Islamic fundamentalists while the government is more liberal? Is that accurate?

thats a very shallow way of seeing things. Thats what people said about every Arab regime that fell during the Arab spring.

And I dont care what people say, ultimately Things ARE better in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt.

things are better in the sense that there's a better or a beginning of a system of accountability. They have SOMETHING to work on now as a nation. It almost dont matter who wins the first couple of elections, what matters is the strengths of the institutions they are building as a nation.

[Nevasleep]

Its like all these mideast dictators read from the same damn book. These assholes instead of truly bringing change in their respected countries, chose to kill their people to submission.... not working buddy. Their narcissistic attitude is whats killing them, they brought it on to themselves.

The only good thing, is that they seemed to keep the separate religions happy.

[maquiladora]

Majd Arar ‏@MajdArar Two major booms sounded in ‪#Malki‬ ‪#Muhajeren‬ as if artillery is being fired from Qasyoun Mountain. ‪#Syria‬ ‪#Damascus‬ Majd Arar ‏@MajdArar something unusual is happening I don't know yet what it is. ‪#Syria‬ ‪#Damascus

...

[Jason Raize '75 - '04]

I want to understand how the events of the last 10 years, especially the last 12 months, impacts geopolitical power both globally and regionally. Who gains from this? Who suffers?

[Solid warrior]

thats a very shallow way of seeing things. Thats what people said about every Arab regime that fell during the Arab spring. And I dont care what people say, ultimately Things ARE better in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt. things are better in the sense that there's a better or a beginning of a system of accountability. They have SOMETHING to work on now as a nation. It almost dont matter who wins the first couple of elections, what matters is the strengths of the institutions they are building as a nation.

Things are better in Tunisia. but they're not better in Egypt, Libya and Iraq (the previous regime-change target)

[phosphor112]

Maybe this also has to do with Ramadan coming up this Friday?

This was discussed yesterday on NPR. Get it all out of the way before it starts.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

something unusual is happening I don't know yet what it is. ‪#Syria‬ ‪#Damascus

Uh, I don't like that one.

[mr. puppy]

I want to understand how the events of the last 10 years, especially the last 12 months, impacts geopolitical power both globally and regionally. Who gains from this? Who suffers?

russia's only base in the middle east is in syria, so this is going to end poorly for them.

[CHEEZMO™]

something unusual is happening I don't know yet what it is. ‪#Syria‬ ‪#Damascus

Ominous.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Okay just artillery

Majd Arar ‏@MajdArar It's more & more confirmed that ‪#Assad‬ army fired two artillery rounds from Qasyoun mountain into ‪#Kafarsouseh‬. ‪#Syria‬ Expand Reply Retweet Favorite 14m Majd Arar ‏@MajdArar Many in ‪#Damascus‬ fears that ‪#Assad‬ will bombard the city from Qasyoun mountain. We can't verify that yet. ‪#Syria‬ Expand Reply Retweet Favorite 16m Majd Arar ‏@MajdArar Two major booms sounded in ‪#Malki‬ ‪#Muhajeren‬ as if artillery is being fired from Qasyoun Mountain. ‪#Syria‬ ‪#Damascus‬

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Okay this is actually bad.

Majd Arar ‏@MajdArar For years, bombarding ‪#Damascus‬ from Qasyoun mountain is the nightmare that everyone fears, we hope it won't happen. ‪#Syria‬

Can someone bring up some maps of the area?

[CHEEZMO™]

Okay this is actually bad. Can someone bring up some maps of the area?

Not a map, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDqQFHsJ39s

[sflufan]

Okay this is actually bad. Can someone bring up some maps of the area?

Here ya go!

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.54...5833,36.286389

[luxarific]

Okay this is actually bad. Can someone bring up some maps of the area?

It's the mountain to the immediate nw of the city

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=jabal+...gl=us&t=p&z=12


The view:

http://www.ketangajria.com/MENA/Syri...339622&k=ywxvn

[Pctx]

We've haven't begun to see the measure of Assad's tactics yet nor support from China or Russia. Saying a prayer for all the people there in Syria and Northern Lebanon.

[TheNatural]

This is the real shitty part of losing all sorts of goodwill with the Iraq war. Now the international community will backlash on any leading intervention from the US. We could have had that stroke in the faces of batshit Russia and China if not for the Iraq rep.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

It's the mountain to the immediate nw of the city http://maps.google.com/maps?q=jabal+...gl=us&t=p&z=12 The view: http://www.ketangajria.com/MENA/Syri...339622&k=ywxvn

Not a map, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDqQFHsJ39s

Here ya go! http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.54...5833,36.286389

Thanks, and holy shit that area gives the ability to attack anywhere in the city only limited by the range of their guns, and perhaps areas too close for the guns to be properly adjusted to hit. You'd need airpower to dislodge them.

[TheNatural]

Fuck and a bus bomb went off in Israel and they're blaming Iran. Shit is about to get nuts.

[el retorno]

I want to understand how the events of the last 10 years, especially the last 12 months, impacts geopolitical power both globally and regionally. Who gains from this? Who suffers?

The biggest global movement since the fall of communism.

Nobody know who has won or lost. That's what makes those the corridors of power so nervous, the outcome is still up in air. This hasn't been lead or directed and the traditional power states aren't always in control like they were during the cold war. The US isn't "losing" but their not really winning. If anything I think Turkey is winning the most in these events.

This is the real shitty part of losing all sorts of goodwill with the Iraq war. Now the international community will backlash on any leading intervention from the US. We could have had that stroke in the faces of batshit Russia and China if not for the Iraq rep.

Libya?

Fuck and a bus bomb went off in Israel and they're blaming Iran. Shit is about to get nuts.

Are you talking about Bulgaria? Israel and Iran have been having a series of small bombings. They've usually gone after scientists or diplomats though.

[~Devil Trigger~]

Things are better in Tunisia. but they're not better in Egypt, Libya and Iraq (the previous regime-change target)

guess you didn't get my point.

[TheNatural]

The biggest global movement since the fall of communism. Nobody know who has won or lost. That's what makes those the corridors of power so nervous, the outcome is still up in air. This hasn't been lead or directed and the traditional power states aren't always in control like they were during the cold war. The US isn't "losing" but their not really winning. If anything I think Turkey is winning the most in these events. Libya?

Russia and China abstained from voting in the UN I believe on Libya. They outright are voting against this one.

[el retorno]

Russia and China abstained from voting in the UN I believe on Libya. They outright are voting against this one.

Which meant they consented to it. They could have voted against it.

[Solid warrior]

The Damascus suicide bombing
Today's killing of Assad officials raises uncomfortable questions about the meaning and justifiability of Terrorism
By Glenn Greenwald

In Damascus today, a suicide bomber attacked a meeting of high level Syrian officials and killed several of them, including the nation’s Defense Minister Daoud Rajha and the Syrian military’s Deputy Chief of Staff, Asef Shawkat, who is also the brother-in-law of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Several reporters covering the region, such as Omar Waraich of Time and The Independent, have deduced that the suicide bomber was “Islamist.” Needless to say, if such an attack — perpetrated by an “Islamist” suicide bomber — were aimed at a Western government or those of their allies in the region, it would immediately be branded Terrorism and vehemently denounced. One need not speculate about that, as it has already happened. It was called the Pentagon part of the “9/11 attack,” where a plane was flown into America’s military headquarters. More analogous was Nidal Hasan’s 2009 assault on the U.S. military base at Fort Hood, which was instantly branded Terrorism by American media outlets, Washington officials, and a majority of Americans. Indeed, even if this kind of attack were directed at Western-supported tyrannies in the region — such as, say, Saudi Arabia or Bahrain — the Terrorism label would be widely applied by mainstream Western outlets. In fact, the alleged Iranian plot to kill the Saudi Ambassador — not civilians, but just this single official from a repellently oppressive regime — was instantly denounced as Terrorism. But it’s extremely doubtful that the term will be applied by Western media outlets to today’s Damascus attack. The New York Times story uses the term only once, with scare quotes attributing it to the Assad regime: “SANA, the official news agency, described the assault as a ‘suicide terrorist attack.’” The BBC did the same, referring to the anti-Assad forces as “rebels” and mentioning “terrorism” only when quoting the statements of the Assad government. It’s actually inconceivable that any mainstream Western outlet or commentator will call this attack Terrorism. Beyond the semantics, one already sees, on Twitter and elsewhere, substantial approval being expressed for the attack. Foreign Policy Editor Blake Hounshell referred this morning to “#thatawkwardmoment‬ [that awkward moment] when Westerners and secular Arabs cheer a suicide bombing.” U.N. analyst Hayes Brown similarly described ”that awkward moment in the UN Security Council where Western govts have to stop to think about whether to condemn a suicide bombing.” What makes it even more uncomfortable is that the U.S. Government itself has said that Syrian rebel forces have been “infiltrated” — at least — by Al Qaeda, meaning that the U.S. once again finds itself on the same side as its arch enemy, a side that is now using suicide bombs to kill government officials. I’m not arguing here that this is an act of Terrorism (in general, to the extent the term has any meaning at all, I think attacks on military targets do not qualify), nor am I addressing whether the bombing is justifiable. I’m certainly not calling into question the heinous violence and oppression of the Syrian regime (though I think Western Manichean reporting on the nature of the fighting and the identity of the rebels has been typically and substantially oversimplified). The point here is that we pretend Terrorism has some sort of objective meaning and that it is the personification of pure evil which all decent people (and Good Western nations) by definition categorically despise, when neither of those claims is remotely true. UPDATE: Just now, Donald Rumsfeld’s former Chief of Staff at the Pentagon, Keith Urbahn, wrote this: If someone told me that I could close my eyes and conjure up the most persuasive piece of evidence in support of the point I made this morning, I never would have been able to imagine anything this potent. UPDATE II: Since this morning, The New York Times article on this attack states definitively in the first paragraph that it was carried out by a suicide bomber: The BBC says the same (“died in a suicide bombing”). Other reports are apparently suggesting the bomb was detonated remotely. For extremely obvious reasons, whether the attack was carried out by suicide bomb or remote activation has no bearing on the point being made here.

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/the_...icide_bombing/

[TheNatural]

Which meant they consented to it. They could have voted against it.

Thats what I'm saying. They have interests in Syria though, so they don't give a fuck if people die.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The Country Singer?
EDIT: Oh extra H.

The Damascus suicide bombing Today's killing of Assad officials raises uncomfortable questions about the meaning and justifiability of Terrorism By Glenn Greenwald

Glenn is such a wank.

[Rubenov]

CNN said it was a suicide bomber that killed the defense minister. Depressing way to go :(

He sent totally innocent people to their deaths in more depressing ways.

[TheNatural]

The Damascus suicide bombing Today's killing of Assad officials raises uncomfortable questions about the meaning and justifiability of Terrorism By Glenn Greenwald http://www.salon.com/2012/07/18/the_...icide_bombing/

I separate terrorism by defining it as the intentional attack on innocent civilians. By that definition, Syria has been engaging in terrorism for a while now, gunning down protesters.

Then again, when the Maryland sniper was going around killing people, they didn't call that terrorism.

Seems to be just a tired argument about semantics so its best to not use it at all anymore.

[Jason's Ultimatum]

I'm sure Russell Brand can be an intermediary ambassador from the country Flippity-Doo-Dad, and broker some kind of peace deal.