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BY2K
Membero Americo
(07-30-2012, 10:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dark Octave

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/dou...165900852.html


Crazy.

Fucking hell. Poor woman.
Kevtones
Member
(07-30-2012, 11:03 PM)
When does he enter his plea?
Pandemic
Member
(07-31-2012, 02:16 AM)
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Did they have cameras inside the courtroom today?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
(07-31-2012, 02:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pandemic

Did they have cameras inside the courtroom today?

Nope. Probably smart movie from the judge. No reason to give this guy reasonable stuff for a change of venue.

Ugh, I haven't had jury duty in a while. Don't even want to think how large a pool they're going to call in.
Ether_Snake
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(07-31-2012, 02:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by JeTmAn81

It looks like first degree murder is premeditated, and second degree is when it was not premeditated or planned in advance. I find it hard to understand how you could kill someone having both planned it and not planned it in advance. There must be another explanation. The attempted murder charges are for everyone he didn't manage to kill, both in the movie theater and with his booby traps.

Maybe it's just so he can accept making a guilty plea for 12 murders instead of 24. Raise the charge, then lower it for a guilty plea.
carfo
Banned
(07-31-2012, 02:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shadow2222

I'm assuming they charged him with both 1st and 2nd degree murder for each one, resulting in the double count. However, I'm clueless about the attempted murder.

really? he would have taken out every single person in that theater if he had his way, he attempted to murder them all. hopefully you have a clue now.
toxicgonzo
Taxes?! Isn't this the line for Metallica?
(07-31-2012, 03:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ether_Snake

Maybe it's just so he can accept making a guilty plea for 12 murders instead of 24. Raise the charge, then lower it for a guilty plea.

But why? Whatever happens - whether he be charged for 12 murders or 24, he is going away for a long time or getting the death penalty (I'm not sure about Colorado law)
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
(07-31-2012, 03:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by toxicgonzo

But why? Whatever happens - whether he be charged for 12 murders or 24, he is going away for a long time or getting the death penalty (I'm not sure about Colorado law)

Colorado does have the Death Penalty, but the DA has stated they will go over it with the families before deciding as Colorado law allows a long appeals process, and a death sentence could drag out for over 20 years. We have a guy who committed a mass murder in 1993 who's still going through appeals.
Timedog
good credit (by proxy)
(07-31-2012, 03:13 AM)
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I hate to devil's advocate a shitbag psycho, but charging anyone with 2 counts of a crime for a single crime is dumb.
RiccochetJ
Banned
(07-31-2012, 03:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Timedog

I hate to devil's advocate a shitbag psycho, but charging anyone with 2 counts of a crime for a single crime is dumb.

They want to make sure that this bastard never sees the light of day.
FyreWulff
I Spit Hot Fyre
(07-31-2012, 03:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by onemic

What's with people saying that this was all staged and is just a hoax? It's getting top comments on youtube now

People can't cope with the idea that someone would just up and do this, and so try to explain it away as something that was done by someone who could "pull it off" so they choose something big like the government.

It's like they can't believe someone so "minor" could cause so much tragedy.

Also, I hope he gets life. No death penalty. Don't drop to his fucking level, we're better than petty gangbanger-level revenge.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
(07-31-2012, 03:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Timedog

I hate to devil's advocate a shitbag psycho, but charging anyone with 2 counts of a crime for a single crime is dumb.

I kind of agree. I hate seeing somebody get charged with not only "assault and battery" but "brandishing a weapon" "disorderly conduct" and "being a douche" too.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(07-31-2012, 03:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Daydream Sequence

That's 12 counts of first degree murder, and 12 counts of murder with extreme indifference. Same distinction is made with the attempted murder charges. Thus the doubling.

I've never heard this term before. Its fitting though.

And how about attempted murder counts fro everyone in that theater?


Originally Posted by I H8 Memes

It's weird that they also charged him with 116 counts of attempted muder. It's also exactly double the number of wounded. Must be along the same reasoning of the double murder charges.

Gotcha.
carfo
Banned
(07-31-2012, 04:56 AM)
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Amnesia...really?

I can't believe that's his excuse. The whole surrendering thing in full body armor still makes no sense to me.
Ether_Snake
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(07-31-2012, 05:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Steelrain

Conspiracy nuts. Anytime you see bullshit buzzwords like "psyop" used in a sentence, it's probably one of those losers.

I agree the idea that it's a conspiracy is bullshit, but don't tell me this guy isn't bullshitting everyone trying to get some sort of fame out of this.

This guy is ACTING http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNcAMRAePZk

Trying to get attention out of this. You can tell even the interviewer realizes this. When the guy tries to end the interview, the guy starts to ramble endlessly to stay on the air. He constantly talks over the interviewer trying to prevent him from asking questions so he can just carry on rambling.

What a shitty actor.
Last edited by Ether_Snake; 07-31-2012 at 05:18 AM.
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
(07-31-2012, 04:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by onemic

What's with people saying that this was all staged and is just a hoax? It's getting top comments on youtube now

Have you seen this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDRdD...eature=related
Alucrid
Member
(07-31-2012, 04:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Steelrain

Conspiracy nuts. Anytime you see bullshit buzzwords like "psyop" used in a sentence, it's probably one of those losers.

what if they're talking about the ps2 game
Onemic
Banned
(07-31-2012, 10:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ether_Snake

I agree the idea that it's a conspiracy is bullshit, but don't tell me this guy isn't bullshitting everyone trying to get some sort of fame out of this.

This guy is ACTING http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNcAMRAePZk

Trying to get attention out of this. You can tell even the interviewer realizes this. When the guy tries to end the interview, the guy starts to ramble endlessly to stay on the air. He constantly talks over the interviewer trying to prevent him from asking questions so he can just carry on rambling.

What a shitty actor.

When someone was just in a theatre with a guy shooting at everyone beside you and you're being interviewed hours later, I think you're entitled to ramble your ass off.
Ether_Snake
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(08-01-2012, 01:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by onemic

When someone was just in a theatre with a guy shooting at everyone beside you and you're being interviewed hours later, I think you're entitled to ramble your ass off.

That guy is a liar.
carfo
Banned
(08-01-2012, 01:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ether_Snake

That guy is a liar.

WTF? Someone here posted a video of this guy giving an "inspiring" closing speech, and it turns out he acted the whole thing out?? wtf?? what a disgusting person. His face is all over the internet, hope he gets noticed and called out on it every day of his life.
Onemic
Banned
(08-01-2012, 03:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by carfo

WTF? Someone here posted a video of this guy giving an "inspiring" closing speech, and it turns out he acted the whole thing out?? wtf?? what a disgusting person. His face is all over the internet, hope he gets noticed and called out on it every day of his life.

No that's conspiracy theorists. Unless there's proof it was a lie, I'd believe him over people that want to make every situation something that was thought of by the govt/CIA
replicashooter
Banned
(08-01-2012, 05:20 PM)
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Is this site real?

http://jamesholmeswiki.com/james-holmes-parents-robert/

This is the biography and resume of Robert Holmes who is the Colorado Shooter’s father. What is the link between this man and the killings?

Job Occupation. Senior Lead Scientist at Fair Isaac. He spent his entire life in the financial and credit services. His educational background shows exceptional emphasis on Mathematics.He has an extensive educational background. It is reported that he was about to go before Congress to testify against a banking scandal. Robert Holmes current position with FICO involves him handling Fraud.

Ether_Snake
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(08-01-2012, 06:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by replicashooter

Is this site real?

http://jamesholmeswiki.com/james-holmes-parents-robert/

No idea. I guess that's his LinkedIn profile http://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-holmes/4/47b/24a

I guess most of the info is from that page actually. Don't know if he really is his father.

This is the company: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Isaac

This article makes the same claim: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021030972

According to his LinkedIn profile, James Holmes’s father, Dr. Robert Holmes, who received a PhD in Statistics in 1981 from the University of California at Berkeley, worked for San Diego-based HNC Software, Inc. from 2000 to 2002. HNC, known as a “neural network” company, and DARPA, beginning in 1998, have worked on developing “cortronic neural networks,” which would allow machines to interpret aural and visual stimuli to think like humans.

The cortronic concept was developed by HNC Software’s chief scientist and co-founder, Robert Hecht-Nielsen. HNC merged with the Minneapolis-based Fair Isaac Corporation (FICO), a computer analysis and decision-making company. Robert Holmes continues to work at FICO.

Robert Holmes brief bio at linked in states the following: “My educational background is in Mathematics and Statistics. My experience over the last 10 years at HNC and FICO has been in developing predictive models for financial services; credit & fraud risk models, first and third party application fraud models and internet/online banking fraud models.”

Management Experience: I am currently managing a team building Falcon Fraud Manager Credit card fraud models. I have also managed teams in the Telco and Identity Theft fraud areas.”

How interesting and coincidental is it that in the film The Dark Knight Rises Bane gets his hands on Software that is used to expose the fraud in Wall Street and literally guts the rich?

Sounds a bit crazy...
Last edited by Ether_Snake; 08-01-2012 at 06:13 PM.
commedieu
Aliens made this post
(08-02-2012, 01:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by onemic

What's with people saying that this was all staged and is just a hoax? It's getting top comments on youtube now

Its because witnesses say a man opened the door for the shooter. Who is willing to testify to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=h4MW_qhAPAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Gv3PGtsHg

Youtube accounts getting terminated, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPqz...eature=related
Last edited by commedieu; 08-02-2012 at 01:10 AM.
Syphon Filter
Member
(08-02-2012, 01:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by onemic

No that's conspiracy theorists. Unless there's proof it was a lie, I'd believe him over people that want to make every situation something that was thought of by the govt/CIA

Seems real to me. You can see his emotion.
Ether_Snake
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(08-02-2012, 02:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by commedieu

Its because witnesses say a man opened the door for the shooter. Who is willing to testify to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=h4MW_qhAPAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Gv3PGtsHg

Youtube accounts getting terminated, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPqz...eature=related

All we need to know, and which we don't know yet as far as I know, is HOW LONG did it take for Holmes to get to the door, and come back and shoot people? If it was like two minutes, NO way could it be the same person. He would have to get to his car, dress up, take his guns, etc.

edit: No ok the guy says 15 to 20 mins later the shooter came inside. The thing is NO ONE says they saw a guy with red hair in the room. Even this guy who says he had a goatee doesn't mention the hair or hair color. You'd think he could more accurately describe him than "he had a goatee". I don't think it's far fetched to think someone was in to go open the door for Holmes since those doors don't open from outside. Otherwise it implies Holmes somehow kept the door open and risked not getting the door shut for real by someone else while he was gone to prepare himself.
Last edited by Ether_Snake; 08-02-2012 at 02:53 AM.
Skeyser
Member
(08-02-2012, 02:58 AM)
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Maybe he was wearing a hat?
Ether_Snake
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(08-02-2012, 03:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Skeyser

Maybe he was wearing a hat?

Maybe, but you'd think that would be mentioned in his description. They mention his height, a goatee, but not a hat or his hair, which implies his hair was not really something that stood out. Wearing a hat in a theater is noticeable. No reason to think he was wearing one really.
animlboogy
Member
(08-02-2012, 03:07 AM)
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Ether, weren't you the guy who was chastising us earlier in the thread when there was more active reporting being shared about obsessing too much over this case?

You're obsessing too much over this case.
Ether_Snake
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(08-02-2012, 03:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by animlboogy

Ether, weren't you the guy who was chastising us earlier in the thread when there was more active reporting being shared about obsessing too much over this case?

You're obsessing too much over this case.

I was talking about shooter motivations and this kind of stuff, his "motives", etc. Stuff that should be left to investigators, and how the media sensationalizes shootings. The kind of stuff that leads to copycat crimes.
NateDrake
Member
(08-02-2012, 03:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by commedieu

Its because witnesses say a man opened the door for the shooter. Who is willing to testify to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=h4MW_qhAPAU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4Gv3PGtsHg

Youtube accounts getting terminated, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoPqz...eature=related

The only thing I don't understand in some of the video accounts is, if the movie had started, why did people think the smoke/mystery item was a method to create hype for the movie? Did the movie actually begin or was it still previews when things happened? I honestly don't know the answer. That one video the guy giving his account that was posted early did come off as an act, of course I'm not saying it was or wasn't.

I don't think it is some grand conspiracy or anything, though.
Last edited by NateDrake; 08-02-2012 at 03:18 AM.
Daydream Sequence
Banned
(08-02-2012, 03:20 AM)

Originally Posted by NateDrake

The only thing I don't understand in some of the video accounts is, if the movie had started, why did people think the smoke/mystery item was a method to create hype for the movie? Did the movie actually begin or was it still previews when things happened? I honestly don't know the answer. That one video the guy giving his account that was posted early did come off as an act, of course I'm not saying it was or wasn't.

I don't think it is some grand conspiracy or anything, though.

Because no one expects to be tear-gassed at a movie. So their minds created a semi-logical reason for what was happening to be happening.
Ether_Snake
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(08-02-2012, 03:21 AM)
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I think when people say "we thought it was part of the movie", they just mean they thought that for a split second, but it's logical they would mention they felt that. Not that they thought that and then a minute later realized it wasn't. It was a quick "uh?" rather than an immediate "holy shit, theater shooting!".
NateDrake
Member
(08-02-2012, 03:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ether_Snake

I think when people say "we thought it was part of the movie", they just mean they thought that for a split second, but it's logical they would mention they felt that. Not that they thought that and then a minute later realized it wasn't. It was a quick "uh?" rather than an immediate "holy shit, theater shooting!".

Yeah, didn't think about it that way. I see your point and that makes sense.
mackaveli
Member
(08-05-2012, 08:14 PM)
any updates on what is going on with the trial etc.,?
Syphon Filter
Member
(08-07-2012, 03:55 AM)
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James Holmes' Psychiatrist Contacted University Police Weeks Before Movie-Theater Shooting

http://abcnews.go.com/US/james-holme...8#.UCCDJ01lRkQ
Ether_Snake
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(08-07-2012, 04:05 AM)
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From that article:

Fenton would have had to have serious concerns to break confidentiality with her patient to reach out to the police officer or others, the sources said. Under Colorado law, a psychiatrist can legally breach a pledge of confidentiality with a patient if he or she becomes aware of a serious and imminent threat that their patient might cause harm to others. Psychiatrists can also breach confidentiality if a court has ordered them to do so.

And she was on the Behavioral Threat Assessment Team. So sadly, it seems the matter was not taken seriously enough.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
(08-08-2012, 01:10 AM)
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Kind of off topic, but there was a huge fire at the apartment building right across the street from the shooters apartment building. Arson is suspected but no connection with the Aurora shooting.
Pandemic
Member
(08-10-2012, 02:24 AM)
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Lawyers for James Holmes, the man charged in the Batman movie massacre, said Thursday that Holmes is mentally ill. The disclosure came when the lawyers appeared with Holmes at a Colorado court hearing into the attack that left 12 dead and 58 wounded -- an attack that has left Holmes facing multiple murder charges that carry the death penalty.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...y-ill-lawyers/
PeakPointMatrix
Member
(08-10-2012, 02:44 AM)
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Are we ever going to hear this guy speak a single word?

And lol at the claim of mental illness. I always wonder if in cases like these, the lawyers just try to scrap at any sort of evidence they can to defend their criminal, no matter how obviously guilty he is.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
(08-10-2012, 02:48 AM)
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wasnt there evidence of months of planning and supplies being bought for? kevlar and ammo and guns and all that?

doesnt that negate the mental illness path? i'm not well versed in what's the scope of that line of defense. Do psychotic / sociopathic syndromes qualify the defendant to be pursued under a more lenient punishment?
Circle Jerk
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(08-10-2012, 02:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by SwiftSketcher

Are we ever going to hear this guy speak a single word?

And lol at the claim of mental illness. I always wonder if in cases like these, the lawyers just try to scrap at any sort of evidence they can to defend their criminal, no matter how obviously guilty he is.

Well, that is their job...
I H8 Memes
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(08-10-2012, 04:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by SwiftSketcher

Are we ever going to hear this guy speak a single word?

And lol at the claim of mental illness. I always wonder if in cases like these, the lawyers just try to scrap at any sort of evidence they can to defend their criminal, no matter how obviously guilty he is.


Did you ever get to see Jared Loughner in court? Nope. they will kepp him hidden from the public eye as much as possible until they have him medicated enough that the public wont see how crazy he is.

Both of these guys have serious mental illnesses. Americans don't find that acceptable. We have a justice system based on punishment and a populace who wont accept anything less no matter what the condition of the person who committed the crime. Most Americans dont believe that serious mental illness is even real. Look at this thread with the people who say he is faking.


I didnt notice a thread on it, but Loughner was just given a plea bargain of life in prison 2 days ago. With all that evidence? After shooting a US senator in the head and killing a little girl in front of a crowd of people? And he got a plea bargain. That should tell you everything you need to know about what his mental condition was. They judge found him to finally be competent to stand trial, but that was just a sham. That was just so they could offer the plea deal legally. And now they get to keep the public from seeing how mentally ill he is.

Obviously someone with as serious a mental illness as Loughner should have been sentenced to a mental institution. But that's not justice in Americas eyes. They want justice even when there is none to be had. It sucks that people can die and it is a situation where we cant even get justice out of the situation, but it does happen. But not in America. If they could have somehow have given Jared Loughner a trial without us being able to see him then believe me he would be headed to death row instead of life in prison. In America we will execute a mentally ill person and feel much better about that than we would about them being sentenced to a mental facility.

They are going to do the exact same thing with Holmes. And America will cheer it on. Americans for the most part simple dont believe in this kind of mental illness.
Roland Garros
Banned
(08-10-2012, 03:47 PM)

Originally Posted by I H8 Memes

Did you ever get to see Jared Loughner in court? Nope. they will kepp him hidden from the public eye as much as possible until they have him medicated enough that the public wont see how crazy he is.

Both of these guys have serious mental illnesses. Americans don't find that acceptable. We have a justice system based on punishment and a populace who wont accept anything less no matter what the condition of the person who committed the crime. Most Americans dont believe that serious mental illness is even real. Look at this thread with the people who say he is faking.


I didnt notice a thread on it, but Loughner was just given a plea bargain of life in prison 2 days ago. With all that evidence? After shooting a US senator in the head and killing a little girl in front of a crowd of people? And he got a plea bargain. That should tell you everything you need to know about what his mental condition was. They judge found him to finally be competent to stand trial, but that was just a sham. That was just so they could offer the plea deal legally. And now they get to keep the public from seeing how mentally ill he is.

Obviously someone with as serious a mental illness as Loughner should have been sentenced to a mental institution. But that's not justice in Americas eyes. They want justice even when there is none to be had. It sucks that people can die and it is a situation where we cant even get justice out of the situation, but it does happen. But not in America. If they could have somehow have given Jared Loughner a trial without us being able to see him then believe me he would be headed to death row instead of life in prison. In America we will execute a mentally ill person and feel much better about that than we would about them being sentenced to a mental facility.

They are going to do the exact same thing with Holmes. And America will cheer it on. Americans for the most part simple dont believe in this kind of mental illness.

Couldn't agree more. A brilliant post.
The Lamonster
Member
(08-10-2012, 03:53 PM)
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You're not allowed to kill people in this country. That is the rule. If you do though, pay the fucking price.
drumlord
Junior Member
(08-10-2012, 04:18 PM)

Originally Posted by I H8 Memes

Both of these guys have serious mental illnesses. Americans don't find that acceptable...
They are going to do the exact same thing with Holmes. And America will cheer it on. Americans for the most part simple dont believe in this kind of mental illness.

The courts generally are only concerned with whether the person knew what he was doing is wrong, not what type of mental illness he had. Even if the medical community classified the willingness to kill somebody as MurderItis so every single killer would count as being mentally ill, it wouldn't matter for their guilt or innocence. If you plan and execute somebody's murder and understand all the while that killing people is wrong, you are guilty.

Unless you are trying to make the argument that he didn't know it was wrong...in which case, best of luck to you and your arguments.

[IANAL]
OpinionatedCyborg
Thread Clinging Troll
(08-10-2012, 05:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by YesNOnoNOYes

wasnt there evidence of months of planning and supplies being bought for? kevlar and ammo and guns and all that?

doesnt that negate the mental illness path? i'm not well versed in what's the scope of that line of defense. Do psychotic / sociopathic syndromes qualify the defendant to be pursued under a more lenient punishment?

wikipedia is meticulously maintained by an army of autistic shut-ins, so planning, foresight, and obesssive attention to detail certainly aren't an indication one is mentally healthy. however, you are probably making the point in terms of what the courts are concerned with: was the person aware of the law and were the aware of right and wrong? in that case, he was likely well aware.
I H8 Memes
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(08-10-2012, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by drumlord

The courts generally are only concerned with whether the person knew what he was doing is wrong, not what type of mental illness he had. Even if the medical community classified the willingness to kill somebody as MurderItis so every single killer would count as being mentally ill, it wouldn't matter for their guilt or innocence. If you plan and execute somebody's murder and understand all the while that killing people is wrong, you are guilty.

Unless you are trying to make the argument that he didn't know it was wrong...in which case, best of luck to you and your arguments.

[IANAL]


It's not called murderitis, it's called schizophrenia. Should we use your standards to judge whether someone needs to be treated for a mental disease? If you can plan anything, and if you can answer yes to the question "Is killing people wrong" we will let them out of mental facilities and they don't have to get treatment.

We're talking about a mental illness so severe that in some cases people can actually see things in front of them that aren't there. Hear things that dont exist, including voices. The disassociation of their mind is so severe that they no longer have the ability to understand that it cant be real no matter how bizarre the visual or auditory hallucination is. This is their reality.

And these cases go well beyond Americans just not wanting to believe that a mind can be broken just like any other part of the body. Here we don't care what someones condition was at the time of the crime and will even openly admit that someone wasn't able to tell right from wrong or reality from hallucination at the time of the crime. As long as we can treat them enough to convince people that when they get to court they can then understand charges against them.

Here is a link to Loughners youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10/videos

A couple of videos seem to be missing. One where he is wearing a garbage bag in the desert and IIRC sets something on fire. And another where he walks around his college campus making nonsensical rantings. BTW, he was expelled from college because he was completely out of his mind. The administration told his parents he couldn't come back until they got him treated for his mental illness. He was far to ill to seek or be responsible for his own treatment. They didn't get him any treatment.

He got treatment after though. And they wouldn't let us see him until they had him treated enough to shuffle him into a courtroom and judge him competent so they could give him a plea bargain and get him out of sight again.


Schizophrenia is different for everybody though. On the surface Holmes doesn't seem to be quite as severe a case as Loughners. Loughners is so severe that I have no doubt that a judge ruling him competent is crime itself. Loughners will never be competent in his life being treated with current methods. Maybe in the future if we find better treatment for schizophrenia. Right now our best treatment is the equivalent of driving a nail with a sledgehammer.

But this is America. We want justice. What we really want is vengeance. We want blood. An eye for an eye. The vast majority of Americans would be more than happy to see Jarred Loughner executed. So we are going to stick that guy in a prison. That guy doesn't belong in a prison, and prisoners don't belong around a guy like that. Both for his benefit and theirs.
drumlord
Junior Member
(08-10-2012, 07:19 PM)

Originally Posted by I H8 Memes

Loughner stuff...
Schizophrenia stuff...
But this is America. We want justice. What we really want is vengeance. We want blood. An eye for an eye.

I know little about Loughner and I'm not addressing him at the moment. I also wasn't intending on talking about Schizophrenia. Though even if a murderer does have it, millions of non-murderers have schizophrenia and perceptions that schizophrenia leads to violence is not backed by science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Violence).

Simply having a mental illness does not mean you should be found not guilty of a crime and that is what we're talking about here. You need to have not been able to control your actions or at least not understand your actions when you committed the crime. This makes it somewhat simpler for courts to make decisions, but still difficult enough that new precedents are set every decade or so. Almost no cases involve the insanity defense and those that do usually fail. This isn't because Americans want blood; it's because we don't give people a pass just for having a diagnosed mental illness, especially because our understanding of mental illnesses is relatively new and we still don't know enough about them. One of the major issues is where do you draw the line? Just severe mental disorders? How would you define that? What about personality disorders? Many people suffering from schizophrenia also suffer from a personality disorder; maybe you need both to become violent. Does the disorder have to be from a defined chemical imbalance, genes, brain damage, etc.?

Even the defense attorneys have yet to come out and discuss Holmes' medical condition because they simply don't know yet, so it seems quite presumptuous to state he has schizophrenia, it was severe enough to cause him to murder people, and he should be found not guilty. And then to back that statement up by demonizing the "vast majority of Americans" makes it sound like you have grudge of some kind.

Originally Posted by I H8 Memes

The vast majority of Americans would be more than happy to see Jarred Loughner executed. So we are going to stick that guy in a prison. That guy doesn't belong in a prison, and prisoners don't belong around a guy like that. Both for his benefit and theirs.

What the vast majority of Americans want rarely has any impact on what a court decides. But obviously, there is a side topic here of whether prisoners should receive treatment for mental illnesses. I believe they should. And in some cases they do, but treatment of any condition prisoners have is a hotly debated topic and one that only gets more complicated when considering issues like Obamacare. Personally, I think the answer is simple, but I don't run countries.
Pandemic
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(08-18-2012, 03:42 AM)
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Has their been any new updates on this?

And did they end up releasing any of the 911 calls?

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