[walking fiend]

I have been trying to finish Persona 3 since it's release and although have played for 60hrs or so, haven't finished it yet. My main problem with the game is that fights (which make bulk of the non-sim part of the game) are mostly dependent on how much you have grinded and usually having suitable persona [which is something done mostly outside of each combat].

What are some jRPGs that provide a challenge in combat mechanism in the sense that with the same characters at the same lvl and build, if you play good you can win a fight that normally you will end up losing?

I believe P3:FES adds the ability to control each character individually, I suspect that helps a lot too? But is it worth to let go of my 60hrs play through and start FES from the beginning?

My systems are: PS2/PSP/Wii/PC/DS

[Metalic]

The World Ends With You had pretty challenging combat mechanics , which also made it unique.

[DidntKnowJack]

The World Ends With You is what immediately comes to mind. 2 different screens to contend with.

[Jader7777]

gl hf dd.

[Supermanisdead]

FES doesn't let you control the party, P3 Portable does though. It makes the game less frustrating (like the CPU using Garu 5 times instead of Magaru once), but it's still quite easy and reliant of level + personas.

[cosmicblizzard]

You shouldn't be grinding in Persona 3.

Anyway, Unlimited Saga.

[kadotsu]

Tactics Ogre, Knights in the Nightmare and the Ys games are mostly skill based.

[Buttons]

Xenosaga Episode II comes to mind. I remember playing it a lot at release but stopping for some reason because I could still not grasp the complicated battle system. I tried to play my save again a few weeks ago and the first random battle wiped my party as I totally forgot what to do, hard battle system is hard. O.o"

[Kusagari]

Resonance of Fate is so complicated most people just give up.

[The Awesomest]

Xenoblade, apparently, though I've never bothered trying. Something about agility and toppling.

[chaosblade]

Dark Souls probably fits (coming to PC soon). But people are probably going to start talking about how it doesn't count as a JRPG.

Resonance of Fate is so complicated most people just give up.

And yet, once you figure it out it's extremely easy because there's basically one tactic that's completely broken in any fight.

Xenoblade, apparently, though I've never bothered trying. Something about agility and toppling.

I don't know. Xenoblade is just kind of easy in general, it becomes more about prep and setup than in-battle tactics (or level, for that matter) though.

[fart town usa]

Resonance of Fate is so complicated most people just give up.

This x10

[beje]

You shouldn't be grinding in Persona 3. Anyway, Unlimited Saga.

That's not challenging, it falls directly into the "I don't know what the fuck I am doing" meme dog.

[Supermanisdead]

Xenoblade, apparently, though I've never bothered trying. Something about agility and toppling.

Yeah Xenoblade is really good if you get the intricacies down, but most people ignore that stuff and just go for simplicity. You can't hit an enemy 5+ levels above you and you can't be hit by enemies 5 levels below you. Usually all it takes is 1 level difference to demolish or be demolished.

[DukeTogo1300]

Legend of Dragoon comes to mind with those timing-based attacks. I've always found them more difficult to pull off than in games like Lost Odyssey or the Mario RPG's.

[ArynCrinn]

Resonance of Fate and Xenoblade are the only ones I can personally recommend. MHTri as well, can be very challenging.

[FSLink]

Persona 4.
TWEWY.
Tales games on at least Hard difficulty on the first playthrough can be fun and challenging. (Some of them like Vesperia and Graces can get pretty damn easy outside of certain annoying bosses once you figure out the game systems, but still.)
Symphonia, Abyss, Vesperia, and Graces f all can have battles where you're severely underleveled but beat a wild encounter or boss with smart play.

[Ravage]

Resonance of Fate, Tales of Graces F, Demon's Souls

[Ken]

Resonance of Fate is so complicated most people just give up.

Yup.

/cry

[Catshade]

What, no mention of The Last Remnant at all?

[Ravage]

What, no mention of The Last Remnant at all?

The combat system looks complex, but it isn't challenging at all.

[blowred]

FFVIII had a combat mechanism that didn't make any fucking sense.

[Dabanton]

Resonance of Fate is so complicated most people just give up.

I know I did.

I'll give it another go when I have the time.

[Mephala]

Vagrant Story took me the longest time to beat back in the days. I had no idea what I was doing and tried to risked everything in one massive, unending chain combo.

[StuBurns]

FFXIII makes your build of little importance, but that it is the furthest towards correct and incorrect meaning effective and ineffective. A battle can be a ten minute slog, or a thirty second massacre depending on your understanding of the strategy for the encounter.

[Shinjica]

You shouldn't be grinding in Persona 3. Anyway, Unlimited Saga.

Please NO.

Play everything but not Unlimited Saga.

[Boken]

Shadow Hearts: Covenant

[tinders]

Baten Kaitos (and Origins) ??

It's card based, not sure if that disqualifies it...

[Herb]

What, no mention of The Last Remnant at all?

I don't even understand the combat system in this game. :/

[walking fiend]

Thanks for recommendations;

I do have MH Tri, but not pro controller and with Wiimote it's not really enjoyable.
I also have TWEWY; the combat is quite challenging, but I haven't got much into the game (played it for few hours, it just feels like a long introduction for now at least).

I also have P4, but do not want to play it until I beat P3 or completely right off finishing P3.

I did put several hours into The Last Remnant, but got bored and never finished it [and don't feel like wanting to go back either]; though I didn't find the combat challenging, beside probably some fast responses requires iirc

Shadow Hearts: Covenant

Shadow Hearts: Covenant and FF X are actually the only jRPGs I have finished; two of the best games I have ever played too

To name a game of my own, The Last Story also has a challenging combat mechanism; it's the only other jRPG which I have beaten the final boss [haven't finished the chapters after]; for the first few times I tried beating him, I was wiped; however, after several tries and various strategies, I ended up beating him without getting lucky [that is, I can beat him over now]; a really excellent combat mechanism, really under-appreciated game

[hao chi]

Lost Odyssey, maybe? I don't play a ton of JRPG's, but I liked how grinding was useless in that game because you would quickly gain experience to get to the level you're supposed to be for that area, then after that you get hardly any XP.

The bosses also required a lot of strategy (again, from the perspective of someone who doesn't play JRPG's very often).

Outside of that (since you don't have a 360), I can't think of any.

You shouldn't be grinding in Persona 3.

I don't know about that. I just got to Sleeping Table, and I definitely need to keep grinding. My party members were about level 36 when I got there, and we were getting destroyed (even Junpei and that dog thing). I was really the only one able to withstand Sleeping Table's attacks.

[toddhunter]

Resonance of fate and twewy are only challenging if you consider working them out the entirety of them. Once you get one method that works in either game, you can do the exact same thing over and over until you finish it.

Something like suikoden could mess you up a bit more.

[Canis lupus]

Legend of Dragoon.

[walking fiend]

I don't know about that. I just got to Sleeping Table, and I definitely need to keep grinding. My party members were about level 36 when I got there, and we were getting destroyed (even Junpei and that dog thing). I was really the only one able to withstand Sleeping Table's attacks.

The problem is that even the normal course of clearing each floor is grinding as once you get around knowing your enemy, you either can beat them or you have to avoid them, there's usually no middle ground [and also luck plays and important role too; specially if you miss some of your attacks which you expected to knock down the enemy due to being their weakness]

Legend of Dragoon.

iirc, I had the game on PC; but wasn't it for like more than a decade a ago?

Resonance of fate and twewy are only challenging if you consider working them out the entirety of them. Once you get one method that works in either game, you can do the exact same thing over and over until you finish it. Something like suikoden could mess you up a bit more.

I believe I don't have a system to play RoF [unless it is on PC]; I will look into Suikoden though; are there any good versions on DS or PS2? I don't like how PS2 games not supporting progressive output look like on my HDTV

[bede-x]

Try Vagrant Story which is quite challenging and allows for very different playing styles.

Lost Odyssey is also a possibility because it gives you fewer and fewer rewards if you try grinding. Not as good as Vagrant, mind.

EDIT: Didn't see you don't have a 360. Substitute Odyssey for Legend of Dragoon then.

[walking fiend]

Try Vagrant Story which is quite challenging and allows for very different playing styles. Lost Odyssey is also a possibility because it gives you fewer and fewer rewards if you try grinding. Not as good as Vagrant, mind.

I actually do have Vagrant Story; but I don't remember last time I saw it, I may have lost it :( I remember playing the game back then for few hours, but can't remember why I didn't get much into it; it had a combat mechanism like Fallout iirc?

LO is 360 only though, can't play it.

[Cisce]

I believe P3:FES adds the ability to control each character individually, I suspect that helps a lot too? But is it worth to let go of my 60hrs play through and start FES from the beginning?

Persona 3: FES adds some extra content and an additional epilogue chapter (The Answer) not
the ability to control characters indvidually. That's Persona 3 Portable for the PSP (Which also has it's downs including the entire Day parts of the game playing like a Visual Novel)

I'd recommend just to keep playing your current P3 save.

[PokéKong]

I have only dabbled in the early Tales games, but the mixing of 2D fighter battles in an RPG has always really intrigued me, have any of the more recent titles introduced more complex fighting or action game mechanics than typical attack mashing?

[walking fiend]

Persona 3: FES adds some extra content and an additional epilogue chapter (The Answer) not the ability to control characters indvidually. That's Persona 3 Portable for the PSP (Which also has it's downs including the entire Day parts of the game playing like a Visual Novel) I'd recommend just to keep playing your current P3 save.

I wanted to get P3 portable, but didn't know about this day part; however, I knew that the cut scenes were cut out and that was enough not to want the game; I never knew size issues can really have this major effects and always thought of them as lame excuses

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

Valkyrie Profil: Covenant of the Plume. HF abusing the feather and being slain by the Valkyrie in level 5 or 6 without any chance to survive. And if you're not using the feather, the game becomes very hard.

[redlemon]

I haven't played it in a long time so I might be wrong but Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter might be what your looking for.

[Firestorm]

I spend every Tales game grossly underlevelled and need to do everything I can to survive boss fights. I find it rewarding.

[KSai]

Valkyrie Profil: Covenant of the Plume. HF abusing the feather and being slain by the Valkyrie in level 5 or 6 without any chance to survive. And if you're not using the feather, the game becomes very hard.

Covenant of the Plume was awesome. I didn't have any trouble with it until I got to the final boss, just like in the original VP.

Persona 4 on Expert was a good experience. I didn't even bother with the other difficulty levels. As it was said earlier, if you're grinding in Persona then you're doing something wrong.

[Pikma]

Now, THAT*'s challenging.

Edit: *THAT= Resonance of Fate :3

[Muchi Muchi Pink]

Covenant of the Plume was awesome. I didn't have any trouble with it until I got to the final boss, just like in the original VP.

Great Avatar!

[ZoddGutts]

Play Ys games. Their the combat is great and boss battles challenging but fair, also no grinding needed! One thing I hate about JRPG's usually you'll end up hitting a road block with a boss because your under leveled, so you'll end up grinding for a couple of hours just to beat a boss, hate that.

[walking fiend]

Now, THAT's challenging.

what's that? Resonance of Fate?

Covenant of the Plume was awesome. I didn't have any trouble with it until I got to the final boss, just like in the original VP. Persona 4 on Expert was a good experience. I didn't even bother with the other difficulty levels. As it was said earlier, if you're grinding in Persona then you're doing something wrong.

I'll look into CotP, like playing games on DS.

With persona, the whole combat is grinding for reasons I explained; even if you do not go back clearing the same floors

Play Ys games. Their the combat is great and boss battles challenging but fair, also no grinding needed! One thing I hate about JRPG's usually you'll end up hitting a road block with a boss because your under leveled, so you'll end up grinding for a couple of hours just to beat a boss, hate that.

What's the best one of Ys games? I like good stories, if it helps :) thx

[Boss Doggie]

Why are people saying MH? That's not really much of an RPG.

Anyway, as with people suggesting Resonance of Fate, go get the other team VP2 games, primarily Star Ocean 3 and Valkyrie Profile 2, to complete your team VP2 game collection. They have awesome battle systems. The purpose of levels there are mostly for attacks - generally it's how you set up your skills and how you perform your attacks.

[Palette Swap]

The combat system looks complex, but it isn't challenging at all.

The really bad/counterintuitive part is the leveling system.
The best way to beat these optional bosses is to avoid fights as much as possible for most of the game.
It seems really easy to fuck up your character build in this game.

[Wildesy]

Resonance of Fate is so complicated most people just give up.

*so poorly explained