[henhowc]

Its going to be 50/50 love/hate fest like all the others times someone has posted LTTP Chrono Cross.

Just play it.

[TDLink]

I really dislike it when a game forces me to make choices with consequences I can't foresee when it results in "missables", for lack of a better term here.

Well I think it is better when a choice actually has a consequence like a choice is supposed to. Sure OCD people are going to look at it as a "missable" or something preventing completion in one run or whatever. That's just how it is though and I think it was actually pretty cool that a RPG like this had a few choices with actual consequences since at the time it was a rarity. Even today there really aren't many JRPGs where you can make choices that lead to different outcomes apart from "do the thing like a good guy" or "do the thing like a bad guy".

Yeah, they're all animations, but there are good animations and bad animations. For example, in Chrono Trigger, when I used Ice Sword, I was filled with immense satisfaction every time the sword hit. The move is pure splendor in sight and sound. Not every move in Chrono Trigger is this great, but a lot of them are very memorable. I have to think very hard to remember any moves from Chrono Cross (much like the characters), and none of them gave me any pleasure that I can remember. Perhaps an exception: I remember liking a green fairy girl, despite her damage being crap. I think I may have liked one of her unique attacks.

Again, that is all subjective. What makes an animation good or bad is all up to preference. For you there aren't many memorable CC attacks, for me there are. I am fairly sure the same could be said about any RPG, or any game really.

Most of the characters are on par with "I found him and he decided to join me just because". Most. The plot reactions are the difference of a line, and most of the reactions are filler-level involvement.

Most of the characters you actually need to do a sidequest of some sort to recruit. In fact, if you don't seek out people to recruit it is possible to finish the game with a relatively low character count (less than 12 I believe). Also, I never said they drastically altered the plot just that they react to story events differently. As you say "a line", but those lines add up from different story events to shape their personality and they do differ and are not always just "filler-level".

Prometheus was a nod to CT fans. A small - yet enormous - connection between time and world. Giving a character the same name and move isn't a nod to me, it's just an oddity. If it were still Glenn, it would mean something. It would be better if it were an apprentice by a different name who wielded the same sword and learned his fighting style, etc. That would be a nod, to me. Otherwise it's awkward, and I wonder how any of this makes sense or matters. Also, where the fuck were my Nu's? I kept waiting for those when I played. In Chrono Trigger, "Everything begins and ends with Nu" - silly and amusing. Cross had no Nu's, and I don't understand why. Visually, nothing at all like "himself". Magus was a badass who told people they'd die to their face as a child. This guy looks more like a magician that you might catch feeling up your mom at your birthday party.

These are all extremely minor and nitpicky things that affect the game very little. Obviously things they intended as nods ended up just pissing off many CT fans but I doubt that was their plan. Everything can also be easily explained away by "it's an alternate reality/parallel dimension", which is a perfectly viable claim for this game.

[Psxphile]

thread title

Oh boy, a Chrono Cross thread! What fun!

end of page one

[Dead]

Pretty much the best PSone RPG

[Karsticles]

What real, tangible evidence do we have that the man who was responsible for two stories with shounen leads (like Vaan) had any strong plan for a FFXII involving Basch as the main character? Or that this story would have been good? Attributing the failure of FFXII to deliver a compelling story to Vaan misses the point. Even Vaan could have been used to tell a better story. But Basch never really drove the story either, Ashe did.

I found Basch to be the most compelling character in that game, but no one drove the story. That's part of why it was so bad. The events carried you, not the characters. In multiple instances, I thought "Oh man, we're involving one of the characters on a personal level - this is going to get good now!", but it never did. It always reverted back to a story about "destiny", which is the calling card of every author who can't come up with compelling characters.

The source on Basch is from ye olde Wikipedia - there is no more legitimate source sir!

Basch was initially meant to be the main character of the story, but the focus was eventually shifted to Vaan and Penelo when the two characters were created later in development.[66] The development team explained that their previous game, Vagrant Story, which featured a "strong man in his prime" as the protagonist had been unsuccessful and unpopular; the change regarding Final Fantasy XII from a "big and tough" protagonist to a younger, youthful one was thus decided after targeting demographics were considered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_F...II#Development

It matters in the sense that you are entitled to your opinion but you basically came in here and starting saying others' were wrong because they weren't yours/presenting your opinions as fact.

There are no facts, only interpretations. This is a gaming forum, isn't the point to discuss our varying perspectives? Undoubtedly, I'm happy to say at any point in the conversation "Well, if you feel that strongly about it, I suppose we can't discuss it any further, as it's all a matter of opinion". Several people here I have not even bothered to respond to because their posts have no content at all, or their opinions are so unbelievable that I do not attempt to engage in conversation with them. Contrarily, I have continued to engage with you because, while we disagree about nearly every thing in this game, you're able to talk about it.

It's a spiritual sequel, not a direct sequel. FF9 relies on a plot thread from FF1 similarly but it is not a direct sequel. It is more of a what if? scenario. Although, FF9 is more similar to FF1 than CC to CT. Additionally, it could even be argued that CC takes place in a parallel dimension from CT considering parallel dimensions is a large part and premise of the game.

A spiritual sequel shares only conceptual elements. Bayonetta is a spiritual sequel to the Devil May Cry franchise. Chrono Cross shares direct plot links and characters between games - it is a direct sequel.

Yeah, you can do the whole "parallel dimension" thing, which is part of why I loathed Chrono Cross. Make a story and stick to it, don't give me a bunch of alternate possibility crap. My tastes are more deterministic. Even if you want to say this is "one world" that continues off of CT, it still continues off of it, does so poorly, and is the world they chose to convey. Just as condemnable.

I hadn't read that interview. Regardless, it was blatantly intended for Guile to be Magus even if it ended up getting changed before release. It was this way in Radical Dreamers and them bringing it up again for CT DS obviously indicates it's ultimately want. It's more like they retconed a retcon back to the original idea than actually being a retcon. Also, while Radical Dreamers was an "alternate reality" the same could be argued about Chrono Cross. I think Guile's character would have been better if they did what it seems they wanted to but I don't think a character change like that hinges on a game moving up or down a whole notch in quality. Comments like that speak to how much opinions of this game hinge on its relation to Chrono Trigger.

Yeah, retconning a reton. Like I said, it's not about the relation to CT. Don't you think it sucked, just a bit, that absolutely no one in your party knows who Schala is or relates to her in any way? I like a character-driven story. Nothing, not a single boss, in Chrono Trigger is impersonal. There's always something there about your characters, their wants, their goals, and interactions with others. That's part of why it's so enjoyable. It would have been better if Cross had just one character that had a reason to give a damn about her. Again: nothing at all to do with Chrono Trigger. This is just character development 101 talking.

It's part of why the character recruitment is so awful. Why do any of these characters want to vacate their lives to join me on a long, complex quest with no clear end or purpose in sight? Good RPGs make it very clear why everyone is still with you. I'm 70% of the way through Xenoblade, and it does a wonderful job in this regard. There are a few characters that you can explain joining your quest in CC, but for most of them you just have to wonder what the hell they were thinking. And you'll never know, because there's no character development in the game.

Edit: I also read that interview on GamePro again, and it bothers me that he used the word "intention" for Lavos. I never thought Lavos to be an intentional being, but something more primitive, something acting purely on instinct. There's no semblance in CT of Lavos ever "planning" anything.

[GSR]

Also, before I forget, how exactly do stat-ups work in this game? I know you essentially start gaining them after boss fights and stop gaining them after so many battles, but does what you fight affect your stat gains, or what?

[CorvoSol]

Chrono Cross is a game I really liked because of its aesthetics, but the story is something I have grown to hate over the years. The reason for this largely revolves around what I guess you could call the game's "moral."

The game beats you over the head with how humanity is ruining the planet, and humans are bastards and hate the world and grew apart from it. It goes so far as to tell you that all humanity are the children of Lavos, because Lavos made man evolve from stupid apes into what they are. You are literally bitched at by people who are in the middle of committing genocide about what an asshole humanity is because it ruined a swamp, and then the people you SAVED FROM THAT GENOCIDE pull the same bitchy move and piss at you because that same swamp lead to their genocide, I guess. Then you get lectured about how the Reptites were closer to the planet than man, and so on.

The problem is this is all contradictory to what we saw in Chrono Trigger. It was man, not Reptite, who was bending over to save the world from Lavos. Azala actively awaited the coming of Lavos, and hoped he would destroy everything when he came. It was man who lived in natural settings, not Reptites, who had constructed machines and castles. Ayla and her tribesmen were perhaps less well-spoken than Azala, but they were by no means the "apes" which Cross brands them. That term was just an epithet Azala had thrown around, even when your party consists of Robo, Frog and Magus, you get called "Ape". In Chrono Trigger, humanity banded together across time to save the world, and now everyone from the Dragons to the Dwarves are claiming humans are all jerks. It's blunt, it's stupid, and on your third playthrough of the game, it's downright agitating.

Otherwise, it's a fun game with great graphics, music, an engaging battle system and the MAIN quest, once you piece it together, is really fairly endearing. At least, if you cared about that loose end from Chrono Trigger. Saving Schala was worth it, to me, but the Green Aesop is hamfisted, that's all.

[Ingueferroque]

I really wish that Square hadn't tried to make the game into a Suikoden clone. There were way too many characters in the game. It took away from the few characters that were actually important to the story and none of them had any real development.

Just stop. You lost it after you claimed the only good tracks on the OST were CT remixes.

[Psxphile]

Also, before I forget, how exactly do stat-ups work in this game? I know you essentially start gaining them after boss fights and stop gaining them after so many battles, but does what you fight affect your stat gains, or what?

Boss fights give Star Levels when beaten, which increases every party member's stats (including those you haven't come across yet) a set amount except for those who are knocked out. Afterwards, random battles will sometimes give active party member's a minor HP increase and/or another smaller stat increase, which is a bit random in what gets boosted. Those small stat increases can be earned after every Star Level upgrade.

Basically, the more one character participates in battle, the better chances he/she has to reach their full potential.

[encephalon]

I found Basch to be the most compelling character in that game, but no one drove the story. That's part of why it was so bad. The events carried you, not the characters. In multiple instances, I thought "Oh man, we're involving one of the characters on a personal level - this is going to get good now!", but it never did. It always reverted back to a story about "destiny", which is the calling card of every author who can't come up with compelling characters. The source on Basch is from ye olde Wikipedia - there is no more legitimate source sir! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_F...II#Development

I agree with this to an extent, but I feel like Ashe was the closest thing the game had to a "lead" character. At least in terms of FFXII being a story of her reclaiming her kingdom ... through a fetch quests and happenstance (alongside the "moral gray area" villain's underdeveloped ambition).

This is what I got from the google translated French source:

Q: Why design a hero if effeminate?
Akitoshi Kawazu and Hiroshi Minagawa: (Laughs) It's true we do not really know either. What happened is that the previous game on which we worked was Vagrant Story, which was a rather hefty hero in the prime of age did not work at all and was not too popular . So we decided to go on a teenager to see if it's more like the public.

If anything, the 'Basch was meant to be the main character' rumor is probably closely tied to why Vaan would be chosen to be more popular. The JRPG uncle character trope is probably just more popular with the west (see: Auron's popularity).

[henhowc]

Why are you guys talking about Final Fantasy now :P

[Dark Schala]

Chiming in. Er, even though this looks like a Final Fantasy thread now. :lol

I fucking love Chrono Cross's presentation. The art is beautiful (<3 Honne's work so damned much; he's definitely one of my favourite art directors), and the soundtrack is my favourite soundtrack of all time. I liked the battle system a lot as well, though while I had fun with it, I didn't have as much fun with it as I did with ATB 2.0 in CT.

The story takes some twists and turns that I didn't really like, but I generally like to accept the game as a reimagining of Radical Dreamers as opposed to following Chrono Trigger, even though the DS version of CT worked it so that CC has a closer relationship to CT. If anything, Radical Dreamers bears a closer connection to CT than CC did.

Anyway. I like CC. I love getting lost in the art and the world and the music. I certainly get the dislike for it, though.

[TDLink]

There are no facts, only interpretations. This is a gaming forum, isn't the point to discuss our varying perspectives? Undoubtedly, I'm happy to say at any point in the conversation "Well, if you feel that strongly about it, I suppose we can't discuss it any further, as it's all a matter of opinion". Several people here I have not even bothered to respond to because their posts have no content at all, or their opinions are so unbelievable that I do not attempt to engage in conversation with them. Contrarily, I have continued to engage with you because, while we disagree about nearly every thing in this game, you're able to talk about it.

Some things like there being more unique moves overall in CC vs CT or CC having more elements to its battle system than CT's are facts. It's interpretation if those things are better or worse but it is fact they are what they are. Naturally the whole point of being here is to discuss our opinions, my only complaint was initially you were making your opinion out to be fact. Ie, solidly stating Chrono Cross is a worse game than CT opposed to saying you liked CT more than CC. I am glad we have been able to have this discussion though, it's enjoyable.

A spiritual sequel shares only conceptual elements. Bayonetta is a spiritual sequel to the Devil May Cry franchise. Chrono Cross shares direct plot links and characters between games - it is a direct sequel. Yeah, you can do the whole "parallel dimension" thing, which is part of why I loathed Chrono Cross. Make a story and stick to it, don't give me a bunch of alternate possibility crap. My tastes are more deterministic. Even if you want to say this is "one world" that continues off of CT, it still continues off of it, does so poorly, and is the world they chose to convey. Just as condemnable.

Fair enough. Spirital Sequel is probably the wrong term to use there. I think I mentioned it earlier but I see the game as more of a what if? scenario, an alternate possibility like you mention. It's fine if you see that as crap though, I didn't particularly mind it.

Yeah, retconning a reton. Like I said, it's not about the relation to CT. Don't you think it sucked, just a bit, that absolutely no one in your party knows who Schala is or relates to her in any way? I like a character-driven story. Nothing, not a single boss, in Chrono Trigger is impersonal. There's always something there about your characters, their wants, their goals, and interactions with others. That's part of why it's so enjoyable. It would have been better if Cross had just one character that had a reason to give a damn about her. Again: nothing at all to do with Chrono Trigger. This is just character development 101 talking.

I do actually completely agree with you here. For how core that character is in the game it is a shame your group is so disconnected. I still think Cross is strong despite that flaw though.

It's part of why the character recruitment is so awful. Why do any of these characters want to vacate their lives to join me on a long, complex quest with no clear end or purpose in sight? Good RPGs make it very clear why everyone is still with you. I'm 70% of the way through Xenoblade, and it does a wonderful job in this regard. There are a few characters that you can explain joining your quest in CC, but for most of them you just have to wonder what the hell they were thinking. And you'll never know, because there's no character development in the game.

Most RPGs actually have a few characters who are just with you and don't have much more reasoning than that. Now, I would say most of the characters in most RPGs aren't like that, but there are typically a couple. Chrono Cross probably has about as many with legitimate reasons for being there as any other RPG but you are right in that the problem lies with there just being so many more that ultimately are just sort of there. I still think choosing which ones to put in your party, even if they aren't central to the story, changes your experience though and is part of the fun of CC's choose your own adventure style.

Additionally, Xenoblade is fucking awesome. I loved that game and I honestly think it is one of the best RPGs in a long time. I liked it so much I bought it twice (EU import and NA version when i came out). For a "character who is just sort of there" from that game though see: Riki.

[DJIzana]

Chrono Cross IS my all time favorite game that I've ever played. I fell in love with the aesthetics, soundtrack, setting and the battle system.

The only thing that bugged me a TINY bit were some of the characters they had chosen to include in the game. That said, you don't even need to have those certain characters in your group so that fact is null in of itself.

It's had many years of replay-ability for me and I hope that they some day make a third... there's only one game currently, that's being developed that has me as hyped as the first time I laid eyes on Chrono Cross and that's Versus XIII.

A game as good as Chrono Cross, for me, is near IMPOSSIBLE to find now-a-days...

[revolverjgw]

I remember nothing about the story or gameplay but the incredible beauty of this game's backgrounds and music will stick with me forever.

[ZombiePlatypus]

Chrono Cross is a game I really liked because of its aesthetics, but the story is something I have grown to hate over the years. The reason for this largely revolves around what I guess you could call the game's "moral." The game beats you over the head with how humanity is ruining the planet, and humans are bastards and hate the world and grew apart from it. It goes so far as to tell you that all humanity are the children of Lavos, because Lavos made man evolve from stupid apes into what they are. You are literally bitched at by people who are in the middle of committing genocide about what an asshole humanity is because it ruined a swamp, and then the people you SAVED FROM THAT GENOCIDE pull the same bitchy move and piss at you because that same swamp lead to their genocide, I guess. Then you get lectured about how the Reptites were closer to the planet than man, and so on.

Sure, contact with Lavos changed the way humans evolved but that doesn't necessarily make them bad guys. Screw those racists dwarves. Who are they to decide who was evil in that game and who wasn't.

[Psxphile]

I remember nothing about the story or gameplay but the incredible beauty of this game's backgrounds and music will stick with me forever.

They're very stunning, agreed.

[ZombiePlatypus]

They're very stunning, agreed.

Just changed my facebook cover photo to this. :p

The game is just gorgeous all around. I remember my jaw dropping the first time I got to the the M.C. Escher bits.

[ubercheez]

Background pics

Thank you. This is the kind of thing I expected when I entered this thread.

I absolutely loved playing Chrono Cross. The art and music can carry the game entirely on their own, but I also thought the battle system was a breath of fresh air from the ATB fare I was used to. I enjoyed the challenge of changing the field color in preparation for a high-level spell while still doing solid damage along the way.

I've only beaten it one time, but eventually I'd like to see all the alternate endings (for myself -- don't want to take the Youtube route).

I certainly don't begrudge others their opinions regarding the game, but I'm surprised at the amount of hate this thread has generated. And people turning their nose up at CC's music? Wow. Still the greatest game OST, as far as I'm concerned. Although Nier came damn close.

[Canis lupus]

Is this on the EU PSN?

[Karsticles]

Some things like there being more unique moves overall in CC vs CT or CC having more elements to its battle system than CT's are facts. It's interpretation if those things are better or worse but it is fact they are what they are. Naturally the whole point of being here is to discuss our opinions, my only complaint was initially you were making your opinion out to be fact. Ie, solidly stating Chrono Cross is a worse game than CT opposed to saying you liked CT more than CC. I am glad we have been able to have this discussion though, it's enjoyable.

Anything is interpreted by a subject, which is the definition of subjective. I don't embrace any notion of objectivity.

Fair enough. Spirital Sequel is probably the wrong term to use there. I think I mentioned it earlier but I see the game as more of a what if? scenario, an alternate possibility like you mention. It's fine if you see that as crap though, I didn't particularly mind it.

I can't see the game as a "what if?" scenario. It seems like the author really thought this tied loose ends together, and was an important aspect of the plot to explore.

I do actually completely agree with you here. For how core that character is in the game it is a shame your group is so disconnected. I still think Cross is strong despite that flaw though.

If there's no character motivation, to me there might as well not be a plot, since the existing one makes no sense. For most of Cross, you can ask "why does anyone care?", and it's hard to think of an answer.

Most RPGs actually have a few characters who are just with you and don't have much more reasoning than that. Now, I would say most of the characters in most RPGs aren't like that, but there are typically a couple. Chrono Cross probably has about as many with legitimate reasons for being there as any other RPG but you are right in that the problem lies with there just being so many more that ultimately are just sort of there. I still think choosing which ones to put in your party, even if they aren't central to the story, changes your experience though and is part of the fun of CC's choose your own adventure style.

Part of it to me is this: why would you choose the random nobodies? Is a straw man with no personality, backstory, etc. really so appealing just because he's a man made of straw? He might as well not be there. I can't imagine wanting to use a character that you know nothing about. It would ruin any enjoyment of my character party to have someone there who is almost literally a nobody. I agree that the "just along for the ride" character is too common, even in great RPGs.

Additionally, Xenoblade is fucking awesome. I loved that game and I honestly think it is one of the best RPGs in a long time. I liked it so much I bought it twice (EU import and NA version when i came out). For a "character who is just sort of there" from that game though see: Riki.

Riki's motivations are spelled out, and I find his inclusion hilarious. He's two steps from exiled from society and sent off to death, but is called the "Heropon" to put a positive spin on things. Riki also has a ton of personality, and you can explore him more through HTHs. No, he's not there because he hates mechon, but the game is in on that joke. "Riki like fighting easy monsters!" He constantly wants to stop and take a break from everything, etc. Riki's forced into his position, he'd rather be relaxing back at home eating food. That's not to say that he doesn't care about his friends, of course.

Agreed that Xenoblade is awesome. It's everything FFXII wanted to be and more. Fantastic game with merely a few blemishes overall. I haven't finished it yet, though, and I know its conclusion upset some people. I reserve final judgment, but I find it hard to imagine that a game that has played its cards so right will fall apart over the next 20 hours.

[alf717]

Cross is OK but not what I wanted as a sequel to Trigger. The game has so many bland and boring characters that it makes you think why even put them in the game. Trigger has a great cast of characters and you feel that each one is useful and has a place in the game. Cross just kept adding to the cast and some of them were just so lame like the guy that attacks with the guitar. In Trigger it was fun swapping characters but in Cross I found my three and stuck with them the rest of the game the best I could.

[Rei_Toei]

An incredibly beautiful game with a fantastic soundtrack and a (at first) rather confusing story. At times captured the same youthful joy de vivre Chrono Trigger excels at, but is also much more gloomy and somber at times. A strange cocktail that had me nonetheless intrigued and entertained. I was a bit disappointed by the truckloads of characters - development of personalities felt smeared out over too big a roster of freaks.

[djtiesto]

I played CC a long time ago, upon release... loved the art style (you can totally see the origins of Monolith's distinctive and colorful style here) and music, appreciated the change to the battle mechanics and the lack of grind, but wasn't too enthused with the strange characters, and the storyline and how they tied it into CT. It's definitely a game that I'll have to replay at some point...

...but first, I will have to give Radical Dreamers a chance. It's probably gonna be the next game I play once I finish with Ys Origin and Gunman's Proof.

[Labombadog]

I do plan on replaying this game again VERY soon. I fucking love this game. Square really isn't what they used to be :(

[_Keiichi_]

Burn the game and pretend it doesn't exist.

Seriously, fuck you Chrono Cross.

And fuck myself for all the time i spent on Chrono Compendium trying to piece together your shitty, nonsensical plot.

[JumpingTheGun]

Speaking as a Trigger purist, it's one of my favorite games of all time and gets shat on way too much by most other Trigger purists.

[ZombiePlatypus]

This thread makes me wonder what a new Chrono game would be like. (Also how fans would react to it and how Cross would fair in comparison.)

[JumpingTheGun]

Probably the traditional GAF Cycle would kick in: Everyone would get hyped as fuck, replay Cross and either re discover how great it is, or claim there was never originally anything wrong with it to begin with or both.

[Freedom = $1.05]

Is there a "this is how you are supposed to play this game" guide somewhere? I'd always get an hour or two in and felt like I wasn't playing it right, like I was missing something, especially when it comes to the battle system.

[Imm0rt4l]

God tier OST.

[Splatt]

I loved the game as a kid. Great music and an interesting battle system. I hadn't played Chrono Trigger before CC, so seeing enemies before you battle them was a novel thing for me. Especially after FF8 and FF9.

I remember being stuck after Serge turned into Lynx, because my grasp of english was so bad that I didn't understand that I had to use the amulet on the beach in order to advance the story.

[Power Stranger]

My favorite single player game of all time. I was absolutely in love with this game as a child. It is still the only JRPG I have ever finished and I played through it multiple times.

Hhhhh...

Good ole Chrono Cross...

[StuBurns]

I thought it was excellent. Nothing compared to Trigger, but in isolation, wonderful. Visually remarkable, and probably the best game soundtrack ever. I really hope SCEE get their PS1 import shit sorted so I can play it again.

[dot]

I played this back in the day for a little bit. I recall the music being amazing and quite beautiful, especially that opening theme.

Never got to beat it though. I really need to play this game again.

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I loved the game. I thought it was memorable as one of the best PS1 RPGs not as a Chrono sequel. I think Chrono Trigger will always be the more important game and considered the better game, but I enjoyed Cross more.

[Bearded Dudebro]

I played this game when it first came out, got to the last boss then gave up. I returned to it 8 years later and finished it. It was the first RPG i've ever beaten.

[BKJest]

It's the best JRPG I have ever played even though nostalgia tips me in favour of Chrono Trigger and FFVI sometimes.

Its soundtrack, art style and battle mechanics are truly something special and it has a lot of memorable moments. And even though there seem to be some people who (really) don't seem to like it's story it's perfectly fine for me.

[SatelliteOfLove]

Burn the game and pretend it doesn't exist.

Wrong.

The battle music sucks though, damn is it grating.

Wrong.

I really wish that Square hadn't tried to make the game into a Suikoden clone. There were way too many characters in the game. It took away from the few characters that were actually important to the story and none of them had any real development.

Wrong.

It's a nice looking game, but that's about all it has going for it. The character designs are some of the worst in a Square game during the PS1 era and the soundtrack is one of Mitsuda's weakest. The only good songs in Chrono Cross were the remixes of Chrono Trigger songs.

Jesus CHRIST the WRONG here, I'm drowning in it.

[To Far Away Times]

I think Chrono Cross might have the best ever combination of visuals and music in a videogame. Even if the visuals are dated, its evocative as fuck. If nothing else, it's worth a play through just to see how well visuals and music can be combined to create such a compelling world.

But then you also get Chrono Cross' deep and unique battle system; which eschews the random battles that were so predominate at the time.

The difficulty is perfect. Due to you only leveling up after certain events, the game more or less knows what level you will be at in certain areas, and the difficulty is set accordingly. You have opportunities to do optional stuff and get additional levels, but you cannot grind and out-level everything in this game.

It isn't a remake of Chrono Trigger with a 2 slapped on the end of it. It's a new game with new ideas that is tied to the original. It's how sequels should be.

It's my favorite RPG of all time.

[the mark]

Nice to see some CC-love. :)
Quite possible the best PS1-Game.
Definitely one of the best Soundtracks ever.

[Muffdraul]

When Chrono Cross came out, I played through it multiple times back to back to get all of the characters, do every sidequest, see all of the endings, etc. Loved every second of every play through. But the burnout was so severe that I still feel it to this day. Last time I tried to play it was whenever it hit PSN, I downloaded it and started it up, nope, still know it like the back of my hand. I liked it more than Chrono Trigger. Never really put either one on a pedestal, though.

[Ninjimbo]

I felt the loss when Harle left the party. Video games need more franglais speaking harlequins.

[Zwei]

Video games need more franglais speaking harlequins.

It's hard to disagree with that! :D

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

Man I sure do love Chrono Cross. The characters, plot, music and atmosphere everything is incredible. Chrono Trigger and Cross are my all time favorite games. I think they are just about perfect and I probably wouldn't change much in them at all. They are the epitome of what a wonderfully crated game world can be.

And Karst, as a CC hater I respect your opinion on the subject. Every CC topic turns to a I love / hate it war, but the music is good. Every....single....time. I appreciate that your posts are thought out and intelligent and even with good merit.

What floors me is why people can't see WHY people like and dislike the game.

For the love it camp - Can't see you see that what you like about the game (Convolted and complex plot, atmosphere and general aesthetics, characters, relation to CT and so forth) might turn a lot of others off. It's not Chrono Trigger 2 but it is VERY much a sequel, but at the same time takes a lot of piecing together and a lot of post game analysis. CC has a lot of info dump moments and it can easily confuse the player who is not 100% invested into it. Lots of times things might not make sense and might not ever make sense unless your a die hard fan and scours for the details.

For the haters camp - Don't you realize we like the overly complex plot with it's insane CT relation. You hate it and I understand it, but we like it. The differing art and tone that is completely different from CT has it's own style and vision. Some people may prefer CT's 7 unique characters or some might actually prefer customed designed characters they switch out on a whim. Just the overall direction the series went after CT in general.

In general what you hate, other will like. Nothing is perfect and nothing is beloved by all. I don't like the rocksteady batman games that much but I don't go around talking that it's a travesty to the batman name and it should be forgotten. Chrono Trigger is my all time favorite game and I love the direction of where Cross went. If there ever was another game I would love a game that takes place inbetween Trigger and Cross with the Crono and the gang to show what really became of them and not what was implied.

[Psxphile]

Is there a "this is how you are supposed to play this game" guide somewhere? I'd always get an hour or two in and felt like I wasn't playing it right, like I was missing something, especially when it comes to the battle system.

*shrugs* From reading some of the posts here in this thread I get the feeling that their way of playing differs from my own, so that's probably a natural reaction to have towards the battle system. Like, I'm hearing it's bad to allow your stamina to go into the negatives... to which I say: "So-the-fuck-what?". Stamina regeneration is trivial in this game.

Feel free to expend 6 stamina points (out of a possible 7) on meleeing w/ direct attacks and then follow up by using an Element, which expends a full 7 points. Your 1st party member will be at -6, but will increase (if their Stamina Recovery stat = 1.0 or better) back to 7 by the time your 3rd party member expends all of his/her points. Rinse and repeat. For this reason alone I avoid characters with Stamina Recovery at 0.8/0.9 (although there are accessories that will increase it, but I'd rather not waste a slot on that) because then I could end up cycling back to a character w/ 5.8 points to expend (though you can alleviate that by skipping to someone else and meleeing a Weak attack or two to get 'em back up).

The Field Effect I tend to ignore in most cases, as it rarely helps nor hinders during regular battles. However, during boss battles it can act as all party buffer/enemy debuffer if you keep casting Elements that go against the enemy's own Element/Innate color.

[onemic]

Amazing game people hate on because of its lack of being a direct sequel to chrono trigger. By itself the game is one of the best rpgs available for the ps1

[ubercheez]

Feel free to expend 6 stamina points (out of a possible 7) on meleeing w/ direct attacks and then follow up by using an Element, which expends a full 7 points.

This is always how I've played it. I'm confused about how that's "bad."

[LadyRiven]

Almost everyone who dislikes and/or hates on this game does so due to its name/it being a sequel to Trigger. My advice is ignore that it is. While there are technically ties to Trigger they are barely there and not really prevalent until very late in the game anyways. This is one of the reasons people don't like it (as well as what happens with Trigger's elements when they do finally show up) but if you can get over the fact that it isn't really a direct sequel to that game you will likely come to love it. To this day Chrono Cross is one of my favourite JRPGs...like top 5. I definitely think its battle system is unique, its soundtrack one of the best in gaming, its plot interesting and surprising, and its characters fun and memorable. And yes I do personally like it better than Trigger, though that game was fantastic as well...and in general they really aren't all that comparable. This game is a masterpiece. To the person who complained about not being able to get all of the characters in one play-through (or even two)...that's part of the point. The choices in the game are significant and that is part of what makes the game cool (and it adds replay-ability anyways since different choices can lead to different events and characters). The game already has 50 some odd characters and you can only use 3 at once. That means there are more than enough to replace whatever role someone miss-able may have filled, and also allows people to form hundreds of different kind of parties based around characters they like instead of being shoehorned into using the same 3-10 every time you play the game.

[bob page]

Even with its flaws, I loved it. Something about it just felt really unique and it stuck with me.

+1 for the amazing soundtrack.