[Nirolak]

Yup, that's pretty much what I think. They should just call it Source 2 to shut up all the people who are insistent on thinking that Source is still the same engine it was in 2005.

My thoughts exactly. I'm pretty sure it'll be the same degree of new features and what-have-you they add to Source with each new game. No big Unreal 2.0 -> 3.0 leap. Just helpful new additions.

Well, here's what they last said:

Backstepper: MasterGir asks: ‘Will Valve ever update the source SDK, especially Hammer?’ Newell: Oh yeah, we’re spending a tremendous amount of time on tools right now. So, our current tools are... very painful, so we probably are spending more time on tools development now than anything else and when we’re ready to ship those I think everybody’s life will get a lot better. Just way too hard to develop content right now, both for ourselves and for third-parties so we’re going to make enormously easier and simplify that process a lot.

Source: http://www.thesteamcast.com/episodes...transcript.pdf

[NBtoaster]

Are DOTA2 and CS:GO maps still BSPs?

[ekim]

There is indeed a EP3 hint in the file:

There are two coding segments here which are of interest to us. Here is one, starting from line 49: def content(): ”’ returns a Path instance representing the %VCONTENT% path – path construction this way is super easy: somePropPath = content() / ‘ep3/models/characters/alyx/maya/alyx_model.ma’ ”’ global _CONTENT

Source

[Visualante2]

Don't quite get why they're not talking about this at SIGGRAPH, maybe they want to reveal Episode 3 with it.

I'm not seeing the BSP hate either, if you make mapping too complex the community isn't going to be able to produce content for it. I think sticking with BSP but adding in more modern approaches too would be best. BSP has all those benefits in terms of lighting and optimisation.

Can someone smarter than me explain why they are using Qt? I always assumed it had no use outside of Nokia devices.

Qt is open sourced I believe. Source Film Maker uses it already. It's good because they can deploy tools on Mac, Linux as well easier.

beaten, didn't see the second page.

[Stallion Free]

Are DOTA2 and CS:GO maps still BSPs?

Yep.

[km3k]

At line 1399, it references "source", "hybrid" and "source2" as engines:

if 'source2' in projDir:
    return ENGINE.SOURCE2
elif ( 'hybrid' in projDir ) or ( 'l4d2port' in projDir ):
    return ENGINE.HYBRID
else:
    return ENGINE.SOURCE

This "hybrid" is really interesting. l4d2port could be the Linux Left 4 Dead 2 port. This would also support the idea that Source 2 is just a continuation of the previous iterations of Source. And it implies L4D2 for Linux is some sort of hybrid between "Source" and "Source 2".

[RoboPlato]

The time seems right for Source 2. When the latest hardware survey showed that more people had DX11 cards than DX10 cards it seems like Valve would now be willing to really start focusing on adding those features. I hope it's as mindblowing as Source was in 2004.

[MRORANGE]

makes we wonder why they didn't just wait for Source 2 for CS:GO, with only a year a and a bit for next gen the shelf life on console for that game will be considerable short.

[Rapstah]

At line 1399, it references "source", "hybrid" and "source2" as engines: if 'source2' in projDir: return ENGINE.SOURCE2 elif ( 'hybrid' in projDir ) or ( 'l4d2port' in projDir ): return ENGINE.HYBRID else: return ENGINE.SOURCE This "hybrid" is really interesting. l4d2port could be the Linux Left 4 Dead 2 port. This would also support the idea that Source 2 is just a continuation of the previous iterations of Source. And it implies L4D2 for Linux is some sort of hybrid between "Source" and "Source 2".

"Hybrid" is probably just what they're on right now. Portal 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 aren't compatible with old tools anymore. And besides, both those games were ported to consoles, which would probably require some large-scale changes in the engine. Doesn't have to be a hybrid between Source 1 and Source 2.

[SniperHunter]

hmm I was expecting a DX11 update to source but not an entirely new engine...wonder what Valve is up to?

[sTeLioSco]

There is indeed a EP3 hint in the file: Source

great...

so there will be an episode 3(not hl3,probably they would make hl3 later they wont stop the franchise)

also they use maya

hmm I was expecting a DX11 update to source but not an entirely new engine...wonder what Valve is up to?

simple.a completely new engine that will utilize next-gen consoles and technologies better.....
also episode 3 will be next gen along with other games that will use source2.....

after releasing counter strike and dota2 valve next year should show what will release later.accidentally next gen consoles are also releasing next year so their projects could be on that consoles....

[Rapstah]

great... so there will be an episode 3(not hl3,probably they would make hl3 later they wont stop the franchise) also they use maya

There have been episode 3 folder hints dropped since Alien Swarm. That doesn't actually mean the project inside that folder is Episode 3 anymore. A lot of Half-Life 2's Nova Prospekt assets are stored inside the "wasteland" folder, but the Wasteland chapter was dropped before beta, for example.

[Opus Angelorum]

...wonder what Valve is up to?

I think this is a nod to next generation consoles.

[Visualante2]

makes we wonder why they didn't just wait for Source 2 for CS:GO, with only a year a and a bit for next gen the shelf life on console for that game will be considerable short.

Disagree, CS fans are the most neglected of Valve's. I don't think Valve even knows what CS2 is going to be.

also they use maya

Was already known, scripts in the SDK were all MEL.

There have been episode 3 folder hints dropped since Alien Swarm. That doesn't actually mean the project inside that folder is Episode 3 anymore. A lot of Half-Life 2's Nova Prospekt assets are stored inside the "wasteland" folder, but the Wasteland chapter was dropped before beta, for example.

Not really a tech related problem but that's a big gripe for Source. Fucking archaic sourcing system is so bad that even Valve leave shit in the wrong place because recompiling is such a pain in the ass.

[SniperHunter]

I think this is a nod to next generation consoles.

yea possibly! Source 1.0 is a terrible engine...textures are poor, can't do destruction, antique shaders, particle effects also weak. I am glad they moved on!

[Xun]

Not at all surprising.

[Pai Pai Master]

But now I want Dota2 to be on Source 2 and be even more amazing.

[Metalic]

Lets hope it is as mind blowing as Source 1.0 back in 2004.

[SniperHunter]

Lets hope it is as mind blowing as Source 1.0 back in 2004.

It wasn't mind blowing except for the physics. Doom 3 looked better (even though it was a corridor shooter)

[LabouredSubterfuge]

yea possibly! Source 1.0 is a terrible engine...textures are poor, can't do destruction, antique shaders, particle effects also weak. I am glad they moved on!

It wasn't mind blowing except for the physics. Doom 3 looked better (even though it was a corridor shooter)

Oh my.

[SniperHunter]

Oh my.

forgot to mention the poor loading implementation.

I remember playing Doom 3 on my ancient computer with a 9800 pro, it looked so good and ran at 15 FPS...good times!

[Stallion Free]

But now I want Dota2 to be on Source 2 and be even more amazing.

That wouldn't be fair to Blizzard since Dota 2 already destroys their visuals on any recently released game.

[Sh1ner]

forgot to mention the poor loading implementation. I remember playing Doom 3 on my ancient computer with a 9800 pro, it looked so good and ran at 15 FPS...good times!

Me and you are 9800 pro buddies man, I did the same thing. Sniff good times.

[SniperHunter]

Me and you are 9800 pro buddies man, I did the same thing. Sniff good times.

I only got it cause one mainstream gaming mag said it would run both Half Life 2 and Doom 3 really well. But yea, it was one of the best GPU's at the time! It ran Battlefield 1942 really well too ^_^

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

yea possibly! Source 1.0 is a terrible engine...textures are poor, can't do destruction, antique shaders, particle effects also weak. I am glad they moved on!

Whatthehellareyoutalkingabout?

[SniperHunter]

Whatthehellareyoutalkingabout?

It's outdated compared to most top of the line engines today....do you play PC games at all? or are you trying to say that Source holds up well against Cry Engine 3 or Frostbite engine 2.0?

[Tain]

or even UE3

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

It's outdated compared to most top of the line engines today....do you play PC games at all? or are you trying to say that Source holds up well against Cry Engine 3 or Frostbite engine 2.0?

Yes, I play PC games. There are good chances I was already playing PC games even before you learned to speak.
And I know what the shortcomings of Source are today, i even pointed them myself in a previous post in this thread.

Still, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Bad textures? Where? When? according to what meter? Compared to what?

It "can't do destruction"? Source was one of the early adopters of Havok. It essentially introduced physics and destruction in games.
If you are talking about the more modern "Battlefiled-like" destruction, on the other hand, virtually no other engine beside Frostbite 2 offers it.

[DarkSoul520]

makes we wonder why they didn't just wait for Source 2 for CS:GO, with only a year a and a bit for next gen the shelf life on console for that game will be considerable short.

I thought the same thing when CS:GO was announced. Very weird decision on Valve's part.

[derFeef]

yea possibly! Source 1.0 is a terrible engine...textures are poor, can't do destruction, antique shaders, particle effects also weak. I am glad they moved on!

lol. It's like saying the Intel Pentium was a lousy CPU. Bad performance, expensive, glad they moved on to i7!

[Exuro]

Man, Valve has so many projects underway. They should totally reveal a Valvecon at The International.

Also, I figure this will be an "incremental" update, however, moreso than others. So this would be the big DX11 jump to get the platform more future proof. Also deferred lighting is a no brainer since that one dude took the time himself to add it to Alien Swarm.

Someone mentioned Workshop with the new tools. It would be amazing if they revamped the mod section on Steam(I'm not even sure if it still exists) using these tools for easy to upload mods to try out through Steam. It honestly sounds like they're going to try and make an even more streamlined process of making and selling games by using Source 2 to create your game and then having the hooks to support any Steam features seamlessly along with uploading to Steam itself.

[Randdalf]

Calling this now: Valve is going to release a new Revision of Source, essentially a 2.0 that massively overhauls the Hammer tools so that they are significantly to use without tutorials similar to the Portal editor. -The engine will be accessible to anyone using Steam -It will be tied to Steam Workshop -They will use a similar licensing deal to UDK for devs wishing to sell a game on it. -It will also have simple Steam Greenlight submission hooks.

Remember that they still need to use this tool professionally to make levels, if it exists it'd be nothing like the Portal 2 editor, and you'd definitely still need tutorials.

yea possibly! Source 1.0 is a terrible engine...textures are poor, can't do destruction, antique shaders, particle effects also weak. I am glad they moved on!

What are you on about? I don't know if you've ever played Dota 2, but the particle effects in that game are some of the best I've ever seen. Heck, an entire hero is just one complex particle effect!

[Interfectum]

That wouldn't be fair to Blizzard since Dota 2 already destroys their visuals on any recently released game.

Yup. Jumping between Diablo 3 and Dota2 is crazy. They'd just be trolling Blizzard if they improved Dota2's visuals anymore.

[SniperHunter]

Yes, I play PC games. There are good chances I was already playing PC games even before you learned to speak.

Why does this matter? What does that have to do with anything? WTF?

Still, I have no idea what you are talking about. Bad textures? Where? When? according to what meter? Compared to what?

Bad textures compared to most other PC games...loading is just so bad, the engine can't afford high res textures. All the environment textures in all Valve games I have played are extremely poor. Even the gravity gun in Episode 2 had low res metal textures.

It "can't do destruction"? Source was one of the early adopters of Havok. It essentially introduced physics and destruction in games. If you are talking about the more modern "Battlefiled-like" destruction, on the other hand, virtually no other engine beside Frostbite 2 offers it.

yes, I was talking about "Battlefield destruction" I know it's smoke and mirror's but it's at least something...environments in Valve games are so static.

You know what, forget I said anything! The valve fanboys here are just as too rabid....

[Luigi87]

Backstepper: MasterGir asks: ‘Will Valve ever update the source SDK, especially Hammer?’ Newell: Oh yeah, we’re spending a tremendous amount of time on tools right now. So, our current tools are... very painful, so we probably are spending more time on tools development now than anything else and when we’re ready to ship those I think everybody’s life will get a lot better. Just way too hard to develop content right now, both for ourselves and for third-parties so we’re going to make enormously easier and simplify that process a lot.

Ooh, I hope this also means easier modding. I personally find modding to getting things into Source to be a pain in the ass <_<

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Why does this matter? What does that have to do with anything? WTF?

Aren't you the one who started questioning my experience with PC games in the first place? That's why it matters.
I've been playing PC games since the '89. Even before, if we are going to count even computers that weren't strictly what we call "PCs" today.

[SniperHunter]

Aren't you the one who started questioning my experience with PC games in the first place? That's why it matters. I've been playing PC games since the '89. Even before, if we are going to count even computers that weren't strictly what we call "PCs" today. So yeah, I have played PC games. A shitload of them.

I didn't question anything. I have two sets of eyes and I can tell one graphically impressive game from the other. I don't understand what you are trying to say. So, since you have been gaming on PC's since 1989 therefore, only your opinions are the valid? Come one bro....

Crysis came back in 2007 and it destroys Source. Source engine reached it's peak performance with Half Life 2 Episode 2. All I am saying is that the engine is outdated, I welcome the fact Valve is working on a new engine. I WANT Valve's next gen games to look better than Crysis.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

I didn't question anything. I have two sets of eyes and I can tell one graphically impressive game from the other. I don't understand what you are trying to say. So, since you have been gaming on PC's since 1989 therefore, only your opinions are the valid? Come one bro....

Come on, now. Are you shitting me? That's what you wrote:

It's outdated compared to most top of the line engines today....do you play PC games at all?

I just answered your question.

[BrokenEchelon]

Half-Life 3 on Source 2 in November of 2013.

PC/PS4/720.

Believe.

[SniperHunter]

Come on, now. Are you shitting me? That's what you wrote: I just answered your question.

It was a sarcastic statement, your defence of this archaic engine is anger inducing.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

your defence of this archaic engine is anger inducing.

Wha-
The Hell are y-
No, you know what? Nevermind.

[Tempy]

Source is a really outdated engine, and Valve is really many years late with a complete overhaul already. They might get by in the looks department, but the development process and tools are held back badly (Valve time anyone?). People should be happy, not sad, that they're moving on.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Source is a really outdated engine, and Valve is really many years late with a complete overhaul already. They might get by in the looks department, but the development process and tools are held back badly (Valve time anyone?). People should be happy, not sad, that they're moving on.

Can't say I read a single comment from someone unhappy about this (rumored) upgrade.

[Blizzard]

A major overhaul of the engine sounds good and rather needed at this point. TF2's performance problems and crashes have been around for quite a while, and yes data streaming is something they should have.

I agree that Stallion Free's suggestions seem reasonable. Putting Source up as a UDK/CryEngine3 alternative seems possible. UDK already has Steamworks integration, though I don't know about CE3.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

Putting Source up as a UDK/CryEngine3 alternative seems possible. UDK already has Steamworks integration, though I don't know about CE3.

maybe I'm dowplaying their ambtions about this upgrade, but I don't think they will ever going to compete with Cryengine and UE as commercial option.

[Hari Seldon]

Hopefully it allows them to make L4D3 into some type of polished DayZ game haha.

[Alien Bob]

Source engine reached it's peak performance with Half Life 2 Episode 2.

What in the holy hell?

[sTeLioSco]

Half-Life 3 on Source 2 in November of 2014. PC/PS4/720. Believe.

fixed...

[Blizzard]

maybe I'm dowplaying their ambtions about this upgrade, but I don't think they will ever going to compete with Cryengine and UE as commercial option.

Perhaps not, but if they put all their effort into focusing on that, it will give them an excuse to put off HL3/episode4/part5 for another 4 years or so!

[LiK]

HL1 REMAKE