[Wallach]

Yeah, legally there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

...I don't think this thread is about the legality of what his father did.

[metalslimer]

Pretty sure you're not suppose to insult people. Yeah, legally there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Who is talking about legality in this thread? No one. So who are you arguing with, and I'm sorry for the "insult" (although that was based on the idea of you actually believed that nonsense) but seeing nothing wrong with parents abandoning their children in one of their biggest times of need is disgusting to me. Oh and there are many kids who need their parents support to get through the college system which is expensive as hell so cutting them off even after 18 is despicable as you are threatening their life chances. I don't think a real parent could do this to their child if they actually loved them. So if you actually see nothing morally wrong here (who care about legally) than I stand by my statement that that is a fucked up person.

[Magni]

It is emotionally upsetting for me, too.

Do you truly believe that there has never been a single real decision ever taken by anyone anywhere? That if we hit reset, every single second would play out exactly the same for the billions who have lived on Earth these past 200,000 years?

[Exterminieren]

Yeah, legally there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

If you think we're talking legality, rather than, say, the moral implications of cutting your son out of your life in such a manner, then I don't think you have much to contribute to the debate.

[Speevy]

I'm a heterosexual Christian and I think this letter is absolutely disgusting and deplorable. This man should be ashamed of himself.

[Yasae]

He didn't beat on his son, he didn't try to kill his son. He just said I no longer want to be around you, and that was it. They were both adults, the dad already raised the kid. In no way was he obligated to keep seeing his son. At least the dad told his son how he felt instead of trying to pretend like it didn't bother the dad. I much rather have people be honest with me, then put up a front just to be politically correct.

In the world of terrible parenting, certainly.

[CrushDance]

Wasn't it legal to bar minorities from white only establishments? This isn't about legality(That's a road littered with minefields), but about "morality" as has been heavily debated. Which although it pains me to say so, morality is subjective.

[JaxJag]

I'm just trying to point out that the father felt a certain way. It's not right to expect him to hide how he feels, and pretend it didn't bother him.

He didn't try and change his son, he respected how his son felt, and just said he didn't want to be around him anymore.

Really have to look at it from both sides.

[Acerac]

I can't imagine using the word faggot to belittle someone who is gay. Growing up it was commonly used to just describe someone who is being lame. I know people have said this and people will say that it is still being used to offend people who are gay, but at what point does the connotation of the word change? Louis CK on the matter is exactly how I feel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IFloXOuLgA And I'm sure many will agree with me. That said, I rarely use the word now and I don't know when that change happened, but it's partially self awareness because I don't want to offend anyone.

Is it like the people who claim that nigger is used to describe any ignorant person? They say that to keep their conscience clean, but it's amazing how often the term is thrown at black people.

Similarly, I have tended to notice how often fag is used towards somebody that is likely gay. Fag isn't always used to insult gays, but it's the go to insult when dealing with them.

[xxracerxx]

He didn't beat on his son, he didn't try to kill his son. He just said I no longer want to be around you, and that was it. They were both adults, the dad already raised the kid. In no way was he obligated to keep seeing his son. At least the dad told his son how he felt instead of trying to pretend like it didn't bother the dad. I much rather have people be honest with me, then put up a front just to be politically correct.

This post makes me glad that I have a wonderful dad who would accept me no matter what.

I hope when you have a kid (if you do), that you won't just abandon him if you disagree with who he is.

I'm just trying to point out that the father felt a certain way. It's not right to expect him to hide how he feels, and pretend it didn't bother him. He didn't try and change his son, he respected how his son felt, and just said he didn't want to be around him anymore. Really have to look at it from both sides.

There really is no "both sides" argument for me. Do you understand how emotionally crushing it would be if a parent or someone equally as close to you in life just decides to shun you?

[cutmeamango]

If my imaginary son says he is gay, he'll receive a box full of imaginary chocolate penises in his next imaginary birthday.

[B-Dubs]

I'm just trying to point out that the father felt a certain way. It's not right to expect him to hide how he feels, and pretend it didn't bother him. He didn't try and change his son, he respected how his son felt, and just said he didn't want to be around him anymore. Really have to look at it from both sides.

That's true, but its still a dick move. The only time its ok to disown your kid is if they commit mass murder or something like that. The fact is he put his religion above his kid, nothing should be above your kid.

[metalslimer]

I'm just trying to point out that the father felt a certain way. It's not right to expect him to hide how he feels, and pretend it didn't bother him. He didn't try and change his son, he respected how his son felt, and just said he didn't want to be around him anymore. Really have to look at it from both sides.

Sure if your a shit parent I'm sure the thought of abandoning your son means nothing, but for actual decent human beings they will suck it up even if they are extremely disappointed in their children. He let some old book come in between him and his kid.

[catfish]

Amazing. who the fuck writes a LETTER to say something that shit.
what an amazing douchebag. Hilarious that he's now famous because of it.

If anyone deserves cancer, it's the letter writer.

[JaxJag]

That's true, but its still a dick move. The only time its ok to disown your kid is if they commit mass murder or something like that. The fact is he put his religion above his kid, nothing should be above your kid.

But it's how his dad felt.

Really, the dad deserves props for being honest.

[Yasae]

I'm just trying to point out that the father felt a certain way. It's not right to expect him to hide how he feels, and pretend it didn't bother him. He didn't try and change his son, he respected how his son felt, and just said he didn't want to be around him anymore. Really have to look at it from both sides.

Ok but that's still bad parenting. "Welp, sorry son but uh.. Yeah that gay thing just isn't gonna work for me. Bon voyage!" Of all the things in the world to choose, that's the one?

[Vagabundo]

You don't really have to apologize for other people's horrible behavior because you share some beliefs with them. That dad is really a piece of shit guy.

It's not even a christian thing to do. I don't know what these people are, but they don't seem to follow the teachings of christ.

[metalslimer]

But it's how his dad felt. Really, the dad deserves props for being honest.

No he doesn't. He would have deserved props for being honest about his feelings but still staying in contact with his son. How the hell do you think someone deserves props for emotionally devastating their kid? Do you understand the bond that kids have with their parents and how horrible it is for that bond to be broken? Especially over something you have no choice over?

[B-Dubs]

Amazing. who the fuck writes a LETTER to say something that shit. what an amazing douchebag. Hilarious that he's now famous because of it. If anyone deserves cancer, it's the letter writer.

Woah there. No one deserves cancer. My grandfather, who was a bit of a dick, died from lung cancer. It was the worst thing I have ever seen, no one on earth ever deserves to go through that. No one, ever.

[Exterminieren]

He didn't try and change his son, he respected how his son felt, and just said he didn't want to be around him anymore.

“I hope your telephone call was not to receive my blessing for the degrading of your lifestyle,” it begins. “I have fond memories of our time together, but that is all in the past.” In the letter, James’ father goes on to cut off contact with his son. “No communications at all,” he writes. “I will not come to visit, nor do I want you in my house.” He continues, “You’ve made your choice though wrong it may be. God did not intend for this unnatural lifestyle.”

That doesn't seem much like respecting his son's feelings to me.

Really have to look at it from both sides.

This bullshit false equivalence has to stop. Looking at it both sides only works when both sides are on an equal footing, and they absolutely 100% are not here.
Bending over backwards to justify the dad's actions with "At least he didn't try and change him!" is sickening bullshit, by the way.

But it's how his dad felt. Really, the dad deserves props for being honest.

I can't believe what I'm reading. I literally can't.
It's certainly interesting that you've displayed far more sympathy for the dad than the son thus far.

[Mumei]

I'm just trying to point out that the father felt a certain way. It's not right to expect him to hide how he feels, and pretend it didn't bother him. He didn't try and change his son, he respected how his son felt, and just said he didn't want to be around him anymore. Really have to look at it from both sides.

He does not respect how his son feels. He is so disgusted by his son's homosexuality that he is disowning him. He threw away the last however-many years of their relationship, every memory, all the - pardon the phrase - blood, sweat, and tears that go into raising his child on the basis of his son being gay. That is what he has reduced his son to in his mind. It is his bigotry that causes him to disown his child. And please don't whitewash the significance of that fact. Imagine if the man in this story had come out to this same father when he was 13 or 14, and he had thrown him out onto the streets. This is something that over a quarter of gay teens hear when they come out. Would you still be defending him? Do you defend them?

[Emitan]

Amazing. who the fuck writes a LETTER to say something that shit. what an amazing douchebag. Hilarious that he's now famous because of it. If anyone deserves cancer, it's the letter writer.

No.

[Yasae]

But it's how his dad felt. Really, the dad deserves props for being honest.

Obvious, your trolling is.

[xxracerxx]

No he doesn't. He would have deserved props for being honest about his feelings but still staying in contact with his son. How the hell do you think someone deserves props for emotionally devastating their kid?

Seriously.

Hey son, I see you have made a choice to like ketchup in your mac & cheese.....well never contact me again. - Dad

At least he is being honest, jesus.

[Magni]

But it's how his dad felt. Really, the dad deserves props for being honest.

You are either trolling or have no idea what family means. Its his fucking son.

Son, I'm kicking you out of my life because I don't like the fact that you're taller than me. Some old fart read in some weird book that it was unnatural for sons to be taller than their fathers, that it was against the fairy dude's will. Clearly that's more important than everything we had while you were growing up, and everything we would have were I not such a fucking bigot and kicking you out of my life for something you had absolutely no responsibility for.

Cheers,
Dad

P.S. Hey, at least I'm being honest with you, [insert equivalent of 'faggot' for tall people]!

[sikkinixx]

When I was younger there was a neighbour that always screamed at everyone. We called him "neck vain" since his neck got so red from yelling at us.

Turns out dude disowned his gay son years earlier and his son committed suicide, leaving a note saying something along the lines of if my own parents can't accept who I am, then what kind of world is this.

Buddy was still was adamantly anti-gay and wouldn't make any mention of his son. Still makes me mad thinking someone could do that to family.

[Xarudace]

A lot of people have been jumping on you for your comments, and in my opinion, they're utterly justified in doing so. However, you're putting a lot of focus on mutual respect, so I'll try to say what people have been saying for the past two pages, but in a manner that is less hostile towards you. You are running the argument that calling people out on their bigoted beliefs is, in fact, also bigotry. You said in your post that from your perspective, hating homosexuals is ridiculous and hateful, so I think we can all agree on that being bigoted. They have various justifications, but at the end of the day, they feel like an entire class of people should be treated as second-class citizens. Now, you posted a definition from dictionary.com that includes disdain for bigotry as bigotry. To try and give you an argument you'll find suitable, I found this scrolling further down that same page: Example Sentence:To be a bigot means that you hold negative views of a group despite evidence. With this in mind, there is a difference between prejudicial hatred and a lack of respect for the opinions of those with prejudicial hatred. While you said it was a matter of perspective, you also said that you do not think anyone who opposes this is thinking sanely or clearly on the subject. That is where the concept of evidence comes in, the concept of not treating people like shit, the science that it's not a choice, etc. Using this metric, it makes sense to call out hateful opinions when they rear themselves. Lastly, as many others have pointed out, segregation was ended forcefully by the Supreme Court, much to the chagrin of Southern States, and given the way justices are chosen, popular opinion did not come into things. I hope that clears things up, and you found it respectful enough. :)

I like you.

I'm not saying they're being bigots for hating bigots. I'm saying they're being bigots because they are doing the exact same thing the homophobes are. They feel that, since they've reasoned it out in their heads, no one can possibly disagree with what they are saying and not be an idiot. They do not care that this issue far transcends mere equality, but rather speaks to the emotional and philosophical foundations of many people's beliefs. The gay rights supports who cry bigotry completely ignore the justifications the religious have and just hate them without any real consideration of their ideas. This is also bigotry. They don't like hearing this because it's the nasty word they like to throw around as an ad hominem to make the homophobes look worse, but frankly they are no better. It's this issue that I'm trying to impress upon all of them.

See, the thing is, the Christians have "evidence" that speaks to their belief. You may not think it holds much weight, but they do. You can't prove their evidence is incorrect any more than you can prove that people should have equal rights. These are purely subjective concepts. You see it as being hateful, that's fine I agree, but they do not and they believe you will be a better person and live a happier life if you are not gay. Born that way or not, it really doesn't make a difference.

Regarding the Supreme Court thing, my point is misunderstood because I have no elaborated. The Supreme Court is overruled by constitutional amendments. So, if the majority of the country is against an idea, it can be amended into the Constitution. Furthermore, you do need to convince the Justices that what you say is correct as well. Popular opinion does make a difference in how Justices rule because they are part of the masses and they will have opinions on the matter also. You have to convince them and I can guarantee that if blacks did nothing but create riots like Malcolm X wanted, there would be no racial rights.

Not that the Supreme Court thing is really the thing any gay rights activists should be working towards. The Supreme Court really likes to stray away from issues that belong to the states (marriage) unless they absolutely must. It will be many, many years before the Supreme Court will rule on gay rights (especially since gays, by precedent, are only given the rational basis test, so they will need to overrule that and probably give them intermediate scrutiny like gender).

The appropriate venue to earn gay rights is through popular opinion. To get popular opinion, acting like a bunch of hateful lunatics is going to get you nowhere. For instance, I know quite a few people (I went to a Christian college, though I am not one) who believed that gays probably should have some form of marriage. However, after the whole Chik-Fil-A fiasco and the kiss-in, they no longer support gay marriage because they thought it was gross or whatever. This is anecdotal, sure, but I seriously doubt any undecided voters or on-the-fence voters were swayed toward gay rights by seeing a bunch of people kissing. To a lot of people, this is repulsive (whether it should be or not is irrelevant). You need to treat everyone with respect and demand, through your actions, their respect. You can't expect people to support your cause when all you do is attack them and generally act like fools.

Now I really am done. Don't forget, I support gay rights. I just think the message the gay community is sending to the public is one that very much works AGAINST them. I want them to succeed, so this needs to change.

[Jintor]

So we need to compromise for idiots to get things done, basically.

[Fiction]

I couldn't even make it through the letter. All I am going to say about the subject is that it's disgusting that a father would disown his son over it, and that kid doesn't need that kind of shit in his life anyways. I hope where ever he is, he is incredibly happy.

[Uchip]

It was meant more as a joke.

i dont know who to take seriously in a thread like this, sorry

If anyone deserves cancer, it's the letter writer.

but he is the cancer!

[HP_Wuvcraft]

he respected how his son felt, and just said he didn't want to be around him anymore.

I don't think he really respects his son if he's so angry with his "lifestyle choice" that he can't look at him.

I mean, seriously.

What about that says respect?

[defectivelasagna]

This makes me depressed and even more scared to come out to my parents. That door out of the closet seem farther now

[YoungHav]

I had a debate w/someone over homosexuality recently and they did that crybaby "my (stupid idiotic) homophobic beliefs should be respected!" lol

[The Adder]

Well, look at the standard I mentioned above. Would you write Christmas Cards addressed to both of them as a couple? Would you invite both to stay in your home on visits? When you say you "don't approve" but you love your SON what are you actually saying in a practical sense? How will that affect not your relationship with a son, but with the partner you disapprove of?

My uncle's gay. My grandmother is southern baptist and very much not a fan of homosexuality...

My uncle's SO is with the family every single Christmas and she treats him like a son.

Actually, he was in the family photo we took a couple years ago.

[Mr_Zombie]

Why are Gays always compared to what Blacks went through in the Civil Rights Movement. I think its not even comparable and almost insulting. Wouldn't it be more comparable to the women rights movement. I know I am jumping into a flame just trying to learn where that comes from. How do you guys find it similiar?

Both groups were/are treated like a second class citizens.
Both groups were/are ostracized in some communities.
Both groups were/are fighting for acceptance, equal treatment and equal rights.

[The Adder]

Both groups were/are treated like a second class citizens. Both groups were/are ostracized in some communities. Both groups were/are fighting for acceptance, equal treatment and equal rights.

No need for the word "were" there.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

This makes me depressed and even more scared to come out to my parents. That door out of the closet seem farther now

Are they level-headed people?

[Mr_Zombie]

You're right, that might sound unintentionally wrong :/

[xJavonta]

Good riddance, he doesn't need that asshole in his life.

[Dead Man]

I'm black. I have been through a lot of shit because of it. I used to use the word faggot a lot as a pre-teen, I was told that homosexuals were sinners and disease infested. I met a lot of gay people as I got older, and they were like everyone else that I'd met. They were flawed. Some of them were great, some not so much. And so I began to wonder what it was about homosexuals that made me hate on them. Sure I'd never actually attacked anyone even verbally. But it dawned on me that I was writing off an entire group of individuals without ever getting to know them. For me at-least, I'd taken the anger and frustration in my own life, and pointed it at something that I felt was easy. That everyone else was attacking and I could finally "fit in". It grossed me the hell out and I threw away a lot of that thinking. These are people from all walks of life who are simply trying to live how they wish and enjoy their time here on Earth as well. To me the comparison was instant and obvious. It horrified me that in the nineties and now, gay people were being beaten and killed just as bad as blacks were/are. At the time I'd thought that homosexuals and minorities in general could make great partners as we all faced the same struggles. But I soon came to realize that the powers that be, were more interested in keeping these groups apart than anything else. That is why when I see black pastors, brainwashed completely; harping about the sins and evil of homosexuality, it bothers me. Because these people do not realize or have seemingly forgotten, that their battle is still not over either and that the attention has only been shifted for now. Nobody should have to live in fear of who they truly are. It may be idealistic, but it's how I now view the world. I'd thought that blacks and gays would be an obvious pairing of beliefs, but it seems that going through hatred does not make me sympathetic to the plights of others as I'd hoped. The grip of religion on the black people in the U.S. is a huge culprit for this mental breakdown that they're suffering from. There should be no reason for the average black person in America to see a gay rally and march against it.

Awesome post. Thanks.

[PastorOfMuppets]

This thread, Jesus. Man, people on the internet will find ways to literally rationalize anything.

[Triple U]

This is so fucked up. No matter how much I dis-approve of my child's decisions, there is no way in hell I would have the gall to "dis-own" them. WTF does that even mean?

[Mistouze]

Another case of a christian who should have asked himself "What would Jesus do?" before doing dumb shit. Hope he turns around and that his son can forgive him.

[OnceLostHorizon]

Despicable. The thought of abandoning my son at a time when he needs my support more than ever makes my heart hurt. I don't know how this father can do such a thing.

Also:

The gay rights supports who cry bigotry completely ignore the justifications the religious have and just hate them without any real consideration of their ideas. This is also bigotry. They don't like hearing this because it's the nasty word they like to throw around as an ad hominem to make the homophobes look worse, but frankly they are no better. It's this issue that I'm trying to impress upon all of them.

Thank you. The word really is used far too often against religious people (or really anyone who doesn't completely agree with the entire LGBT agenda) when it really isn't appropriate. Hating someone because they are gay means you are a bigot..but merely disapproving of the lifestyle or whatever, whilst still acknowledging their right to exist and pursue their own happiness, is not a bigoted mindset. Please stop using it as a general insult against people who disagree with you.

Another case of a christian who should have asked himself "What would Jesus do?" before doing dumb shit. Hope he turns around and that his son can forgive him.

As if it's only Christians who do dumb shit? Don't stereotype.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

As if it's only Christians who do dumb shit? Don't stereotype.

Where did he imply only Christians did dumb shit?

The person in question was Christian.

[Mistouze]

As if it's only Christians who do dumb shit? Don't stereotype.

The father in question is christian, I'm not going to tell a muslim to ask himself "WWJD?"... Don't over-react, plenty of good people in every religions but having being raised as a catholic and even though I consider myself being an atheist the irony of the situation isn't wasted on me.

[OnceLostHorizon]

Fair enough.

[Vagabundo]

Another case of a christian who should have asked himself "What would Jesus do?" before doing dumb shit. Hope he turns around and that his son can forgive him.

I really think we should call these religious nuts by another name. "Christians" doesn't seem to fit, maybe Old Testies..

[Musha_Soturi]

What a horrible letter. Hope the son can come to terms with this and accept that he is better off without a father like that.

[jaxword]

Another case of a christian who should have asked himself "What would Jesus do?" before doing dumb shit.

Jesus would do what the father already wanted to do.