NeoGAF

Zaraki_Kenpachi · (08-10-2012, 02:08 AM)

Originally Posted by YesNOnoNOYes:

I've considered to change my gender, but I think it will break my father's heart :(

Anyway, every year that passes, it gets harder when my parents ask me why I haven't gotten a boyfriend. I don't know how long can I stay in the closet. I don't want to disappoint my father. But I just see myself as a boy, and there are days that I still wish I was born as one.

Dang. :( I'm sorry to say, I don't really know what to say so I can't, unfortunately, offer any advice but whatever you decide I hope whatever it is is something that you're still valuing yourself first and choose something that you are ok with and makes you happy. I realize you don't want to disappoint and I don't know the reaction but depending on what that does to you personally by potentially forcing yourself into something that you're not comfortable with it may be more painful than the alternative. Either way, I wish you the best of luck in finding happiness, it's a shame things like this are even a problem.

YesNOnoNOYes · (08-10-2012, 02:12 AM)

^

Thank you.

<3

CrocMother · (08-10-2012, 02:39 AM)

Originally Posted by jchap:

When you can genetically engineer your kids, I wonder how many will fix homosexuality

Even though you might be born with a preference, a person will always have the freedom to choose to love whatever and whichever person they please.

I do believe in a degree of self-determinism when it comes to sexuality, although I fear this sentiment is dying out.

yeoz · (08-10-2012, 03:26 AM)

Originally Posted by YesNOnoNOYes:

I've considered to change my gender, but I think it will break my father's heart :(

Anyway, every year that passes, it gets harder when my parents ask me why I haven't gotten a boyfriend. I don't know how long can I stay in the closet. I don't want to disappoint my father. But I just see myself as a boy, and there are days that I still wish I was born as one.

Hey, I've been there. You are not alone.

Worrying that it would break my parent's hearts, and crush the hopes and dreams they had for me. Worried about how my friends would come to accept this change. Wondering if I was throwing away any chance I had to start my own family. And eventually deciding that transitioning was something I had to do for myself, in spite of how everyone else felt about it. That it would be the only thing that would ever make things feel right for me. And, I can honestly say, I'm happier now than I've ever been before in my life.

I'm certainly not encouraging you to hop on the transgaf bandwagon right here and now, but, considering seeing a therapist, and exploring what your gender means to you, and whether transitioning would be right for you.
No matter what your dad might think, since, ultimately, it's your life, and you have to live it.

BlackGoku03 · (08-10-2012, 03:48 AM)

Originally Posted by Billiechu:

And you shouldn't auto-assume they will be straight. Or bisexual. Or asexual or *sexual.

No. I don't agree. Let's be real. People expect their kids to be straight. That's the norm. If you don't believe that then you aren't facing reality. Sorry.

There's always the possibility of something else. But it's normal for their expectations to be set to the norm.

Originally Posted by Mumei:

I understand this, but I think that perhaps I am construing "react" more narrowly than you are. When I am talking about the parent's reaction, I am talking about what your kid sees when they come out to you. I can understand having misgivings about him experiencing mistreatment, about bigotry, worrying about his safety, worrying about friends rejecting him, etc. I think that given the status of LGBT people as underprivileged and relatively marginalized, any parent who truly cares about their child would think about those things and be saddened by the idea of them having to experience them. I get that much.

But I still say that the only appropriate way to react - and by react, I mean the things you say and do (and not the things you might think about or worry about) - is to express your love and support. That's it. So insofar as you agree with that, I think I can agree with you.

I agree. Expectations aside, a good parent will love their child no matter what.

The reverse should be the same too. The kids coming out should understand what their parents are feeling too. Plus, If you come out to your parents, it'd probably be a good idea to expect some knee-jerk reactions--good and bad. Parents are only human.

Mumei · (08-10-2012, 04:15 AM)

Originally Posted by BlackGoku03:

The reverse should be the same too. The kids coming out should understand what their parents are feeling too. Plus, If you come out to your parents, it'd probably be a good idea to expect some knee-jerk reactions--good and bad. Parents are only human.

I don't know that I agree with this completely. When I came out at 20, yeah, I considered those things as possible reactions my mother might have. And my mother did at some point (though not when I first came out) expressed some regret at the idea of my not having biological children - though this was never of any peculiar importance to me - even though she does recognize that I could adopt if I ever wanted to. As with many people, she romanticizes the idea of getting to experience her children's children, so I can see how if that's something she'd been thinking about for, I don't know, 20+ years, she might feel some disappointment at that likely being dashed.

But I think you have to remember that when you say "if you come out to your parents" you aren't just talking to people our age (I'll be 26 in September); you're also talking these days about kids who are 12 and 13 when they are coming out. And I think it would unfair to expect kids at that age to give the same consideration that one might be able to give as an adult to their parents' possible foibles and insecurities.

Enter The 36 Chambers · (08-10-2012, 04:30 AM)

Originally Posted by Venfayth:

Why would you ever be upset that any person is homosexual?

The only rational thing that I've read in this thread is a few responses up: You're upset that your child is going to have to live a tougher life because they're homosexual. But even then, you should have no qualms with homosexuality.

Seriously? People are allowed to have their own preferences and opinions. Just like you are. You cant tell people what they should and shouldnt have qualms with.

On topic, the "Father" failed outright.

As for my son, I also wouldnt want my son to be homosexual. Who wishes a life of bullying, pain and torment on their children? Parents want their children to be happy and live pain free lives. Untill some of you have your own children you wont understand this.

Im not looking for an argument or to offend anyone whatsoever, simply expressing my opinion.

bigmakattack · (08-10-2012, 04:35 AM)

Originally Posted by Enter The 36 Chambers:

Seriously? People are allowed to have their own preferences and opinions. Just like you are. You cant tell people what they should and shouldnt have qualms with.

On topic, the "Father" failed outright.

As for my son, I also wouldnt want my son to be homosexual. Who wishes a life of bullying, pain and torment on their children? Parents want their children to be happy and live pain free lives. Untill some of you have your own children you wont understand this.

Im not looking for an argument or to offend anyone whatsoever, simply expressing my opinion.

I don't understand this line of thinking. I know a parent does not want their kid to get picked on and have to suffer that stuff growing up just because kids are ignorant and stupid and will pick on anyone who is just slightly different from them, but I think the better thing to do would be to not care what their child's sexuality is, and if the kid is gay, they as a parent should fight to combat any bullying that would come on their child for being gay.

Emitan · (08-10-2012, 04:39 AM)

Originally Posted by YesNOnoNOYes:

I've considered to change my gender, but I think it will break my father's heart :(

Anyway, every year that passes, it gets harder when my parents ask me why I haven't gotten a boyfriend. I don't know how long can I stay in the closet. I don't want to disappoint my father. But I just see myself as a boy, and there are days that I still wish I was born as one.

I don't really know you or anything, but I think you should live your life for yourself. I just came out to my mom as a transgender lesbian and while I was fairly confident she would accept me (she did!) my gender identity isn't something I can deny. It's who I am.

If you want to discuss this in the transgaf thread or in private messages or something I would really recommend it.

thetrin · (08-10-2012, 04:40 AM)

This kind of thing just makes me so sad.

If my son or daughter ever comes to me, and tells me they're gay, I will make sure that they understand that I love them, respect their choice, and respect them for having the courage to come out.

I would hope they wouldn't be worried about telling me in the first place. I hope I can cultivate a home where my children feel okay in telling me something deep and personal like that.

Mumei · (08-10-2012, 04:40 AM)

Originally Posted by Enter The 36 Chambers:

Seriously? People are allowed to have their own preferences and opinions. Just like you are. You cant tell people what they should and shouldnt have qualms with.

On topic, the "Father" failed outright.

As for my son, I also wouldnt want my son to be homosexual. Who wishes a life of bullying, pain and torment on their children? Parents want their children to be happy and live pain free lives. Untill some of you have your own children you wont understand this.

Im not looking for an argument or to offend anyone whatsoever, simply expressing my opinion.

To me, a preference for your child's sexuality should be akin to the preference you have for the race of your child's significant other. Certainly you might worry that if your child dates someone of another race that they might experience some bullying or harassment or even hate crimes as a result of it, as well as ostracization from friends or family members. And these are commonly expressed concerns for people who express a preference on this issue, and it mirrors the arguments you see for preferring heterosexuality.

But expressing a general preference that your child be heterosexual - or that he date people who are X races that you think will spare any possibility of social opprobrium on that front - should be considered a rather gauche opinion to express in the best of circumstances, and at worst a thin veneer that hides deeper insecurities with homophobia or with racism.

I of course recognize that we are not there for either of these issues, but I see them as somewhat analogous in this respect and believe that is where they ought to be.

norinrad · (08-10-2012, 04:43 AM)

A few years ago, a kid jumped over a bridge here because he came out to his dad and the dad said to him to go and think about it again. They later found him under the bridge.

Tragic part is, the kid dies, family destroyed. Father has to live with what he said on that day for the rest of his life.

I think some parents need to be thought on how to deal with these things.

SPE · (08-10-2012, 04:44 AM)

Originally Posted by bigmakattack:

I don't understand this line of thinking.

Me either. Being straight doesn't protect you from bullying at school or in later life. The best protection against having your kids get bullied, is to nurture their own self-confidence.

mooooose · (08-10-2012, 04:46 AM)

I always said if my son was gay, I'd be upset but accepting. After this thread and hearing these stories, I can safely say I wouldn't be upset at all. I'd love my fucking son so much and there is nothing he could ever do to disappoint me. He'd be my son and there is nothing a child should do, other than purposefully hurting others or themselves, that should disappoint you.

Enter The 36 Chambers · (08-10-2012, 04:48 AM)

Originally Posted by Mumei:

To me, a preference for your child's sexuality should be akin to the preference you have for the race of your child's significant other. Certainly you might worry that if your child dates someone of another race that they might experience some bullying or harassment or even hate crimes as a result of it, as well as ostracization from friends or family members. And these are commonly expressed concerns for people who express a preference on this issue, and it mirrors the arguments you see for preferring heterosexuality.

But expressing a general preference that your child be heterosexual - or that he date people who are X races that you think will spare any possibility of social opprobrium on that front - should be considered a rather gauche opinion to express in the best of circumstances, and at worst a thin veneer that hides deeper insecurities with homophobia or with racism.

I of course recognize that we are not there for either of these issues, but I see them as somewhat analogous in this respect and believe that is where they ought to be.

The point im trying to make is. If my son grows up and comes to me telling me hes gay, that will change nothing. My son is my blood and thats that. Any choices he makes, right or wrong (Not saying being gay is a right/wrong choice) ill stand by him and support him. Thats mine and every fathers job.

Is it so wrong to want your children to grow up avoiding the bullying, harassment and hate that we all know exists in this world?

Im not saying homosexuality is wrong, Im merely wishing my son to have the easiest life possible.

thetrin · (08-10-2012, 04:51 AM)

Originally Posted by Enter The 36 Chambers:

The point im trying to make is. If my son grows up and comes to me telling me hes gay, that will change nothing. My son is my blood and thats that. Any choices he makes, right or wrong (Not saying being gay is a right/wrong choice) ill stand by him and support him. Thats mine and every fathers job.

Is it so wrong to want your children to grow up avoiding the bullying, harassment and hate that we all know exists in this world?

Im not saying homosexuality is wrong, Im merely wishing my son to have the easiest life possible.

Your child doesn't have to be gay to be bullied. He could be bullied for being short, for having a certain name, for having freckles, for being too skinny or too fat...you can't assure that your child will not be bullied. "Mitigating" that chance by hoping he's not gay seems like a fool's errand to me.

Enter The 36 Chambers · (08-10-2012, 05:01 AM)

If i continue to post in here its just going to be me defending my opinion.

My opinion is irrelevant.

The important thing is to note that this man failed at doing his job. Being a father means accepting any choices your child makes and loving them regardless. The guy who posted the letter is better off without his father if thats the kind of man he is.

YesNOnoNOYes · (08-10-2012, 05:02 AM)

Originally Posted by Billiechu:

I don't really know you or anything, but I think you should live your life for yourself. I just came out to my mom as a transgender lesbian and while I was fairly confident she would accept me (she did!) my gender identity isn't something I can deny. It's who I am.

If you want to discuss this in the transgaf thread or in private messages or something I would really recommend it.

I appreciate this v. much :>

I didn't want to intrude on transpeople's safe spaces, cuz I'm still very much biologically 100% a woman. And I'm very feminine-looking (for lack of better word), but I feel like a boy (but there's a WHOLE LOT of internalized misogyny for my feeling that way)... (which i'm still sorting out, day by day :<)

I am currently very confused about my gender identity.

I am in a stable relationship with another woman, which I've kept as a secret from my family and friends. I dont know how long will it last, and we've been avoiding talking about 'coming out' altogether.

But, I might take up on your offer and PM you or join the GayGAF thread or TransGAF thread or something one day :>

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

<3

Darknessbear · (08-10-2012, 05:03 AM)

Why would you even follow a god that is so incompetent. He hates these types of people, yet there are millions of them. What an idiot, he doesn't have enough power to remedy that? He relies on crazed Christians protesting at Chick-fil-a? But then you expect him to have the power to answer prayers and help football players win the superbowl? I don't get it.

thetrin · (08-10-2012, 05:03 AM)

Originally Posted by YesNOnoNOYes:

I appreciate this v. much :>

I didn't want to intrude on transpeople's safe spaces, cuz I'm still very much biologically 100% a woman. And I'm very feminine-looking (for lack of better word), but I feel like a boy (but there's a WHOLE LOT of internalized misogyny for my feeling that way)... (which i'm still sorting out, day by day :<)

I am currently very confused about my gender identity.

I am in a stable relationship with another woman, which I've kept as a secret from my family and friends. I dont know how long will it last, and we've been avoiding talking about 'coming out' altogether.

But, I might take up on your offer and PM you or join the GayGAF thread or TransGAF thread or something one day :>

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

<3

Stay strong! If nothing else, GAF supports you! :D

Emitan · (08-10-2012, 05:04 AM)

Originally Posted by YesNOnoNOYes:

I appreciate this v. much :>

I didn't want to intrude on transpeople's safe spaces, cuz I'm still very much biologically 100% a woman. And I'm very feminine-looking (for lack of better word), but I feel like a boy (but there's a WHOLE LOT of internalized misogyny for my feeling that way)... (which i'm still sorting out, day by day :<)

I am currently very confused about my gender identity.

I am in a stable relationship with another woman, which I've kept as a secret from my family and friends. I dont know how long will it last, and we've been avoiding talking about 'coming out' altogether.

But, I might take up on your offer and PM you or join the GayGAF thread or TransGAF thread or something one day :>

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

<3

It's not intrusion at all! I'd be happy to help! (totally jealous of your relationship :P)

Monocle · (08-10-2012, 05:39 AM)

Originally Posted by Enter The 36 Chambers:

Seriously? People are allowed to have their own preferences and opinions. Just like you are. You cant tell people what they should and shouldnt have qualms with.

On topic, the "Father" failed outright.

As for my son, I also wouldnt want my son to be homosexual. Who wishes a life of bullying, pain and torment on their children? Parents want their children to be happy and live pain free lives. Untill some of you have your own children you wont understand this.

Im not looking for an argument or to offend anyone whatsoever, simply expressing my opinion.

BOY I SURE WISH BLACK PEOPLE WERENT SO DAMN DARK

EVER HEARD OF BLEACH

IF I EVER HAVE A BLACK BABY ILL MAKE HIM DRESS ALL IN WHITE SO HE DOESNT GET HIT BY A TRUCK AT DUSK, IM JUST CONCERNED FOR HIS SAFETY

Mumei · (08-10-2012, 05:41 AM)

Originally Posted by Enter The 36 Chambers:

The point im trying to make is. If my son grows up and comes to me telling me hes gay, that will change nothing. My son is my blood and thats that. Any choices he makes, right or wrong (Not saying being gay is a right/wrong choice) ill stand by him and support him. Thats mine and every fathers job.

Is it so wrong to want your children to grow up avoiding the bullying, harassment and hate that we all know exists in this world?

Im not saying homosexuality is wrong, Im merely wishing my son to have the easiest life possible.

I realized after I posted that there was another point I wanted to make, but I didn't think I would have time before someone responded at the time, so I suppose I will have to try now! I think that sometimes people don't realize that in these situations, what actually ends up causing more hurt are casual expressions of preferring that they would have been straight, even moreso than the bullying itself. Well-intentioned it might well be, but in practice it can be felt as a form of rejection. If you do have these preferences, then, I would hope that you plan on keeping them to yourself. I don't know whether you're considering how much more hurt you might cause than bullying ever could if your child asked you, "Do you wish I had been straight," and you answer in the affirmative, regardless of what your clarification or reasoning is.

I also think that thetrin raises an important point when he says that being gay or not is not the only reason for which someone can be bullied, and that focusing on that overmuch as a reason for preferring that they not be is misguided. And I think it can actually be more discouraging if a parent is actively expressing this view that - reduced to its essence - conflates being gay with having a life of terrible people doing terrible things to you.

Transhuman · (08-10-2012, 07:30 AM)

Originally Posted by BlackGoku03:

This isn't just any person, it's your offspring. It's not like your friend came up to you and told you they were gay. Don't downplay it. This is a huge thing for parents. Enormous. For many reasons. They aren't going to throw a party.

I'd throw a party. I'd throw the biggest, gayest party this town has ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6RTIkbxKv4

BlackGoku03 · (08-10-2012, 01:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Mumei:

I don't know that I agree with this completely. When I came out at 20, yeah, I considered those things as possible reactions my mother might have. And my mother did at some point (though not when I first came out) expressed some regret at the idea of my not having biological children - though this was never of any peculiar importance to me - even though she does recognize that I could adopt if I ever wanted to. As with many people, she romanticizes the idea of getting to experience her children's children, so I can see how if that's something she'd been thinking about for, I don't know, 20+ years, she might feel some disappointment at that likely being dashed.

But I think you have to remember that when you say "if you come out to your parents" you aren't just talking to people our age (I'll be 26 in September); you're also talking these days about kids who are 12 and 13 when they are coming out. And I think it would unfair to expect kids at that age to give the same consideration that one might be able to give as an adult to their parents' possible foibles and insecurities.

I can't speak for kids that young because they are just that--kids. Any decision they make is that of a child. I won't get in the debate of who knows they're gay at what age but children are children and they don't always know what's best for them.

So my earlier statement was for adults.

Enter The 36 Chambers · (08-10-2012, 05:39 PM)

Originally Posted by Monocle:

BOY I SURE WISH BLACK PEOPLE WERENT SO DAMN DARK

EVER HEARD OF BLEACH

IF I EVER HAVE A BLACK BABY ILL MAKE HIM DRESS ALL IN WHITE SO HE DOESNT GET HIT BY A TRUCK AT DUSK, IM JUST CONCERNED FOR HIS SAFETY

Yeah, go ahead and take what I said out of context and spit that ignorant shit. Were talking about a specific situation here.

Like I've clearly stated if my son does come to me and tell me he's gay, Ill love him regardless. And no i wont say "I would'a preferred you were straight" That's in the same vein as fathers telling their daughters they wanted a son. That's not what I'm getting at.

Also not saying sexuality is the only source of bullying either, we all know that's not true. I never said it, so please don't put words in my mouth.

In the context of where I grew up and my community as of now, life is easier for straight people. Deep down do I hope my son is straight? Yeah i do.

That's not out of some hatred towards gays or whatever, that's out of me wanting the most pain free, happy life for my seed.

CHEEZMO™ · (08-10-2012, 05:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Enter The 36 Chambers:

If i continue to post in here its just going to be me defending my opinion.

Welcome to the concept we like to call "debate".

Enter The 36 Chambers · (08-10-2012, 06:13 PM)

Originally Posted by CHEEZMO™:

Welcome to the concept we like to call "debate".

Should have said Being judged for my opinion

Prez · (08-10-2012, 06:21 PM)

Originally Posted by jchap:

When you can genetically engineer your kids, I wonder how many will fix homosexuality

That's an interesting question. There would be people choosing a boy, people choosing a girl, but for some reason I can't imagine anyone choosing homosexuality as sexual orientation, even people who consider difference in sexual orientation the same as difference in gender, hair color, etc. Am I right to assume that and why would that be?

levious · (08-10-2012, 07:13 PM)

Originally Posted by BlackGoku03:

No. I don't agree. Let's be real. People expect their kids to be straight. That's the norm. If you don't believe that then you aren't facing reality. Sorry.

not everyone. I have two siblings that are both gay, and seeing the turmoil and heartache that happened due to that sort of thinking from my parents has led me to do my best to not expect anything with regard to sexuality with my two sons.

jaxword · (08-11-2012, 03:25 AM)

Originally Posted by Enter The 36 Chambers:

In the context of where I grew up and my community as of now, life is easier for straight people. Deep down do I hope my son is straight? Yeah i do.

What if you were able to change the community to be more accepting of gays? Would you still pray your son is straight?

Veezy · (08-11-2012, 03:46 AM)

Originally Posted by Enter The 36 Chambers:

Yeah, go ahead and take what I said out of context and spit that ignorant shit. Were talking about a specific situation here.

Like I've clearly stated if my son does come to me and tell me he's gay, Ill love him regardless. And no i wont say "I would'a preferred you were straight" That's in the same vein as fathers telling their daughters they wanted a son. That's not what I'm getting at.

Also not saying sexuality is the only source of bullying either, we all know that's not true. I never said it, so please don't put words in my mouth.

In the context of where I grew up and my community as of now, life is easier for straight people. Deep down do I hope my son is straight? Yeah i do.

That's not out of some hatred towards gays or whatever, that's out of me wanting the most pain free, happy life for my seed.

I know for me, I'll automatically assume that my kid is straight until they say otherwise, which I hope they would. I've always been straight, and I don't really think I'd ever have a conversation such as "so, do you like boys, girls, or both?" I'd be a bit taken aback by it, in more of of "huh, okay" sort of way, just because I wouldn't spend to much time really pondering my child's sexuality.

However, do I hope they're straight? Not really. I just hope they're well adjusted, intelligent, and not crazy. If somebody wants to give my child shit for being attracted to the same gender, then I have no problem defending my kid.