[illmatic19]

I love how Jeff spoiled Darksiders for Brad and Will apologized for it.

[Anatoli Bacharach]

I agree that Will was better here than he tends to be on his own podcast (where I also like him, but he's too dominant).

Great episode. Summer 2012 bombcast continues to nail it week after week.

[eznark]

Wow, I need to apologize. A five man podcast can absolutely work. This was another great episode.

It reminded me of the podcast argument from lo so many years ago with Will explaining why Episode 2's inclusion in the Orange Box was actually a net negative and Norm going nuts. So good.

[KalBalboa]

I'm a little disappointed that 360 "patchgate" got no real discussion after what happened with Fez and Silent Hill. The conversation skipped right by the $40,000 barrier into mocking the MGS4 trophy/install patch as a silly endeavor.

[LiK]

I'm a little disappointed that 360 "patchgate" got no real discussion after what happened with Fez and Silent Hill. The conversation skipped right by the $40,000 barrier into mocking the MGS4 trophy/install patch as a silly endeavor.

wish Patrick was there to talk about that.

[StuBurns]

Did SH HD on 360 even have a single patch? I imagine they still have their free one in hand.

[Neuromancer]

I don't understand what Will was talking about with the first mission of Driver SF being impossible without upgrades. I've played through the beginning of the game twice, never had any issues.

There are some tricky spots later on in the game, nothing insurmountable for the average player though.

[KalBalboa]

Did SH HD on 360 even have a single patch? I imagine they still have their free one in hand.

Did SH HD on 360 even have a single patch? I imagine they still have their free one in hand.

I haven't a clue as to how the entire process works on Live, but after hearing about these two games having problems back to back I was expecting some discussion beyond laughing at the MGS4 patch existing for the sole purpose of teasing a sequel.

The Valve talk was good and it was interesting to hear someone who wasn't jazzed about Left For Dead for a change (I can relate). These guys are getting hungry for the next gen though, huh?

[KalBalboa]

I don't understand what Will was talking about with the first mission of Driver SF being impossible without upgrades. I've played through the beginning of the game twice, never had any issues. There are some tricky spots later on in the game, nothing insurmountable for the average player though.

I'm in the same boat. Beats me, I found that game to be really inviting and easy to get into. Driver was an overlooked gem, if you ask me. Good on Vinny for giving it enough love to beat it.

[Antiwhippy]

From the discussion I get the impression that they believe it's more about konami being incompetent than the patch cost. Plus they acknowledge that building a patch would cost more than it's worth even if it's just factoring in dev time, which is a shitty excuse.

I haven't really heard anything in the Silent hill HD patch news from other sources that said the $40K cost is a factor in it, so bringing it up is purely speculation, whereas the Fez situation is definitely about the $40K cost.

[Ventilaator]

I don't understand what Will was talking about with the first mission of Driver SF being impossible without upgrades. I've played through the beginning of the game twice, never had any issues. There are some tricky spots later on in the game, nothing insurmountable for the average player though.

Also, what the hell was that nonsense about Team Fortress 2 being absolutely impossible to get into at this point?

I at one point randomly realized I hadn't tried it so I did. I ended up at least in the middle of my team every game, score-wise. This would make sense if I was some hardcore shooter player, but I'm the opposite of that. I've played about 2 hours of Call of Duty this gen. Campaign mode.

[KalBalboa]

From the discussion I get the impression that they believe it's more about konami being incompetent than the patch cost. Plus they acknowledge that building a patch would cost more than it's worth even if it's just factoring in dev time, which is a shitty excuse. I haven't really heard anything in the Silent hill HD patch news from other sources that said the $40K cost is a factor in it, so bringing it up is purely speculation, whereas the Fez situation is definitely about the $40K cost.

That's basically why I expected there to be a bigger talking about both situations. The minutia about the PS3 version of Silent Hill getting a patch was shrugged off as favoritism, but after hearing the Fez story recently I kind of wanted to hear more.

[Curufinwe]

I don't understand what Will was talking about with the first mission of Driver SF being impossible without upgrades. I've played through the beginning of the game twice, never had any issues.

A lot of what Will says about games is hard to understand.

[Antiwhippy]

That's basically why I expected there to be a bigger talking about both situations. The minutia about the PS3 version of Silent Hill getting a patch was shrugged off as favoritism, but after hearing the Fez story recently I kind of wanted to hear more.

I don't think it was favouratism.

PS3 version was fucked up.

Reaaaaaaally fucked up, even comapared to the 360 version. Even after 2 patches they can't fix it.

I can see why konami would abandon the patch, mostly because they are massively incompetent.

[KalBalboa]

I don't think it was favouratism.

Me either. I think the GB guys kind of sold the story short. The PS3 version seems to be better now (but still iffy), but the fact Konami won't patch the 360 sends a lot of mixed signals.

They really blew it with this collection, which
is a grand loss. Those two games are some of my favorites.

[animlboogy]

Also, what the hell was that nonsense about Team Fortress 2 being absolutely impossible to get into at this point? I at one point randomly realized I hadn't tried it so I did. I ended up at least in the middle of my team every game, score-wise. This would make sense if I was some hardcore shooter player, but I'm the opposite of that. I've played about 2 hours of Call of Duty this gen. Campaign mode.

Yeah, that was absolute nonsense. TF2 is probably hated more by hardcores BECAUSE it remains accessible and doesn't have a pro-gaming ready super high skill ceiling balance. It's tuned to be kind of a light counterpart to all that. You can get to the middle of the leader board just by bothering to pay attention your first match in. Certainly on most pubs, that's how it goes. More than any game I can think of, people seem to spend a massive amount of time just dicking around chatting, leaving sprays around, etc., too, so it's not hard to just get on and have fun.

But what's a Bombcast without at least one moment of horribly informed consensus?

I agree with Jeff on L4D, though. That game just never clicked with me. It just feels like getting rushed hordes again and again and again, with little variation. I know theres supposed to be a lot going on behind the scenes with the AI director or whatever, but I just don't ever feel like it matters. The hand picked waves of enemies in Killing Floor and the feel of the weapons in that game did a hell of a lot more for me.

[Antiwhippy]

Me either. I think the GB guys kind of sold the story short. The PS3 version seems to be better now (but still iffy), but the fact Konami won't patch the 360 sends a lot of mixed signals. They really blew it with this collection, which is a grand loss. Those two games are some of my favorites.

I know. I was really looking forward to it too. :(

Oh well, I'll always have the PS2 versions.

[animlboogy]

I know. I was really looking forward to it too. :( Oh well, I'll always have the PS2 versions.

PCSX2 has your back.

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah, some screens I've seen makes it look amazing.

[funkystudent]

Another great episode.

Will Smith and Vinny on the same show is just as good as I would have wanted.


Also any idea how darksiders 2 is on ps3? they mentioned the 360 version is a bit spotty and from following Jeff on twitter I saw THQ sent Giantbomb a ps3 copy but I guess they didnt play it.

PS3 version the console version to get? Normally pubs dont send ps3 copies unless the 360 version is busted or there is some kind of marketing deal behind it.

[ultron87]

Jeff said "unbridled" in reference to COD Blops stuff he couldn't talk about. I can only assume that this means horses in multiplayer.

[Fantastical]

PCSX2 has your back.

Aren't there issues at least with SH3 on PCSX2?

[SatelliteOfLove]

"The new drivers are Wickle certified." "They're what." "Wickle certified." "THEY'RE WHAT." "W-H-Q-L. Windows Hardware Qual--" "DON'T CALL IT THAT!" #dead Will totally did that on purpose to create a similar situation to EXECutable but I just don't care, it still made me laugh

"We're going back to old material this early?"

Loved it.

[a Master Ninja]

When Brad called Metal Gear Rising an abortion and compared it to Operation Raccoon City, I can only hope that he doesn't know that Platinum Games will #MAKEITRIGHT.

[GotchaForce]

It's always been like that but Jeff's tone when dismissing games this episode was a real bummer. It's like he's disgusted games like TF2 and Left 4 Dead even exist.

[StuBurns]

When Brad called Metal Gear Rising an abortion and compared it to Operation Raccoon City, I can only hope that he doesn't know that Platinum Games will #MAKEITRIGHT.

I must have missed that. Jeff was generally positive about it on the TNT tonight.

[sixghost]

Also, what the hell was that nonsense about Team Fortress 2 being absolutely impossible to get into at this point? I at one point randomly realized I hadn't tried it so I did. I ended up at least in the middle of my team every game, score-wise. This would make sense if I was some hardcore shooter player, but I'm the opposite of that. I've played about 2 hours of Call of Duty this gen. Campaign mode.

I got into TF2 maybe 2 years ago. Especially after the F2P update, there are always new players, and the game has a pretty low skill level in pubs anyway. They're just wrong on this. There are tons of weapons in the game, but 90% of them function like the default version.

[Zek]

I got into TF2 maybe 2 years ago. Especially after the F2P update, there are always new players, and the game has a pretty low skill level in pubs anyway. They're just wrong on this. There are tons of weapons in the game, but 90% of them function like the default version.

Too much stuff = intimidating for new players. TF2 is a textbook example of a game that has way, way too much stuff.

[Htown]

Too much stuff = intimidating for new players. TF2 is a textbook example of a game that has way, way too much stuff.

No it doesn't. You just play it.

[Jintor]

Someone on Idle Thumbs mentioned that it has a really high perceived learning curve that has been built up, which I think is fair enough. The actual learning curve is to my mind fairly low, since weapons more or less all behave like one another in form and function.

[FStop7]

Too much stuff = intimidating for new players. TF2 is a textbook example of a game that has way, way too much stuff.

I think you have TF2 and DOTA/LOL mixed up.

I feel like someone is going to yell at me about lanes if I even so much as ask about DOTA. The only game I can recall that's been more intimidating to me is Everquest.

[eznark]

I think you have TF2 and DOTA/LOL mixed up. I feel like someone is going to yell at me about lanes if I even so much as ask about DOTA. The only games I can recall that's been more intimidating to me is Everquest.

UNINSTALL NOOB

[Aaron]

Too much stuff = intimidating for new players. TF2 is a textbook example of a game that has way, way too much stuff.

You won't even know the stuff is there unless you look for it. I had to search for my backpack, and still haven't a clue about crafting. Jumping in and playing a match is still super easy.

[jediyoshi]

Too much stuff = intimidating for new players. TF2 is a textbook example of a game that has way, way too much stuff.

That's like saying a restaurant has become intimidating because they tacked on another few pages of deserts, anything that you were familiar with for the most part functions identically. There's about zero deviation that has occurred for when a spy backstabs you with anything to a sniper getting a headshot with anything. The way Will sells it is hilarious, he may as well say they added a revival minigame for medics and that soldiers can sprint now.

[Zek]

I think you have TF2 and DOTA/LOL mixed up. I feel like someone is going to yell at me about lanes if I even so much as ask about DOTA. The only games I can recall that's been more intimidating to me is Everquest.

I didn't say it had a steep learning curve. It just has an incredibly huge pile of items and trinkets that are all hidden behind all sorts of extremely cryptic metagame mechanics. Anyone who is actually inclined to think about that stuff and wants to start collecting items will naturally be scared away by all the useless cruft. This latest update is a great example:

http://www.teamfortress.com/mvm/faq/

What the heck is this? They couldn't have come up with a more convoluted way to earn cosmetic unlocks if they tried. Every update they have some wacky new idea and they vomit it out onto the pile on top of all the other wacky ideas that are still lying around somewhere in there. I've never seen a game become so convoluted for so trivial a benefit.

[Jintor]

But if the benefit is trivial, almost none of it matters, so it's not a problem!

[XeroSauce]

Wow, I need to apologize. A five man podcast can absolutely work. This was another great episode. It reminded me of the podcast argument from lo so many years ago with Will explaining why Episode 2's inclusion in the Orange Box was actually a net negative and Norm going nuts. So good.

Do you remember which podcast that was? I'd love to hear about that.

[jediyoshi]

Every update they have some wacky new idea and they vomit it out onto the pile on top of all the other wacky ideas that are still lying around somewhere in there. I've never seen a game become so convoluted for so trivial a benefit.

I'm starting to think you're not familiar with TF2's actual update history if your prime example is something that just launched.

[eznark]

Do you remember which podcast that was? I'd love to hear about that.

The No BS show after the orange box I assume.

[XeroSauce]

I didn't say it had a steep learning curve. It just has an incredibly huge pile of items and trinkets that are all hidden behind all sorts of extremely cryptic metagame mechanics. Anyone who is actually inclined to think about that stuff and wants to start collecting items will naturally be scared away by all the useless cruft. This latest update is a great example: http://www.teamfortress.com/mvm/faq/ What the heck is this? They couldn't have come up with a more convoluted way to earn cosmetic unlocks if they tried. Every update they have some wacky new idea and they vomit it out onto the pile on top of all the other wacky ideas that are still lying around somewhere in there. I've never seen a game become so convoluted for so trivial a benefit.

I'll admit to you that the latest update and it's FAQ is completely confusing, but that's because they completely overhauled the game to introduce a brand new mode with a bunch of different features.

The game itself is really easy to get into, the weapons and items are presently plainly and it's easy to start collecting items because they start dropping for you and the TF2 interface explains trading and inventory right off the bat.

The No BS show after the orange box I assume.

Thanks duder.

[Dylan]

Awesome podcast.

I was totally surprised at the hate for both TF2 and HL2:Ep2. Both are in the top 10 games of this gen easily.

I think a lot of people don't give Episode 2 the credit it deserves because they purchased Orange Box and tried to play through the entire HL2 + episodes in a row. But as a stand-alone experience, Episode 2 is still probably the best FPS of this gen.

Also, the entry-level difficulty dropped significantly when TF2 became free-to-play. For someone like me that used to play every day, it was almost not even fun to join public servers anymore since I would always be top of the team.

[XeroSauce]

Awesome podcast. I was totally surprised at the hate for both TF2 and HL2:Ep2. Both are in the top 10 games of this gen easily. I think a lot of people don't give Episode 2 the credit it deserves because they purchased Orange Box and tried to play through the entire HL2 + episodes in a row. But as a stand-alone experience, Episode 2 is still probably the best FPS of this gen. Also, the entry-level difficulty dropped significantly when TF2 became free-to-play. For someone like me that used to play every day, it was almost not even fun to join public servers anymore since I would always be top of the team.

A lot of the higher end servers have player that are actually competent. GAF's own Jank server has some pretty awesome players.

[Lijik]

Someone on Idle Thumbs mentioned that it has a really high perceived learning curve that has been built up, which I think is fair enough. The actual learning curve is to my mind fairly low, since weapons more or less all behave like one another in form and function.

I think it was Jake?
Either way it was kind of interesting to have a discussion on about it on this Bombcast and then a counterpoint on this week's Idle Thumbs purely by coincidence

[JackEtc]

Liquid Nitrogen talk is hilarious, I love how Jeff keeps asking about how he could deviously use it.

[1-UP]

Yeah, I've been enjoying these podcasts so much more lately without him.

.

[Riposte]

They, or Brad anyway, seem to really hate Metal Gear Rising lol. Calling it abortive and comparing it to Raccoon City. It's only, you know, looking to be action game in the last few years.

The whole last part of the podcast is reminder that actually talking about games is pretty toxic to the podcast.

[eznark]

They, or Brad anyway, seem to really hate Metal Gear Rising lol. Calling it abortive and comparing it to Raccoon City. It's only, you know, looking to be action game in the last few years. The whole last part of the podcast is reminder that actually talking about games is pretty toxic to the podcast.

Metal Gear Rising: Action game in the last few years


Inspired box quote.

[Anth0ny]

Jeff shitting on Valve's last few games and the silence that followed was hilarious.

[Odrion]

.

Well too bad because he's back next week.

[ArjanN]

When Brad called Metal Gear Rising an abortion and compared it to Operation Raccoon City, I can only hope that he doesn't know that Platinum Games will #MAKEITRIGHT.

Yeah, I relistined to this episode, and I noticed that as well. I was assuming he just hadn't kept up with the news about that game at all.