[GraveRobberX]

On the other hand, why doesn't Italy get as much shit for ww2?

They gave the US Olive Garden, all is forgiven in the eyes world =D

[numble]

You skipped over all of this: all comfort women claims were supposed to be resolved in 1965: In 1965, the Japanese government awarded $364 million to the Korean government for all war damages, including the injury done to comfort women.[52] In 1994, the Japanese government set up the Asian Women's Fund to distribute additional compensation to South Korea, the Philippines, Taiwan, the Netherlands, and Indonesia. [53] Each survivor was provided with a signed apology from the then prime minister Tomiichi Murayama, stating "As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women." on January 14, 1992, Japanese Chief Government Spokesman Koichi Kato issued an official apology saying "We cannot deny that the former Japanese army played a role" in abducting and detaining the "comfort girls, " and "We would like to express our apologies and contrition".[57][56][58] Three days later on January 17, 1992 at a dinner given by South Korean President Roh Tae Woo, the Japanese Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa told his host: " We Japanese should first and foremost recall the truth of that tragic period when Japanese actions inflicted suffering and sorrow upon your people. We should never forget our feelings of remorse over this. As Prime Minister of Japan, I would like to declare anew my remorse at these deeds and tender my apology to the people of the Republic of Korea." and apologized again the following day in a speech before South Korea's National Assembly.[59][60] On April 28, 1998, the Japanese court ruled that the Government must compensate the women and awarded them US$2,300 ($3,280 in 2012) each.[61] .

You forgot these paragraphs in your quote of an entire Wikipedia section:

Three Korean women filed suit in Japan in December, 1991, around the time of the 50th anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack, demanding compensation for forced prostitution. They introduced documents found by history Professor Yoshiaki Yoshida that had been stored at the Japanese Defense Agency since their return to Japan by United States troops in 1958.[56] Subsequently,

In 2007 the surviving sex slaves wanted an apology from the Japanese government. Shinzō Abe, the prime minister at the time, stated on March 1, 2007, that there was no evidence that the Japanese government had kept sex slaves, even though the Japanese government had already admitted the use of brothels in 1993. On March 27 the Japanese parliament issued an official apology.[62]

[Natetan]

Uhm, the comfort women issue doesn't appear to be resolved just because Japan thinks its resolved. I just did a google news search and there were all sorts of articles about it, I guess its because the anniversary of the war's end was recently. The issue here is that Japan just hasn't been contrite as Germany has, or as proactive about it. And for a long time, the previous Japanese government's contstant denial just threw salt into the wounds. I'm guessing over time it'll get better. On the other hand, why doesn't Italy get as much shit for ww2?

I just don't think that's true. I used to mind you. But thats because i was under the assumption that japan fully denied any wrong doing or that it had ever happened let alone paid compensation or apologies formally in international society.

Germany has its crazy neo nazis and holocaust deniers.

I think the apologizing And money Japan has paid out is too easily glossed over or at least gets much less credit than it deserves for what it has done. I also want to say that part of the ongoing feud continues because they are Asian countries. People in the us are more aware/ care more about european/German compensatory activities because they are western countries. Asia is far away and foreign and is easier to forget and just claim neutrality

I think Hollywood needs to make a film or at least make films in English about and make the Japanese the token bad guy in all historic FPS video games. Seems to have worked for Germany.


I didn't forget those points. They were already clearly explained solely emphacized in the post i was responding to. Abe is a moron. He was prime minister for barely a year like all of his ilk. But one stupid blunder doesn't unravel decades of apologies and compensation.

I don't understand why after the comfort women issue was officially resolved and no further individual claims should be allowed after the 60s compensation and individual apologies from the prime minister, that individuals have been allowed to continue with individual claims even to this day. The agreement signed in the 60s explicitly states this The Wikipedia article doesn't explain that.

Japan was ruthless and disturbingly reckless during the war, especially to china and to Korea. I studied the rape if nanjing and some of the photos made me break down and cry.

One thing I think people don't think about is why Japanese were so expansionist in Asia. Why would a country lock out the outside world for 250 years? It was an era of gunboat diplomacy. The Americans forced Japan open in the 19th century with unfair treaties. Looking around the rest of Asia at the time, the Japanese figured the only way to maintain their sovereignty and not become a banana republic for some western country was to beat them at their own game.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I just don't think that's true. I used to mind you. But thats because i was under the assumption that japan fully denied any wrong doing or that it had ever happened let alone paid compensation or apologies formally in international society. Germany has its crazy neo nazis and holocaust deniers. I think the apologizing And money Japan has paid out is too easily glossed over or at least gets much less credit than it deserves for what it has done. I also want to say that part of the ongoing feud continues because they are Asian countries. People in the us are more aware/ care more about european/German compensatory activities because they are western countries. Asia is far away and foreign and is easier to forget and just claim neutrality I think Hollywood needs to make a film or at least make films in English about and make the Japanese the token bad guy in all historic FPS video games. Seems to have worked for Germany. I didn't forget those points. They were already clearly explained solely emphacized in the post i was responding to. Abe is a moron. He was prime minister for barely a year like all of his ilk. But one stupid blunder doesn't unravel decades of apologies and compensation. I don't understand why after the comfort women issue was officially resolved and no further individual claims should be allowed after the 60s compensation and individual apologies from the prime minister, that individuals have been allowed to continue with individual claims even to this day. The agreement signed in the 60s explicitly states this The Wikipedia article doesn't explain that. Japan was ruthless and disturbingly reckless during the war, especially to china and to Korea. I studied the rape if nanjing and some of the photos made me break down and cry. One thing I think people don't think about is why Japanese were so expansionist in Asia. Why would a country lock out the outside world for 250 years? It was an era of gunboat diplomacy. The Americans forced Japan open in the 19th century with unfair treaties. Looking around the rest of Asia at the time, the Japanese figured the only way to maintain their sovereignty and not become a banana republic for some western country was to beat them at their own game.

Dude, we let Tom Cruise be your last samurai.

Oh, then I read the rest of your post. It's the US's fault that Japan did horrible things.

[tino]

My point is when will China and Korea be satisfied that Japan has apologized enough for the terrible things they did in WWII? I'm saying they will never be satisfied until they have more power and wealth than Japan. Korea still brings up the comfort women thing when that was already officially resolved with money and an apology quite a long time ago.

Resolve my ass. You know Nikon Gallery rcently scheduled a comfort women topic photography show and cancelled it without any explaination to the artist?

As far as I am concerned Japanes men simply won't bring themselves to admit the crime.

[Natetan]

Dude, we let Tom Cruise be your last samurai. Oh, then I read the rest of your post. It's the US's fault that Japan did horrible things.

So all these western powers are buzzing around your country. You've heard what they did to native Americans and to indochina, made slaves out of Africans, colonize the indian subcontinent and australia, and divide up china for themselves. All before there was a forum to voice and resolve international disputes. You're telling me you wouldn't feel threatened?


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treat...pan)#section_1

Following the nomination of Townsend Harris as U.S. Consul in 1856 and two years of negotiation, the "Treaty of Amity and Commerce" was signed in 1858 and put into application from mid-1859. In a major diplomatic coup, Harris had abundantly pointed out the aggressive colonialism of France and Great Britain against China in the current Second Opium War (1856–1860), suggesting that these countries would not hesitate to go to war against Japan as well, and that the United States offered a peaceful alternative.[15]


The agreement served as a model for similar treaties signed by Japan with other foreign countries in the ensuing weeks. These Unequal Treaties curtailed Japanese sovereignty for the first time in its history; more importantly, it revealed Japan’s growing weakness, and was seen by the West as a pretext for possible colonisation of Japan. The recovery of national status and strength became an overarching priority for the Japanese, with the treaty’s domestic consequences being the end of Bakufu (Shogun) control and the establishment of a new imperial government.

Anglo-French fleet would sail to Japan and coerce the signing of "unequal treaties." However, the content of those treaties did not differ in their most essential points from the Tientsin Treaty between Great Britain and China in 1858; one of the most prominent of the unequal treaties in the history of Eastern-Western foreign relations.[9]


I'm not 100% sure but I think Korea had similar isolationist policies at the time for the same reasons.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

So all these western powers are buzzing around your country. You've heard what they did to native Americans and to indochina, made slaves out of Africans, colonize the indian subcontinent and australia, and divide up china for themselves. All before there was a forum to voice and resolve international disputes. You're telling me you wouldn't feel threatened? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treat...pan)#section_1 Following the nomination of Townsend Harris as U.S. Consul in 1856 and two years of negotiation, the "Treaty of Amity and Commerce" was signed in 1858 and put into application from mid-1859. In a major diplomatic coup, Harris had abundantly pointed out the aggressive colonialism of France and Great Britain against China in the current Second Opium War (1856–1860), suggesting that these countries would not hesitate to go to war against Japan as well, and that the United States offered a peaceful alternative.[15] The agreement served as a model for similar treaties signed by Japan with other foreign countries in the ensuing weeks. These Unequal Treaties curtailed Japanese sovereignty for the first time in its history; more importantly, it revealed Japan’s growing weakness, and was seen by the West as a pretext for possible colonisation of Japan. The recovery of national status and strength became an overarching priority for the Japanese, with the treaty’s domestic consequences being the end of Bakufu (Shogun) control and the establishment of a new imperial government. Anglo-French fleet would sail to Japan and coerce the signing of "unequal treaties." However, the content of those treaties did not differ in their most essential points from the Tientsin Treaty between Great Britain and China in 1858; one of the most prominent of the unequal treaties in the history of Eastern-Western foreign relations.[9] I'm not 100% sure but I think Korea had similar isolationist policies at the time for the same reasons.

Yes, Korea historically been an isolationist nation.

But, you more or less said that Japan did what it did, because of what the US did to them. Basically not owning up to the atrocities, genocide, actual and cultural that they committed.

Why are you trying to rationalize it?

This is where you lost me. Because for the most part, I've been, "This thing over the islands is dumb, and they should just go to court and resolve it." And now you're into not just being an apologist for their behavior, but offering spurious logic to justify it.

"Oh, well, Japan raped Nanking, becuase of what happened in 1858."

[Natetan]

"The recovery of national status and strength became an overarching priority for the Japanese, with the treaty’s domestic consequences being the end of Bakufu (Shogun) control and the establishment of a new imperial government."

I'm rationalizing because people take world war ii in the context of diplomatic diplomacy of today instead of the gunboat diplomacy of the time. Western powers were aiming to colonize Japan as they has the rest of Asia. The only way to prove to western powers Japan was not to be colonized was to adopt similar gunboat diplomacy and unfair treaties against there neighbors. In fact the world didn't recognize Japan as a "great power" until they won the sino- and Russo- Japanese wars. China is striving to be a great power just like Japan did then through the zeitgeist of the day:,diplomacy and export oriented economic growth.

Im just saying that's where it started. I never said rape of namjing and assassinating the Korean emperor and experimenting on live people was because of the Americans. The Japanese took it to extremes, but I doubt the would have ever been expansionist in Asia if western powers weren't a major threat in the region at the time.

Americans like to pretend there history in Asia behind with those bombers attacking Japan, yet 99% prob don't know who admiral perry is or what the unfair treaties are. Which were just under 100 years before that. I also can't think of a single Japanese person who doesn't know what they are since they radically changed Japan.


It's like saying the treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with forming nazi Germany.

[Zefah]

"comfort women" How about call it as what it is: sex slaves? And I'm not Korean and don't give a fuck what's going on in Korea. The point is your pathetic country never actually faces this issue (and actually never gives any Chinese sex slaves any compensation) and your government officers keep thinking it's invalid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women To get some compensation those women had to actually go to file the suit themselves. And what's the point of apology if you actually never honor it? If you did feel sorry about WWII then WHY THE FUCK do your government officers keep visiting the war criminal shrine and keep saying"there's no evidence of massacre" "there's no evidence of sex slavery"? Yes I keep saying "you" because your officers are elected by your people and are supposed to be the presentations of Japanese people. Their behavior is YOUR behavior. Seriously, just go back to your closet and fuck yourself.

First, you need to calm the hell down. If you don't even have a horse in this race, why are you so emotional?

A couple of things, and realize I'm not trying to excuse anything Japan did, but it's not as clear-cut black and white as you make it out to be:

- There were most certainly sex slaves who were forced to work as "comfort women." They may have even been the majority. There were also lots of women who took on the job of their own volition because there was no other work. There were cases of parents selling their children as comfort women. There were even some native-Japanese women who worked as "comfort women." In order to properly apologize to each individual, Japan would first need to identify which women were actually wronged in the whole thing. I imagine that's pretty much impossible at this point.

- Yasukuni shrine is dedicated to all of the officers and soldiers who fought for Japan in a wide variety of conflicts. It also contains officers who were tried as war criminals. They are not in the majority. It's Japan's shrine to honor dead soldiers, not a "war criminal shrine."

Uhm, the comfort women issue doesn't appear to be resolved just because Japan thinks its resolved. I just did a google news search and there were all sorts of articles about it, I guess its because the anniversary of the war's end was recently. The issue here is that Japan just hasn't been contrite as Germany has, or as proactive about it. And for a long time, the previous Japanese government's contstant denial just threw salt into the wounds. I'm guessing over time it'll get better. On the other hand, why doesn't Italy get as much shit for ww2?

As a government, you probably shouldn't accept apologies and reparations if you don't intend to let the issue be considered "resolved."

[Az987]

Where are these islands located? Can I make a claim for GAF?

[numble]

As a government, you probably shouldn't accept apologies and reparations if you don't intend to let the issue be considered "resolved."

Eh, if the Chancellor of Germany came out and denied the Holocaust, or current German parliament members, there would be the same shitstorm that happened when the Japanese Prime Minister denied that women were forced into sexual slavery in 2007. It wouldn't matter what past governments had done.

[Zefah]

Eh, if the Chancellor of Germany came out and denied the Holocaust, or current German parliament members, there would be the same shitstorm that happened when the Japanese Prime Minister denied that women were forced into sexual slavery in 2007. It wouldn't matter what past governments had done.

Of course there would be a shitstorm. It wouldn't undo the actions of past governments, though. If what past governments had done didn't matter, then this whole comfort women thing wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

[numble]

Of course there would be a shitstorm. It wouldn't undo the actions of past governments, though. If what past governments had done didn't matter, then this whole comfort women thing wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

But you can see how an issue isn't considered resolved when provocative statements and acts keep coming from the Japanese side? The Yasakuni Shrine visits also tie into this. Even the Prime Minister knows that the visits cause problems and tells his ministers to not visit, but they visit anyway--on the anniversary of the end of WWII, to boot.

[Zefah]

But you can see how an issue isn't considered resolved when provocative statements and acts keep coming from the Japanese side? The Yasakuni Shrine visits also tie into this. Even the Prime Minister knows that the visits cause problems and tells his ministers to not visit, but they visit anyway--on the anniversary of the end of WWII, to boot.

Not "to boot," but "because." It wouldn't be significant to visit on any other date, because that date was what marked the end of Imperial Japan and thus the end of any military conflict.

There had been many provocative statements from the Korean side even before Abe screwed up. That certainly doesn't excuse Abe--after all Japan were the aggressors in this particular issue, so they need to be extra careful, but it's not like Korea was satisfied even before Abe spoke up.

Honestly, they probably shouldn't be satisfied. They got screwed hard by Japan during World War II (although the infrastructure that Japan built certainly helped them get their economy going after the war). Playing the victim and turning the people's anger outside is a great play for any politician who wants to get elected, too. It's just unfortunate, though. Both nations really need to find a way to put this shit behind them and work together. Japan and South Korea are more similar to each other than they are similar with any other nation. If they were more friendly on an official level, they could accomplish some pretty amazing stuff. Maybe in 50 years or so when the older generation (whose parents were alive during WWII) die off, this can be possible.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Not "to boot," but "because." It wouldn't be significant to visit on any other date, because that date was what marked the end of Imperial Japan and thus the end of any military conflict. There had been many provocative statements from the Korean side even before Abe screwed up. That certainly doesn't excuse Abe--after all Japan were the aggressors in this particular issue, so they need to be extra careful, but it's not like Korea was satisfied even before Abe spoke up. Honestly, they probably shouldn't be satisfied. They got screwed hard by Japan during World War II (although the infrastructure that Japan built certainly helped them get their economy going after the war). Playing the victim and turning the people's anger outside is a great play for any politician who wants to get elected, too. It's just unfortunate, though. Both nations really need to find a way to put this shit behind them and work together. Japan and South Korea are more similar to each other than they are similar with any other nation. If they were more friendly on an official level, they could accomplish some pretty amazing stuff. Maybe in 50 years or so when the older generation (whose parents were alive during WWII) die off, this can be possible.

Well, except that one little bit here kids of both countries are rasied with a disdain for the other.

[Sickboy007]

On the other hand, why doesn't Italy get as much shit for ww2?

Mostly, the Resistance, the separate armistice, and the German occupation.

And while we had our share of brutalities (mostly in Libya), it was nothing comparable to the German and Japanese war machines.

btw, in Libya under Gheddafi they used to have a "Day of Hate" every year against the Italians. The reason Berlusconi and Gheddafi were so buddy-buddy was that, among other, more private deals, they signed an enourmous reparatory treaty.

[Zefah]

Well, except that one little bit here kids of both countries are rasied with a disdain for the other.

One of the countries at least. Japanese kids are most certainly not taught to hate Korea.

Their public education completely glosses over Imperial Japan and World War II.

[Natetan]

One of the countries at least. Japanese kids are most certainly not taught to hate Korea. Their public education completely glosses over Imperial Japan and World War II.

While Korean culture is seen as cool, I have heard some colorful comments from some Japanese about Koreans. It's certainly not a majority though and far less than the colorful comments I've heard from Koreans about Japan.

I took a tour of the dmz, and they only had a Japanese language tour available.,one of the tour guides told me that "we only like them for their money" made me laugh.

I hope some day it all gets ironed Japan and Korea especially are quite similar culturally. Quite different in some ways of course. China and Japan are" like fire and ice" as a Chinese coworker of mine said.

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Haha, Japan making friends all over Asia. This will bite them in the ass hard in the future. Mark my words.

You mean China? last i heard they claimed the whole South China sea and they are trying to do the same in the east China sea's. Unfortunately for them they met their match.

[tino]

You mean China? last i heard they claimed the whole South China sea and they are trying to do the same in the east China sea's. Unfortunately for them they met their match.

Well you see Japan hold on the to Diaoyu Island becuase they will never get the northern 4 islands back from the Russkies. The Chance of China getting Diaoyu back is slim even though it's very close to Taiwan. That's why China is taking a page from the Japanese playbook and is building a lot of small size portal boats to gobble up the remaining tiny Islands in the Southern China Sea.

Is not like Philippine claim those Islands in their old maps anyway.

[numble]

Well you see Japan hold on the to Diaoyu Island becuase they will never get the northern 4 islands back from the Russkies. The Chance of China getting Diaoyu back is slim even though it's very close to Taiwan. That's why China is taking a page from the Japanese playbook and is building a lot of small size portal boats to gobble up the remaining tiny Islands in the Southern China Sea. Is not like Philippine claim those Islands in their old maps anyway.

It's an interesting theory, but the whole chain of Russia, Korea, Japan, China controlling islands claimed by others is probably a coincidence.

But, I think it emphasizes an important point--if Japan argues that control=ownership, they basically undermine their own claims to the Kuril/Chishima and Dokdo/Takeshima islands, as well as undermine their ability to support Southeast Asian countries over the Paracel and Spratly islands.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Well, this was expected.

[Natetan]

Is that more Chinese destroying Chinese manufactured and owned Japanese products?

Stick it to your countrymen!

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Is that more Chinese destroying Chinese manufactured and owned Japanese products? Stick it to your countrymen!

Well, half owned by Japan.

[Natetan]

i guess. i just feel sorry for the owner. is their mob insurance?

[ChiTownBuffalo]

i guess. i just feel sorry for the owner. is their mob insurance?

In US terms, it might go under comprehensive, but lots of insurance policies have denials for civil unrest and riots.

[numble]

i guess. i just feel sorry for the owner. is their mob insurance?

It's a police car owned by the government. You can tell by the license plate (the red "警" at the end of the plate), but it's also mentioned here in this article:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/20/...r-aug-20-fore/

The protests also have an anti-government element--they think the Chinese government isn't doing enough. "Why can Japan arrest/block Chinese citizens, but China only sits and watches when Japanese citizens land on the island? And the government is buying Japanese cars?"

[numble]

The last of the activists returned on their boat yesterday, and they released video of their landing and confrontation with Japanese forces:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVixsoy2AEs

Great coverage of the complex politics of some of the activists that landed on the islands:
http://badcanto.wordpress.com/2012/0...ng-kongs-pain/

Yang Kuang, jailed in 1989 as a Guangdong labor activist:


Wearing Free Tibet shirt during Hu Jintao visit and July 1 protests:



Koo Sze-yiu, one of Long Hair's friends:


Burning PRC flag to protest death of Li Wangyang:



LOL, I just noticed this article quoted my post on Hong Kong newspapers.

[Natetan]

I find this kind of funny. I mean while you're mad at the government about japan, why not throw tibet (and taiwan even) in there too?

That does make more sense about the police car, especially if it is Japanese made (although I don't know if anyone would want a chinese brand police car at this point, maybe the north koreans? They would just be chasing people on second hand bicycles from japan anyway...)

[Draxal]

On the other hand, why doesn't Italy get as much shit for ww2?

1. Their military was incredibly incompetent, compared to the other two axis powers.
2. Their resistance was really crucial for the Italian campaign, there was nothing similar in Japan/Germany.
3. I honestly think the fact that the Soviet Union gulags, that were just ignored and other similar atrocities is a pretty huge deal as well as the Japanese atrocities. Don't get wrong what Germany did was barbaric to the extreme, but shit like the Bataan death march doesn't even get that much press.

[numble]

I find this kind of funny. I mean while you're mad at the government about japan, why not throw tibet (and taiwan even) in there too? That does make more sense about the police car, especially if it is Japanese made (although I don't know if anyone would want a chinese brand police car at this point, maybe the north koreans? They would just be chasing people on second hand bicycles from japan anyway...)

They participate in protests at other events. If he's wearing a Republic of China flag, he probably doesn't want Taiwan to be a separate country though, just supporting the KMT (who claim to be the rightful rulers of China).

Police cars in the United Kingdom are from Volvo, which is a Chinese brand. Not buying a Japanese car doesn't mean that it has to be a Chinese car anyway. They could buy Korean cars, for instance.

Edit:
I think you're confused about the photos of the activists--those are the guys that landed on the islands, not participants of the anti-Japan protests this past weekend in China.

[numble]

This is today's front page of the South China Morning Post:

[Kazerei]

So apparently numble really wants me to respond lol. What am I supposed to say? The spark of nationalism didn't last too long according to this blog.

Great coverage of the complex politics of some of the activists that landed on the islands: http://badcanto.wordpress.com/2012/0...ng-kongs-pain/

[numble]

So apparently numble really wants me to respond lol. What am I supposed to say? The spark of nationalism didn't last too long according to this blog.

That blog doesn't say anything of the sort. It talks about how some Hong Kongers are sad that their activity has "hurt" Hong Kong because it has stoked nationalism (at the expense of Hong Kong individualism/separatism). Including one person who is afraid patriotic/nationalist parties will win at the September 9 elections (because of nationalism provoked by the activists).

[Blackace]

Uhm, the comfort women issue doesn't appear to be resolved just because Japan thinks its resolved. I just did a google news search and there were all sorts of articles about it, I guess its because the anniversary of the war's end was recently. The issue here is that Japan just hasn't been contrite as Germany has, or as proactive about it. And for a long time, the previous Japanese government's contstant denial just threw salt into the wounds. I'm guessing over time it'll get better. On the other hand, why doesn't Italy get as much shit for ww2?

Japan was horrible during WWII
But the governments of both china and korea have been real wishy-washy about it accepting money and support then making noise when it suits

Korea has more better in their stance than china but have happily taken money and aid on behalf of their people

As for italy they killed their leader unlike the rest who rode until the end

[_Xenon_]

Japan was horrible during WWII But the governments of both china and korea have been real wishy-washy about it accepting money and support then making noise when it suits Korea has more better in their stance than china but have happily taken money and aid on behalf of their people As for italy they killed their leader unlike the rest who rode until the end

Funny, since when did we receive any compensation? If you are talking about ODA, then don't forget they are benefiting from it as well.

[_Xenon_]

Let me get it straight, in July there's this:

China and Japan agree currency push

This currency deal is way more important than some island dispute and the matter of fact is nobody in the government in both countries with a sense want to make the relationship go sour at this critical moment. Yet a month later this shit happens.

And let's look at this dude:

Right ... so in his mind, diaoyu island is part of our territory yet Xi'zang (Tibet), which is recognized by every country and the UN as one of our provinces, should be "free"ed?

And how can some jobless bums afford the ship & fuel anyway?

[Akainu]

Well, this was expected.

Is that car really that big or are those people small?

[Blackace]

Funny, since when did we receive any compensation? If you are talking about ODA, then don't forget they are benefiting from it as well.

we as in who? Korea, or China?

from Wiki because I don't feel like searching through my books..

Twenty years after World War II, South Korea and Japan re-established diplomatic relations with the 1965 signing of the Treaty on Basic Relations. In 2005, South Korea disclosed diplomatic documents that detailed the proceedings of the treaty. Kept secret for 40 years, the documents revealed that Japan provided 500 million dollars in soft loans and 300 million in grants to South Korea as compensation for its 1910–45 occupation, and that South Korea agreed to demand no more compensation after the treaty, either at a government-to-government level or an individual-to-government level.[21] It was also revealed that the South Korean government assumed the responsibility for compensating individuals on a lump sum basis[22] while rejecting Japan's proposal for direct compensation.[23] However, the South Korean government used most of the loans for economic development and have failed to provide adequate compensation to victims, paying only 300,000 won per death, with only a total of 2,570 million won to the relatives of 8,552 victims who died in forced labor.[22][24] As the result, the Korean victims are preparing to file a compensation suit against the South Korean government as of 2005. The treaty does not preclude individual suits against Japanese individuals or corporations but such suits are often constrained by the statute of limitation. Women's International War Crimes Tribunal on Japan's Military Sexual Slavery, a mock trial organised by and supported by international NGOs, issued a ruling that "states cannot agree by treaty to waive the liability of another state for crimes against humanity."

[numble]

And how can some jobless bums afford the ship & fuel anyway?

They got funding from a lot of different people:
http://www.scmp.com/portal/site/SCMP...ng+Kong&s=News

A spokesman for the Hong Kong-based Action Committee for Defending the Diaoyu Islands said it received financial support from leaders including Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying, Tsang Yok-sing of the pro-establishment Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong, the Civic Party's Audrey Eu Yuet-mee and former Legislative Council president Rita Fan Hsu Lai-tai. Spokesman Chan Yue-nam said the leaders all donated paintings for auction to raise funds for the voyage. He said Lew Mon-hung, a delegate of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, also made regular donations. ... CPPCC delegate Lew told the South China Morning Post he had donated HK$4 million to the Diaoyu activist group over six years, including HK$1 million last year. The committee spent much of the money on two fishing boats; the other vessel was sold because Kai Fung No2 needed costly repairs and maintenance, he said.

The Taiwan Coast Guard also delivered supplies to them:
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/n...n-supplies.htm

Taiwan's Coast Guard Administration (CGA) provided food supplies yesterday to a Hong Kong vessel on its way to the disputed Tiaoyu Islands in the East China Sea, Premier Sean Chen said. ... The activists sought to restock supplies as their ship approached Keelung Harbor in northern Taiwan early Wednesday. Responding to reporters' questions about the request, Premier Chen said the CGA delivered food supplies to the Hong Kong boat via a patrol vessel. The CGA also said in press statement issued the same day that it had provided frozen pork, chicken fillets, vegetables and drinking water to the Hong Kong activists. CGA officers also boarded the Kai Fung No. 2 for a brief inspection and confirmed that it had adequate fuel and all 14 people on board were in good health, the statement said.

[Blackace]

Japan has paid China as well in a similar fashion..

[numble]

Japan has paid China as well in a similar fashion..

Which payments? They probably weren't in a similar fashion:

China had to renounce a demand for war reparations in order to be recognized as the government of China by Japan (instead of Taiwan). Korea received war reparations.

China wasn't a part of the reparations scheme that Japan established for comfort women (Korea was).

[Blackace]

Which payments? They probably weren't in a similar fashion: China had to renounce a demand for war reparations in order to be recognized as the government of China by Japan (instead of Taiwan). Korea received war reparations. China wasn't a part of the reparations scheme that Japan established for comfort women (Korea was).

They paid the government, and the government dropped their claim and pretty much signed a treaty saying that Japan and China were good...

[numble]

They paid the government, and the government dropped their claim and pretty much signed a treaty saying that Japan and China were good...

Link? I've always read that they used diplomatic recognition as leverage to not pay reparations.

[Leckan]

They participate in protests at other events. If he's wearing a Republic of China flag, he probably doesn't want Taiwan to be a separate country though, just supporting the KMT (who claim to be the rightful rulers of China). Police cars in the United Kingdom are from Volvo, which is a Chinese brand. Not buying a Japanese car doesn't mean that it has to be a Chinese car anyway. They could buy Korean cars, for instance. Edit: I think you're confused about the photos of the activists--those are the guys that landed on the islands, not participants of the anti-Japan protests this past weekend in China.

Volvo is a Swedish brand currently owned by a Chinese company if I might add. If it was known mainly as a Chinese brand, nobody maybe outside China would want it currently.

It's like saying Lamborghini is a German brand.

[Blackace]

Link? I've always read that they used diplomatic recognition as leverage to not pay reparations.

In some ways that isn't wrong.. Japan had a lot of money tied up in China

. According to the Foreign Ministry of Japan, Japan held overseas assets of 238 billion yen in Manchukuo, China in Aug 6 1945 (still WW2 was going on). Manchukuo was a territory of Japan at that time. Fixing exchange rate was very difficult at this era. However, after Japan surrendered, the exchange rate between US$ of GHQ and Japanese JP¥ were US$1=JP¥15. If we used this rate, 238 billion yen would be about US$ 16 billion. If China demanded reparations, they also had to adjust the balance International legally. However, probably they didn't have enough money, and needed lots foreign currencies at that time. Because Mao Zedong founded PRC (People’s Republic of China) in 1949, and advanced the reforms of China and Chinese people with his communism beliefs. China had been in chaos with their Cultural Revolution and the "Down to the Countryside Movement". It was an era of the "Cold War" between the west (USA, West Europe and Japan) and communism (Soviet, China and East Europe). So Japan proposed another way of support.

And seems like both sides came up with creative ways to "pay" for the crimes...

. In 1972, Japanese prime minister Kakuei Tanaka visited China and met Mao. http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/_… After the "Joint Communique between Japan and China" on Sep 29 1972, Japan started to pay lots of money to China as the form of ODA (Official development assistance). The amount paid to China reached over US$30 billion until present day, and 20 billion of them became pure donation (China don't need to pay back the 20 bil). Chiang Kai-shek's Taiwan took the same strategy first in 1952. They renounced the reparations from Japan but he didn't allow Japanese people who lived in Taiwan to bring their properties, including cash (freezed bank account), out of Taiwan. Japan and China used this type of solution. You know the relationship between Japan and Taiwan or China (Manchuquo) before WW2 were very different from the colonies of Western countries. They were actually not a colony. Japan assumed those territories were real parts of Japan (like a province) and invested and developed those areas as much modern as Japan. Both leaders (Mao of China and Chiang of Taiwan) knew the infrastructure and local economy which Japan left was very useful.

A lot of different sources say different things.. But a lot texts have read seem to agree with these statements...

Other than that China would have no reason to betray the rights of the people harmed by Japan and renounce their right to get paid for Japan's crimes..

[numble]

In some ways that isn't wrong.. Japan had a lot of money tied up in China And seems like both sides came up with creative ways to "pay" for the crimes... A lot of different sources say different things.. But a lot texts have read seem to agree with these statements... Other than that China would have no reason to betray the rights of the people harmed by Japan and renounce their right to get paid for Japan's crimes..

Sounds like some random Yahoo Answers answer:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0192340AAdxtAZ

ODA assistance has been given to a lot of countries--it's been doled out to over 185 countries. They've never been considered reparations. Are USAID-funded projects in Vietnam considered reparations for the Vietnam War?

Formal Reparations have also been given to a lot of countries by Japan, including direct reparations to Korea (and not development loans): http://www.jiyuushikan.org/e/reparations.html (that Yahoo Answer is wrong in talking about Taiwan not getting reparations--they got direct reparations).

Compensation was also given to Comfort Women in the 1990s, but not to ones in China.

Volvo is a Swedish brand currently owned by a Chinese company if I might add. If it was known mainly as a Chinese brand, nobody maybe outside China would want it currently. It's like saying Lamborghini is a German brand.

Natelan is suggesting that even Chinese wouldn't buy Chinese police cars, except North Korea. Chinese consider Volvo a Chinese brand, the same way they consider Thinkpad/Lenovo to be Chinese, and I don't think the government would be confused when buying police vehicles.

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Let's just set teams on GAF and be done with it.

Team Korea or Team Japan.

Wait, that means I'd be on the same team as K-Pop Gaf. Fuck.

Let's hug it out.

[Log4Girlz]

Let's just set teams on GAF and be done with it. Team Korea or Team Japan. Wait, that means I'd be on the same team as K-Pop Gaf. Fuck. Let's hug it out.

Who can say no to that avatar.

[Leckan]

Natelan is suggesting that even Chinese wouldn't buy Chinese police cars, except North Korea. Chinese consider Volvo a Chinese brand, the same way they consider Thinkpad/Lenovo to be Chinese, and I don't think the government would be confused when buying police vehicles.

I guess that makes sense.

But Volvo isn't known as a Chinese brand anywhere outside China as far as I'm aware and that's a good thing. There's a reason they aren't using Geely or BYD for their police vehicles after all. So basically the Chinese government themselves are saying that their self-made cars aren't up to snuff yet, although naturally that will change in the future. Maybe on the other hand; it being known as a Chinese brand in China as you say might be an advantage rather than a disadvantage?

Regardless I don't think Volvo cares as long as they sell.