[Forever]

Guys he said to forget about Versus remember. Why aren't you forgetting!?

At this point I have to assume something crazy is going on with Versus. Maybe it's being moved to next gen. Maybe it's become FFXV. Maybe they've decided to shoehorn it into becoming FFVII-2. Maybe Nomura hates his team and wants them to suffer forever.

Something along those lines. Mark my words, when Versus resurfaces some crazy shit will have happened.

[kuroshiki]

Lost Odyssey was great, wtf? Combat was slow, but the story, world, and characters were so good.

I will give you that dream of thousand years was good.

Story was just bleh. Combat was one of the most slowest combat I've ever seen in JRPG. EVER. Totally killed the game for me.

LO was just not a great game.

[Meccanical]

At this point I have to assume something crazy is going on with Versus. Maybe it's being moved to next gen. Maybe it's become FFXV. Maybe they've decided to shoehorn it into becoming FFVII-2. Maybe Nomura hates his team and wants them to suffer forever.

Or maybe they enjoy working on Versus so much they want to work on it forever and never release it, make it a game only SE employees can play.

Wouldn't that be a hoot.

[SpinDasher]

FFXIII-2 wasn't too bad, but I'm just tired of those characters, and the battle system should've been that way in the first FFXIII. I beat FFXIII, didn't think it was a bad game, but it was just shallow in some areas. And it took way too long for the battle system to actually pick up and become somewhat engaging. Anyways, SE has some work to, they need to get things to where they were. If those rumors regarding FFXV are true, then I'll be a happy man.

And...

Wow, never understood the FFXII hate, it's the best FF to be released post FFIX. Despite a few flaws, no other FF had a better atmosphere or world, game was huge and immersible. The characters aren't the best, but there was none of that melodramatic bullshit the series or most JRPG's are known for. And it was one of the few FF's with good dialogue and lol moments in the story, with good voice acting across the board. The story was based around politics which I think threw people off.

The game was cram packed with content, and you can easily log in over 100hrs or so doing side quest and killing some of the special monster or creatures. There was no anime cuteness, and the game had a distinct look, and were top of the line at the time. It looked more like a Vagrant Story typish game than FF.

While it may not be the best FF to most people, hell, I don't even think it's the best FF. However, it is my personal favorite FF. Love this game.

[Shinta]

I will give you that dream of thousand years was good. Story was just bleh. Combat was one of the most slowest combat I've ever seen in JRPG. EVER. Totally killed the game for me. LO was just not a great game.

Agreed. Parts of LO are really good, particularly the written story flashbacks. It's also probably Uematsu's last good OST. But the game is very overrated at the same time. The combat is generally slow and not that interesting. They had a few interesting ideas with the front and back rows in combat formation, but that was about it. And most of the characters aren't very good.

[Meccanical]

FFXIII-2 wasn't too bad, but I'm just tired of those characters, and the battle system should've been that way in the first FFXIII. I beat FFXIII, didn't think it was a bad game, but it was just shallow in some areas. And it took way too long for the battle system to actually pick up and become somewhat engaging. Anyways, SE has some work to, they need to get things to where they were. If those rumors regarding FFXV are true, then I'll be a happy man. And... Wow, never understood the FFXII hate, it's the best FF to be released post FFIX. Despite a few flaws, no other FF had a better atmosphere or world, game was huge and immersible. The characters aren't the best, but there was none of that melodramatic bullshit the series or most JRPG's are known for. And it was one of the few FF's with good dialogue and lol moments in the story, with good voice acting across the board. The story was based around politics which I think threw people off.

While I agree that FFXII is actually pretty damn good in hindsight, the fact that the story was political in nature did not give it grounds for the game to be so damn boring scenario wise.

I can honestly say that while playing the game I felt like there were no real stand out moments at all, like none, zero.

Then again it's probably the only FF that made sense from beginning to end so props for that.

[_Keiichi_]

I think firing Toriyama and replacing Wada will restore the faith in Square Enix in many pretty fast, Yoshida-san.

[SpinDasher]

While I agree that FFXII is actually pretty damn good in hindsight, the fact that the story was political in nature did not give it grounds for the game to be so damn boring scenario wise. I can honestly say that while playing the game I felt like there were no real stand out moments at all, like none, zero. Then again it's probably the only FF that made sense from beginning to end so props for that.

And the only FF with good dialogue and voice acting, lol.

I can agree to some of that, there isn't a standout moment, but the moments I remember most are actually within the gameplay. The vast environments, getting lost, running into enemies too powerful for my party, looting, and some of the other great things about it. There were a few memorable cutscenes, very very few, but there was nothing over the top and they didn't try too hard to make you feel sorry for the characters.

But I can see what you mean, it didn't have that typical FF charm, I actually remember more things from FFXIII, sadly. But all those things I remember aren't particularly good, so that's not a compliment to FFXIII. Lol.

[Meccanical]

Yeah, for me the most memorable part of FFXII will be doing the hunts.

I forgot about the plot entirely, it was basically Fantasy Hunter Simulator 2005.

And the locales were very impressive, amazing what they could squeeze out of the PS2, it especially shines on an emulator.

[Shinta]

I think firing Toriyama and replacing Wada will restore the faith in Square Enix in many pretty fast, Yoshida-san.

It would probably do the exact opposite. "Oh guess they're about to go out of business," "guess the rats are leaving the sinking ship" and on and on.

Toriyama is good. FFX, X-2, XIII, and XIII-2 are all good. They don't just toss out people who know how to complete projects of that size and complexity. And honestly, I think X, XIII and XIII-2 all have the most interesting endings in the series. 3rd Birthday also has an extremely interesting story twist at the end.

Asking for people to get fired that you've never met and really know nothing about is just ... sad.

Also Wada was probably key in the Eidos acquisition, and in approving 2 years of funding for rebuilding XIV. SQEX's western publishing presence has also improved steadily for years now. He's not doing a bad job right now. They have two new MMOs launched, and their next gen engine is already lined up, and they've expanded into iOS, and social gaming.

[Meccanical]

3rd Birthday also has an extremely interesting story twist at the end.

Ugh.

Just....ugh.

[Shinta]

Ugh. Just....ugh.

Really put me in my place there.

[Meccanical]

Really put me in my place there.

You did it too yourself just fine.

[CaptNfantasy]

Nah, it'll take 5 seconds as long as what you show doesnt suck. Quit making terrible FF games and return to your roots and problem solved. And get the original composer back for the love of christ almighty.

[SpinDasher]

it especially shines on an emulator.

Unfortunately my PC is shit, well it isn't bad, I can run Mass Effect 3 at highest settings, and the Dolphin emulator runs just fine. You'd think I'd be able to run a PS2 emulator, nope.

But yea, FFXII was definitely cutting edge at the time. And yea there was quite a few quest, haha, but they were fun to go on.

[CorvoSol]

Yet another Final Fantasy 13 sequel will certainly help speed things along!

As long as it doesn't pull anywhere near the levels of crap that XIII-2's story did . . . who am I kidding XIII is doomed to be haunted by Toriyama forever.

Oh well, Type-0 restored my faith anyway.

It would probably do the exact opposite. "Oh guess they're about to go out of business," "guess the rats are leaving the sinking ship" and on and on. Toriyama is good. FFX, X-2, XIII, and XIII-2 are all good. They don't just toss out people who know how to complete projects of that size and complexity. And honestly, I think X, XIII and XIII-2 all have the most interesting endings in the series. 3rd Birthday also has an extremely interesting story twist at the end. Asking for people to get fired that you've never met and really know nothing about is just ... sad. Also Wada was probably key in the Eidos acquisition, and in approving 2 years of funding for rebuilding XIV. SQEX's western publishing presence has also improved steadily for years now. He's not doing a bad job right now. They have two new MMOs launched, and their next gen engine is already lined up, and they've expanded into iOS, and social gaming.

BERSERK MODE ACTIVATE!

NO, no, 3rd Birthday did NOT have a good twist at the end, and now I will illustrate to you why you are completely, totally, and thoroughly WRONG in saying that:

The twists in 3rd Birthday's godawful mind blowingly terrible ending are as follows: 1)Aya's boss is the main villain. 2)Everything happened because of the events at Aya's wedding. 3)The Twisted ARE Aya. 4) Aya is actually EVE. None of those are at all good. Aya's boss being the main bad guy is so PAINFULLY obvious from the moment the player first lays eyes on him that you'd have an easier time convincing anyone that Cruella De Ville's villainy in 101 Dalmations was a surprise twist. For starters, just like Cruella, his name gives him away. HYDE. As in, he's hiding something. At least, he would be, if Toriyama had any sense of subtlety. But he doesn't. Instead, in the first boss fight in the game, Hyde's already creep talking to Aya over the phone "Are you . . . scared Aya? Goooooooood. The deaaaaaad don't feeeeeeel fear." It's so in your face the ENTIRE game that there's something sinister about the guy that all he's missing is a black cape.

Aya's wedding is a clusterfuck of a scene. THE EVENT that triggers the game is NEVER explained EVER. A bunch of storm troopers are in a chapel and shoot at Aya. NO EXPLANATION. They shoot her husband. NO EXPLANATION. THEY SHOOT THE PRIEST. NO EXPLANATION. But wait! Aya had a bullet proof vest? Except she didn't in the first version of the flashback? And if Aya's friends are all locked outside of the wedding, which makes no damn sense why is nobody in the stupid chapel but her, her sister, husband and the priest when her friends CLEARLY dressed up for the wedding? How did the guards get in if the door was locked? That whole scene is stupid, and to make matters WORSE, the idea of a villain traveling through time is about as hackneyed as it gets for a Square Enix game at this point. Especially if said villain is going to create a time-loop. Like, honestly, that's FINAL FANTASY I's twist. Oh, and FINAL FANTASY VIII's. But this is Toriyama, so stealing is permitted. Oh, and shooting Aya? What the hell, why was that needed if we came back in time to PREVENT Hyde's time loop? Why does Kyle marry Eve when he KNOWS it's Eve in Aya's body? Why does he marry her and then immediately ditch her? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY? BECAUSE TORIYAMA CAN'T WRITE. If I put a gun up to Toriyama's head and told him to write something, he'd write about time traveling sisters, because that's what he does.

Surely you don't mean that Aya being Eve is the twist, because how could anybody ever give two fucks about that? Aya's character changes so many times over the course of the game that it doesn't matter. More importantly, we all played Ghost Trick and saw how a game does this exact same plot, only with class, style, and GOOD WRITING.

The only remotely defensible twist you could mean is that the Twisted are Aya, and that's such a never explained throw away comment that whatever. The Third Birthday is horrible. From the time the game begins until it ends it is TERRIBLE. Why does Owen hate Aya and conspire to kill Gabriel? Why does Sazh kill all those people, then two seconds later he has no beef with Aya and she has none with him? Why does the entire CTI suddenly die after that? Why does Aya's character change completely after that? How did she suddenly wind up with Maeda? What happened to Maeda that left him a total pervert? Why does Toriyama keep shoving Aya's sexuality on me when he's already told me that Aya is in fact a little girl trapped in a grown woman's body? WHY WERE THOSE GUARDS SHOOTING AYA? The event that causes EVERYTHING in this game is something Toriyama NEVER explains.

The Third Birthday is absolute trash and will forever be the albatross about Toriyama's neck. Though Tabata and Shimomura fought valiantly, they could not defeat this ungodly demon, and stop him from ruining anything that Parasite Eve once was. The game does not have a beginning, middle and end. It's characters are incoherent and inconsistent, and it's disturbing that the most genuinely entertaining stimulating interactions in the game are scenes which, when viewed apart from the game, are objectively awful.

To make a lengthy, vicious post short, no, not the Third Birthday does NOT have a good twist.

[DarkKyo]

first step: stick FF7 stuff into your game to appeal to their nostalgia.

They're already putting FF6's Magitek armor in-- I'd say that's a start!

[King of the Potato People]

Nah, it'll take 5 seconds as long as what you show doesnt suck. Quit making terrible FF games and return to your roots and problem solved. And get the original composer back for the love of christ almighty.

I think it's a good thing Nobuo Uematsu has had replacements, it's allowed for more diversity in the OSTs. The last few FF games, even with their uneven quality, have had great OSTs.

[Shamdeo]

Gold Saucer is a possibility according to Yoshida -- he wants to do it at least.

[Meccanical]

Gold Saucer is a possibility according to Yoshida -- he wants to do it at least.

Sticking all this old FF stuff into XIV seems like a big "PLEASE LIKE OUR GAME, OH GOD PLEASE" to me.

But fanservice never hurt anyone.

[CorvoSol]

I think it's a good thing Nobuo Uematsu has had replacements, it's allowed for more diversity in the OSTs. The last few FF games, even with their uneven quality, have had great OSTs.

Give me a game where the soundtrack is a collaboration between Uematsu and Shimomura and I will be pleased as punch.

[Meccanical]

Give me a game where the soundtrack is a collaboration between Uematsu and Shimomura and I will be pleased as punch.

Don't make me want things that don't and won't exist.

[Gummb]

I hope, for the health of the company, that they succeed in gaining back support. Maybe Eidios should co-develop the next Final Fantasy game, but for now, I think it should remain a Japanese-developed game.

[Rpgmonkey]

Between the horrible start and current state of MMOs I'm not sure how much FFXIV will contribute, but it's a good first step. I guess he admits that much already though.

I feel like the series is kind of in a rut right now, but I'll still keep an eye on whatever they're working on.

[Forever]

Gold Saucer is a possibility according to Yoshida -- he wants to do it at least.

Like, a reimagining of it or is it going to be the actual Gold Saucer?

[PerZona]

Will be looking forward to FFXIV 2.0, so far it looks great. Not sure if I have the time to play a MMORPG though..

[Perfo]

I just hope the identity of his XIV isn't lost by adding in so many fanservice bits like the Gold Saucer, Crystal Tower, magitek armor, limit breaks, etc.

Yeah, that's my big concern too. If he thinks regaining trust just means adding fanservice, he really doesn't get what made Final Fantasy such a great series to begin with.

Perfo Motomu Toriyama #1 Fan (Today, 11:25 AM) Toriyama is a hack and Yoshida should be throwing him under the bus for the good of Square-Enix.

As you see I was right. N.Yoshida in the interview was referring to XIV and just how XIV damaged the brand. Yet people here are speaking of XIII, XIII-2 and VIII while ignoring completely the OT. Lol.

[BillyBats]

How about a reboot? Dump the numbers and make the next release just Final Fantasy. Go back to what made 7 - 10 fan favorites. Cherry pick the best parts, keep open world exploration and start fresh.

[_Keiichi_]

Asking for people to get fired that you've never met and really know nothing about is just ... sad.

I dunno. Toriyama is a writer. He can't write jack shit. Why should he be allowed to work? He already fucked and ruined enough franchises.

Also Wada was probably key in the Eidos acquisition, and in approving 2 years of funding for rebuilding XIV. SQEX's western publishing presence has also improved steadily for years now. He's not doing a bad job right now. They have two new MMOs launched, and their next gen engine is already lined up, and they've expanded into iOS, and social gaming.

Square Enix is pretty much everyone laughing stock right now. Versus development is a mess, FFXIV was a mess, FFXIII was a mess (Post-Mortem anyone?), FFXIII-2 sold only half of XIII, almost everything they released in the past years with the FF name in it was a joke and brought shame to the company. Fans ask for Versus and they say "fuck you, have more XIII!" They couldn't even get FFVII re-release right! Something is quite not right with Square-Enix. The company lack of any direction and the internal management is a mess. And he's the President, those things are his faults.

Also

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=485644

3rd Birthday also has an extremely interesting story twist at the end.

[Perfo]

How about a reboot?

We will get there eventually when Final Fantasy will be developed by Eidos (and my suicide for this could follow shortly after :-( ).

[encephalon]

I don't think it's possible for them to receive widescale fan support.

3rd Birthday also has an extremely interesting story twist at the end.

What 'twist' in particular are you talking about? The ending mostly attempts to reveal what has actually happened in the game, which is a mystery up into that point. In this ending, we learn that ...

A SWAT team is sent in by Hyde to shoot at Aya for either no reason or the existence of a hierarchy of supernatural beings that do not yet exist and have no basis for existence. Again, 'no reason.' Then Eve gains a new ability to dive into Aya's body for no reason. This breaks Aya's heart for no reason. These broken shards of super natural nonsense form monsters for no reason.

Edited.

[_Keiichi_]

Every time someone brings up the 3rd Birthday a fan of Parasite Eve dies.
Can't we just pretend the whole story didn't happen? That's what i do, anyway.

[SolidSnakex]

How about a reboot? Dump the numbers and make the next release just Final Fantasy. Go back to what made 7 - 10 fan favorites. Cherry pick the best parts, keep open world exploration and start fresh.

Isn't every FF essentially a reboot? They're tend to be fairly different from the last entry.

[CorvoSol]

Every time someone brings up the 3rd Birthday a fan of Parasite Eve dies. Can't we just pretend the whole story didn't happen? That's what i do, anyway.

No, because it is the cross we will force Toriyama and his fans to carry to the peaks of the Internet, where we will crucify him between the Tomb Raider PR club and that one guy in Nintendo of America whose singular job is ensuring that Earthbound is never allowed to set foot in the Western Hemisphere.

[Esura]

I guess I'm the only PE fan who likes The Third Birthday....

[Unknown Soldier]

I hope, for the health of the company, that they succeed in gaining back support. Maybe Eidios should co-develop the next Final Fantasy game, but for now, I think it should remain a Japanese-developed game.

Final Fantasy is the quintessential JRPG. They don't need Eidos for anything, they just need to consolidate talent in SE Japan and focus on making one or two good games because so many of their best have left the company in recent years.

[Dresden]

ffxiv 2.0 looks pretty good, I wish them well. Honestly their art and design for the MMO is what I'd like to see from a more traditional FF title.

[∀ Narayan]

A Versus trailer would probably help you a lot.

Fuck trailers. I would actually like to play the game sometime while I'm still alive and well.

[lantus]

Maybe they should look at the underlying problem of why XIV failed and why they have to gain back people's trust. I've been hearing about them trying to get better since before XIII launched and I have yet to really see any improvement other than the great games eidos has been putting out. They need leaders and people who really know how to get shit done around there.

[Jeff_Chen]

Just gimme the FF7 remake and my trust & money is all yours.

Deal? I doubt it.

[Kagari]

As you see I was right. N.Yoshida in the interview was referring to XIV and just how XIV damaged the brand. Yet people here are speaking of XIII, XIII-2 and VIII while ignoring completely the OT. Lol.

Realistically, Perfo... you can't deny that XIII has damaged the brand to some extent. A small fraction of people who played XIII returned for the sequel, where as with FFX it was a much greater percent for X-2.

You need to also take into consideration that a good portion of the fanbase has not played nor heard of FFXIV since it was rushed to release on PC only. The blame can't be placed squarely on FFXIV.

[Aeana]

Realistically, Perfo... you can't deny that XIII has damaged the brand to some extent. A small fraction of people who played XIII returned for the sequel, where as with FFX it was a much greater percent for X-2. You need to also take into consideration that a good portion of the fanbase has not played nor heard of FFXIV since it was rushed to release on PC only. The blame can't be placed squarely on FFXIV.

Whether FF13 damaged the brand or not, I don't think people not returning for a sequel to FF13 is indicative of damage to the brand at large. It just means that people didn't like FF13 so they didn't want to play a sequel to it.

[ULTROS!]

They should really set Toriyama aside to scenario director, I dunno but he's only good at that (see FFX).

Tabata should be the director for FFXV with Nojima as the writer.

[Shinta]

Realistically, Perfo... you can't deny that XIII has damaged the brand to some extent.

In my honest opinion, I think the main thing that's damaged the brand is extremely negative press. When FFXII came out, most video game consumers still got their news from magazines like EGM that have a lot better editorial judgment and sense of responsibility than sites like Kotaku that push controversy for hits.

I honestly don't think XIII is all that different from FFX. If people made up their own minds, rather than read negative news on it every day for years, I think a lot more people would have liked it. Lightning is fairly popular. The graphics and OST were well received, and the battle system was praised by quite a few people.

The biggest thing damaging the FF brand is the east vs. west mentality in games media, and the switch from print media to tabloid websites.

The hive mind mentality of online communities almost completely eliminates alternative opinions on SQEX products. Even me saying that I thought the twist at the end of 3rd Birthday was neat brought out quotes like this.

No, because it is the cross we will force Toriyama and his fans to carry to the peaks of the Internet, where we will crucify him between the Tomb Raider PR club and that one guy in Nintendo of America whose singular job is ensuring that Earthbound is never allowed to set foot in the Western Hemisphere.

Simply put, it's "cool" to hate FFXIII online. It's not really a rational position to hate it to the extent that people do though. The game is well made and enjoyable in lots of ways, and the sequel addressed many of the concerns critics had with the first game.

The same goes for the 3rd Birthday. It's probably the best looking PSP game on the system, or maybe 2nd place behind Type-0. The OST is my personal pick for best OST of 2010 (it has 3 composers and it's 3 discs long). The combat was done by Hexa Drive, who is made up of ex-DMC3 team members. The voice acting is done by Yvonne Strahovsky from Mass Effect 2 and Chuck, and the story had some dark moments and interesting twists. Some of the classics from SQEX would never have stood up to the insane levels of scrutiny their modern products get. Back in the day, people would pick up stuff like Ehrgeiz, just cause.

[Victrix]

My anecdotal evidence says you're completely wrong

In my circle of friends, which has five people who all love FF games, four of whom don't read gaming mags or website reviews

One finished the game (and said he didn't think it was particularly good, with a terrible story), the other four didn't get past a few hours into the game and dropped it saying they hated it

[Kokonoe]

I've only put in any real time in FF1, FF7, and FF11. I'm currently at the last part of FF13 and have been for a while, and I honestly forced myself to even get that far. It's not a hivemind that this game is considered lackluster, people honestly (myself included) consider it to be highly subpar compared to previous entries or even as an RPG all on it's own.

It's one of the most linear RPGs I've played, and has one of the most uninspiring, unentertaining combat systems that I've experienced, and the way everything puts itself together just seems so empty in my opinion.

[henhowc]

Need to localize and release Type-0 on PSN and XBL. That was a supposedly a pretty good FF game no?

[Shinta]

people honestly (myself included) consider it to be highly subpar compared to previous entries or even as an RPG all on it's own.

I just don't buy it. It has an 83 on Metacritic, and an 8.0 user rating, with over 1,583 user reviews. If the game didn't say FFXIII on the cover no one would be heavily criticizing it.

Compare it to Atlus, who hasn't even managed to put out a single HD RPG this gen, or Level-5 with the terrible White Knight Chronicles. If they put out something on par with FFXIII, people would have completely lost it. The game just isn't that bad, at all.

The peer pressure to hate the game, and the company is kind of insane. I typed one sentence about 3rd Birthday up above and got this.

Ugh. Just....ugh.

BERSERK MODE ACTIVATED!

Even the people that did like it are probably hiding out, for fear of mass insulting. It's been like this since 2008, the entire time. You guys really think this has no effect on what people think of the game? It's kind of astonishing that XIII-2 sold at all in the face of this kind of sustained smear campaign.

My anecdotal evidence says you're completely wrong In my circle of friends, which has five people who all love FF games, four of whom don't read gaming mags or website reviews One finished the game (and said he didn't think it was particularly good, with a terrible story), the other four didn't get past a few hours into the game and dropped it saying they hated it

My friends all really enjoyed it, but it's fine. I believe you. I'm not saying every person on the planet loved it. But there's no reason for anyone to act like FFXIII killed their parents.

[Tarrasque]

Please do the following: Make a game like FF6/FF7/FF8 in which the cast is not comprised of unrelatable, androgynous metrosexuals. You can do that by firing Testuya Nomura, who's lost his mind completely at this point and believes that's what western audiences want to see. At least Final Fantasy X gave us characters like Auron, who looked like they had some balls and a mild air of badass. Give someone else creative control of the franchise and let them return to the roots, that's what I'm seeing with Bravely Default..A handheld title that's excited me more than anything the companies released over the last 5-7 years.

What was wonderful about the older games is that they were still somewhat grounded in reality, or resembled locations that weren't a bizarre high fantasy/high scifi mishmash of nonsense. It's gone too far, and audiences are just dropping off. They can't relate to something so unfamiliar.

Enough shitty cash in spinoffs trying to prey on our nostalgia. It just dilutes how special Final Fantasy used to feel. If they continue to spinoff FFXIII, I'm going to lose my f***ing mind. Who's supporting this nonsense?

[ULTROS!]

I dunno but what I think is killing FF is the long release times of the *offline* mothership titles (FFX 2001, FFXII 2006, FFXIII 2010 - 3 FFs in an almost 10 year span whereas 7 FFs in 1990-2000) and the many ports of older FF games.