[Gray Man]

He is right. While TDKR is good and entertaining, it`s not art to me. I`ve heard a bunch of people I know say it is one of most artistic films ever and stuff... yet they wouldn`t be caught dead watching something from Buñuel or the like.

Oh really, what qualifies as art for you? Is it not "Indie" enough for you? Let me guess..... Citizen Kane!

[WillyFive]

Comic books haven't been good for kids since like, what, half a century (?). So many covers and panels this past decade have had half-naked characters and graphic scenes of violence. That's probably that's why the comic book industry is falling apart. No new audience entering the market, they are all still trying to appeal to the same comic book fans.

[CFK]

Oh really, what qualifies as art for you? Is it not "Indie" enough for you?

Not necessarily. It was just an example. I just dont think TDKR o TDK are art. I don`t want to get into arguments.

Indie doesn`t mean a movie is art either, or the other way around anyways.

You`re just trying to make me sound like a snobby douche with your indie comment.

And yes, I love Citizen Kane and think it is art.

[thabiz]

I think Memento and The Dark Knight trilogy are very different movies, and for the most part both really well done on my level. I think "Memento" and "Inception" are a little overrated, but they are still good movies. I think Christopher Nolan has the rare ability to wrap the world and stories he creates with a sense of greatness, larger than you, more grand than you can imagine. This is really good, because it helps hide, or dull down any plot issues, script, etc.

Completely different. thats why this thread is kind of pointless. Apples to oranges.

This thread is needed if he said the opposite. That would be shocking coming from a man like Cronenberg.

[olympia]

Hahaha, this is coming from the guy who made ExistenZ

[Count Dookkake]

Oh really, what qualifies as art for you? Is it not "Indie" enough for you? Let me guess..... Citizen Kane!

"Indie" and "art" do not go hand-in-hand, as evidenced by Verhoeven versus festival bait.

[thabiz]

Not necessarily. It was just an example. I just dont think TDKR o TDK are art. I don`t want to get into arguments.

They are art. just a different kind. all movies are art.

[CFK]

They are art. just a different kind. all movies are art.

not Jack and Jill :P

[Eidan]

not Jack and Jill :P

Sure it is. Just shitty, half-assed, soulless art.

[thabiz]

Hahaha, this is coming from the guy who made ExistenZ

hahaha the guy who made The Prestige.

[Hot Coldman]

not Jack and Jill :P

Well, that's advertainment, so of course it ain't

[FStop7]

He mad


But on the other hand it's hard to argue against someone with that resume. Dude's directed some iconic films.

[Reiko]

He's talking about superhero stuff though.

Movie was unrealistic. Dude was a superhero without a cape.

[Eidan]

hahaha the guy who made The Prestige.

The Prestige is great.

[LiveFromKyoto]

The average age of superhero comics is mid 20s now. At $4 a pop no kid can afford them. By definition, they're not made for kids.

[thabiz]

The Prestige is great.

I have successfully proven why this thread is completely pointless. Its one mans opinion.

[The Technomancer]

I think it's still Batman running around in a stupid cape.

No! Its not! That's my biggest problem with the movie! Its like three hours long and you get maybe 45 minutes of that with Batman in it!

[Quackula]

Sure it is. Just shitty, half-assed, soulless art.

I think calling Jack and Jill "half-assed" is giving it too much credit.

maybe "quarter-assed"

[CFK]

No! Its not! That's my biggest problem with the movie! Its like three hours long and you get maybe 45 minutes of that with Batman in it!

Now, that is true.

[Count Dookkake]

The average age of superhero comics is mid 20s now. At $4 a pop no kid can afford them. By definition, they're not made for kids.

Kids can't afford iPads.

[my name is ed]

If you don't realize how wannabe edgy that looks then I don't know what to tell you. That being said, I loved TDKR but I get what he says.

The image is from Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns which is satirical so 'wannabe edgy' is kind of its schtick

[Wuthering_Heights]

Somebody should tell him bitterness and jealousy are not attractive qualities.

[DominoKid]

Hater in the hoooouse

This man directed Crash. I liked Crash. *runs*

i did too lol

[thabiz]

Somebody should tell him bitterness and jealousy are not attractive qualities.

I highly doubt he is bitter or jealous of the batman films. This is getting hilarious.

Lets start shitting on The Last Emperor cause it didn't have a bat wing.

[Trurl]

Just wanted to bring this out because fuck this term

Sometimes I think that the term "graphic novel" can make sense for work that is published in a certain way. to the best of my knowledge, Craig Thompson's work is published originally large bound volumes, the way a traditional novel would be.

For the most part I avoid the term and simply call western comics, monthly comics, manga, and anything else "comics." If I'm feeling pretentious I might use the term "sequential art."

[thetrin]

Superhero comics are about as adolescent as any mythological pantheon. The characters represent specific archetypes and make certain decisions in accordance to that archetype.

[CFK]

Somebody should tell him bitterness and jealousy are not attractive qualities.

He doesn`t need to be jealous. He has directed some great mildly successful movies

[Stet]

Superhero comics are about as adolescent as any mythological pantheon. The characters represent specific archetypes and make certain decisions in accordance to that archetype.

Sure, but the most successful and critically acclaimed superhero comics are the ones that turn those archetypes on their heads.

[Dany M]

Christopher Nolan's best movie is 'Memento,' and that is an interesting movie.

He speaks the TRUTH

[The Technomancer]

Sure, but the most successful and critically acclaimed superhero comics are the ones that turn those archetypes on their heads.

I don't think I'd say Nolan's movies, or TDKR specifically, did that though. They explored the archetypes in some interesting ways but I'm really hard pressed to call anything about them subversive.

[Sorcerer]

Cronenberg made Pattison the star of his movie.

I do not think Cronenburg should be speaking of art.

[FanTomasas]

While I could agree with this statement about other super hero movies (Avengers, Spider-Man etc), there is no way that applies to new Batman movies.

[Funky Papa]

Cronenberg has earned the right to say whatever the fuck he wants, specially when he is off his meds.

[thabiz]

Sure, but the most successful and critically acclaimed superhero comics are the ones that turn those archetypes on their heads.

I seem to recall Burton's Batman was critically acclaimed.

We just live in dark, edgy times. To make money you need to pander to the masses. In 10-20 years it will be a different take on superheroes that makes all the money and get all the praise.

[Gray Man]

Not necessarily. It was just an example. I just dont think TDKR o TDK are art. I don`t want to get into arguments. Indie doesn`t mean a movie is art either, or the other way around anyways. You`re just trying to make me sound like a snobby douche with your indie comment.

I don't want to start anything, but I'm very surprised you have the gull and audacity to claim something isn't art.

You may not like TDKR, but you can't say its not art, it can be shitty art in your eyes, it can be great art. Its still art.

You don't get to decide what art is, unless of course I missed the memo.

[WinFonda]

Yeah Batman.. for kids!

Most people discover Batman when they're kids. I'd hazard a guess most of us on GAF discovered Batman through a cartoon that used to air on FOX Kids in the 90s... younger people learn about Batman through newer cartoons... and older generations learned about Batman through the Adam West series in the 50s... so yeah... you can't be as popular a superhero as Batman without first appealing to kids.

[Quackula]

I seem to recall Burton's Batman was critically acclaimed.

he's talking about comics themselves, not movies

[WonkersTHEWatilla]

I wonder if he saw TDK.

[thabiz]

Cronenberg made Pattison the star of his movie. I do not think Cronenburg should be speaking of art.

How was his performance?

I cant believe Nolan cast Heath Ledger as the Joker. Pffft.

I seem to recall that statement come up a few times.

[Hehateme]

I should watch Memento one of these days.

[thabiz]

he's talking about comics themselves, not movies

Sorry misread. So many batmans flying around.

[CFK]

I don't want to start anything, but I'm very surprised you have the gull and audacity to claim something isn't art. You may not like TDKR, but you can't say its not art, it can be shitty art in your eyes, it can be great art. Its still art. You don't get to decide what art is, unless of course I missed the memo.

I haven`t. I`m not some sort of authority on that, nor have I implied I am. It`s my opinion, and my opinion is that they`re not art, just like yours may be the opposite.

[Dany M]

I should watch Memento one of these days.

You should. It is Nolan's best film of forever.

[WillyFive]

You should. It is Nolan's best film of forever.

However, you should mention that the movie is very gimmicky, so it may not be for everyone. Your enjoyment depends on whether you can find the movie's style of storytelling enjoyable.

[thabiz]

I haven`t. I`m not some sort of authority on that, nor have I implied I am. It`s my opinion, and my opinion is that they`re not art, just like yours may be the opposite.

ART

the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art.

ALL film is art.

[WillyFive]

ART the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance. any field using the skills or techniques of art: advertising art; industrial art. ALL film is art.

Yeah.

I never understood why people argue something someone made is not art. On what grounds?

[LeBrick James]

Most people are just acknowledging that the Batman trilogy is obviously smarter and more mature than what you'll see from other comic superhero films. This is where it gets most of its credit. No reason to get upset about it.

[macuser1of5]

Not really seeing how he is wrong.

And I loved the avengers.

[DancingCactus77]

Crash (1996)

no he didn't, that was Paul Haggis

[LiveFromKyoto]

Kids can't afford iPads.

I'm not sure I follow. Comics cost the same on the Marvel & DC apps.