[Stet]

for a very long time comics and therefore superheroes by proxy, are for kids.

For a very long time when? 1940 through 1970? I think it's time to get over our prejudices.

[evilromero]

I would argue that comics have a history with adolescent storylines. I won't disagree that the medium offers stories for young adults but I still see his viewpoint on this. The movie was washed with way too much critical praise where no praise was due. They are good films. Are they great? I don't believe these last two could be considered great. Are they art? I can see why he is critical with this stance. It is melodramatic yes, but most certainly not high art. I don't think anyone should argue it is.

[thabiz]

You don't succumb to the pressure of money and big studios and only make movies you want to make? And be Canadian a.k.a be cool.

You also spread your work out over your career, so you don't get burnt out.

[thabiz]

For a very long time when? 1940 through 1970? I think it's time to get over our prejudices.

We are talking about a quote from a man who grew up in that very timeframe. Also i really dont think he gives a shit if comics have moved on from the days when he read them. Thats what he remembers.

[Stet]

We are talking about a quote from a man who grew up in that very timeframe. Also i really dont think he gives a shit if comics have moved on from the days when he read them. Thats what he remembers.

Ha ha ha, Cronenberg is hardly a geriatric. He reads more than you could possibly imagine and probably watches hundreds of films a year, including comic book films. He's acted in such powerhouse movies as The Stupids and Jason X. And beyond all that, he's a smart and creative person with very few prejudices. The reason his comment is stupid is because it does not say anything about his character.

[ChefRamsay]

His quote just reeks of jealousy.

It takes a very smart, accomplished man to manage a $250M picture. To throw budget back in Nolan's face is silly. The fact that more people have seen TDKR than all of Cronenberg's movies combined probably makes his soul burn at night.

[WonkersTHEWatilla]

Arguments about what constitutes 'art' always devolves into faux-intellectual wankery, so I think it best be avoided most of the time. Especially when it involves people going back and forth about the value of one thing over another.

Cronenberg can have whatever opinion he likes, and all the power to those who agree with him, but I think he started sounding like a prick the moment he made an argument about "high art".

[evilromero]

His quote just reeks of jealousy. It takes a very smart, accomplished man to manage a $250M picture. To throw budget back in Nolan's face is silly. The fact that more people have seen TDKR than all of Cronenberg's movies combined probably makes his soul burn at night.

You forgot the /sarcasm script.

[thabiz]

Ha ha ha, Cronenberg is hardly a geriatric. He reads more than you could possibly imagine and probably watches hundreds of films a year, including comic book films. He's acted in such powerhouse movies as The Stupids. And beyond all that, he's a smart and creative person with very few prejudices. The reason his comment is stupid is because it does not say anything about his character.

hes was born in 43.

I think it speaks directly to his character as a film maker. He's an auteur. He doesnt make hollywood movies. So, yes i think his quote is directly in line with his views on most hollywood movies.

I think he watches them, like me, but doesn't lend any credence to their value as perceived art.

They are merely popcorn flicks designed to make money.

[Dan]

It takes a very smart, accomplished man to manage a $250M picture. The fact that more people have seen TDKR than all of Cronenberg's movies combined probably makes his soul burn at night.

If you read the full quote he talks about how he's impressed by the scale, the IMAX shooting, etc. He just doesn't think it adds up to much.

Most of this bullshit story stems from taking bits of his quote out of context and ignoring the fact that he was specifically being asked about directing a big studio superhero movie. There really isn't much to be bothered about.

People really don't need to circle the wagons every time someone says they don't like Nolan's Batman. That's totally adolescent behavior ;)

[thabiz]

It takes a very smart, accomplished man to manage a $250M picture. To throw budget back in Nolan's face is silly. The fact that more people have seen TDKR than all of Cronenberg's movies combined probably makes his soul burn at night.

Please. Money makes you good? I would bet most actors would rather work with Croneberg than Nolan.

And one man doesnt manage a 250M picture. Its a team of thousands. Michael Bay must be the best of all time, cause most of his movies are up that high.

Nolan did his best work when he had full creative control. Not when suits became involved.

[PowderedToast]

nolan hasn't made a good film yet, cronenberg is now also an idiot

what am i doing here

[Tuck]

People need to understand that "for kids" doesn't instantly make something bad. Some of the best shows on air today are for kids (Looking at you Adventure Time, Korra, Tron:Uprising, Gravity Falls).

And also, saying The Dark knight Rises is for kids is fucking stupid.

[thabiz]

nolan hasn't made a good film yet, cronenberg is now also an idiot what am i doing here

back out slowly.

[thabiz]

People need to understand that "for kids" doesn't instantly make something bad. Some of the best shows on air today are for kids (Looking at you Adventure Time, Korra, Tron:Uprising, Gravity Falls). And also, saying The Dark knight Rises is for kids is fucking stupid.

It sure is marketed towards kids.

[polyh3dron]

dude, you just cast r-pats in your latest flick to cash in on his twihard fanbase, get off your high horse for fuck's sake

[Charles Foster Kane]

It sure is marketed towards kids.

In what way? I really wouldn`t think so.

[Nerfgun]

oh shut up Cronenberg. ExistenZ was juvenile as hell.

also Crash (his Crash, not the Haggis one) was pretty much unwatchable drek.

not a fan of his latest work.

I liked Videodrome back in the day.

[thabiz]

dude, you just cast r-pats in your latest flick to cash in on his twihard fanbase, get off your high horse for fuck's sake

Or he was the best one that auditioned. Or he saw something in him that was right for the role.

I'm sure a Rated R film is directly aimed at twihards. You get off your high horse for fuck sake.

If you paid any attention to what has been said about the movie, you would know that he is trying to shed that audience, by doing more mature, thoughtful movies.

[Stet]

hes was born in 43. I think it speaks directly to his character as a film maker. He's an auteur. He doesnt make hollywood movies. So, yes i think his quote is directly in line with his views on most hollywood movies. I think he watches them, like me, but doesn't lend any credence to their value as perceived art. They are merely popcorn flicks designed to make money.

I'm well aware of when he was born, but my point stands. He is not your typical geriatric. And no, he doesn't make Hollywood movies -- he lives in Toronto. He makes Canadian movies. I'm not sure what you mean by "Hollywood" anyway, because several of his most recent movies starred Hollywood actors and had actual budgets.

And yet none of that has anything to do with his perception of comic books as a medium.

[Quackula]

a movie can be really good without having to be 'high art'. I wouldn't call Raiders of the Lost Ark or Back to the Future 'high art', but I still love those movies to death.

art doesn't sound like a word anymore

[thabiz]

In what way? I really wouldn`t think so.

The toys. The happy meals. Shall i go on.

Its a 250mill picture. Its squarely aimed at the 10-18 audience. Like all of them in that budget range.

[Tuck]

The toys. The happy meals. Shall i go on. Its a 250mill picture. Its squarely aimed at the 10-18 audience. Like all of them in that budget range.

I would argue that it is equally marketed towards the young adult market (18-24)

Kids are going to see it but its clear the movie has appeal for a very large age demographic. Even my parents want to see it.

[overcast]

TDKR is way better than A Dangerous Method, regardless of it being "art" or not. Cosmopolis looks like it's mediocre too, for now focus on your movies David..

Croenberg has made some plenty of great films, not saying anything too crazy.

[Bert409]

I don't think "art" necessarily has to be for adults, but the Nolan films do give off a certain blockbuster vibe that's unshakable. If anything I'd say The Animated Series/Mask of the Phantasm probably qualifies more as high art.

[PowderedToast]

a movie can be really good without having to be 'high art'. I wouldn't call Raiders of the Lost Ark or Back to the Future 'high art', but I still love those movies to death. art doesn't sound like a word anymore

they are art in the sense that art equates to personal expression, and it'd be silly to claim either of those films do not contain that.

high-art would insinuate that there's a higher level of sophistication and meaning in the craft, etc, so i'm confused by how they're being deployed as though they're interchangeable.

[thabiz]

I'm well aware of when he was born, but my point stands. He is not your typical geriatric. And no, he doesn't make Hollywood movies -- he lives in Toronto. He makes Canadian movies. I'm not sure what you mean by "Hollywood" anyway, because several of his most recent movies starred Hollywood actors and had actual budgets. And yet none of that has anything to do with his perception of comic books as a medium.

Cool, we live in the same city. I didn't know that. Tell me more about my local artists.

"Hollywood". a major studio picture designed to make lots of money. Big budget. Your LoTR, Batman's and Transformer's of the world.

To further complicate things. I have meet him several times. Most of my friends and family work in the industry. And yes, he is quite set in his views on how a film should be perceived. Its why he does the types of movies that he does. He has been offered more money than you could possible imagine to director "Hollywood" films.

Existenz was above 30 mil i believe. His largest budget i think. And he hated it. Thats why he hasn't done a studio picture since.

[Quackula]

they are art in the sense that art equates to personal expression, and it'd be silly to claim either of those films do not contain that. high-art would insinuate that there's a higher level of sophistication and meaning in the craft, etc, so i'm confused by how they're being deployed as though they're interchangeable.

Well yeah... that's pretty much what I'm saying?

[BocoDragon]

I'm inclined to disagree with him, only because I too used to think superheroes were tripe, but film of the 2000s were incredibly kind to them and really changed my perspective on them (particularly Nolan Batman, of course).

Also.. Even if it is fluff, the days of only kids enjoying fluff are long over.

[PowderedToast]

there wasn't a specific reason i picked your post to reply to, but due to there being no distinction made here for what 'art' actually is it seems quite pointless to discuss without providing one.

[Cipherr]

Slightly "less than half as interesting as Memento" sounds about right.

Yeah but most stuff is.

[Charles Foster Kane]

The toys. The happy meals. Shall i go on. Its a 250mill picture. Its squarely aimed at the 10-18 audience. Like all of them in that budget range.

Ok. I don`t go to or live anywhere near a McDonalds (or popular North American fast food joints) so I didn`t know about that. I thought you meant in advertisements or commercials.

[BocoDragon]

Ill also add: not to sling mud... But Cronenburg's films could often be boiled down to "genre schlock" in a similar way. They're horror or bizzare fantasy.... (I mean.. Alien parasites? Magic videotapes? Reality bending video games?) But of course he brings some real artistry and emotion to the material. But someone could just as well do that with superheroes as well.

[Leeroy3101]

"A superhero movie, by definition, you know, it's comic book. It's for kids. It's adolescent in its core."

Comics are for kids? I'm sure Bill Watterson, Charles Schultz, and Bill Amend would argue your point.

Are films like Memento and 2001: A Space Odyssey more "artsy" then TDKR? Of course those films are. The aforementioned films are much better as well. But this isn't to a a "comic book film", I hate the stigma behind that title, can't be artsy, mature, or critically acclaimed. Get off your high horse, Cronenberg.

[SquirrelNuckle]

He's right. TDKR was super boring and dragged on forever. Could of been 30 minutes shorter.

[Uncle Rupee]

I'm glad he had the balls to say it, because it's true. All the Batman fanboys will cry foul but it's not like Nolan's films are anything special. The Crow (the first one) now that was something dark and special for its day for a comic adaptation.

[Big-E]

I don't know why people are getting so mad at the child comment. When were you first exposed to Batman and the other superheros? I doubt it was in your early 20s.

[thabiz]

Ok. I don`t go to or live anywhere near a McDonalds (or popular North American fast food joints) so I didn`t know about that. I thought you meant in advertisements or commercials.

Once the budget gets that big, you have to aim it kids. They spend the most money at the theater's. I don't mean they literately spend they money(parents money), but that's your target audience.

[BocoDragon]

I don't know why people are getting so mad at the child comment. When were you first exposed to Batman and the other superheros? I doubt it was in your early 20s.

True.

But personally I thought Batman was ridiculous as a kid. I came to respect him in my late 20s :P

[Slayven]

I am not a fan of the Nolan films or Batman in general. But dude is salty as hell.

[Eurocult]

Batman is fun to watch but Cronenberg is and has always been a master of his craft no matter what the budget.

[Stet]

To further complicate things. I have meet him several times. Most of my friends and family work in the industry. And yes, he is quite set in his views on how a film should be perceived. Its why he does the types of movies that he does. He has been offered more money than you could possible imagine to director "Hollywood" films.

Please don't tout your family's relationship with the Cronenbergs to me. You could have dated his daughter for 2 years and I'd still think your opinions (and the one stated in the interview) on comic books are wrong. It has no bearing on the conversation. Nor does continuing to talk about his movies when I'm talking about his opinions of a written medium.

[Big-E]

True. But personally I thought Batman was ridiculous as a kid. I came to respect him in my late 20s :P

There is nothing wrong with liking comics as an adult but to deny that they have elements marketed to children is kind of stupid.

[Volimar]

Looks like this to me.

Pay attention to me!

[Quackula]

Once the budget gets that big, you have to aim it kids. They spend the most money at the theater's. I don't mean they literately spend they money(parents money), but that's your target audience.

When I saw TDKR at the theater, there was a total of maybe two kids in the whole audience.

Theater was pretty packed too.

If kids are its main target audience, it's done a pretty crappy job of reaching out to them.

[jamesgriggs]

"Memento" is definitely my favorite Nolan film.

[Count Dookkake]

Looks like this to me.

To be fair, it's difficult for some to pay attention with all the tears.

[JB1981]

Prefer Nolan's movies to yours actually.

[cloud_sleep]

Superhero movies are essentially for kids / man-childs. They, like Bond films, are adolescent power fantasies featuring heroes with idealised, unrealistic skills and the shiniest toys in the playground. Nothing wrong with that, I enjoy them myself, but they are pretty shallow. They are certainly entertaining, when done well, but ultimately only that. They are a diversion. More interesting art tends, I would argue, to speak to a deeper - dare I say more mature - part of the human psyche than the part that wants to be the best at fighting and impressing the other kids.

[rCIZZLE]

Jelly seeping through his veins.

Pretty much. All Nolan does is produce quality films. I'd put him just behind QT at the top of their craft. If this Cronenberg character died right now my movie going experience would be unchanged.