[SonicMegaDrive]

Super Mario World is a fine game. It oozes creativity and it offers some amazing gameplay.

That being said, I do prefer Super Mario Bros. 3 to it overall. But it isn't by a significant margin.

[RagnarokX]

Not sure if you're trolling or not. A new Mario game in the vain of SMW is all I've been asking for. The sheer amount of secrets and different ways you could attack a level is something SEVERELY missing in New SMB. The most enjoyment I've gotten from the NEW series, was the launch party at Nintendo World, and the homebrew hacks that gave awesome difficultly level stages, and at least tried to switch it up a bit. I just want multiple paths, more varied worlds than have been shown thus far like SMW brought to the table, an awesome overworld map (something I've HATED in new SMB - just doesn't have the same charm) and SECRETS. I'm scared New SMB U will just be more of the same with the trimmings of the Miiverse and I just can't handle that. I want the next evolution in 2D Mario, after what is probably my favorite platformer, SMW2:YI.

Not trolling at all. SMB3 has always felt like a more complete game. SMW feels shorter for some reason in comparison (probably the lack of variety). The cape also broke the hell out of the game. Also, for wanting more world variety, SMW has like the least variety in the series beyond SMB1. SMB3 definitely had more variety, and NSMB games follow that style of level theming (Could use some new themes, though). NSMB games have hidden exits too, with alternate paths that let you skip levels.

[Chris1964]

In the works for Wii U or 3DS somewhere? Is it even being talked about? What do you think?

The closest thing you'll get this generation is NSMB U.

[Crewnh]

Man, if there was an actual overworld that was connected like that, and you could scroll around everywhere to see where you would be going next, and you could find crazy secrets and exits that could alter the world...

Goddamn world was so good. Mario was like a super hero with that badass cape and riding on a blue yoshi with wings.

[Kamek]

Not trolling at all. SMB3 has always felt like a more complete game. SMW feels shorter for some reason in comparison (probably the lack of variety). The cape also broke the hell out of the game. Also, for wanting more world variety, SMW has like the least variety in the series beyond SMB1. SMB3 definitely had more variety, and NSMB games follow that style of level theming (Could use some new themes, though). NSMB games have hidden exits too, with alternate paths that let you skip levels.

I respect you putting 3 above World, but I just don't know how you could put New SMB Wii above 3, and call it the best 2D Mario. I know the New games have hidden exits, and I guess this is a matter of opinion, but they just didn't seem as well placed, or seem to lead to anything too special. A lot of it has to do with world map layout. In World, I felt like finding a secret exit would lead somewhere awesome and I wasn't sure where or how the map would unfold. In NEW, everything just seems right there out in the open. The only world map surprise seemed to be in the snow world.

The argument that World has some of the least variety in the series is weird to me. I thought there was a lot of variety.

[Kokonoe]

Blue Yoshi is best Yoshi. In Super Mario World at least.

Super Mario World has plenty of variety, however I'm not going to get into a huge discussion over one vs the other, I will say I preferred these things over Super Mario Bros. 3.

Physics/Engine
Style
Music
Secrets
Difficulty

[Takao]

Every Mario game incorporates parts of every other Mario game. I think the Koopaling boss fights return too. But it's good that they haven't made NSMW because SMW is the worst 2D Mario.

NOPE

[cartman414]

I respect you putting 3 above World, but I just don't know how you could put New SMB Wii above 3, and call it the best 2D Mario. I know the New games have hidden exits, and I guess this is a matter of opinion, but they just didn't seem as well placed, or seem to lead to anything too special. A lot of it has to do with world map layout. In World, I felt like finding a secret exit would lead somewhere awesome and I wasn't sure where or how the map would unfold. In NEW, everything just seems right there out in the open. The only world map surprise seemed to be in the snow world. The argument that World has some of the least variety in the series is weird to me. I thought there was a lot of variety.

Just not as much as 3.

More importantly to me, 3 had more intense platforming.

[SonicMegaDrive]

Just not as much as 3. More importantly to me, 3 had more intense platforming.

Yeah. I think the focus of the games are slightly different. Where Mario 3 seemed to be an action platformer with some exploration elements, Mario World seemed to be an exploration platformer with some action elements. Or something. You can articulate it better I'm sure, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

[Kamek]

My argument wasn't about World over 3 or 3 over World - it was trying to understand why he called NEW SMB Wii the best 2D platformer.

[RagnarokX]

My argument wasn't about World over 3 or 3 over World - it was trying to understand why he called NEW SMB Wii the best 2D platformer.

Because it combines SMB3's level design with elements of SMW, like Yoshi, to create a superior experience. Not a lot superior to 3, maybe only equal to it, but it's definitely the most fun 2D Mario I've played since SMB3.

[EightBitNate]

Here's a dandy idea:

Why does every new Mario game have to be based off a previous one? Why not just make an original game?

[GimMick]

I respect you putting 3 above World, but I just don't know how you could put New SMB Wii above 3, and call it the best 2D Mario. I know the New games have hidden exits, and I guess this is a matter of opinion, but they just didn't seem as well placed, or seem to lead to anything too special. A lot of it has to do with world map layout. In World, I felt like finding a secret exit would lead somewhere awesome and I wasn't sure where or how the map would unfold. In NEW, everything just seems right there out in the open. The only world map surprise seemed to be in the snow world. The argument that World has some of the least variety in the series is weird to me. I thought there was a lot of variety.

I'm into the game right now (snow world actually), and I pretty much agree. I can fairly easily predict which leveles have secrets are where they will lead me. Nowhere as obvious on SMW however. That part of mystery in one of my favorite aspects in SMW.
However NSMBW does have some really interesting and well designed levels and provide some form of challenge even early on, definitely in the top 3 for Mario 2D games. I would need to replay SMB3 and SMW to do a proper ranking though, if even possible.

Blue Yoshi is best Yoshi. In Super Mario World at least. Super Mario World has plenty of variety, however I'm not going to get into a huge discussion over one vs the other, I will say I preferred these things over Super Mario Bros. 3. Physics/Engine Style Music Secrets Difficulty

Agreed on everything except maybe the difficulty. I remember SMB3 had some challenging levels. Then again I've never fully completed SMW so can't give a fair comparison.

Here's a dandy idea: Why does every new Mario game have to be based off a previous one? Why not just make an original game?

While I'm excited for NSMBU because it should be the closest thing to a spiritual sequel of SMW, I'm still waiting for THE game that will blow away all the existing 2D Mario.
It won't really happen until Nintendo introduce some things completely NEW in the gameplay though, like they did for the first Mario games. Are they capable of that ? I believe so... if they actually put all the effort and time in it... maybe never :'(

[AdventureRacing]

Agreed on everything except maybe the difficulty. I remember SMB3 had some challenging levels. Then again I've never fully completed SMW so can't give a fair comparison.

SMB3 was far more difficult than SMW imo.

Yeah. I think the focus of the games are slightly different. Where Mario 3 seemed to be an action platformer with some exploration elements, Mario World seemed to be an exploration platformer with some action elements. Or something. You can articulate it better I'm sure, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

I think this description is pretty spot on.

My argument wasn't about World over 3 or 3 over World - it was trying to understand why he called NEW SMB Wii the best 2D platformer.

Well one thing that NSMBwii has is co-op. I still don't consider anywhere near as good as world or 3 but that is one thing it has that the others don't.

While I'm excited for NSMBU because it should be the closest thing to a spiritual sequel of SMW, I'm still waiting for THE game that will blow away all the existing 2D Mario. It won't really happen until Nintendo introduce some things completely NEW in the gameplay though, like they did for the first Mario games. Are they capable of that ? I believe so... if they actually put all the effort and time in it... maybe never :'(

If they're willing to put all that effort into really changing up 3D mario (3D land and SMG) surely they will eventually do something similar with the 2D games. There will now be 4 NSMB games on the market i think soon they will have to start looking at making some more variety (maybe switch up either the handheld or console version whilst keeping the other similar).

[Negator]

Every Mario game incorporates parts of every other Mario game. I think the Koopaling boss fights return too. But it's good that they haven't made NSMW because SMW is the worst 2D Mario.

What the fuck?

[Salvadora]

Where is Kuribo's Boot? Where is it Nintendo?

[dygiT]

I think I'm going to go enjoy Super Mario World thanks to this thread.

I really like SMW and it's my favourite 2D Mario but there will never be a NSMW. Thanks.

[zoukka]

Super Mario World with the likes of Super Metroid and Resident Evil 4, are games that happen when all the stars align and the team is something magical. They are works that cannot be reproduced, only imitated to certain lengths.

It's pointless to hope that they'll return in any form.

[Forkball]

Isn't NSMB Wii U supposed to be heavily inspired by Super Mario World?

SMW is my favorite Mario game and one of my favorite games ever. I always found it a bit odd how they never used a whole lot of assets from it in other titles (minus Yoshi). There were so many unique enemies, power ups, and locals that should have stuck around.

[storafötter]

Uh New Super Mario Bros Wii bored me 3 worlds in. It is in no way superior to World but it is not a terrible game either. It is decent but a disappointment compared to the old games..
I agree that SMB3 is the best Mario game, but I wish that they could make a game similar to 3 but with alternative paths like SMW.

[ffdgh]

Where is Kuribo's Boot? Where is it Nintendo?

goombas got sick of wearing goomba's shoe lol

3D land would have been a nice place to use it again.

[Nocturnowl]

I thought I knew ViewtifulJC but he's gone mad, but don't worry, I can save you...

Super Mario World sucks, I'm sorry guys

Well you know that's not true.

Yoshi's Island takes a large shit on SMW's ugly, dull face

And then we ask Yoshi's Island for compelling platforming and it all goes down the pan, face it pal, Yoshi's Island is The N64 Rare Collectathon of Mario Platformers, less skill based jumping and more filling your pockets with trinkets while blinded by visual splendour.
Oh yeah now we're trolling, hey the reason you people all hate Yoshi's Island DS is because it reveals this truth to you all, with inferior music and a DK64 style aspect of baby switching it really punches this point home.

Does nobody complain about the shitty landing in SMW compared to the SMB trilogy? It's like you're landing on ice after every jump.

We can handle it because we're all Super Players, the game told me this itself.

I'm not saying SMW the worst I'm just saying it's not a very good video game.

You stink of Reznor poop.


Now as for this thread, essentially NSMBU looks to be NSMW.
But after finishing up NSMB2 myself i'm really in the mood for a completely different type of 2D Mario game.

[Tenki]

Super Mario World is the best platformer ever (and my favorite game too :P).

I'm very, very hyped about NSMBU (unlike for NSMB2, but I'll play and enjoy it anyways). In fact, I think the main reason I'm buying a Wii U for is that game.

I know it's almost impossible to top or even reach SMW (and SMB3), but I hope NSMBU can get close and be a superb game.

[daakusedo]

Nsmbu using a progressive world map is cool and all but would be smart to keep a zone selection like other nsmb games.

[Dr.Hadji]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1yYCh-_fv0 I hope they fix their engine before remaking it.

Wow what kind of joke is this? A heads up, the test in the video, SMB would fail it as well. The message of this story? Mario games play differently. Wow surprise.

Oh and put me down for NSMBWii better than World. I like the chaos of multiplayer platforming over world secrets and neato themes.

[SpacePirate Ridley]

In the works for Wii U or 3DS somewhere? Is it even being talked about? What do you think?

Its the WiiU game (the background scenery, even though its not dinosaur island and that would have been the good thing to do as it would change completly the scenery and enemies, open maps, baby yoshis, and new squirrel suit that is similar to the cape but not as cool) but they still use to much tributes yet again to SMB3.
Just fucking stop with the SMB3 tributes Nintendo, for gods sake!

And I suppose they will not tribute its amazing soundtrack in NSMBU so fuck them and fuck its wah wah music also.

[MisterLuffy]

Every Mario game incorporates parts of every other Mario game. I think the Koopaling boss fights return too. But it's good that they haven't made NSMW because SMW is the worst 2D Mario.

[Zeer0id]

Nsmbu using a progressive world map is cool and all but would be smart to keep a zone selection like other nsmb games.

If they bring back some variation on Star World for fast travel... oh my god

[H_Prestige]

I think that the "New Super Mario" bit needs to go. How about a brand new 2D Mario game that seeks to be something new rather than a revisit of something old? Super Mario allowed us to traverse a brick-filled no mans land, dodging a madman in the clouds throwing spiky enemies in our path. Super Mario 2 allowed us to climb up endless waterfalls and ride on eggs that shot over canyons, then pull rockets out of plants to enter the mouth of a giant bird. Super Mario 3 allowed us to fly, then turn into a stone statue and plummet into the sea, to kill a cheep-cheep from above like a plumber-shaped asteroid. Super Mario World allowed us to take a baby dinosaur through a road of stars, feeding him to maturity, then conquer hidden worlds in order to invade a parallel universe where everyone dresses like Mario. Super Mario World 2 allowed us to turn into a helicopter and fly across a chasm, dodging skeleton birds while an elderly wizard tries to ram us out of the skies, in order to get to the messy bedroom of a future tyrant. The next 2D Mario needs to be something entirely, insanely, magnificently mad and unpredictable, and introduce new mechanics that will shake the platform genre to its core with originality and sheer eclectic energy. "New Super Mario" doesn't do that.

Wait, what? Did I miss something?

[Nocturnowl]

Wait, what? Did I miss something?

Beating the Special world changes the world map into different colours and has enemies take on new forms. Bullet Bill becomes a pidgit bill, the leapin piranha plants become pumpkin things and more importantly to your query the Koopas become masked Koopas that have Mario Masks.

[H_Prestige]

Beating the Special world changes the world map into different colours and has enemies take on new forms. Bullet Bill becomes a pidgit bill, the leapin piranha plants become pumpkin things and more importantly to your query the Koopas become masked Koopas that have Mario Masks.

Holy fuck.

See this is why SMW murders all these NSMB games. Does anyone think 10 years from now people will still be finding out new things about those games?

[Holy Wars]

Apart from some ignorant revisionist history on a lame NOA website (for, what was it, SM3DLand?), all reasonable evidence suggests it's a Mario platformer, a prequel at that. - Miyamoto/Kondo - title says Super Mario (World 2) - you control Yoshi just like in SMW (but need a star-man to survive as Mario solo) - inspired but is not necessarily a part of a new series starring Yoshi (like Super Mario Land inspired a Wario series) - unlike the other Yoshi games, SMW2:YI is ABOUT Mario, and the rescue of Luigi - Has 6 main worlds like NSMB1+2.

None of those reasons make up for the fact you don't play as Mario and the game plays nothing like a Mario game.

It's got Mario in the title as a marketing gimmick. Nobody thinks Wario Land is a Mario game even though it has Mario Land in the title.

[Grampasso]

Every Mario game incorporates parts of every other Mario game. I think the Koopaling boss fights return too. But it's good that they haven't made NSMW because SMW is the worst 2D Mario.

Oh no you didn't!

[Seik]

Every Mario game incorporates parts of every other Mario game. I think the Koopaling boss fights return too. But it's good that they haven't made NSMW because SMW is the worst 2D Mario.

Oh my, he actually said it!

For the record, how many Mario games have you played in your life son?

Oh and this! XD

[BowieZ]

None of those reasons make up for the fact you don't play as Mario and the game plays nothing like a Mario game. It's got Mario in the title as a marketing gimmick. Nobody thinks Wario Land is a Mario game even though it has Mario Land in the title.

SML3:WL is simply not a MARIO game though. You don't play as Mario (with or without the Yoshi powerup), nor is it ABOUT Mario.

SMW2:YI uniquely ticks all the Mario platformer boxes, but nonetheless ticks them all.

[Holy Wars]

SML3:WL is simply not a MARIO game though. You don't play as Mario (with or without the Yoshi powerup), nor is it ABOUT Mario. SMW2:YI uniquely ticks all the Mario platformer boxes, but nonetheless ticks them all.

Dude. You don't play as Mario. The pacing is nothing like Mario. It's far more focused on collectathons than any Mario game before it. Nothing about it is like a Mario game.

[zigg]

See this is why SMW murders all these NSMB games. Does anyone think 10 years from now people will still be finding out new things about those games?

Let's review the environment a moment before proclaiming superiority based on this criterion.

When SMW came out, we had print magazines and schoolyard chatter to rely on.

Today, every secret is laid bare on the Internet in video form before the games have even left Japan.

On top of all that, this particular secret has been well-known for many, many years. I'm pretty sure I read about it myself in a magazine or player's guide when I was a kid not too far from SMW's own release date.

[b3b0p]

Not trolling at all. SMB3 has always felt like a more complete game. SMW feels shorter for some reason in comparison (probably the lack of variety). The cape also broke the hell out of the game. Also, for wanting more world variety, SMW has like the least variety in the series beyond SMB1. SMB3 definitely had more variety, and NSMB games follow that style of level theming (Could use some new themes, though). NSMB games have hidden exits too, with alternate paths that let you skip levels.

Super Mario World felt more complete to me, but much too easy. For that reason, I pick Super Mario Bros. 3 as being the superior. It's much more of a challenge to complete every level. Super Mario World was cool and fun, anybody could pick up and play and come back later. Super Mario Bros. 3 took tons more skill and persistence and patience.

Also, Super Mario Bros. 3 had The Wizard. How many video games get a decent movie? Yes, I liked it.

P.S. There are only 5 main Mario games. Everything else is an offshoot: Mario, Mario 2, Mario 3, World, Mario 64

[GimMick]

Dude. You don't play as Mario. The pacing is nothing like Mario. It's far more focused on collectathons than any Mario game before it. Nothing about it is like a Mario game.

Amen to that (the "nothing" is hyperbolic, but the idea is there). As far as I'm concerned the Yoshi games are their own platformers series.

Talking about that, it is time we get a proper 3D Yoshi game (SM64DS doesn't really count !).
A childhood dream that will probably be never fulfilled...

[GreggTheGrimReaper]

That world map, that music, the whole atmosphere... everything about SMW is just iconic. They know they will probably never be able to beat that so they don't even try.

[Roto13]

I could imagine someone thinking it was a lesser Mario game or something....but sucks? Out of curiosity which ones do you like?

I've learned that GAF is full of people with a very narrow window of reference for what is good or bad. People who have only played games with an 85+ average on Metacritic, so an 85 is bad and a 92 is ok and 100 is pretty good.

[Holy Wars]

Amen to that (the "nothing" is hyperbolic, but the idea is there). As far as I'm concerned the Yoshi games are their own platformers series. Talking about that, it is time we get a proper 3D Yoshi game (SM64DS doesn't really count !). A childhood dream that will probably be never fulfilled...

It's like Mario in that you jump. and walk from left to right (mostly). But other than that? The way you take damage, die, kill enemies, it's all too different from Mario to be part of the same series. It's mechanically completely different outside of basic platforming conventions.

[ViewtifulJC]

And then we ask Yoshi's Island for compelling platforming and it all goes down the pan, face it pal, Yoshi's Island is The N64 Rare Collectathon of Mario Platformers, less skill based jumping and more filling your pockets with trinkets while blinded by visual splendour. Oh yeah now we're trolling, hey the reason you people all hate Yoshi's Island DS is because it reveals this truth to you all, with inferior music and a DK64 style aspect of baby switching it really punches this point home.

I pray you're not looking to SMW for compelling platforming, because you won't find any in that big, empty wasteland of fun. It's art style is ugly, the cape is broken, the controls are like landing on ice, the level design and themes outside Star Road is bland and cookie cutter, there's maybe TWO good songs in the entire game, and the over indulgent focus on hidden exits puts too big of a focus on swooping above the levels and exploring over actually platforming in a platformer, leaving the levels to be too large and vertical to compensate. It's like taking a tiny thing of jelly and spreading it across the entire loaf.

[Blissful]

But it's good that they haven't made NSMW because SMW is the worst 2D Mario.

[Nocturnowl]

I pray you're not looking to SMW for compelling platforming, because you won't find any in that big, empty wasteland of fun. It's art style is ugly, the cape is broken, the controls are like landing on ice, the level design and themes outside Star Road is bland and cookie cutter, there's maybe TWO good songs in the entire game, and the over indulgent focus on hidden exits puts too big of a focus on swooping above the levels and exploring over actually platforming in a platformer, leaving the levels to be too large and vertical to compensate. It's like taking a tiny thing of jelly and spreading it across the entire loaf.

So are you going to tell me that chocolate island was really just a brown version of the standard stages and that the molten chocolate of death was merely recoloured lava? Oh JC you crazy man, even if your points come across as mostly valid I can't help but think the tiny thing of jelly is damn delicious regardless.
I wouldn't say it was as empty as you make it out to be though. If you're two good song options aren't the castle and athletic themes then there is no pleasing you.

[ViewtifulJC]

They are indeed the castle and athletic themes. The castle in particular is one of my all-time Mario favorites. If I had it my way, every 2d Mario would have a remix of it for their castle levels(or at least the tower ones). Although the Wii one isn't half bad either. It's fun what they can do when they don't insert BAH BAH into everything.

[Nocturnowl]

The Wii castle theme basically was an altered version of the SMW castle, or it was at least similar enough, on a side note they totally added "BAH" to it in NSMB2.
Anyway you have chosen wisely. SMW sticks too much to its main theme so to speak, reused in caves and water as well, though the water version is grand stuff.
Never liked the main theme of SMB3 that much though, Athletic theme on the other hand, now that was good stuff.

[Katzii]

My brain boggles that people could dislike Super Mario World. I grew up on the Sega side of things but SMW is sublime to me... Even more so than SMB3 which I do love.

[Kamek]

The Wii castle theme basically was an altered version of the SMW castle, or it was at least similar enough, on a side note they totally added "BAH" to it in NSMB2. Anyway you have chosen wisely. SMW sticks too much to its main theme so to speak, reused in caves and water as well, though the water version is grand stuff. Never liked the main theme of SMB3 that much though, Athletic theme on the other hand, now that was good stuff.

The next new 2D Mario, and by new I don't mean the "NEW" series, but actually new - needs to have more ragtime compositions.

Also reading some above posts, I find it really weird that some people don't consider YI a Mario game, and some even dislike it?

[Crewnh]

SMB3 is for people who want to dress up in dumb costumes.
SMW is for people who want to travel an epic land, braving hardships while wearing a snazzy cape.