[Dennis]

When of the main issues with Fallout 3 and New Vegas both was the outdated graphics even at launch.

Now if one guys mods can do this with New Vegas then Bethesda has no excuse for not putting some more effort.

[Derrick01]

Polish up a turd and its still a turd. Not gonna give credit to something thats bad because it actually runs well for once. Make a good game that runs well.

Keep moving those goalposts. I'm interested in seeing where they go after south park comes out.

I wonder if those who hate Bethesda's writing have completed The Pitt and Point Lookout.

What was so special about those from a writing standpoint? It was typical Bethesda stuff.

[ciridesu]

I find NV to be very overrated. The world was an incohesive mess full of stories that originated from old ideas that were then squeezed to a game universe provided. What I was left with was a game full of neat sidestories with excellent writing, and a lifeless world with a poorly themed story arch. Classical case of 'sidestuff first, main universe and theme second'

Now mind, I don't think F3 is superior, I think that too suffered of some great flaws and I hold them to a similar quality, but I just couldn't help but be a bit disappointed by NV. Still a good game though and much better than most stuff out on the market. I just felt there was AGAIN something Obsidian could've done better. Admittedly their time schedules are shit

[Patryn]

I find NV to be very overrated. The world was an incohesive mess full of stories that originated from old ideas that were then squeezed to a game universe provided. What I was left with was a game full of neat sidestories with excellent writing, and a lifeless world with a poorly themed story arch. Classical case of 'sidestuff first, main universe and theme second' Now mind, I don't think F3 is superior, I think that too suffered of some great flaws and I hold them to a similar quality, but I just couldn't help but be a bit disappointed by NV. Still a good game though and I enjoyed my time with it

How were the ideas in NV incohesive?

That's one point that I think Em Cee is right on about: The ideas in FO3 are far more incohesive than those in NV.

[Ridley327]

Polish up a turd and its still a turd. Not gonna give credit to something thats bad because it actually runs well for once. Make a good game that runs well.

But the entire statement was entirely about the engine in the first place. There are tons and tons of bad games out there that I can still praise the tech that powers it because GASP it's worth pointing out.

[Kade]

What I was left with was a game full of neat sidestories with excellent writing, and a lifeless world with a poorly themed story arch. Classical case of 'sidestuff first, main universe and theme second'

This is exactly what Fallout 3 is.

[Hindle]

I wouldn't mind a setting thats totally different then whats been done so far, maybe a Lousianna or a San Francisco.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

I tried to go back to Fallout 3 this summer, after having played New Vegas, and I just couldn't do it. Not that Fallout 3 was bad (it was my favorite game of 08), it just felt lacking. While I wish Obsidian would do Fallout 4, I'll still get it day one and hope for the best.

[BlueTsunami]

The coast of Massachusetts would be pretty great, I just hope it isn't too similar to the environment in Fallout 3.

[EmCeeGramr]

Nearly everything in NV related to the ideas of being burdened with the past (in the form of a personal past, or a cultural heritage, or a group tradition), and how to move on into the future, what you'll pass on. It also heavily played with the idea of how much a single person could influence this; from changing a single person's life, to influencing an entire nation. Even the DLC is consistent with this.

[Schobeleth]

SO HOPE THIS IS TRUE. Fallout needs to come back to the east coast, so tired of the boring deserts in the west. I think it was also how NV didn't compare to 3 in terms of how much is explorable. Time will tell though.

[Kurtofan]

I personally preferred the magical silven faerie glen, or the town of little children.

don't forget the two supervillains lol

[Lancehead]

I find NV to be very overrated. The world was an incohesive mess full of stories that originated from old ideas that were then squeezed to a game universe provided. What I was left with was a game full of neat sidestories with excellent writing, and a lifeless world with a poorly themed story arch. Classical case of 'sidestuff first, main universe and theme second' Now mind, I don't think F3 is superior, I think that too suffered of some great flaws and I hold them to a similar quality, but I just couldn't help but be a bit disappointed by NV. Still a good game though and much better than most stuff out on the market. I just felt there was AGAIN something Obsidian could've done better. Admittedly their time schedules are shit

Old ideas from where? Have you played Fallout1&2? New Vegas feels is right at home in the Fallout universe. And how is it incohesive?

[Cornbread78]

it would wicked awesome if true and a wicked pissah if not...

[Mr.Wreckless]

Keep moving those goalposts. I'm interested in seeing where they go after south park comes out.

Hopefully they will finally be able to pull everything together because right now it seems they either take someones good game and make it unplayable upon release or make their own game that will run but its bad.

Maybe a game thats restricted to a 2D plane with a story element people are already interested in will help alleviate these problems.

[BigDes]

Gonna be massively contraversial here

I liked both modern Fallout games

I also felt that both games had different strengths and weaknesses

[subversus]

What was so special about those from a writing standpoint? It was typical Bethesda stuff.

lol, that is bullshit

I think you haven't finished them.

[BlueTsunami]

Would be hilarious if they develop a cult of post-apocalyptic witches in a New Salem'ish like setting

[Derrick01]

lol, that is bullshit I think you haven't finished them.

I finished all of the DLC on 360 and then on Steam when I got the goty on a steam sale. I'm asking what was so special about those from a writing perspective? There was nothing radically different from normal Bethesda quest writing in those.

[Kade]

don't forget the two supervillains lol

Holy shit I forgot about those dudes. What the fuck was Bethesda thinking?

[Lionheart1337]

Bethesda is making it. *sigh*

[_Keiichi_]

I find NV to be very overrated. The world was an incohesive mess full of stories that originated from old ideas that were then squeezed to a game universe provided. What I was left with was a game full of neat sidestories with excellent writing, and a lifeless world with a poorly themed story arch. Classical case of 'sidestuff first, main universe and theme second' Now mind, I don't think F3 is superior, I think that too suffered of some great flaws and I hold them to a similar quality, but I just couldn't help but be a bit disappointed by NV. Still a good game though and much better than most stuff out on the market. I just felt there was AGAIN something Obsidian could've done better. Admittedly their time schedules are shit

How is the game world lifeless? EVERYTHING you do has a certain impact on the game world/NPCs. You kill an NPC somewhere? Someone is bound to get angry or will comment on it. You piss off someone powerful? That someone won't help you or give you a quest. You kill a certain member of a faction or hinder their plan? Be prepare to be shoot on sight next time you see them. I could make shitons of example.

NV has one of the best world ever. When someone says "lifeless world" i think of Skyrim or Oblivion.

[Ridley327]

Hopefully they will finally be able to pull everything together because right now it seems they either take someones good game and make it unplayable upon release or make their own game that will run but its bad. Maybe a game thats restricted to a 2D plane with a story element people are already interested in will help alleviate these problems.

How was New Vegas any more unplayable at launch than Oblivion or Fallout 3 were? Those things were absolute piles of crap at release, and those were done by the guys working on their own engine!

[JAY the BIRD]

When of the main issues with Fallout 3 and New Vegas both was the outdated graphics even at launch. Now if one guys mods can do this with New Vegas then Bethesda has no excuse for not putting some more effort.

What mod is that?

I really hope they go with Boston. Those saying it would be too similar probably haven't lived in/visited either city.

[CecilRousso]

Gonna be massively contraversial here I liked both modern Fallout games I also felt that both games had different strengths and weaknesses

I feel the same. Fallout 3 had better enviroments and a greater sense of adventure, New Vegas is the better RPG of them.

I just afraid that Bethesda for some reason, pride or whatever, will refuse to learn from New Vegas, with the recent commercial success* of Skyrim.

* I like Skyrim, played it for 80 hours and want more, but it lacks the good stuff from New Vegas as much as F3 does.

[Hindle]

Bethesda should handle the exploration whilst Obsidian do everything else.

[Patryn]

Holy shit I forgot about those dudes. What the fuck was Bethesda thinking?

They were no doubt influenced by the random encounters in the earlier Fallout games. They just went a little overboard.

[NBtoaster]

They share a lot of mechanics but Obsidian had more crafting skills, better FPS aiming and made skills have a much bigger effect on the world. It was also possible to finish the game without killing anyone as water_wendi proved.

I don't think any of that is worth bland, funneling world design.

I still thought it as a good game but until you get to Vegas and the world opens up it's kinda boring.

[Dennis]

Bethesda is making it. *sigh*

Bethesda makes good games. Not as good as Obsidian but still good games.

Fallout 3 was excellent and so was Skyrim.

People are getting a little carried away by the Hate Train.....

[BigDes]

I finished all of the DLC on 360 and then on Steam when I got the goty on a steam sale. I'm asking what was so special about those from a writing perspective? There was nothing radically different from normal Bethesda quest writing in those.

I dunno

I think you have to admit that the Pitt at least was non standard Bethesda fare in terms of endings

In that there is no good and evil version, only morally black and morally black with slightly less black in the long term

Whether you liked them or whether they achieved what they intended is a different story.

[Dennis]

What mod is that? I really hope they go with Boston. Those saying it would be too similar probably haven't lived in/visited either city.

ENB for New Vegas.

[Patryn]

I don't think any of that is worth bland, funneling world design.

Funneling? I keep seeing people accusing NV of that, but I don't really see it.

For instance, I was at 35 hours and at level 26 before I even set foot in the Strip.

[An-Det]

Boston would be neat, with the Commonwealth and everything in the northeast in general, though I'd like them to put a new spin on things (maybe make it winter time). I'd love to see something like a peaceful and relatively civilized Washington state become ruined after Chinese descendants invade, trying to continue the war, the map getting more and more ruined as the game progresses and war covers it. Basically bring in some of the other perspectives of the Great War but keep in in America.

Gonna be massively contraversial here I liked both modern Fallout games I also felt that both games had different strengths and weaknesses

Dont be silly, you aren't allowed to like both games.

[Hindle]

They should bring back the toaster from Old World Blues, it was hilarious. He had more personality then the whole of the characters from F3 combined.

[The Big Rig]

I lived in (Old) Olney, MD for most of my life, and I was pretty excited to just roam around my hometown (which was not to scale). I'd love to see Bethesda do a Boston-area version, but with more accurate roads and landmarks. I'm not saying to scale, just a better representation of the small communites outside Boston.

[_Keiichi_]

Bethesda makes good games.

Not if you have standards.
Both F3 and Skyrim were mediocre, at best.

[subversus]

I finished all of the DLC on 360 and then on Steam when I got the goty on a steam sale. I'm asking what was so special about those from a writing perspective? There was nothing radically different from normal Bethesda quest writing in those.

they are radically different by having good wrirting, lol

The Pitt had a really nice dillema. Both sides were utterly disgusting but each in its own way.

Point Lookout had fantastic hallucinatory sequence, nice quirky humour and colourful antagonists. Again both were assholes.

Mothership Zeta was bad though...

[Mr.Wreckless]

How was New Vegas any more unplayable at launch than Oblivion or Fallout 3 were? Those things were absolute piles of crap at release, and those were done by the guys working on their own engine!

New Vegas had many more game breaking bugs than Oblivion and Fallout 3. Not simply falling through the world, things where you couldn't progress in the game world at all. It was well documented here when that game was first released. The consensus at the time was to stop playing the game until specific patches were released. The one i remember the most is the cowboy hat bug.

[Dennis]

Not if you have standards. Both F3 and Skyrim were mediocre, at best.

oh boy

[Derrick01]

I don't think any of that is worth bland, funneling world design.

There was nothing more bland and boring and funneling in any Fallout game than the countless and never-ending subways in Fallout 3.

Bethesda makes good games. Not as good as Obsidian but still good games. Fallout 3 was excellent and so was Skyrim. People are getting a little carried away by the Hate Train.....

I'm just disappointed because I know as a RPG it's going to be extremely sub par and probably have more elements stripped away. They do that with each new game they make and they're getting to the point where genre mash up games like Darksiders 2 and Borderlands almost have as much RPG stuff as these games that are being made from supposed RPG developers.

[Schobeleth]

My main gripe with New Vegas is that it feels so damn empty in between the towns or hubs. I felt like 3 had so much more to explore, even before you got to the DC ruins. Then it was mostly subway crawling, but still it felt like there was tons to explore before that. Maybe it's just me, but I just didn't find that much to explore and scavenge in NV.

Overall though, I found the ruins of DC and the surrounding area to be much more interesting than the desert in NV.

[Canis lupus]

Make it Europe, us people outside US are not familiar with Boston.

[Loxley]

I still can't believe there are people who care about series with Bethesda being in charge of it.

Well, considering Fallout 3 was a good game, it shouldn't be that surprising.

I will never, ever, understand GAF's evangelizing of Obsidian. Ever. Criticizing Bethesda I understand, but to turn around and say that - comparatively speaking - Obsidian makes superior products? In what way exactly? Nearly every single one of Obsidian's games has ended being a 70% finished and unpolished product when it's hit shelves (with the exception of maybe Dungeon Siege 3), which is the same criticism many levy against Bethesda in some grand case of oblivious irony.

I agree with the GAF hive-mind on many issues, but the love and admiration for Obsidian...I will never understand it. Their up-coming South Park game may actually bring me over to their side, but as of now they seem to have the exact same problem that Pandemic had before they were shut down; games with cool ideas, but the execution of those cool ideas is never 100%.

[BigDes]

Funneling? I keep seeing people accusing NV of that, but I don't really see it. For instance, I was at 35 hours and at level 26 before I even set foot in the Strip.

When you got to Jean's Skydiving which way did you turn?

Toward Primm or toward the quarry?

I suspect most people went toward Primm. Act 1 of New Vegas was pretty railroady until you got to Novac then it opened out again.

Thats not to say you couldn't go anywhere and do anything you want, but you are strongly persuaded to take a certain route to the Strip

[Patryn]

New Vegas had many more game breaking bugs than Oblivion and Fallout 3. Not simply falling through the world, things where you couldn't progress in the game world at all. It was well documented here when that game was first released. The one i remember the most is the cowboy hat bug.

Fun fact: Bethesda was in charge of bugtesting New Vegas, not Obsidian.

[Haunted]

That's a great atmospheric shot.

[doomed1]

Honestly, Boston probably wouldn't be that great of a city to do this in. By the time this game would take place, The Institute would have already completely transformed a good deal of the Boston area. As cliche as it is, New York City would be an even better place. Still probably well destroyed, there would have been plenty of interesting areas to see and plenty of subways to explore. The potential conflicts would be excellent. There's the remnants of the Enclave, who are too small, weak, and demoralized to afford to be evil, now likely struggling for existence. There's the Brotherhood of Steel East and their likely march north to stomp out the rest of the Enclave, and then there's the mysterious Institute, who will likely be looking to take New York City for themselves to gather the resources still left in the city. Then of course there are just the people living there with minor factions such as The Railroad, all trying to get out from under someone's thumb. Three factions plus being an independent, none of the choices comically evil, all of them with some element of good done.

I mean with Boston, it would just be so cut and dry. The EVIL Institute fighting the GOOD Railroad or somesuch with cameos by the Enclave and BoS and mysteriously un-looted vaults to explore. New York City would just be a much more interesting place, and has TONS of great 50s era jazz and lounge music associated with it. Just imagine playing as there's a flyover of a destroyed Manhattan. It's perfect for Fallout.

[CecilRousso]

Are people talking about the consoles versions of New Vegas when they say that it was unplayable at launch? I bought the PC version day 1, and encountered one crash bug in 50 hours and no freezing.

[tokkun]

Well, one game had actual consistent themes and a morally gray conflict between multiple sides with no easy answer, while the other was Americana Wacky Blood Land where the knights in shining armor fought the monsters and also the bad people who are bad because they're bad and there was a Jesus analogy.

Oh this argument again.

So it is your opinion that Caesar's Legion, which enslaved innocent people, did not allow women to hold any positions of status, promoted leaders based on their willingness to massacre tribes, used tactics such as placing mines around wounded enemy soldiers, and executed an entire town in a lottery system are not "bad people" like the Enclave, but morally gray?

Or maybe I should give give a killer robot army to a despotic asshole, who is clearly insane because he is still obsessed with protecting gambling rather than seemingly expending any effort in rebuilding civilization over the last hundred years even though he has access to tremendous resources and an area virtually untouched by radiation. Meanwhile, pretty much every city in the region is dying off, Vegas itself is a shithole, not to mention that the big casinos themselves are pretty much all run by criminal gangs including one group of cannibals. Damn, it sure is tempting to side with this guy.

Really if you are worried about morality the only decision is whether you give the land to the NCR, which is Jesus + bureaucracy, or take over yourself, which is the cop-out answer.

[Patryn]

When you got to Jean's Skydiving which way did you turn? Toward Primm or toward the quarry? I suspect most people went toward Primm. Act 1 of New Vegas was pretty railroady until you got to Novac then it opened out again. Thats not to say you couldn't go anywhere and do anything you want, but you are strongly persuaded to take a certain route to the Strip

Which is fairly equivalent to FO3 doing Vault -> Megaton. You don't have to go that way, the game just heavily suggests you do so.

Keep in mind Goodsprings is the equivalent of the Vault, as it's the tutorial area. It just happens to be in the world and totally skippable.

Oh this argument again. So it is your opinion that Caesar's Legion, which enslaved innocent people, did not allow women to hold any positions of status, promoted leaders based on their willingness to massacre tribes, used tactics such as placing mines around wounded enemy soldiers, and executed an entire town in a lottery system are not "bad people" like the Enclave, but morally gray? Or maybe I should give give a killer robot army to a despotic asshole, who is clearly insane because he is still obsessed with protecting gambling rather than seemingly expending any effort in rebuilding civilization over the last hundred years even though he has access to tremendous resources and an area virtually untouched by radiation. Meanwhile, pretty much every city in the region is dying off, Vegas itself is a shithole, not to mention that the big casinos themselves are pretty much all run by criminal gangs including one group of cannibals. Damn, it sure is tempting to side with this guy. Really if you are worried about morality the only decision is whether you give the land to the NCR, which is Jesus + bureaucracy, or take over yourself, which is the cop-out answer.

Talk to traders. The Legion keeps their roads safe and have brought a measure of civilization to the area. Traders don't need bodyguards when working in Legion territory. You're seeing the worst of them, as you're in an area being conquered. It's the ends justifying the means.

Compare to the NCR, who can't keep the roads safe and are stretched far too thin. Not to mention their habit of absorbing areas without the consent of the governed, as well as things like the Bitter Springs massacre.

Then you have Mr. House, who spared New Vegas from nuclear holocaust. He's also a genius and who knows how the city could benefit from his guidance?

Not to mention ignoring the independent path.