[DTKT]

It's not so much doubt as it was ridiculous how hard everyone was trying to justify their subjective opinions. If you didn't like it you didn't like it. There didn't need to be all of these ad nauseum arguments (which really just recycled the same salient points over and over again) to try and 'win' some non-argument. My guess was that it was backlash to all the 'entitled' remarks thrown around by irresponsible journalists. Which makes it even more ironic since alot of those same folks generally seem to hold gaming journalists in low regard, so why would they care so much to try and refute them?

Because the industry seems them as "journalists" and "professionals". They should act as such and not just as a PR-recycling machine or an enthusiast-press with blogs.

[Crewnh]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Bioware confessions. http://biowareconfessions.tumblr.com/

What a dumbass. Javik's like the only decent party member in the game.

[Erasus]

I havent played Mass Effect 3 yet even though I played 1 & 2

Afraid I wont remember sutff. So Im outta here

[nel e nel]

His postulated opinion is invalid and unsound, I was trying to explain why he was prone to mistakes when dealing with something he is not familiar with or does not have much knowledge about. Like a biologist expressing invalid opinions about astrophysics.

Disagreeing with an opinion doesn't make it unsound.

[nel e nel]

Because the industry seems them as "journalists" and "professionals". They should act as such and not just as a PR-recycling machine or an enthusiast-press with blogs.

I was under the impression that alot of those folks genuinely liked the ending of the game. Your response is exactly the type of incredulousness that I'm talking about.

[Bisnic]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Bioware confessions. http://biowareconfessions.tumblr.com/

20$? Where the fuck do you have to pay 20$ for Javik?

[DTKT]

I was under the impression that alot of those folks genuinely liked the ending of the game. Your response is exactly the type of incredulousness that I'm talking about.

Sorry, I'm just tired of hearing "I liked the ending" without any explanation as to why. That's something I've seen many times since the beginning of this whole affair.

[itxaka]

"Human, viable possibility .... impressive biotic potential."

Is this real?

Humans did not develop biotic powers until the "accident". It makes no sense that a race that can't develop biotics naturally is praised for their potential. jebus.

[Fowler]

That magic element which makes all this great technology possible? Yeah, it has a horrible downside you guys. Failing that, I would have taken a simple "Reapers entirely self-interested/evil, destroy them" over what we got, too. And it wouldn't undermine the Reaper's allusions to something greater, something incomprehensible, something that takes undying machine gods untold millions of years to find a solution to.

Yeah. Or they could justify it with something like, beings with a lifespan of 100 years can't understand actions that take place on a galactic scale, and that they have to fight a war to harvest species because who would die willingly to save something that will take an incomprehensible amount of time to unfold? That could work.

(And anyway, BioWare ruined the Reaper allusions to something incomprehensible by making it about Organics v Synthetics -- a concept that is ENTIRELY familiar to the current galaxy, given the quarians and geth and the resulting ban on AI.)

It also opens up a whole bunch of other possibilities. For instance -- and this would probably take tweaks to ME2 to work, so this is less an actual plot point and more a fun "what if?" scenario -- based on the plot outline, you might be able to cast ME2 in an entirely different light. What if the Collectors were the Reapers' attempt to harvest a species and create a new Reaper WITHOUT having to go through another devastating galaxy-wide war? The Protheans locked them out of the Citadel, Sovereign's attempt to re-start the usual Reaper destruction cycle failed in ME1, so ME2 was the Reapers' attempt to alter the cycle while still achieving their goals. And if that was true, then you could hit Shepard with the revelation that the galaxy-wide war he's trying to stop in ME3 is actually HIS fault: By stopping the Reaper plot in ME2, he forced them to invade in numbers.

(And there's always the simple irony that Shepard is fighting to save the galaxy from beings that are fighting to save the universe.)

[nel e nel]

Sorry, I'm just tired of hearing "I liked the ending" without any explanation as to why. That's something I've seen many times since the beginning of this whole affair.

There's been plenty of explanations as to why, FCH gave his, the Bioware employee on the BSN gave his. Generally speaking, there's less incentive to justify why you like something as versus why you don't.

And again, your response is exactly what I'm talking about, why do I have to explain why I like something? Why can't that just be the end of it, and we go on our merry way? Are you just unable or unwilling to believe someone doesn't share your opinion?

I fail to see how the opinions of faceless individuals on the internet impact your game experience.

[_Keiichi_]

20$? Where the fuck do you have to pay 20$ for Javik?

I dunno.




Edit: Apparently, he's talking about the CE.

[.GqueB.]

Doesn't sound any better quite honestly. And the ending we got wasn't THAT bad after they released the DLC.

[Imp the Dimp]

Karpyshyn is not overly talented himself but he puts the current writing team of Bioware to shame, indeed. I did enjoy the first Mass Effect novel though. The second one was piss poor.

[nel e nel]

Doesn't sound any better quite honestly. And the ending we got wasn't THAT bad after they released the DLC.

It wasn't any different either.

[UnluckyKate]

This just feeds my "Mass Effect = Gurren-Lagann" conspiracy theory.

Tell me more

[Crewnh]

It wasn't any different either.

They straight up retconned the mass relays blowing up

[nel e nel]

They straight up retconned the mass relays blowing up

Depends on how you interpreted it the first time around. They didn't add anything that I didn't come to on my own before the EC.

[Lime]

Disagreeing with an opinion doesn't make it unsound.

Opinion = argument in this case. His argument on why the Mass Effect 3's ending is logically invalid and factually unsound considering what is considered contemporary standards of storytelling. And even if we claim that standards of storytelling is somehow completely relative and subjective (i.e. disregarding the consensual agreements contemporary society has on what is considered "good" or "bad" storytelling), then I could point to how much of his lambasting criticism of some films and their storytelling directly contradict what he found "poetic" about ME3's ending.

He's free to personally like it, but making aesthetic judgments aren't that simple as just "having an opinion". You have to make a logically valid and sound line of argument, which Film Critic Hulk failed to do when he tried to analyze the storytelling aspect of the ME3 ending.

[Crewnh]

Depends on how you interpreted it the first time around. They didn't add anything that I didn't come to on my own before the EC.

I don't know how else you can interpret it, they outright show it in the original endings.

[DTKT]

There's been plenty of explanations as to why, FCH gave his, the Bioware employee on the BSN gave his. Generally speaking, there's less incentive to justify why you like something as versus why you don't. And again, your response is exactly what I'm talking about, why do I have to explain why I like something? Why can't that just be the end of it, and we go on our merry way? Are you just unable or unwilling to believe someone doesn't share your opinion?

Fair enough.

Do you have a link to the BSN post? I can't take the FCH serious. I just lost it when he compares ME3 to Citizen Kane and how the gaming community just wasn't ready for a masterpiece.

[TheBaronOfNA]

The original idea sounds also pretty awful to me.

[Dmax3901]

Fuck that loser.

[nel e nel]

Opinion = argument in this case. His argument on why the Mass Effect 3's ending is logically invalid and factually unsound considering what is considered contemporary standards of storytelling. And even if we claim that standards of storytelling is somehow completely relative and subjective (i.e. disregarding the consensual agreements contemporary society has on what is considered "good" or "bad" storytelling), then I could point to how much of his lambasting criticism of some films and their storytelling directly contradict what he found "poetic" about ME3's ending. He's free to personally like it, but making aesthetic judgments aren't that simple as just "having an opinion". You have to make a logically valid and sound line of argument, which Film Critic Hulk failed to do when he tried to analyze the storytelling aspect of the ME3 ending.

Aesthetics aren't necessarily logical, it's the study of art, sentiment and taste, which are highly subjective. He thinking critically as to why he liked the ending and explaining it.

[nel e nel]

Fair enough. Do you have a link to the BSN post? I can't take the FCH serious. I just lost it when he compares ME3 to Citizen Kane and how the gaming community just wasn't ready for a masterpiece.

Just heading out to dinner now, so I'll try and dig it up. While I admire FCH taking a stand for what s/he believes in, I also agree that the name calling was totally unnecessary.

[masterkajo]

I just finished Mass Effect 3 about a week ago. This original ending is much better than my personal ending of just losing because I didn't accept any of the three choices.

Storywise, I really loved the first Mass Effect. I was still okay with the second (minus some small changes) but would have loved the third to focus more on the Reapers (instead of Cerberus) and have a lot of different endings depending on choices throughout the trilogy.

Anyway, ME1 is and will always be one of my alltime favorite games and since I am just starting in the gaming industry I now finally have a dream to produce a trilogy of games with a coherent story and choices and consequences that actually matter. :)

[Rufus]

Depends on how you interpreted it the first time around. They didn't add anything that I didn't come to on my own before the EC.

They did feel it was necessary to clarify them, because a big explosion wasn't clear enough. An awful lot of people weren't willing to concede to something they weren't seeing. There was no ambiguity in what we were shown. What you 'came to' regardless of seeing the relays burst apart and explode isn't relevant, and Bioware agreed.

[TheChaos]

I dunno. Edit: Apparently, he's talking about the CE.

I see your confession and raise you this one:

[Lime]

Aesthetics aren't necessarily logical, it's the study of art, sentiment and taste, which are highly subjective. He thinking critically as to why he liked the ending and explaining it.

Yes, aesthetic statements aren't necessarily logical, but Film Critic puts forth an argument why the ME3 ending is supposedly a masterpiece, complete with premises and a conclusion (however non-explicit those might be). These premises are flawed and do not logically entail his conclusion.

Again, he's free to personally like it, but when his argument relies on Mass Effect 3 being "THEMATICALLY COHERENT AND BEAUTIFUL." or that the ones who wanted the ending changed "ACTUALLY WANT THE DEATH OF STORYTELLING" or that the same people's "COMPLAINTS AREN'T VALID" , then it's pretty easy to refute by simply pointing to the factual deficiencies and actual state of affairs that Hulk is completely neglecting and misrepresenting.

Most damning for his argument is the fact that he reduces the choices aspect of the Mass Effect to simply be "a game mechanic" , which is a reductio ad absurdum that highlights how out of touch Hulk is when it comes to appropriately analyzing digital games. He completely misses the interdependent relationship between the semantic and the procedural layers (what is by most game study academics considered as the ontological make-up of a digital game), and that should tell you how he is incredibly flawed as a game analyst/critic.

Also the fact that hefollows the "author = supreme, incorruptible being, who is independent of any influences" school of narrative suggests he is ~60 years behind in terms of the academic field of narrative.

[Rufus]

Also the fact that he/she follows the "author = supreme, incorruptible being, who is independent of any influences" school of narrative suggests he or she is ~60 years behind in terms of the academic field of narrative.

The only other of his article's I've read is the 'intervention' for Lindelof (because of Prometheus), which seems to refute that at least:
http://badassdigest.com/2012/06/17/f...-intervention/

Unrelated pedantry: I think it's fine to use male pronouns, because the Hulk is male. The he/she thing is always clumsy, but using 'they' doesn't feel right in this case, because, again, we at least know the gender of the alter-ego.

[Lime]

The only other of his article's I've read is the 'intervention' for Lindelof (because of Prometheus), which seems to refute that at least: http://badassdigest.com/2012/06/17/f...-intervention/

Exactly my point. His other posts contradict his ME3 analysis.

Unrelated pedantry: I think it's fine to use male pronouns, because the Hulk is male. The he/she thing is always clumsy, but using 'they' doesn't feel right in this case, because, again, we at least know the gender of the alter-ego.

Yeah, I was tired and thought of FCH as an unknown blogger, rather than a male. I usually only do something like a he or she when I don't know the gender of said person, while I at times can be too relaxed in informal contexts, like neogaf. Thanks for pointing it out.

[televator]

"Cerberus? I think I remember you guys." -Paragon Sole Survivor Shepard who did all the Cerberus missions in ME1 It's funny how they covered their asses on that aspect by having Miranda try and explain away all the experiments and completely ignoring the Sole Survivor aspect until Lair of the Shadow Broker, where they actually acknowledged it by calling Shepard a hypocrite as though you actually had a choice.

Is the idea behind "sole survivor" that Shep sacrificed all his/her comrades in order to secure victory/survive? I merely glanced at those options in ME1 and picked one that sounded cool.

[XiaNaphryz]

It must have been tough for Mass Effect 3 writers facing the ire of fans.

I thought the issue with the ending was that the lead writer and producer sat in a room and figured out the end, without any input or feedback from the rest of the writers? Was that just speculation?

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Is the idea behind "sole survivor" that Shep sacrificed all his/her comrades in order to secure victory/survive? I merely glanced at those options in ME1 and picked one that sounded cool.

Nah, that was the ruthless one I think. Sole survivor basically you and your unit were in hell and you were the only one to make it out alive (well one other guy did too)

[televator]

Nah, that was the ruthless one I think. Sole survivor basically you and your unit were in hell and you were the only one to make it out alive (well one other guy did too)

Oh wait that's right! And it turns out that Cerberus was the reason for it all. That's the hypocrisy they were getting at in Shadow Broker.

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Oh wait that's right! And it turns out that Cerberus was the reason for it all. That's the hypocrisy they were getting at in Shadow Broker.

yup

[Rufus]

Yeah, I was tired and thought of FCH as an unknown blogger, rather than a male. I usually only do something like a he or she when I don't know the gender of said person, while I at times can be too relaxed in informal contexts, like neogaf. Thanks for pointing it out.

No worries. Now let me re-adjust this mouse pad here, it's not perfectly parallel to the table.

I thought the issue with the ending was that the lead writer and producer sat in a room and figured out the end, without any input or feedback from the rest of the writers? Was that just speculation?

Never outright confirmed by Bioware, but Patrick Weekes, or rather, his account on the Penny Arcade Forums said as much. He also detailed what portions were written by him, so... I think there were some weak denials, not sure, but it's pretty safe assumption that it's true. Unless you want to believe that it wasn't him using his account and that he's a liar, rather than someone who unwittingly threw his superiors under the bus, trying to appease the fans and their displeasure with the ending.

[aeolist]

Wonder if they changed it partly to make it less of a blatant Revelation Space ripoff

[Bisnic]

Oh wait that's right! And it turns out that Cerberus was the reason for it all. That's the hypocrisy they were getting at in Shadow Broker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9KJW9VNnmw

Link for those who forgot. She even bother to mention it if you're a "Sole Survivor". Yet Shepard doesn't give a shit. :P

[AuthenticM]

It still doesn't make sense to me how the ending isn't even consistent with the rest of ME3 let alone the other games. The ending just feels like it was made in a bubble.

Wasn't there a writer of Mass Effect 3 who said that Casey Hudson hijacked the project at the last minute and changed the ending ?

[truly101]

I don't remember dark energy being that prevalent in ME1, but I guess the same could be said for Cerberus. If I remember correctly, there were a couple of evil space corporations involved in some of the ME1 side missions.

[Trick_GSF]

I just paid £7:99 for the Javik DLC. Thanks for nothing, Bioware.

Seriously, £3.99 at best.

[BeesEight]

"Asari, reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness" "Human, viable possibility .... impressive biotic potential."

Humans - amazing because of all this genetic variability.

Asari - genetics so adaptable they're capable of reproducing with any species. God damn sissies.

The writing in Mass Effect wasn't ever coherent.

[Trigger]

The Bioware Confessions tumblr is amazing.

[Crewnh]

oh my god

[ThoseDeafMutes]

That ending was actually guessed by about 50 different people on the Bioware Social forums back in the day. They even had hints of it in ME2 in case they wanted to go that direciton, with the Tali missions on Haestrom and it's sun that was aging at an accelerated rate due to dark energy use.

However, the ending still would have fucking sucked. It still doesn't make sense as to why they would wait 50,000 years, rather than having permanent observation on life-bearing planets, and simply explaining the danger to newly space-faring civilizations and that they shouldn't mess with the technology as a result. If they wouldn't listen to you, THEN you attack them.

[earvcunanan]

Yeah, I thought I read about this before. Back in March, it seems:

http://www.oxm.co.uk/39736/revealed-...efore-release/

Still, interesting to have it come up again. Drew should've just stayed and completed the writing for the trilogy. He's a fantastic writer.

[DTKT]

That ending was actually guessed by about 50 different people on the Bioware Social forums back in the day. They even had hints of it in ME2 in case they wanted to go that direciton, with the Tali missions on Haestrom and it's sun that was aging at an accelerated rate due to dark energy use. However, the ending still would have fucking sucked. It still doesn't make sense as to why they would wait 50,000 years, rather than having permanent observation on life-bearing planets, and simply explaining the danger to newly space-faring civilizations and that they shouldn't mess with the technology as a result. If they wouldn't listen to you, THEN you attack them.

Yeah, that was pretty incredible.

Post from BSN, 3 years ago:

Exactly. There are two endings I wouldn't like for ME 3. One being a random GOD LIKE force that saves the Galaxy or another being that to defeat the Reapers, everyone has to become a primitivst and destroy the Relays, Citadel, etc. Both would make me pretty unhappy as those endings have been done to death.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Wow.

Just.
Wow.

[Replicant]

That ending would at least tie in with the name of "Mass Effect" whereas the ending we got has nothing to do whatsoever with the title.

[WonkersTHEWatilla]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with option c, Bioware: The Reapers were just intergalactic bogeymen. No backstory required.

oh my god

Actually, If I were being honest, most of the time I couldn't bear being a dick to Garrus, Liara, or Tali, among others.