[onQ123]

People just love to complain?


with Counter Strike: Global Offensive & Dust 514 having KB/M & Move support I noticed that a few people keep saying that it's unfair.


my question is how is it any different from playing games on the PC when some people have high price gaming KB\M & some have the standard KB\M? & if you feel that it's so unfair why not just use KB\M yourself? most KB\M are cheaper than a new controller & most of us already have them anyway so what's the big deal?

[hyduK]

People just love to complain? with Counter Strike: Global Offensive & Dust 514 having KB/M & Move support I noticed that a few people keep saying that it's unfair. my question is how is it any different from playing games on the PC when some people have high price gaming KB\M & some have the standard KB\M? & if you feel that it's so unfair why not just use KB\M yourself? most KB\M are cheaper than a new controller & most of us already have them anyway so what's the big deal?

HDTVs are an unfair advantage.
Good sound is an unfair advantage.

People just like bitching. Not that the game isn't easier to play with KB+M, but if they really care they should just get it on PC.

[ghst]

i bet the rest of the fish got pretty pissed when some of them started sprouting legs, too.

i'm gonna be sorely disappointed if there isn't someone who rolls in here claiming parity between devices.

[1-D_FTW]

Kids who play games 14 hours a day: Unfair advantage?

This is why they have matchmaking on consoles. Who gives a fuck if someone can aim because they play 14 hours a day or because they're using a mouse. They're matched with equally skilled players.

[Rickenslacker]

With the detractors I don't think it's a matter of not having a KB+M, it's just that they probably don't have comfortable placement for a KB+M on their console setup.

In regards to the split, I think it's a non-issue with proper matchmaking. People will be sorted depending on performance regardless of input method and should theoretically even out.

[darkside31337]

Are there leaderboards for this game?

I'm honestly fascinated to see how the breakdown works out between KB+M vs DS3 vs Move.

And no its not really an advantage. If you think it is then just plug in your KB+M into your PS3.

[plagiarize]

With the detractors I don't think it's a matter of not having a KB+M, it's just that they probably don't have comfortable placement for a KB+M on their console setup. In regards to the split, I think it's a non-issue with proper matchmaking. People will be sorted depending on performance regardless of input method and should theoretically even out.

i don't remember it being a huge issue amongst UT3 players. anyone who wants to be competitive will get the right set up and anyone who wants to just play for fun will go with whatever they prefer.

[mbmonk]

And no its not really an advantage. If you think it is then just plug in your KB+M into your PS3.

I disagree. :P

Mouse + Keyboard over DS3. Not sure about Move though. I wonder what TTP has to say on the matter.

[Ysiadmihi]

And no its not really an advantage. If you think it is then just plug in your KB+M into your PS3.

Well that didn't take long.

[TheExodu5]

Yes, it's an unfair advantage. The idea of competitive console gaming is that everyone is on the same level, and they don't need to worry about buying special hardware to have an edge on the competition. A lot of people also don't want to have to worry about accomodating a kb/m setup.

I think Valve is right in matching people playing with the same controller type.

[out0v0rder]

thumb sticks are better than kbm anyways, don't see what the problem is. with an analog stick im not hunched over a desk trying to squint at a computer monitor that is usually used for work, i want to game, not do work.

[Grimsen]

It really depends on the genre. It's not unfair in the FGC... Not much of a competitive FPS player though, so can't really comment on that.

[Crewnh]

a keyboard and mouse are special hardware now?

[onQ123]

Yes, it's an unfair advantage. The idea of competitive console gaming is that everyone is on the same level, and they don't need to worry about buying special hardware to have an edge on the competition. A lot of people also don't want to have to worry about accomodating a kb/m setup. I think Valve is right in matching people playing with the same controller type.

oh really?




because I never heard of the people who play fighting games competitively saying that it's unfair & there is lots of different Arcade Sticks.

[vilmer_]

I tried using an Eagle Eye kb/mouse converter with MW3 and it was absolute destruction. It is most definitely an advantage.

[Orayn]

thumb sticks are better than kbm anyways, don't see what the problem is. with an analog stick im not hunched over a desk trying to squint at a computer monitor that is usually used for work, i want to game, not do work.

1. Analog sticks are strictly worse for precision aiming.
2. Hunching is a problem with your posture and seating.
3. Squinting means you either have bad vision or too small of a monitor.
4. COUCH = PLAY, DESK = WORK is a false dichotomy if there ever was one.

[onQ123]

1. Analog sticks are strictly worse for precision aiming. 2. Hunching is a problem with your posture and seating. 3. Squinting means you either have bad vision or too small of a monitor. 4. COUCH = PLAY, DESK = WORK is a false dichotomy if there ever was one.

I think that was a joke post.

[Atomski]

thumb sticks are better than kbm anyways, don't see what the problem is. with an analog stick im not hunched over a desk trying to squint at a computer monitor that is usually used for work, i want to game, not do work.

Hahaha, I lovvvveee post like these.

Anyways anyone that would argue M/KB not being an advantage or being on equal ground are crazy. Its just so much more faster and accurate and dosnt need handicaps like auto aim.

I feel like kids these days hate keyboard mouse just because they dont take the time to get the muscle memory. Otherwise they would totally see why its better for competitive gaming.

Also yeah Valve was right in what they did.

[darkpaladinmfc]

oh really? because I never heard of the people who play fighting games competitively saying that it's unfair & there is lots of different Arcade Sticks.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to play at a high competitive level with a controller in a competitive FPS like CS/Quake, but it's very possible to play at a high competitive level with a controller in a competitive fighting game.

[1-D_FTW]

I think that was a joke post.

Haha. It had to have been. It hit every single buzz word. So either it was a joke post or the most cliched post you could have unintentionally made. Either way, I found it entertaining.

[Orayn]

I think that was a joke post.

I really hope so.

oh really? because I never heard of the people who play fighting games competitively saying that it's unfair & there is lots of different Arcade Sticks.

I think this is a case of using the right input method for the genre. Contrary to what some PC users would have you believe, KB/M isn't the one setup to rule them all. It's got serious shortcomings when it comes to third person games that use analog movement speed and direction, as well as simulators that need analog axes for other reasons. In those cases, the optimum input methods are dual analog controllers and full sized joystick and throttle setups respectively.

For the FPS genre, it's hard to argue that the optimal device is anything but keyboard and mouse. There will always be a few oddballs as with fighting games and pad-users, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

[stuminus3]

People used to say this about Quake III on Dreamcast.

And you know what?

Those people SUCKED at Quake.

[TheExodu5]

The difference between an arrcade stick and a gamepad is minuscule when compared to the difference between m/kb and a controller.

Controllers are still viable in high level competitive play for fighting games, even if they're not the preferred input method. Controllers are not viable in the least when pitted against m/kb.

[wildfire]

thumb sticks are better than kbm anyways, don't see what the problem is. with an analog stick im not hunched over a desk trying to squint at a computer monitor that is usually used for work, i want to game, not do work.

The advantage thumbstick joypads have is better movement over a keyboard on a 2 dimensional plane. Beyond that keyboards are better for multitasking in general and movement in 3 dimensional for games that have that. The mouse is superior to the thumbstick when it comes to aiming. This is fact and has been proven every single time keyboard and mouse players were matched up with thumbstick players since the Shadowrun on the Xbox to today's games on the PS3.

oh really? because I never heard of the people who play fighting games competitively saying that it's unfair & there is lots of different Arcade Sticks.

*pushes chips in*

Raise!

[galvatron]

Raise!

An interesting point...Hitbox sticks (arcade controls where the 4-directional inputs are mapped to buttons) were banned in tournaments for MvC3 because some of the possible button inputs could result in otherwise impossible scenarios, like holding forward and backwards at the same time so you don't have to guess which way to block.

As someone else pointed out, playing 14-hours a day will often make more of a difference than your input device. It dawned on me the other day while playing VF5FS, that being good at a competitive game is super expensive if you assign a $ value to your time. The joysticks or KB/M are very cheap, by comparison.

[Solid warrior]

Does the PS3 support Gaming mouse? AKA Razer, Roccat, etc

[ilnadmy]

I thought PCs were stupid and analog sticks were just as good as M+KB?

As long as M+KB functionality is never implemented on consoles that is.

[StuBurns]

I think it's a terrible idea. Even if it's considered when match making. I never want to feel someone has some huge advantage over me. There's no way I'll buy GO until they patch control filters in.

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Kids who play games 14 hours a day: Unfair advantage? This is why they have matchmaking on consoles. Who gives a fuck if someone can aim because they play 14 hours a day or because they're using a mouse. They're matched with equally skilled players.

Lol this.

[chiablo]

Does the PS3 support Gaming mouse? AKA Razer, Roccat, etc

Shouldn't matter since they are all standard HID devices. The extra buttons will most likely not work.

[OldAsUrSock]

Shooter gamers are just whiners. You don't have people complain about wheels or sticks in racing or fighting genre's. I say it is fair just like surround sound headphones and FPS freaks.

[alr1ght]

I think it's dumb and I'm probably not getting CSGO on PS3 due to it. It's especially a disadvantage in a game like CS. With COD there's a ton of aim assist with the controller so the advantage would be somewhat lessened.

[Reallink]

It will literally be pointless for a controller player to seriously compete against M/KB if the implementation is decent. It's akin to pitting a Chevy Cobalt against a Ferrari Enzo, lopsided to the point of being comically ridiculous.

[Solid warrior]

Shouldn't matter since they are all standard HID devices. The extra buttons will most likely not work.

I mean my gaming mouse will not work as it supposed to on my Windows PC unless the official driver is used. Windows generic driver will make it perform like sh*t.

[Dynamic3]

Yes, it's an unfair advantage. The idea of competitive console gaming is that everyone is on the same level, and they don't need to worry about buying special hardware to have an edge on the competition. A lot of people also don't want to have to worry about accomodating a kb/m setup. I think Valve is right in matching people playing with the same controller type.

I'm pretty sure Valve is not doing this with CS:GO, rather they believe players will inherently separate themselves based on the drastic difference in performance.

[AgentOtaku]

I thought the servers were filtered for this anyways?

Am I wrong?

[alr1ght]

I thought the servers were filtered for this anyways? Am I wrong?

Apparently not. The better players (most likely mouse users) will get matched against the better players.

[OldAsUrSock]

The advantage thumbstick joypads have is better movement over a keyboard on a 2 dimensional plane. Beyond that keyboards are better for multitasking in general and movement in 3 dimensional for games that have that. The mouse is superior to the thumbstick when it comes to aiming. This is fact and has been proven every single time keyboard and mouse players were matched up with thumbstick players since the Shadowrun on the Xbox to today's games on the PS3.

I disagree with a little of what you said. Movement is always better with the analog sticks and in some shooters sticks are better than the kb/m. In unreal tournament on the PS3 the skill level from thumbsticks and kb/m is very close so not all games the kb/m has instant advantage like in COD.

[Solid warrior]

I think it's a terrible idea. Even if it's considered when match making. I never want to feel someone has some huge advantage over me. There's no way I'll buy GO until they patch control filters in.

Generic mouse player won't play good on a counter-strike match. I think a skilled controller player will beat all generic mouse players in a heartbeat. Gaming Mouse on the other hand is a different story, super accurate, instant headshots most of the time. I'm not sure if the PS3 supports Gaming mouse or not. I haven't tried, but I think it enables generic drivers for gaming mouse, so it most likely will perform like any other mouse and it can't be considered a threat for controllers IMO.

[mrklaw]

I really hope so. I think this is a case of using the right input method for the genre. Contrary to what some PC users would have you believe, KB/M isn't the one setup to rule them all. It's got serious shortcomings when it comes to third person games that use analog movement speed and direction, as well as simulators that need analog axes for other reasons. In those cases, the optimum input methods are dual analog controllers and full sized joystick and throttle setups respectively. For the FPS genre, it's hard to argue that the optimal device is anything keyboard and mouse. There will always be a few oddballs as with fighting games and pad-users, but they're the exception rather than the rule.

Could it be argued that for an FPS, the ideal setup would be an analogue controller in one hand and a mouse in the other? Sonyou can have analogue movement with the aiming accuracy and speed of a mouse

Don't suppose the PS3 lets you use a DS3/mouse combo?

[alr1ght]

Could it be argued that for an FPS, the ideal setup would be an analogue controller in one hand and a mouse in the other? Sonyou can have analogue movement with the aiming accuracy and speed of a mouse Don't suppose the PS3 lets you use a DS3/mouse combo?

I would love that. Use the Move's nunchuck controller with a mouse to aim.

[Ysiadmihi]

Generic mouse player won't play good on a counter-strike match. I think a skilled controller player will beat all generic mouse players in a heartbeat. Gaming Mouse on the other hand is a different story, super accurate, instant headshots most of the time. I'm not sure if the PS3 supports Gaming mouse or not. I haven't tried, but I think it enables generic drivers for gaming mouse, so it most likely will perform like any other mouse and it can't be considered a threat for controllers IMO.

lol

Generic mice destroy pads when it comes to aiming. It's still a mouse.

[smr00]

Yes, it's an unfair advantage. The idea of competitive console gaming is that everyone is on the same level, and they don't need to worry about buying special hardware to have an edge on the competition. A lot of people also don't want to have to worry about accomodating a kb/m setup. I think Valve is right in matching people playing with the same controller type.

That's the thing. Kids who play 14 hours a day have a huge advantage over someone like me that gets to play maybe 2 hours a day.

How is that fair? M/KB is just as fair. Evens the odds.

[StuBurns]

Generic mouse player won't play good on a counter-strike match. I think a skilled controller player will beat all generic mouse players in a heartbeat. Gaming Mouse on the other hand is a different story, super accurate, instant headshots most of the time.

Even the worst mouse is going to outclass a gamepad with similar skilled people, especially with the awp. Even in PC gaming, it's not a level playing field as such, some people are playing on higher performance machines, a very low latency, high performance monitor, a very nice gaming mouse etc, but those differences are no where near the gulf between a gamepad and the kbm.

The thing I like most about console gaming is the parity of the experience from player to player. This is enough to stop me considering buying it. Although, I've bought it on PC of course, but I'd be happy to have bought it on PS3 too had this been filtered. That goes for the Move too.

[darkpaladinmfc]

Could it be argued that for an FPS, the ideal setup would be an analogue controller in one hand and a mouse in the other? Sonyou can have analogue movement with the aiming accuracy and speed of a mouse Don't suppose the PS3 lets you use a DS3/mouse combo?

Keyboard is still better. You can change direction much quicker on it. Moving the thumbstick from left to right is slower than pressing a key that your hand is already on. Your left hand also has access to a ton of keys with a keyboard, but with a controller you use too many fingers to support the pad.

[TucoBenedictoPacifico]

i bet the rest of the fish got pretty pissed when some of them started sprouting legs, too.

10/10.
This is gold.

[Solid warrior]

lol Generic mice destroy pads when it comes to aiming. It's still a mouse.

My new razer is day and night different than my old generic mouse. My performance has improved A LOT since I've began using it.

So, If you think you're a pro KB/M gamer and you're ok with generic mouse, go ahead and try to beat skilled controller players. It'd be more interesting to post it on youtube.

[Krackatoa]

because I never heard of the people who play fighting games competitively saying that it's unfair & there is lots of different Arcade Sticks.

The thing about fighting games is that the motions and inputs required can be matched regardless of your chosen form of input. You'd be hardpressed to find a specific series of inputs on an arcade stick that a pad player would not be able to accomplish.

Some controllers are not very conducive to the genre, like the vanilla 360 pads, but you can still use them, and with enough practice, match those on stick.

In the FPS genre, an analog stick directly inhibits a wide range of fundamental motions that are only possible via Keyboard and Mouse. That's the difference.

[therapist]

this is not even questionable , keyb and mouse is far superior.

Move would be closer , but still wont match it.

It all depends how they implement the mouse controls and how much auto aim the controller get however.

[storafötter]

Damn I didn't even know this existed. That happens when I stop following the Arcade Stick threads. It looks quite interesting and new (dare I say fun?) creative way to play games.