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nordique
Member
(09-11-2012, 07:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

How would he confirm them as legit? The guy has actual information.

fixed
Mihael Mello Keehl
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:01 PM)
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EU wont have price and date? Thats pretty half baked.
jonno394
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mihael Mello Keehl

EU wont have price and date? Thats pretty half baked.

Source?
nordique
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hoodbury

Hey BG, could you go into what these leaked specs mean in regard to all that GP/GPU talk that was going on a couple months ago? Weren't you and others saying a good GP/GPU would alleviate some of the pressure off of a weaker CPU?

Does the leaked specs still say that?

The problem with the leaked "final" specs is they don't give any concrete information

in fact, they don't give any more information than we've had for months and months now

We don't have clock speeds, and all the nitty gritty details of the parts, so its tough to form an idea...keep in mind I don't see how these specs contradict what bg (and others) have been saying for months
wsippel
(09-11-2012, 08:05 PM)

Originally Posted by NateDrake

So Wii U won't have a DX11 equivalent. :(

No, but that doesn't necessarily pose a problem. We'll see. Nobody in the industry uses D3D proper - not even Microsoft.
majik13
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mihael Mello Keehl

EU wont have price and date? Thats pretty half baked.

I think Spieler Eins, meant that the EU Direct will not have a price and date for NA WiiU, I guess.
I Stalk Alone
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by nordique

The problem with the leaked "final" specs is they don't give any concrete information

in fact, they don't give any more information than we've had for months and months now

We don't have clock speeds, and all the nitty gritty details of the parts, so its tough to form an idea...keep in mind I don't see how these specs contradict what bg (and others) have been saying for months

it is pretty much the same info except for the name espresso and "enhanced broadway". no numbers but we may be able to distingush architecture, maybe.
Spieler Eins
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by jonno394

Source?

NoE will let retailers set the price. (Done that with 3DS and there has been an interview with Spanish Nintendo reps in here re-confirming the same thing for WiiU) Obviously, it will just be the usual €=$ deal, but you gotta check the Reggie conference for the standard price point.
Last edited by Spieler Eins; 09-11-2012 at 08:09 PM.
Margalis
Banned
(09-11-2012, 08:10 PM)

Originally Posted by bgassassin

I speculate endlessly because Nintendo is not giving full details. What you are seeing is what Nintendo is giving devs. (Beaten by blu)

No. What you are seeing is not what Nintendo is giving devs. You really think Wii-U developers have this level of information and nothing more? That's completely laughable.

Let me ask you a couple questions straight up:

1. Do you have a Wii U dev kit?

2. Are you licensed Nintendo developer?

3. Are you a licensed developer for any console?

I suspect the answer to all three is no. You don't seem to have any idea of how console development works, like at all.

An actual dev does not just know what the chip has "enhanced Broadway", they know how much cache it has, the exact instruction set, and exactly what that means. It would be impossible to make games otherwise. This information, if real, is most likely what you see if you have a Warioware login but aren't a licensed Wii-U developer. The idea that this is all that actual Wii-U devs know is just beyond inane.

At best you are a licensed Nintendo dev without Wii-U privileges, but even that seems highly unlikely given that in that case you would have leaked this info yourself.
Last edited by Margalis; 09-11-2012 at 08:16 PM.
nordique
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by blu

Boo.

haha
Mihael Mello Keehl
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:11 PM)
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Well yea I forget they let retailers set price there. They should have date I would think though.
D-e-f-
Banned
(09-11-2012, 08:14 PM)

Originally Posted by Mihael Mello Keehl

EU wont have price and date? Thats pretty half baked.

Originally Posted by jonno394

Source?

Originally Posted by majik13

I think Spieler Eins, meant that the EU Direct will not have a price and date for NA WiiU, I guess.

This ->

Originally Posted by Spieler Eins

NoE will let retailers set the price. (Done that with 3DS and there has been an interview with Spanish Nintendo reps in here re-confirming the same thing for WiiU) Obviously, it will just be the usual =$ deal, but you gotta check the Reggie conference for the standard price point.

I've been saying it over and over. Of course the EU even will have the EU date but no price (reasons see above).

Wouldn't hurt to pay attention to other posts than all the specpocalypse talk :)
nordique
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by I Stalk Alone

it is pretty much the same info except for the name espresso and "enhanced broadway". no numbers but we may be able to distingush architecture, maybe.

yeah, exactly
NateDrake
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

No, but that doesn't necessarily pose a problem. We'll see. Nobody in the industry uses D3D proper - not even Microsoft.

Interesting. Thanks!
bgassassin
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

No. What you are seeing is not what Nintendo is giving devs. You really think Wii-U developers have this level of information and nothing more? That's completely laughable.

Let me ask you a couple questions straight up:

1. Do you have a Wii U dev kit?

2. Are you licensed Nintendo developer?

3. Are you a licensed developer for any console?

I suspect the answer to all three is no. You don't seem to have any idea of how console development works, like at all.

An actual dev does not just know what the chip has "enhanced Broadway", they know how much cache it has, the exact instruction set, etc. It would be impossible to make games otherwise.

Of course it's no to all three. I've even said so in the past. But Nintendo isn't giving much info to devs. We've known the cache amount since last year (3MB split asymetrically). Just because I'm not a dev doesn't mean I haven't spoken to those who are. They aren't giving clock speeds, ALU count for the GPU, etc. So yes the devs have been in essence playing a guessing game when it comes to development. Lherre essentially said that last year when it came to the GPU freezing.
nordique
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

No. What you are seeing is not what Nintendo is giving devs. You really think Wii-U developers have this level of information and nothing more? That's completely laughable.

Let me ask you a couple questions straight up:

1. Do you have a Wii U dev kit?

2. Are you licensed Nintendo developer?

3. Are you a licensed developer for any console?

I suspect the answer to all three is no. You don't seem to have any idea of how console development works, like at all.

An actual dev does not just know what the chip has "enhanced Broadway", they know how much cache it has, the exact instruction set, and exactly what that means. It would be impossible to make games otherwise. This information, if real, is most likely what you see if you have a Warioware login but aren't a licensed Wii-U developer. The idea that this is all that actual Wii-U devs know is just beyond inane.

I'm going to let bg answer for himself on this (edit: beaten), but he's my boy and I have to say you are being over-critical here

nothing wrong with being cautious, and I can understand why, but you'd be surprised how much bg actually knows (edit #2: this goes with the other next gen systems too)
Last edited by nordique; 09-11-2012 at 08:19 PM.
GameplayWhore
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by NateDrake

So Wii U won't have a DX11 equivalent. :(

Out of curiosity, given that advanced tessellation and gpgpu have been rumoured as being bolted on top, what are the big features of DX11 that you feel are missing in a DX10.1-equivalent gpu?
ScreenSplitter
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(09-11-2012, 08:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hoodbury

If it wasn't during work hours then Iwata would have to pay Reggie overtime.

Honestly though, what do you think a marketing guy like Reggie does when he's not talking big at press shows? I'd love to see his day to day routine.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by D-e-f-

This ->



I've been saying it over and over. Of course the EU even will have the EU date but no price (reasons see above).

Wouldn't hurt to pay attention to other posts than all the specpocalypse talk :)

Yea I just forgot retailers set their own price there. Please I dont give 1.5GB fucks about specs lol.
NateDrake
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(09-11-2012, 08:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameplayWhore

Out of curiosity, given that advanced tessellation and gpgpu have been rumoured as being bolted on top, what are the big features of DX11 that you feel are missing in a DX10.1-equivalent gpu?

Mostly rather have it there so it can't become an excuse from developers to not support the Wii U. As long as it has the advanced tessellation and is a GPGPU, then it should be fine since the architecture will be close enough to other next-gen systems for downports.
Margalis
Banned
(09-11-2012, 08:20 PM)

Originally Posted by bgassassin

Of course it's no to all three. I've even said so in the past. But Nintendo isn't giving much info to devs.

Wii-U devs have devkits. That means they have know the instruction set for example. I mean FFS they have a compiler that produces that instruction set, how could they possibly not know?

What you seem to be talking about, your dev friends, are people who are licensed for Nintendo but not for Wii-U. They probably do not know a whole lot of specifics, sure. However actual Wii-U developers obviously know way way more than this.

As a dev you know exactly what features the GPU supports. How could you not know if you are working on a game that ships in a few months? The idea that this is the level of information that actual developers have is again just completely ridiculous.
axisofweevils
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(09-11-2012, 08:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by ScreenSplitter

Honestly though, what do you think a marketing guy like Reggie does when he's not talking big at press shows? I'd love to see his day to day routine.

Coming up with new memes, of course.
Discomurf
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(09-11-2012, 08:22 PM)
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Keeping it real for a sec...

THIS IS ALL RUMOR and no one here really knows anything still. We'll know the actual specs the day the console is released.
The_Lump
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(09-11-2012, 08:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by GameplayWhore

Out of curiosity, given that advanced tessellation and gpgpu have been rumoured as being bolted on top, what are the big features of DX11 that you feel are missing in a DX10.1-equivalent gpu?

From Wiki: "GPGPU support (DirectCompute), and Direct3D11 with tessellation support[34][35] and improved multi-threading support to assist video game developers in developing games that better utilize multi-core processors."

Plus shader model 5.0 requires Direct3D11
Margalis
Banned
(09-11-2012, 08:26 PM)

Originally Posted by nordique

nothing wrong with being cautious, and I can understand why, but you'd be surprised how much bg actually knows (edit #2: this goes with the other next gen systems too)

There is absolutely zero evidence that he knows anything. As far as I can tell he has never produced any actual information on this subject, he has merely repeated things he has seen and engaged in some silly speculation based on knowledge of PC components.

Why would I be surprised by what he knows? I've worked in console development and I know people working on the Wii U right now. (Before you ask I personally know nothing and if I did I wouldn't say) The type of "information" he is producing is not information anyone who had actual information would produce.
Last edited by Margalis; 09-11-2012 at 08:29 PM.
Coolwhip
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(09-11-2012, 08:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

There is absolutely zero evidence that he knows anything. As far as I can tell he has never produced any actual information on this subject, he has merely repeated things he has seen and engaged in some silly speculation based on knowledge of PC components.

Why would I be surprised by what he knows? I've worked in console development and I know people working on the Wii U right now. (Before you ask I personally know nothing and if I did I wouldn't say) The type of "information" he is producing is not information anyone who had actual information would produce.

On a personal vendetta or something?
Smiles and Cries
To hell with Bono,
here's a worthy cause.
(09-11-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

Wii-U devs have devkits. That means they have know the instruction set for example. I mean FFS they have a compiler that produces that instruction set, how could they possibly not know?

What you seem to be talking about, your dev friends, are people who are licensed for Nintendo but not for Wii-U. They probably do not know a whole lot of specifics, sure. However actual Wii-U developers obviously know way way more than this.

As a dev you know exactly what features the GPU supports. How could you not know if you are working on a game that ships in a few months? The idea that this is the level of information that actual developers have is again just completely ridiculous.

while you are here beating down on BG, why not share your background to help us understand why we need to sit through this fussing over BG?

The guy has helped keep WiiU threads alive for over a year now the bits of info BG gives has made for thousands of pages of good times for fans waiting on info and we all know this is what being on GAF is about - we are not all experts or connected but some of us are and BG is among the trusted
Jet Jaguar
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(09-11-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by ScreenSplitter

Honestly though, what do you think a marketing guy like Reggie does when he's not talking big at press shows? I'd love to see his day to day routine.

I reckon it's something like this:

Reggie strolls into NOA headquarters, into his office. He picks up the phone, gives Iwata a call

Iwata: "What?"

Reggie: "Bruv, what you got for me?"

Iwata: "Sell Animal Crossing as hardcore title".

Reggie: "Done!"

Fast forward to E3

Geoff: "We don't feel like Animal Crossing is the type of game hardcore players dig. What about your online sys--"

Reggie: "--GEOFF!"

Rinse and repeat.

--

In all seriousness, can't wait to see the Thursday Direct. 3pm here in the UK too.

Also, if no price is given, which is likely, I think we could fairly accurately deduce it from the NOA retail price.
Fourth Storm
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(09-11-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by bgassassin

For some reason I was thinking gDDR3 stopped at 1Gb. I just found a PDF on the 1Gb version and Samsung has gDDR3-2400 (assuming the same for 2Gb). It could still be used even if the GPU were 600Mhz.

I believe in that PDF it states that DDR3 2400 was waiting on JEDEC approval. I don't think that's ever become the case and in this pdf from this year they only give speeds up to 1066 Mhz. It would be great if they got the GPU up to 600 Mhz. Are we still working on the 75 watt rumor from however long ago?
Berg
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(09-11-2012, 08:29 PM)
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Will these work as external memory on the Wiiu?

I've got a whole bunch of empty 8gb thumb-drives i'd be pumped to be able to use.
EloquentM
aka Mannny
(09-11-2012, 08:30 PM)
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BG this is what happens when you're in the business of assassination. You make enemies.
nordique
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(09-11-2012, 08:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Discomurf

Keeping it real for a sec...

THIS IS ALL RUMOR and no one here really knows anything still. We'll know the actual specs the day the console is released.

source?
DynamicG
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(09-11-2012, 08:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by bgassassin

Of course it's no to all three. I've even said so in the past. But Nintendo isn't giving much info to devs. We've known the cache amount since last year (3MB split asymetrically). Just because I'm not a dev doesn't mean I haven't spoken to those who are. They aren't giving clock speeds, ALU count for the GPU, etc. So yes the devs have been in essence playing a guessing game when it comes to development. Lherre essentially said that last year when it came to the GPU freezing.

Be careful driving home tonight BG, that one seems to have it out for you.
The_Lump
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(09-11-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

Wii-U devs have devkits. That means they have know the instruction set for example. I mean FFS they have a compiler that produces that instruction set, how could they possibly not know?

What you seem to be talking about, your dev friends, are people who are licensed for Nintendo but not for Wii-U. They probably do not know a whole lot of specifics, sure. However actual Wii-U developers obviously know way way more than this.

As a dev you know exactly what features the GPU supports. How could you not know if you are working on a game that ships in a few months? The idea that this is the level of information that actual developers have is again just completely ridiculous.

For what its worth (ur mind seems pretty made up) a few other people here and on other forums have seemingly received the same info. If you don't believe it to be true, fine. But dont attack bg as if he's purposfully spreading misinformation.
ScreenSplitter
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(09-11-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by The_Lump

For what its worth (ur mind seems pretty made up) a few other people here and on other forums have seemingly received the same info. If you don't believe it to be true, fine. But dont attack bg as of he's purposfully spreading misinformation.

Yeah, blame Llhere for that

I kid
ohlawd
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(09-11-2012, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by DynamicG

Be careful driving home tonight BG, that one seems to have it out for you.

I got bg's back. I'll be riding shotgun with a shotgun.
nikatapi
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(09-11-2012, 08:38 PM)
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Just to take the discussion away from the console's hardware specs for a moment, do you think it will be possible to use the WiiU gamepad on PC?

Wiimote has found various uses connected to a PC, and i'm wondering if anyone knows what technology is used for the wireless data-image transmission.

Just imagine the possibilities...
Last edited by nikatapi; 09-11-2012 at 08:41 PM.
ScreenSplitter
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(09-11-2012, 08:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by nikatapi;41996291[B

]Just to take the discussion away from the specs for a moment,[/B] do you think it will be possible to use the WiiU gamepad on PC?

Wiimote has found various uses connected to a PC, and i'm wondering if anyone knows what technology is used for the wireless data-image transmission.

Just imagine the possibilities...

YES. And if it connects via Bluetooth or standard wireless, I'm sure somebody will find some way to hack it.
EricDiesel
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Berg

Will these work as external memory on the Wiiu?

I've got a whole bunch of empty 8gb thumb-drives i'd be pumped to be able to use.

Can't imagine why USB HDDs would work and thumb drives wouldn't, so most likely.
nordique
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

There is absolutely zero evidence that he knows anything. As far as I can tell he has never produced any actual information on this subject, he has merely repeated things he has seen and engaged in some silly speculation based on knowledge of PC components.

Why would I be surprised by what he knows? I've worked in console development and I know people working on the Wii U right now. (Before you ask I personally know nothing and if I did I wouldn't say) The type of "information" he is producing is not information anyone who had actual information would produce.

I've never worked in console development myself, so I can't say I understand that aspect as well as you would. But I also know a few people working on the Wii U (and like you I don't know anything beyond fluff which is why I've never once mentioned that before in the thread either) so I do understand how "tight-lipped" developers are about the specs...you'd be surprised because you are yourself assuming he knows absolutely nothing

you stated him being "laughable" and him not having "actual" information

but he has had discussion with a few devs who have had direct and indirect access to kits. If you have only recently been following these threads, it might seem like he has solely been speculating (that was the point of the WUSTs) but he has been speculating in addition to having some "legitimate" information

and since you seem to think he has no actual information, I think you might be surprised that he actually does

again, I don't think its wrong for you to question him and his sources, but you're being a little overly critical with him, because He hasn't been going around boasting to know things he doesn't know; he just tries to keep the tech chatter going
Last edited by nordique; 09-11-2012 at 08:44 PM.
ozfunghi
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(09-11-2012, 08:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

No. What you are seeing is not what Nintendo is giving devs. You really think Wii-U developers have this level of information and nothing more? That's completely laughable.

Let me ask you a couple questions straight up:

1. Do you have a Wii U dev kit?

2. Are you licensed Nintendo developer?

3. Are you a licensed developer for any console?

I suspect the answer to all three is no. You don't seem to have any idea of how console development works, like at all.

An actual dev does not just know what the chip has "enhanced Broadway", they know how much cache it has, the exact instruction set, and exactly what that means. It would be impossible to make games otherwise. This information, if real, is most likely what you see if you have a Warioware login but aren't a licensed Wii-U developer. The idea that this is all that actual Wii-U devs know is just beyond inane.

At best you are a licensed Nintendo dev without Wii-U privileges, but even that seems highly unlikely given that in that case you would have leaked this info yourself.

How can we take you seriously? You don't even have an avatar.

Carry on.
The_Lump
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by nikatapi

Just to take the discussion away from the specs for a moment, do you think it will be possible to use the WiiU gamepad on PC?

Wiimote has found various uses connected to a PC, and i'm wondering if anyone knows what technology is used for the wireless data-image transmission.

Just imagine the possibilities...

Someone will make it possible. Just like with wiimotes and Kinect

Nintendo use their own proprietary wifi signal (ni-fi?) Fyi.
Zoramon089
Banned
(09-11-2012, 08:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by The_Lump

From Wiki: "GPGPU support (DirectCompute), and Direct3D11 with tessellation support[34][35] and improved multi-threading support to assist video game developers in developing games that better utilize multi-core processors."

Plus shader model 5.0 requires Direct3D11

Seems a bit weird they'd have a tessellation unit, a GPGPU and not just go all the way with shader model 5.0
D-e-f-
Banned
(09-11-2012, 08:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Jet Jaguar

[...]
Fast forward to E3

Geoff: "We don't feel like Animal Crossing is the type of game hardcore players dig. What about your online sys--"

Reggie: "--GEOFF!"
[...]

had me laughing like an idiot just now :D
Discomurf
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by nordique

source?


Margalis
Banned
(09-11-2012, 08:45 PM)

Originally Posted by Smiles and Cries

The guy has helped keep WiiU threads alive for over a year now the bits of info BG gives has made for thousands of pages of good times for fans waiting on info and we all know this is what being on GAF is about - we are not all experts or connected but some of us are and BG is among the trusted

That's just it - he is not giving you bits of info. He is passing on what he reads on message boards and filling in some speculation.

Honestly I find it a little distasteful that they guy is basically purposely misleading people without the technical knowledge or experience to know better.

What actual information has he shared with you? That the Wii-U will heavily rely on compute shaders? That's his speculation based on leaks that it supports compute shaders in some form paired with rumors of a weakish CPU. From those two things it's tempting to conclude that the idea is for compute shaders to make up the difference, sure. Does he actually know that is the case? No. Absolutely not.

You guys are asking him stuff like "will ports from PS4 be possible" and "will Samaritan or UE4 run on this?" Wtf. The guy has never even done console development! How the hell does he know? Lol.

Is that PS4 game going to use compute shaders to implement a tiled forward rendering model? Well if the Wii-U compute shader support is not that good a port would require an engine rewrite. Is that the case? I have no idea and neither does bg. The idea that he can answer questions like those is absolutely crazy. You might as well just throw darts at a dart board.

Edit: For people saying he has real information: what is it?

Can someone make a clear and concise list of information bgassassin has provided that wasn't just taken from a message board? And I mean specific Wii-U information, not general PC component information.
Last edited by Margalis; 09-11-2012 at 08:49 PM.
ohlawd
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by ozfunghi

How can we take you seriously? You don't even have an avatar.

Carry on.

but wsippel doesn't have an avatar and we take him seriously :p
The_Lump
Member
(09-11-2012, 08:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zoramon089

Seems a bit weird they'd have a tessellation unit, a GPGPU and not just go all the way with shader model 5.0

Well yeah, that would be weird.
MadeInBeats
Banned
(09-11-2012, 08:47 PM)
With it being a custom API, who knows WTF it can do. Maybe it's waiting on future updates to release hardware features.
Shin Johnpv
Ninty Ninty Ninty
Ninty Ninty Ninty
(09-11-2012, 08:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by The_Lump

Well yeah, that would be weird.

AMD chips have had tessellators on them for awhile. The RV700 chip which was the 4XXX line had a tessellator on it. So it wouldn't be all that weird.

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