[ascii42]

The Cadillac ELR with Volt tech inside should be out in a year or two.

From what I've read the ELR will be next year.

They probably should have started with this. People are more willing to spend, say, $60k or so on a Cadillac than $40k on a Chevy. What I thought they should do was follow in the EV1's footsteps and call it a GM Volt, though that might be too much baggage. I understand why they did make it a Chevy though, and I do actually like the Chevy grille on the Volt.

[turnbuckle]

The Cadillac ELR with Volt tech inside should be out in a year or two.

Man, I would love that. I should start donating plasma now to save up

[dLMN8R]

Another problem with the Volt, and all plug ins for that matter, is unless you have a house with a garage it's kind of useless. I live in an apartment complex. Where the hell am I supposed charge it up? A large segment of the population won't even consider it because of that. I hope someone is planning on majorly expanding the footprint for charge stations or this will go nowhere.

Who has ever suggested that it's perfect for everyone? Obviously right now a plug-in hybrid isn't a practical choice for anyone who doesn't have an outlet or charge station accessible to them. That's not a problem with the Volt, it's a problem that our infrastructure has yet to solve.

[slit]

Who has ever suggested that it's perfect for everyone? Obviously right now a plug-in hybrid isn't a practical choice for anyone who doesn't have an outlet or charge station accessible to them. That's not a problem with the Volt, it's a problem that our infrastructure has yet to solve.

My point is, I don't think it will be a problem fixed anytime soon, but we'll see I guess.

[Takuan]

The Prius V is not a plug-in. Does Canada have any tax-credits for plug-in cars? The Ford C-Max Energi will be a plug-in that compares favorable to the Prius V.

That's true. In my mind, I had them bunched together as eco-friendly vehicles, but it should have been obvious that a hybrid is not in the same class as a plug-in car. Shows how little I know about this market.

I had to google for an answer to your question. It appears that the Ontario government does offer incentives ranging from $5000 to $8500 on electric vehicles. We had a similar initiative for hybrid vehicles, but that is no longer offered, unfortunately.

[Cat Party]

My dad has one of these. It is a rad car. Really nice to drive, really efficient in practice. He fills the tank about once every few months. But he didn't buy it because it would save him money. He bought it to make his own personal statement that he wanted to support this technology.

The Volt was never going to be a profitable car for GM. But it should lay the groundwork for future successes.

[Hari Seldon]

From what I've read the ELR will be next year. They probably should have started with this. People are more willing to spend, say, $60k or so on a Cadillac than $40k on a Chevy. What I thought they should do was follow in the EV1's footsteps and call it a GM Volt, though that might be too much baggage. I understand why they did make it a Chevy though, and I do actually like the Chevy grille on the Volt.

I agree. If you are paying luxury prices then it better be a luxury car if it is not going to have any performance at all to it (by design of course).

[ascii42]

My dad has one of these. It is a rad car. Really nice to drive, really efficient in practice. He fills the tank about once every few months. But he didn't buy it because it would save him money. He bought it to make his own personal statement that he wanted to support this technology. The Volt was never going to be a profitable car for GM. But it should lay the groundwork for future successes.

Yeah, for example, it's already laid the groundwork for the Cadillac ELR, which should be sold for a pretty good profit. I'm not sure what's next for it, but perhaps they could go against Tesla. They could also use their knowledge to make more conventional hybrids. Outside of their trucks, they don't really have any hybrid vehicles. Well, the E-Assist cars could be considered mild hybrids, but those aren't really conventional hybrids.

[speculawyer]

If the car runs just in EV mode, how many miles can you drive it before it needs a recharge? If the answer is 35, as stated in the OP, then it is not the future of electric vehicles. It's just a very good transitional hybrid, priced so high that it defeats the purpose of purchasing one (for many consumers in the states).

It was 35 but the new models improved it to 38. I thought pure electrics would do better. But the market has spoken and the market, at least for now, prefers plug-in hybrids. The Volt is kicking ass all over the Leaf & Mitsubishi-i. So the market disagrees with you.

It is impractical for a number of reasons, when taken together, that make the car a very unattractive product. If the price of the car were much cheaper, and the people purchasing it were provided some kind of incentive (like through subsidization) then it would be a more worthy purchase. Poor people like myself who complain about the price of gasoline cannot afford to shell out the down payment and make large monthly payments on this vehicle. There needs to be a reason to get it and that reason is that it will save money - not in the long run, 20 or 30 years, assuming this vehicle lasts that long - but an immediate savings.

It is actually extremely practical. Most driving trips are less than 40 miles Most people drive less than 80 miles a day. If you plug in at home and plug in at work, you can do the vast majority of your driving on electric and burn hardly any gas at all. But you never worry about running out of charge because you have gas as a back-up.

And the car does have a subsidy. A $7500 tax-credit. Some states give more. So the effect price is around $32.5K. And when you add in the cost savings of electricity driving instead of gas, that will save people $1K to $2K a year . . . and more as the price of gas goes up.


But . . . yeah, it is still expensive. These cars are not for poor people at this time. (Hopefully a used market will develop as people buy more of them.) I hope they can bring the price down. They are all working hard on it but it is not easy. But at least these cars put a ceiling on travel costs because if gas prices go up sharply, at least we know we have this option.


And if you don't mind leasing, there is a very attractive lease deal. And when you factor in the gasoline savings by driving on electricity, you'll be able to spend more on a monthy lease payment for a Volt (or other plug-in car).

[speculawyer]

Why? My commute is 14 miles a day both ways. I wouldn't ever use gasoline. I would love, love, love to have a Volt. Hopefully they make it cheaper and make charging stations more prevalent for those who don't own a home in the future.

A nice thing about the Volt is that since it is a plug-in hybrid with only a moderately sized battery, you can charge it up overnight with an ordinary 120V outlet.


But yeah . . . EVs pretty much only work for people with homes where they can charge. If you park on the street, EVs are not going to work for you. Of course if you park on the street, you are probably in a place where public transportation should be a decent option for you.

[ascii42]

A nice thing about the Volt is that since it is a plug-in hybrid with only a moderately sized battery, you can charge it up overnight with an ordinary 120V outlet. But yeah . . . EVs pretty much only work for people with homes where they can charge. If you park on the street, EVs are not going to work for you. Of course if you park on the street, you are probably in a place where public transportation should be a decent option for you.

Those of us in apartment complexes have the same issue. I'm reasonable certain that if I could actually plug one in somewhere, I'd have leased one by now. I'm normally against leasing, but it makes sense in the Volt's case.

[speculawyer]

Those of us in apartment complexes have the same issue. I'm reasonable certain that if I could actually plug one in somewhere, I'd have leased one by now. I'm normally against leasing, but it makes sense in the Volt's case.

Here is a dealer offering $199/month for a Volt lease.
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/08/28...ase-199-month/

Are there any outlets in the parking area? If so, you could ask the management if you could plug-in. Offer to pay for the electricity . . . it would be very small amount . . maybe $30/month. You could use a Kill-A-Watt thing to show them how little it ends up being.

[AstroNut325]

I absolutely hate Chevy. But wow I would love to own a Volt. Sooo much technology!

Maybe in a few years.

[ascii42]

Here is a dealer offering $199/month for a Volt lease. http://green.autoblog.com/2012/08/28...ase-199-month/ Are there any outlets in the parking area? If so, you could ask the management if you could plug-in. Offer to pay for the electricity . . . it would be very small amount . . maybe $30/month. You could use a Kill-A-Watt thing to show them how little it ends up being.

Unfortunately, there aren't, at least, not that I know of. It's about a 10 mile drive to work and back, so I'd really only need to charge a couple times per week. However, I'm happy with the car I wound up getting instead (Chevy Malibu). I've also been entertaining buying a house in the next year or so. Perhaps sortly thereafter, the next generation Volt may be in the cards. I love Cadillac, but I don't think I'll be able to swing an ELR any time soon. Well, not a new one.

[Buba Big Guns]

The Volt is a great car...it's packed with really cool and high tech shit. Add to that the fact that you will seldom have to fill up for everyday commute and minimal maintenance costs, it's a pretty damn good deal.

[AstroNut325]

The Volt is a great car...it's packed with really cool and high tech shit. Add to that the fact that you will seldom have to fill up for everyday commute and minimal maintenance costs, it's a pretty damn good deal.

Exactly... it's a great car in every way (I also love the way it looks). It's definitely going to be among the top contenders of my car shopping list when I enter the market in a few years.

[Zaptruder]

Dear too expensive crowd.

Work 2 jobs you lazy slobs.


Seriously though, it's too expensive for you... but then I imagine every 30-40k vehicle that you can't sell back for more (like a stolen Ferrari someone sells to you for 30-40k) are simply out of your price range.

For vehicles in that price range, it still has a pretty excellent feature list, including but not limited to great performance (because of the electric drive train).

Admittedly the styling is ass, but if it catches your eye, then who am I to argue?

[SMT]

Haven't seen a volt on the road yet.

[Wheeljack539]

Haven't seen a volt on the road yet.

In Los Angeles here I've seen a few Volts go by on the road near where I work however I've seen quite a few more Nissan Leafs in the same area as well as on the freeway and near home.

[chaosblade]

If I could afford one or something similar I'd definitely go for it. Would almost never need gas. But I'd think you would eventually want to burn your tank so the gas just sit there and settle/evaporate?

[dLMN8R]

If I could afford one or something similar I'd definitely go for it. Would almost never need gas. But I'd think you would eventually want to burn your tank so the gas just sit there and settle/evaporate?

The Volt will automatically burn off unused gas after about a year to prevent it from going stale.

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....tale-fuel-burn

[SMT]

In Los Angeles here I've seen a few Volts go by on the road near where I work however I've seen quite a few more Nissan Leafs in the same area as well as on the freeway and near home.

I've seen 6-7 Nissan Leafs in the Ottawa area. I want a Juke, but maybe I'll get a leaf instead.

[ascii42]

Dear too expensive crowd. Work 2 jobs you lazy slobs. Seriously though, it's too expensive for you... but then I imagine every 30-40k vehicle that you can't sell back for more (like a stolen Ferrari someone sells to you for 30-40k) are simply out of your price range. For vehicles in that price range, it still has a pretty excellent feature list, including but not limited to great performance (because of the electric drive train). Admittedly the styling is ass, but if it catches your eye, then who am I to argue?

It's designed to be extremely aerodynamic, much like the Prius. Between the Volt and the Prius, I'd take the Volt. Either way, I'm not one to argue that form should take precedence over function in vehicles like this. Also, I am actually in the crowd that likes the look, but I can understand those who don't.

If I could afford one or something similar I'd definitely go for it. Would almost never need gas. But I'd think you would eventually want to burn your tank so the gas just sit there and settle/evaporate?

In that case, a full electric vehicle like the Nissan Leaf might better suit you. It's around $7k cheaper than the Volt, possibly more if you can get additional tax credits for a full electric vehicle.

[Waaghals]

The Volt is an incredible piece of engineering.
However this means it very expensive to build, very complicated and very costly for the end consumer.

This without being a massive leap over for instance the Prius.

GM used it as a halo car to show what they were capable of. Chances are they never intended to actually mass produce it. Heck, the original concept looked nothing like the product, rumor has it it was more aerodynamic rear facing than in the front.

When they need a bailout the used the car as a proof that they had a business plan for the future - and, as a result, they had to build it.

[speculawyer]

I'll never really understand why people want the Volt to fail so badly. It just doesn't make any sense to me. My parents got a Volt earlier this year, and think it's one of the best cars they've ever owned. And my parents have had nice cars throughout the decades. When I was home last month, I had the pleasure of driving the Volt for around 200 miles total, and it was a pure joy. Yeah, the mileage was great, but what people don't realize is how incredibly well it drives too. Since the entire thing is powered by the electric motor - even when the gas engine kicks in to recharge it - the acceleration and responsiveness of the car is awesome. It's not a Tesla, of course, but it's also better than most every other gas-powered car I've ever driven too. My parents have the 220V charger, and on a full charge we could easily get 40 miles out of it before the gas engine kicked in. For my Mom, that was fine - she went 2-3 months without ever putting gas in the car, and it cost them around $30/month in electricity for the many many recharges they did throughout the month. Not bad at all. I also think it looks pretty cool, but looks are purely subjective. Most of the time, opinions on a car's looks seemed to be determined by preconceived notions about the quality of the car itself.

This is a good summary of the Volt.

And it is not as expensive as many think . . . $32.5K base price after the tax-credit. And there are lots of cheap lease offers. Yeah, that price is still a bit high but when you consider the gas savings over the life of the car, it is quite reasonable. And it is a great hedge on gas prices.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

And it is not as expensive as many think . . . $32.5K base price after the tax-credit. And there are lots of cheap lease offers. Yeah, that price is still a bit high but when you consider the gas savings over the life of the car, it is quite reasonable. And it is a great hedge on gas prices.

Define "cheap lease offers"

[AstroNut325]

Haven't seen a volt on the road yet.

I see them all the time. Several people at my company own Volts.

[speculawyer]

The Volt is an incredible piece of engineering. However this means it very expensive to build, very complicated and very costly for the end consumer. This without being a massive leap over for instance the Prius. GM used it as a halo car to show what they were capable of. Chances are they never intended to actually mass produce it. Heck, the original concept looked nothing like the product, rumor has it it was more aerodynamic rear facing than in the front. When they need a bailout the used the car as a proof that they had a business plan for the future - and, as a result, they had to build it.

That is complete bullshit. That is true for Chrysler. And the Ford Focus is an over-priced out-sourced after-thought. But the Volt is a real effort. During the bail-outs, it was the receivers wanted to kill the Volt and it was the GM people that insisted on keeping it because it was part of the long term strategic plan.

So the truth is more of the opposite. The Voltec based Caddy seen above is showing you how the technology is working its way into more models. And it will continue that way due to CAFE requirements and rising gas prices that will make it something the consumers demand.

[speculawyer]

Define "cheap lease offers"

I'm not a lease type of guy so I don't know the lease prices. But this article mentions a $199/month offer and $260/month offer:
http://green.autoblog.com/2012/08/28...ase-199-month/

And when you run the numbers, you need to add in the fact that you'll be saving $100+ in gasoline costs per month. So I think that makes it on par with other cars on a monthly lease payment.

For example, here is Chevy's own Malibu offered at $219/month for lease:
http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu-mid-size-sedan.html

When you consider the gasoline savings, even paying $299/month for Volt would be comparable on a monthly basis.

[dLMN8R]

Those leases are ridiculous, wow. And for a car like this, it would be ideal since the tech is still advancing so quick - buying a car would be a quick path to obsolescence and a difficult sale down the road.

But yeah, someone else mentioned that buying a Volt isn't necessarily a pure financial decision here. In the long run, the money saved on gas might not pay for the increased price of the car depending on your driving habits. But without cars like this, the Leaf, and others, we'll never get out of these doldrums of gasoline dependence.

Technology progresses gradually. We're not going to go from all-gas to incredibly efficient electric in one go. Cars like the Volt are exactly what we need to make that gradual progress.


That's why it's so disheartening to see people here who just seem to want nothing but for the car to fail. I'll never understand it. If it was a bad car, then by all means it should be judged on its merits, but the Volt is anything but.

[Rentahamster]

Family member has a miev. I likes it.

The Volt is a bit "meh" to me, though.

[ascii42]

I'm not a lease type of guy so I don't know the lease prices. But this article mentions a $199/month offer and $260/month offer: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/08/28...ase-199-month/ And when you run the numbers, you need to add in the fact that you'll be saving $100+ in gasoline costs per month. So I think that makes it on par with other cars on a monthly lease payment. For example, here is Chevy's own Malibu offered at $219/month for lease: http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu-mid-size-sedan.html When you consider the gasoline savings, even paying $299/month for Volt would be comparable on a monthly basis.

When it comes to leases, you also have to consider the down payment. They often try to hide a bunch of the overall payment in there to create lower monthly payments for advertising. The Malibu requires $1999, whereas the $199/month Volt deal requires $2999 and the $260/month requires $2529.

[ameratsu]

People who buy cars like fridges aren't going to drop $40k on an appliance when they will never recoup the extra upfront cost. It's like asking people to pay 599 us dollars for a launch ps3, some will go for it, but most people will avoid it until they can justify the cost. That doesn't make it a bad car or a waste of money though.

[dLMN8R]

People who buy cars like fridges aren't going to drop $40k on an appliance when they will never recoup the extra upfront cost. It's like asking people to pay 599 us dollars for a launch ps3, some will go for it, but most people will avoid it until they can justify the cost. That doesn't make it a bad car or a waste of money though.

I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise.

[speculawyer]

When it comes to leases, you also have to consider the down payment. They often try to hide a bunch of the overall payment in there to create lower monthly payments for advertising. The Malibu requires $1999, whereas the $199/month Volt deal requires $2999 and the $260/month requires $2529.

The $199/month lease also limits mileage at 10K/year and that would stop a lot of people.

But on those down-payment prices . . . yeah that is a bit more, but you also need to figure in the gasoline savings for the Volt. If you charge up every night and don't have a long commute, you'll save a LOT of money on gas.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm not a lease type of guy so I don't know the lease prices. But this article mentions a $199/month offer and $260/month offer: http://green.autoblog.com/2012/08/28...ase-199-month/ And when you run the numbers, you need to add in the fact that you'll be saving $100+ in gasoline costs per month. So I think that makes it on par with other cars on a monthly lease payment. For example, here is Chevy's own Malibu offered at $219/month for lease: http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu-mid-size-sedan.html When you consider the gasoline savings, even paying $299/month for Volt would be comparable on a monthly basis.

There is no way 199 is possible without some insanely long lease and other factors.
Such as

There are limits to this new deal, of course, including that you need to have approved credit and can only drive 10,000 miles a year (think of it as a different kind of range anxiety).

What the hell is the point if you can only go 10K a year? I want to make use of that gas mileage and savings.

Let's not forget he down payment too. I mean you can barely drive the thing and a huge down payment. The 199 is more an accounting trick.

Heck, I have the Chevy Cruze (which is like the Malibu) and it took really excellent credit and a 36 month lease to get around $225. The irony is we need to trade it in early 2013 (after only around half way through) because we'd horribly go over the total mileage amount if we waited the whole time. I'd love a great mileage car, but not with those restraints.

[Waaghals]

That is complete bullshit. That is true for Chrysler. And the Ford Focus is an over-priced out-sourced after-thought. But the Volt is a real effort. During the bail-outs, it was the receivers wanted to kill the Volt and it was the GM people that insisted on keeping it because it was part of the long term strategic plan. So the truth is more of the opposite. The Voltec based Caddy seen above is showing you how the technology is working its way into more models. And it will continue that way due to CAFE requirements and rising gas prices that will make it something the consumers demand.

Fair enough. I do maintain that the system is very complicated and that the car was announced long before they had anything tangible. I agree that Ford and Chrysler are phoning it in by comparison.

I don't doubt that the tech is making it's way in to other cars on a TBA basis, GM pretty much has to at this point.

I just suspect that the Volt tech was used to signal that GM was taking charge of the fuel efficiency situation rather than "me-toing" Toyota's hybrid approach, and I'm not convinced that was a good idea.

[speculawyer]

Fair enough. I do maintain that the system is very complicated and that the car was announced long before they had anything tangible. I agree that Ford and Chrysler are phoning it in by comparison. I don't doubt that the tech is making it's way in to other cars on a TBA basis, GM pretty much has to at this point. I just suspect that the Volt tech was used to signal that GM was taking charge of the fuel efficiency situation rather than "me-toing" Toyota's hybrid approach, and I'm not convinced that was a good idea.

It is very complicated and that is something I don't like about it. 3 clutches!

The Volt leap-frog may have been a leap a bit too far. But Ford has announced the C-Max Energi which is a really awesome plug-in hybrid . . . at least by the specs. That could be a real winner. Chrysler is hopeless.

[GungHo]

I see them all the time. Several people at my company own Volts.

We have a number of people here that own them. Considering where I work, I'm surprised we don't put them in a pillory.

[dLMN8R]

I'm pretty sure the lack of seeing Volts out in the wild is more of a factor of limited production and distribution so far. They haven't really started broadly advertising it outside of some targeted markets, like the Detroit metro area and such (where my parents live).

Just a month or two ago, Chevy had a bit event on Microsoft's campus here in Redmond where they had 10-15 Volts available for on-the-spot test drives. Seemed to be a lot of interest, and when I asked, they said that it was their first stop in a national tour. So at best, it seems like they're really only now starting that broader outreach.


Right now, the main problem is that people simply don't know much about the car, even if they're in a position to be able to afford it, and live in a house where they can easily recharge it. I have a feeling that if you're one of those people, test driving it would change your mind almost instantly. I know it did for me the first time I drove it.

Plus, the bullshit PR about them "exploding" didn't help much either. Basically, see: the first 1.5 pages of this thread.

[speculawyer]

I'm pretty sure the lack of seeing Volts out in the wild is more of a factor of limited production and distribution so far. They haven't really started broadly advertising it outside of some targeted markets, like the Detroit metro area and such (where my parents live). Just a month or two ago, Chevy had a bit event on Microsoft's campus here in Redmond where they had 10-15 Volts available for on-the-spot test drives. Seemed to be a lot of interest, and when I asked, they said that it was their first stop in a national tour. So at best, it seems like they're really only now starting that broader outreach.

I'm starting to see a some of them here in Silicon Valley. Many more Leafs though.

[duderon]

No it isn't. It is well under (about half) of their projected sales for 2012. http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...mpera-included The Volt is pretty much a viable vehicle only in California right now. Based on GM's own stated expectations, sales of the Volt are dismal.

I love that you've put the global sales goals in bold and are comparing them to US sales for half the year. They're going to come quite close to 35-40,000 this year globally, since the Volt's sister car, the Opel Ampera, is also selling well in Europe. A fourfold increase can never be declared a failure unless you have an agenda that forces you to deny facts.

[Scotch]

Good lord the Volt is ugly. Thankfully its European sister the Opel Ampera is pretty good-looking. I've seen it driving pretty regularly in the Netherlands, which is surprising since it's even more overpriced over here.

[ascii42]

Good lord the Volt is ugly. Thankfully its European sister the Opel Ampera is pretty good-looking. I've seen it driving pretty regularly in the Netherlands, which is surprising since it's even more overpriced over here.

It looks like a Volt whose mascara is running. Otherwise, they are pretty much identical.

What the hell is the point if you can only go 10K a year? I want to make use of that gas mileage and savings.

That's around what I average, I think. I drive around 10 miles per day during the week, with 180-250 mile trips to Florida every month or so.

If you drove 35 miles literally ever day in a year, that would be 12775 miles. 10k miles/year is on the low side, and as someone who used to drive more than twice that, I completely understand that there are people out there who do, but there are many people like me who could manage.

[fabricated backlash]

Personally I don't see e-cars to become anything more than a curiosity in automotive history.

It's a concept that will most likely never become a viable standard for various reasons:
Battery tech is nowhere near good enough to power a car or be comercially viable.
The amount of waste, and in turn environmental damages produced during the production and disposal of batteries negates the "eco" idea behind it.
Add to that the limited life expectence and massive price of replacement cells, and you have another problem for e-cars to become mass market products.

The e-car is probably going to be a dead end. Unless some more reliable cheap battery tech is developed, that can take fast charges and lasts far longer, the tech is just not viable at all.
It's an important experiment, but one that is destined to remain just that.

[duderon]

Personally I don't see e-cars to become anything more than a curiosity in automotive history. It's a concept that will most likely never become a viable standard for various reasons: Battery tech is nowhere near good enough to power a car or be comercially viable. The amount of waste, and in turn environmental damages produced during the production and disposal of batteries negates the "eco" idea behind it. Add to that the limited life expectence and massive price of replacement cells, and you have another problem for e-cars to become mass market products. The e-car is probably going to be a dead end. Unless some more reliable cheap battery tech is developed, that can take fast charges and lasts far longer, the tech is just not viable at all. It's an important experiment, but one that is destined to remain just that.

Battery technology is continually improving, as is fast charging. To say that EVs are a dead end is shortsighted, given that almost every major manufacturer has one in development. These technologies are just like all other technologies in that they will improve and they will cost less over time. This is only the beginning.

[speculawyer]

Personally I don't see e-cars to become anything more than a curiosity in automotive history.

You simply lack the ability to think long term. Oil is a finite commodity . . . eventually, it will no longer be economic to extract. What then?

Let's look at your reasons:

Battery tech is nowhere near good enough to power a car or be comercially viable.

Gee, that's odd. They are currently selling electric cars commercially right now. It appears you are wrong. Yes, the numbers are small, but as oil prices go up and battery prices come down, the market will shift.

The amount of waste, and in turn environmental damages produced during the production and disposal of batteries negates the "eco" idea behind it.

Here, you just don't know what you are talking about. You are thinking about Lead-Acid batteries and NiMH batteries. Modern EVs use largely non-toxic Li-Ion batteries. The CEO of BYD drank the electrolyte from his automotive Li-Ion as a publicity stunt to show how safe they are. The "mining" is very low impact digging up the ground from dried salt flats.

Add to that the limited life expectence and massive price of replacement cells, and you have another problem for e-cars to become mass market products.

The specific Li-Ion mixes they use in automobiles last a long time. The Volt's batteries have an 8-year/100K warranty. I trust GM's actuaries more than your uninformed view.

The e-car is probably going to be a dead end. Unless some more reliable cheap battery tech is developed, that can take fast charges and lasts far longer, the tech is just not viable at all.

You have not provided a very persuasive case. I recommend learning about a topic before making grand pronouncements about it. You literally have lived up to your name.

fabricated backlash
Member
(Today, 02:12 PM)

[ascii42]

Electric engines also have uses beyond battery electric vehicles. Fuel cell vehicles, for example, use electric engines. There hasn't been a whole lot of development in that area recently, but I believe fuel cell vehicles have a future.

And come on! You have to love that instant torque.

[Something Wicked]

Battery technology is continually improving, as is fast charging. To say that EVs are a dead end is shortsighted, given that almost every major manufacturer has one in development. These technologies are just like all other technologies in that they will improve and they will cost less over time. This is only the beginning.

I think you're overestimating future possible improvements in battery technology. You'll never see batteries having the same or close to having the same energy density of gasoline.

[RotBot]

GM executive blames the Republicans.

The level of owner satisfaction is extremely high. Quality and reliability is extremely high. But the downside is that the political extreme right has been distorting the facts of the Volt. The Volt passed the government crash tests with a five-star safety rating, and didn't roll over. But the testing protocol requires that even if the vehicle doesn't roll, it has to go through the rotisserie maneuver, which is five minutes on one side, five minutes on its back, five minutes on the other side, and then back on its wheels again. At some point during the rotisserie, some fluid leaked out, and three weeks later caused a short in the battery and the vehicle caught fire. I mean, how safe it that? Three weeks should give people adequate time to exit the vehicle. And what did all these right-wing commentators make of that? "Chevy Volts catch fire." All of them were talking about "yeah, they all catch fire. GM's gonna recall 'em. There's just another Obama-inspired program -- a misguided socialist automotive policy. And not only did they spend a lot of your hard-earned tax dollars creating this vehicle, but now they put a $7500 tax credit on it." Well, there are a couple of things wrong with all those statements. First of all, the Volt was my idea in 2006. We showed the first prototype at the Detroit Auto Show in 2007. Obama wasn't elected until late 2008, so Obama could not be the progenitor of the Chevy Volt. And what they also conveniently forget is that the $7500 tax credit for electric vehicles was enacted under the Bush administration .... And these people are supposed to be for American jobs? They did such reputational damage to the Volt that the demand dipped to a very low level. So GM did the right thing, which was to idle production for 5 weeks and lay off workers. So here are these right-wing pundits who are always talking about jobs, jobs, jobs. Actually through their irresponsible reporting on the Chevrolet Volt they managed to put American workers out of their jobs for five weeks! It annoys me to no end. ... As a conservative myself politically, it annoys me no end to see deliberate lying and misinformation coming out where they will trash an outstanding American product and do damage to American employment just to get at Obama. That's just plain unethical.