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Vamphuntr
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:20 PM)
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The Vita is continuing the PS3 tradition of removing features as it ages :S

Wiping out people save files is not cool Sony.
randomkid
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:22 PM)
This thread is gross. Being locked out of saves is completely unacceptable.
Kagari
Please understand.
(08-28-2012, 05:28 PM)
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Ugh. Wish I would have known that sooner.

What if you have multiple cards? I have a spare 4GB laying around.
KalBalboa
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kagari

Ugh. Wish I would have known that sooner.

What if you have multiple cards? I have a spare 4GB laying around.

I think you can do one account per card, but that's going off assumptions I've read here.
Last edited by KalBalboa; 08-28-2012 at 05:31 PM.
enzo_gt
tagged by Blackace
(08-28-2012, 05:31 PM)
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As if Memory Cards already weren't fucking over the Vita so much, now there's this too?

It's almost like they're deliberately trying to fuck over the Vita themselves. They really are not catering to the consumer at all.
KalBalboa
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by enzo_gt

As if Memory Cards already weren't fucking over the Vita so much, now there's this too?

It's almost like they're deliberately trying to fuck over the Vita themselves. They really are not catering to the consumer at all.

Have you considered they might be trying to prevent game sharing, especially with Cross-Buy springing up?
DR2K
Banned
(08-28-2012, 05:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by KalBalboa

Have you considered they might be trying to prevent game sharing, especially with Cross-Buy springing up?

Makes sense, from the same company that allows game sharing on PS3.
KalBalboa
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by DR2K

Makes sense, from the same company that allows game sharing on PS3.

They cut down on that too, significantly. 5 shares became 2.
AgentP
Banned
(08-28-2012, 05:40 PM)
This is going to effect a very small number of people, but hey it is something negative about the Vita so the thread will have thousands of comments. Sorry to those who actually have a vita and more than one account on a card.
sajj316
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by KalBalboa

They cut down on that too, significantly. 5 shares became 2.

That and they were already too far down the rabbit hole to completely change it. If they're going to change it, starting with the Vita is the right place to start. I doubt there will be any game sharing on PS4.

EDIT: I will say that this is something that should have been "closed" from the start.
Last edited by sajj316; 08-28-2012 at 05:43 PM.
Anticitizen One
Banned
(08-28-2012, 05:42 PM)
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Everything Sony is doing is bad I want you to know this
tborsje
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:47 PM)
I think it's hilarious that the "obvious proof" that account switching was a loophole that could/should be patched by Sony is: a Sony document that doesn't even mention if a memory card can or cannot have more than a single account, and a fucking Wired article. But whatever, I'll make sure that I'm reading Wired thoroughly before I buy my next console so I'm up to date on when my Wipeout save (and permissions for the HD\Fury DLC) will be locked out.

Originally Posted by pieatorium

How does any region locking help anyone? Oh right overcharging everyone outside of the US.

Yep, pretty much. When I got my Vita I wanted to get Person 3 Portable and Corpse Party. If I remember correctly, together they were $70 on the Australian store and $40 on the US store. I've had a US account that I've used on my PS3 for years - guess what account I chose to use for buying PSP games on my Vita?

I wonder how many of the people backing Sony over this are from the US?

Originally Posted by Pie and Beans

More than anything else, ever since Sony became internet enemy #1 somehow, I feel the lesson they're going to come out of this gen with is "we were too generous" with things like OtherOS, region free, game sharing, etc, because of that horrible little contingent of gamers that find a way to fuck it all for the rest of us.

The nuclear hot shitstorms that emerge whenever Sony does stuff like this though is due to the taking of something good away. You just dont see this fire thrown at Microsoft or Nintendo for continuing their own anti-consumer bullshit.

No, the lesson will be "do not give them anything at all from the start", and I guess as a business that makes sense.

Sad that we lose out on cool things as a result though, and people lose save files and the like.

Or they could, you know, create an open platform and then not progressively take things away at all. Sony was not forced to do this. Hell, they weren't even forced to remove OtherOS (None of the exploits that have caused piracy on the PS3 have anything to do with Geohot's OtherOS trick - they were a USB driver exploit and a security weakness that was probably found using a NAND/NOR flasher).

And what "horrible little contingent of gamers" was exploiting account switching? Me, because I didn't want to pay twice as much as people in America? Sorry for being a rational consumer.

Originally Posted by DidntKnowJack

I AM SO OUTRAGED!

No, I'm really not. I thought this thread was going to be about your system locking up because of the new firmware, but no it's just people freaking out over nothing again.

Thanks buddy :(
ExitPlanetDust
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:50 PM)
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Ok ok ok... This has to be some kind of Brewster's Millions senario, right? I mean... someone must have promised the heads at Sony money beyond their wildest dreams or maybe a whole planet if they can bury the company within a decade.
Last edited by ExitPlanetDust; 08-28-2012 at 06:12 PM.
KalBalboa
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Anticitizen One

Everything Sony is doing is bad I want you to know this

OldJadedGamer
Banned
(08-28-2012, 05:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by KalBalboa

They cut down on that too, significantly. 5 shares became 2.

Another instance btw of removing/discounting features as the system ages.
Speedymanic
Banned
(08-28-2012, 05:56 PM)
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That's pretty shitty of Sony. :/

Fortunately, I have three memory cards so it won't affect me too much, but it's damn annoying and I think indicative of what Sony will be doing with the PS4. :(
teiresias
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:56 PM)
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Losing data is unacceptable, period, though I'm fairly indifferent to the ramifications concerning multiple accounts as I don't do that.

I'm more interested in how effectively blocking VHBL does nothing but embolden hackers to move into actual hacking of Vita itself rather than staying siloed in the PSP emulator.

I really think Sony has the worst short term corporate memory of any company I can think of if they don't see what this kind of behavior can breed in the hacking community.
KalBalboa
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by OldJadedGamer

Another instance btw of removing/discounting features as the system ages.

It was for a pretty good reason. I mean, who owned 5 PS3s? Seriously? It was to cut down on game-sharing, and you can still copy games onto two PS3s and two portables now.

I'll get labeled an apologist or fanboy for that, I'm sure, but it's still a sweet deal.



Originally Posted by teiresias

I'm more interested in how effectively blocking VHBL does nothing but embolden hackers to move into actual hacking of Vita itself rather than staying siloed in the PSP emulator.

I'm pondering this, too.
pharmboy044
Member
(08-28-2012, 05:59 PM)

Originally Posted by Anticitizen One

Everything Sony is doing is bad I want you to know this

I'm guessing this is sarcastic but if not then Cross Buy says hello.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
(08-28-2012, 06:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by AgentP

This is going to effect a very small number of people, but hey it is something negative about the Vita so the thread will have thousands of comments. Sorry to those who actually have a vita and more than one account on a card.

Don't play the victim. People have stong opinions about some issues regardless of how many people it affects. Case in point:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483071
Vinnk
Member
(08-28-2012, 06:04 PM)
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If all the people complaining here are just 1% of the Vita buyers...

then Vita sold more than I thought.












Region locking sucks.
kdoll08
Junior Member
(08-28-2012, 06:05 PM)
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Has anyone tried using a friends non updated vita yet to see if you can save the data? I get the feeling that this will not work because of the card being tied to the vita system which means we are all screwed with nothing they can really do to help at this point. I just lost a hits shots save with over 200 hours on it that I use every day. I actually had trouble getting to sleep last night I was so angry about it.
Fafalada
Fafracer forever
(08-28-2012, 06:08 PM)

Originally Posted by tborsje

And what "horrible little contingent of gamers" was exploiting account switching? Me, because I didn't want to pay twice as much as people in America?

Why not just use US account for Vita exclusively in that case (account switching was horribly inconvenient, personally I never found it useful other then a curiosity)? I mean ultimately region-locked stores are the real problem here, and everyone does That (except Steam I think).
Phife Dawg
Member
(08-28-2012, 06:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by SmokyDave

Well, it allows you to import and play carts, I assume that is the point. The digital side hasn't caught up with the physical. This is the same with all digital stores unfortunately. You're free to make a corresponding account but the fact that you can't legitimately access the content through your own marketplace and the necessity of providing fake credentials to open another account really should tip you off that you're bending (not breaking) the rules. If you're using a loophole, there's always a chance it will be closed.

We don't get the full experience on retail anymore though. Without an account you're locked out of DLC. Also how does PSV handle updates? Is it possible to update a JP retail card with an EU account for instance?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(08-28-2012, 06:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Theonik

I have all my PlayStation One games on my US account... I guess that's that then!
Fuck you Sony.

I don't think you lose access. You lose data like saves from doing account swapping.

Originally Posted by KalBalboa

Just to clarify, the update doesn't "lock cards" then, right? The issue here is alt accounts losing save data without warning after updating.

Yes.

And those who mentioned how unclear it was that Sony didn't really endorse this account swapping- if it was something they would advocate or allow, why woukd it he so tricky to set it up? That's the main reason I haven't even bothered to get stuff from other regions.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(08-28-2012, 06:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kagari

Ugh. Wish I would have known that sooner.

What if you have multiple cards? I have a spare 4GB laying around.

Should be fine, there is no way for the vita to know.

Card 1, log in with US account, connect to ps3, copy US games across.
Card 2, reset, login with JPN account, connect to ps3, copy JPN games across.

Then just switch as normal
Auron_Kale
Santalope
(08-28-2012, 06:36 PM)
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This definitely does suck for the consumer and I really am despising that region locking (even though this seems more readily circumvented versus the 3DS) should exist for a handheld.

In my case, I have two cards but now that I've been regularly using content on my US account versus my JP one, I'm okay with being locked to my card but that doesn't I wouldn't like to have a choice in the matter really. Especially when I have Brave Fencer Musashi, Einhander & Ergheiz on my JP account while these games will never show on my US account and would love to play them.

Guess I could always get another card really... but again this is a horrible solution.
Jucksalbe
Member
(08-28-2012, 06:50 PM)
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At least this thread taught me that I must be a Sony hater when I'm one of the few to actually buy their handheld. I bought it out of all the contempt I have for them.
With all the people blaming the victims here, I wonder what PoliGaf is like.
OTIX
Member
(08-28-2012, 06:57 PM)
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Wait a minute, people have actually lost saves? What the FUCK?

This didn't seem like such a big deal at first, cracking down on region locking is sad but pretty much par for the course these days. But knowingly locking people out of their saves without warning? Jesus, that's just fucking pure evil.
RockmanWhore
Member
(08-28-2012, 06:59 PM)
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It's for our own good guys, these kind of decision hurts Sony more than it hurts us.
xJavonta
Member
(08-28-2012, 07:04 PM)
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This is just stupid, I hope they shoot themselves in the foot doing this. They obviously haven't learned from any of their previous mistakes that screwing over your customers doesn't pay off.
iammeiam
Member
(08-28-2012, 07:04 PM)
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So let's pretend the lock actually serves a purpose of some kind, and Sony somehow benefits from marrying cards to accounts in a substantial way that helps the platform.

Let us further pretend that having the updater flash a warning prior to starting the upgrade process would have been prohibitively expensive/too confusing for single-account users.

So pretending Sony needed to do this, and couldn't warn you during the upgrade process, what's the logic for apparently not including it in patch notes? They knew some small amount of people were account-swapping, they implemented a system to prevent them from doing it, what's the justification for not warning people they'd lose their saves? "Punishing" them for exploiting the loophole?

Trying to figure out the secrecy angle in a way that doesn't amount to "LOL Sony are dicks" is proving difficult.
br0ken_shad0w
Member
(08-28-2012, 07:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Orin GA

Nobody ever seems to care about the 1% until they become the 1%. I feel for you guys.

Yup.

I had no intention of buying the Vita, but fuck any attempts at region locking.
Baconsammy
Banned
(08-28-2012, 07:16 PM)

Originally Posted by xJavonta

This is just stupid, I hope they shoot themselves in the foot doing this. They obviously haven't learned from any of their previous mistakes that screwing over your customers doesn't pay off.

That shot would most likely just go through one of the other holes. Thank you. Thank you very much.
KalBalboa
Member
(08-28-2012, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Baconsammy

That shot would most likely just go through one of the other holes. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Theonik
Member
(08-28-2012, 07:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by LiquidMetal14

I don't think you lose access. You lose data like saves from doing account swapping.

Essentially I lose the ability to play them unless I either want to wipe my saves every time I want to play them or purchase a second memory card for the sole purpose of playing them. Doing this without previous warning is a rather unnecessarily underhanded way of treating your consumers. Furthermore we are also inflicted to a rather awful back-up mechanic for saves because of those "concerns of piracy" which only amplifies the issue.
R_thanatos
Member
(08-28-2012, 07:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by br0ken_shad0w

Yup.

I had no intention of buying the Vita, but fuck any attempts at region locking.

Like i said.

You retail games works fine
You can still switch regions
None of the content you had on your psn accounts are gone.

Where is the lock again ?
Last edited by R_thanatos; 08-28-2012 at 07:57 PM.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
(08-28-2012, 07:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Theonik

Essentially I lose the ability to play them unless I either want to wipe my saves every time I want to play them or purchase a second memory card for the sole purpose of playing them. Doing this without previous warning is a rather unnecessarily underhanded way of treating your consumers. Furthermore we are also inflicted to a rather awful back-up mechanic for saves because of those "concerns of piracy" which only amplifies the issue.

The PS3 has open memory, region free, multiple accounts, game sharing... and stands as one of if not the least pirated console ever made.
Nemo
Will Eat Your Children
(08-28-2012, 07:53 PM)
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Jesus, haven't touched my vita since mgs2 and was just planning on updating

Now I dunno anymore
Kyon
Banned
(08-28-2012, 07:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by KalBalboa

Have you considered they might be trying to prevent game sharing, especially with Cross-Buy springing up?

That actually makes sense... Never thought about that.

Anyway I have to buy a new card cause I'm gonna start importing lots of games.
Respawn
Member
(08-28-2012, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by StoppedInTracks

Walled garden approach. I can imagine PS4 will be fucking fortified :(

Can you blame them? Then again it was there screw up that caused it.
sajj316
Member
(08-28-2012, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by OldJadedGamer

The PS3 has open memory, region free, multiple accounts, game sharing... and stands as one of if not the least pirated console ever made.

Hope you didn't forget at what lengths Sony went to undercut progression on the custom firmware front.
Maybe someone can tweet the reactions to Yoshida (yosp)? I mean, it's not very detrimental to normal players but for those who play a lot, probably would be.
Jucksalbe
Member
(08-28-2012, 08:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by R_thanatos

Where is the lock again ?

There is a huge difference between the possibility to switch accounts and the practicality of doing so. And that gap just got a lot bigger.
Theonik
Member
(08-28-2012, 08:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by OldJadedGamer

The PS3 has open memory, region free, multiple accounts, game sharing... and stands as one of if not the least pirated console ever made.

Which makes this even more frustrating.
hateradio
The Most Dangerous Yes Man
(08-28-2012, 09:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by sajj316

Hope you didn't forget at what lengths Sony went to undercut progression on the custom firmware front.

That's besides the point. Curtailing piracy is great, but it didn't hinder consumers, or erase their saves.

Although Linux was sacrificed. ;;
iNvid02
Member
(08-28-2012, 09:05 PM)
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was afraid of this, thats why i never bought one. deal breaker.

good luck vita
Satchel
Banned
(08-28-2012, 09:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Akainu

The price is fine.

Not in Australia and most other countries outside US and Japan it isn't.
Syriel
Member
(08-28-2012, 09:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Fafalada

Why not just use US account for Vita exclusively in that case (account switching was horribly inconvenient, personally I never found it useful other then a curiosity)? I mean ultimately region-locked stores are the real problem here, and everyone does That (except Steam I think).

Steam is most certainly region locked.

And if you work around it, Steam will simply revoke your games.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
(08-28-2012, 09:17 PM)
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Oh Sony. SMH.

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