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Caesnd
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(09-15-2012, 09:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jexhius

[Eureka Seven: Ao] - 20

I don't even know or care anymore. I can't even bring myself to complain about the events that unfolded in this episode.

I'm just going to settle for reading reactions, watching old shows and wait for the new season.
Dresden
on the run
(09-15-2012, 10:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Caesnd

I'm just going to settle for reading reactions, watching old shows and wait for the new season.

i'll just stare at this gif

and reminisce
fertygo
Member
(09-15-2012, 10:01 AM)

Originally Posted by Jexhius

I think it really goes downhill as soon as Moon-tits appears. Sorry to use crude language, but that's basically who she is.

I hope you don't mean the pink rangers since she carrying this show from mediocrity since the director change even with that the anime feel need to destroy it in last 2 episode.
Last edited by fertygo; 09-15-2012 at 10:07 AM.
Caesnd
Member
(09-15-2012, 10:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dresden

i'll just stare at this gif

and reminisce

Yoshidas sketches on his diary are the best thing to come out of AO

cajunator
AnimeGAF's largest consumer of cute
(09-15-2012, 10:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by TurkishEmperor

Angel Beats 3

Its okay.

I really think that show isnt as bad as some people would have you believe.
I mean yeah it has some major production issues and some bad writing, but its still a fun watch and does honestly tug at the heartstrings a bit. The music is also fantastic. Plus yui is really cute.
fertygo
Member
(09-15-2012, 10:06 AM)

Originally Posted by cajunator

I really think that show isnt as bad as some people would have you believe.
I mean yeah it has some major production issues and some bad writing, but its still a fun watch and does honestly tug at the heartstrings a bit. The music is also fantastic. Plus yui is really cute.

But its not fun at all.

The "joke" make me angry than laugh.
PdotMichael
AnimeGAF's largest consumer of moe
(09-15-2012, 10:16 AM)

dat mini Watashi. The extras are pretty awesome of the Jinrui BD. It will also have a PV for the "Aura: Maryūinkōga Saigo no Tatakai" movie based on another light novel of Romeo Tanaka.

http://blog.livedoor.jp/geek/archives/51360031.html (the website has NSFW content)

The 2008 school romantic comedy novel revolves around Ichirō "Menzu" Satō, a high school freshman who forgets his textbook at school one day. Ichirō encounters a beautiful girl while sneaking back into his school in the dead of night. The girl calls herself a witch from a parallel world. Ichirō used to suffer delusions of grandeur like this, but vowed to stop so that he can successfully re-invent himself as a freshman in high school.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ially-unveiled

I hear only good things about the LN.
Last edited by PdotMichael; 09-15-2012 at 10:18 AM.
Branduil
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(09-15-2012, 10:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jexhius

[Eureka Seven: Ao] - 20

I don't even know or care anymore. I can't even bring myself to complain about the events that unfolded in this episode.

B O N E S
Thoraxes
Member
(09-15-2012, 10:23 AM)
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Moyashimon - 01

Awesome OP. Awesome first episode. I laughed.

Let's do this. Dat leather.

Dresden
on the run
(09-15-2012, 10:26 AM)
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muv luv alternative: total eclipse - 03

so I was like, fuck the world, I'm skipping the first two because I can.

I got used to the cg robots once I realized that when they're not cg, they look even worse. The action is bad--there's a severe disconnect between what it wants to be (awesome fast paced mecha combat!) and what it is (a cutscene out of a ps2 game).

Not that robots need to make sense, but having a third arm jut out like that for additional fire support is a nice touch. It reminds me of the Saberhagen novels I used to read as a kid. Mecha fights tend to approximate human combat too much, and while I don't have a problem with it, it's nice to see something that veers away from that mold a bit, even if it never goes all the way in. Stuff like cockpit view (which is a carryover/tribute from the games judging by a few of the screens I've seen of it) and the way that the pilots are inserted into the machines are a plus as well.

Only positive thing I can say about the character designs overall is that at least it's not as bad as the VN's. It's just an ugly show all around.

Still, I enjoyed it, at least the stuff that happened near the end. The caramaderie they build is amusing and plausible, and Yuuya (when not interacting with the Japanese girl) is a surprisingly open protagonist. I don't have good vibes about what's coming next, but for now, I'll check out the next episode.

And as bitchy as Chobi can be, you guys were right: the Gurkha girl is cute.

duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(09-15-2012, 10:29 AM)
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Code Geass Akito the Exiled looks pretty good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NWe4YU8Eas
Branduil
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(09-15-2012, 10:32 AM)
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I'm still not happy about how even Sunrise can't give us hand-drawn mecha any more.
duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(09-15-2012, 10:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Branduil

I'm still not happy about how even Sunrise can't give us hand-drawn mecha any more.

That's not the reason though.
fertygo
Member
(09-15-2012, 10:34 AM)

Originally Posted by Branduil

I'm still not happy about how even Sunrise can't give us hand-drawn mecha any more.

There is Unicorn.

The CGs pretty cool though.
cajunator
AnimeGAF's largest consumer of cute
(09-15-2012, 10:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by fertygo

But its not fun at all.

The "joke" make me angry than laugh.

I disagree. Angel Beats seemed pretty fun at times. Especially during the girls Dead monster concert stuff and some fighting scenes. I guess we just find different things to be entertaining.

Originally Posted by duckroll

Code Geass Akito the Exiled looks pretty good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NWe4YU8Eas

ALL OVER MY SPINZAKU
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
(09-15-2012, 10:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dresden

muv luv alternative: total eclipse - 03

so I was like, fuck the world, I'm skipping the first two because I can.

Boooo. All you really need to know about them though is that all of Yui(Japanese girl)'s friends got owned, and then she had to watch as one of them was eaten alive by the BETA because Yui was too chicken to put her out of her misery. In other words, Yui is really fucking damaged by the start of episode 3.

This is important to know because it factors into pretty much everything she does.
Dresden
on the run
(09-15-2012, 10:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by KO Traveling Hobo

Boooo. All you really need to know about them though is that all of Yui(Japanese girl)'s friends got owned, and then she had to watch as one of them was eaten alive by the BETA because Yui was too chicken to put her out of her misery. In other words, Yui is really fucking damaged by the start of episode 3.

This is important to know because it factors into pretty much everything she does.

Good to know, thanks.
Canis lupus
Junior Member
(09-15-2012, 10:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by cajunator

I really think that show isnt as bad as some people would have you believe.
I mean yeah it has some major production issues and some bad writing, but its still a fun watch and does honestly tug at the heartstrings a bit. The music is also fantastic. Plus yui is really cute.

Its too early to tell right now. :P
Jexhius
In every age, in every place,
the deeds of men remain
the same
(09-15-2012, 10:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dresden

i'll just stare at this gif

and reminisce

What's funny, or rather, not funny at all is that Eureka Seven: Ao can't even get fanservice right. At the very least you'd think this show would have some sweet mecha action. I mean, they've had two Niravash's in the show for ages and the obvious thing to do is have them fight each other. Yet they haven't even done that yet!
duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(09-15-2012, 10:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jexhius

What's funny, or rather, not funny at all is that Eureka Seven: Ao can't even get fanservice right. At the very least you'd think this show would have some sweet mecha action. I mean, they've had two Niravash's in the show for ages and the obvious thing to do is have them fight each other. Yet they haven't even done that yet!

They got it right in ep2.

....

.........

:(
fertygo
Member
(09-15-2012, 10:48 AM)

Originally Posted by cajunator

I disagree. Angel Beats seemed pretty fun at times. Especially during the girls Dead monster concert stuff and some fighting scenes. I guess we just find different things to be entertaining.

How you enjoy something that just throwed at you? jokes, melodrama, marriage plan, fighting. that all shifted between 6 minute in AB.. God, just remember it piss me off.

And I'm sure I'm not picky at all for anime, I still can watch pokemon.
wonzo
Ascending the eternal
spiritual elevator
(09-15-2012, 10:48 AM)
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Ginga e Kickoff!! 17

:firehawk overload ;_;
DiGiKerot
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(09-15-2012, 10:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Branduil

I'm still not happy about how even Sunrise can't give us hand-drawn mecha any more.

Accel World? Kind of.

Sunrise is a big (set of) studios, though, so it's going to depend entirely on what staff a particular show gets as well as other factors. I mean, in Akito, isn't the CG use mostly down to how ludicrously complicated the mechanical designs are? Admittedly, that might be a good argument for simplifying your animation designs, but to run with what they have, you'd probably need the staff and production timeline of a Redline to be able to manage that by hand...
Branduil
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(09-15-2012, 10:49 AM)
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One of these days someone is going to have to ask BONES how they so consistently misunderstand the appeal of their properties.
Thoraxes
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(09-15-2012, 10:50 AM)
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Moyashimon - 02

DAMN YOU FRUCTIVORAN BASTARDS

Last edited by Thoraxes; 09-15-2012 at 10:57 AM.
DiGiKerot
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(09-15-2012, 10:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Branduil

One of these days someone is going to have to ask BONES how they so consistently misunderstand the appeal of their properties.

I was speaking to a couple of people who interviewed the director and producer of Sacred Star of Milos a few months back. Apparently the answer is that they spend more time playing cup-and-ball than they do working on production.
fertygo
Member
(09-15-2012, 10:54 AM)

Originally Posted by DiGiKerot

Accel World? Kind of.

Sunrise is a big (set of) studios, though, so it's going to depend entirely on what staff a particular show gets as well as other factors. I mean, in Akito, isn't the CG use mostly down to how ludicrously complicated the mechanical designs are? Admittedly, that might be a good argument for simplifying your animation designs, but to run with what they have, you'd probably need the staff and production timeline of a Redline to be able to manage that by hand...

I'm surprised they still use hand-drawn animation for "mecha"fight in Horizon S2 too, I thought they could use CG for that Macbeth.
Defuser
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(09-15-2012, 10:54 AM)
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Accel World 23
Dammit Taku, why can't you just shut your mouth and finish him off? You even let him stand up!

Anyway loving the bgm they use so far.
Last edited by Defuser; 09-15-2012 at 10:58 AM.
duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(09-15-2012, 10:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by DiGiKerot

Accel World? Kind of.

Sunrise is a big (set of) studios, though, so it's going to depend entirely on what staff a particular show gets as well as other factors. I mean, in Akito, isn't the CG use mostly down to how ludicrously complicated the mechanical designs are? Admittedly, that might be a good argument for simplifying your animation designs, but to run with what they have, you'd probably need the staff and production timeline of a Redline to be able to manage that by hand...

In the case of Akito, using CG for the mech action was something that came up very early, directly from the producer. It had nothing to do with Sunrise not having 2D mecha animators, but they simply wanted to do something that looked different. Once they decided on that, it also allowed the designs to be more complex and elaborate, and Akane could approach it from a more dynamic way.

He also mentions that for Akito, they didn't use any 2D base key animation for the CG mecha action at all. Instead the CG director was responsible for converting the action from the storyboards directly into CG. The CG director is Eiji Inomoto, who runs Orange. He has worked with both Akane and Kawamori countless times, so Akane is pretty comfortable working with him.

I think that people like Branduil just have to accept that CG animation is every bit as much a part of the animation industry anywhere in the world as traditional animation is. If you want to continue enjoying modern works being made by directors who are interested in developing and expanding themselves further, you will need to look past any silly personal narrow mindedness you have about the different art forms, and just appreciate what people are trying to do.
Jexhius
In every age, in every place,
the deeds of men remain
the same
(09-15-2012, 10:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by duckroll

Code Geass Akito the Exiled looks pretty good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NWe4YU8Eas

While my predilections for handdrawn mechanical animation are well known I'm happy to see that at least the CG mecha have fairly complicated designs and are moving in extremely frantic and interesting ways, so at least they're using the freedom afforded to them via CG to do some cool stuff. However I really dislike those heavy black character outlines that you can see on the mecha because it really makes them stand-out against the 2D world. I have a screencap of what I mean, but sadly photobucket is busted so I can't upload it.
Thoraxes
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(09-15-2012, 10:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by duckroll

Code Geass Akito the Exiled looks pretty good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NWe4YU8Eas

Not enough trumpets.
cajunator
AnimeGAF's largest consumer of cute
(09-15-2012, 11:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by fertygo

How you enjoy something that just throwed at you? jokes, melodrama, marriage plan, fighting. that all shifted between 6 minute in AB.. God, just remember it piss me off.

And I'm sure I'm not picky at all for anime, I still can watch pokemon.

I suppose its because I find enjoyment in a lot of things.
I found angel Beats to be a colorful, intriguing, entertaining show. I never said it was high quality or a masterpiece, just that as a viewer I was drawn into the world and enjoyed the ride. It played with emotions like any Key show does, but I like that sort of thing.
Branduil
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(09-15-2012, 11:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by duckroll

In the case of Akito, using CG for the mech action was something that came up very early, directly from the producer. It had nothing to do with Sunrise not having 2D mecha animators, but they simply wanted to do something that looked different. Once they decided on that, it also allowed the designs to be more complex and elaborate, and Akane could approach it from a more dynamic way.

He also mentions that for Akito, they didn't use any 2D base key animation for the CG mecha action at all. Instead the CG director was responsible for converting the action from the storyboards directly into CG. The CG director is Eiji Inomoto, who runs Orange. He has worked with both Akane and Kawamori countless times, so Akane is pretty comfortable working with him.

I think that people like Branduil just have to accept that CG animation is every bit as much a part of the animation industry anywhere in the world as traditional animation is. If you want to continue enjoying modern works being made by directors who are interested in developing and expanding themselves further, you will need to look past any silly personal narrow mindedness you have about the different art forms, and just appreciate what people are trying to do.

Sometimes it's good to be narrow-minded if expanding your mind involves accepting something that looks bad. Not that Akito is the worst I've seen or anything, but I would certainly prefer to see work from their better traditional animators.

My main complaint about the Japanese use of CGI in character or mechanical animation has always been that they've taken something that they are uniquely good at and replaced it with something pedestrian and mediocre on the worldwide scale.
duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(09-15-2012, 11:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Branduil

Sometimes it's good to be narrow-minded if expanding your mind involves accepting something that looks bad. Not that Akito is the worst I've seen or anything, but I would certainly prefer to see work from their better traditional animators.

My main complaint about the Japanese use of CGI in character or mechanical animation has always been that they've taken something that they are uniquely good at and replaced it with something pedestrian and mediocre on the worldwide scale.

If you think that anime CG looks pedestrian and mediocre on the worldwide scale, I don't really know what to tell you. Because the worldwide scale includes things like Clone Wars, which is fucking awful. Anime CG has reached a point where a lot of it really looks pretty good, especially for cartoons on TV. I'm not really seeing where the international competition is so much better in terms of using CG in TV series. Heck, even CG effects in major network TV shows in the US suck balls. Lost? Heroes?

If you're trying to compare it with something like Pixar, that is really silly because it just means your expectations are skewed. The average Japanese anime's 2D animation isn't anywhere close to looking like a Disney or even Fox animated movie. In fact, one of the biggest observances that people who are familiar with western motion picture animation make about anime is that the frame counts are pretty low and it actually looks really choppy to them. Sure, the scenes are often more elaborate and cooler for the people who like that sort of thing, but the actual technical animation is generally considered low quality by international standards.

Food for thought.
cajunator
AnimeGAF's largest consumer of cute
(09-15-2012, 11:13 AM)
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Kingdom raised the bar on bad CG. It will take something astoundingly awful to top it.
It has actually made me appreciate the CG present in most anime.
The vast majority of it looks fine in the context of the scenes it is in.
sonicmj1
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(09-15-2012, 11:19 AM)
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E7 AO 20

I realized when thinking back on 19 that I had already stopped caring about anything that happened in the show a while ago. Otherwise, the events that ended the episode might have mattered to me. I feel similarly here.

Speaking of missed opportunities, wouldn't it have been great if the thing in the basement was typeTheEND? It's like they don't know what they have.

On the CG discussion, am I misremembering or is all the mech stuff in AO done with CG? I feel like that's been handled really well so far, even if the mechs are relatively underutilized.
wonzo
Ascending the eternal
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(09-15-2012, 11:19 AM)
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Ginga e Kickoff!! 18

Ahh, so that's what the episode title was talking about. It was nice to see Shou finally score his first goal in an official match, even if it was pretty much given to him on a silver platter by one of the triplets.
duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(09-15-2012, 11:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by sonicmj1

On the CG discussion, am I misremembering or is all the mech stuff in AO done with CG? I feel like that's been handled really well so far, even if the mechs are relatively underutilized.

Lol no. Wut. >_<
sonicmj1
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(09-15-2012, 11:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by duckroll

Lol no. Wut. >_<

I guess I somehow got that bit of Akito info mixed up in my E7:AO knowledge in my head.

Because it would have been really seamless-looking CG if so!
fertygo
Member
(09-15-2012, 11:25 AM)
Sunrise is one of the best at CG department on industry anyway (although Akito is worked by ORANGE)
In most case I don't mind with their CG usage, just compare it to I.G or Satelight (and/or their usual contractor)which godawful at it.

Originally Posted by cajunator

I suppose its because I find enjoyment in a lot of things.
I found angel Beats to be a colorful, intriguing, entertaining show. I never said it was high quality or a masterpiece, just that as a viewer I was drawn into the world and enjoyed the ride. It played with emotions like any Key show does, but I like that sort of thing.

But its not colorful. the color look pretty washed in AB.. I could more enjoying AB if its not like feel like something that played with fast forward function.
Last edited by fertygo; 09-15-2012 at 11:29 AM.
Branduil
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(09-15-2012, 11:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by duckroll

If you think that anime CG looks pedestrian and mediocre on the worldwide scale, I don't really know what to tell you. Because the worldwide scale includes things like Clone Wars, which is fucking awful. Anime CG has reached a point where a lot of it really looks pretty good, especially for cartoons on TV. I'm not really seeing where the international competition is so much better in terms of using CG in TV series. Heck, even CG effects in major network TV shows in the US suck balls. Lost? Heroes?

If you're trying to compare it with something like Pixar, that is really silly because it just means your expectations are skewed. The average Japanese anime's 2D animation isn't anywhere close to looking like a Disney or even Fox animated movie. In fact, one of the biggest observances that people who are familiar with western motion picture animation make about anime is that the frame counts are pretty low and it actually looks really choppy to them. Sure, the scenes are often more elaborate and cooler for the people who like that sort of thing, but the actual technical animation is generally considered low quality by international standards.

Food for thought.

Well, you don't have to compare them with Pixar. You can compare them with the video game industry, which often has animation and modeling which makes anime attempts at CGI look subpar.

I mean, I think your point about traditional animation proves my point. Japan does use limited animation, but they've also spent decades animating with its limitations in mind. As far as the art of limited animation goes, Japan is pretty much the top. And that's what makes anime interesting to me, from a visual standpoint. They're better at what they do than anyone else.

So why would I be happy when anime studios take away the thing that makes them visually interesting to me, and replaces it with low-tier CGI? Take the new Berserk films for example; what is there to be excited about with their visuals? I can get all the CGI I want from American films and video games; and it's often good CGI too. I watch anime to see something different, not the same thing but uglier.

I can accept CGI in anime on a practical level, because some things are just prohibitively expensive in traditional animation. And I understand that they'll never be able to afford the best animators or modelers, because all of them work in industries that actually pay. But ultimately, I'm just not excited by mediocre CGI, and I'm afraid my personal preferences are unlikely to change due to persuasive arguments, because tastes rarely work that way.
Last edited by Branduil; 09-15-2012 at 11:34 AM.
Black Republican
water to wine
the drink exchanger
(09-15-2012, 11:43 AM)
finally finished mysterious girlfreind x, great great show
BluWacky
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(09-15-2012, 11:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by duckroll

If you're trying to compare it with something like Pixar, that is really silly because it just means your expectations are skewed. The average Japanese anime's 2D animation isn't anywhere close to looking like a Disney or even Fox animated movie. In fact, one of the biggest observances that people who are familiar with western motion picture animation make about anime is that the frame counts are pretty low and it actually looks really choppy to them. Sure, the scenes are often more elaborate and cooler for the people who like that sort of thing, but the actual technical animation is generally considered low quality by international standards.

This is one reason why I think CG doesn't work very well in anime. It's not necessarily the quality of the CG animation itself - I actually think some studios, particularly Satelight, have got some excellent CG animators these days - but the fact that the smoothness of the CG animation doesn't mesh well with the low frame count of the 2D work.

Satelight have "learnt" how to cover this for the most part by trying not to put CG in the same shot as 2D. There are very few parts in Macross Frontier's battle sequences where the two styles are mixed, and even in this sequence from the second film most of the time the CG is used for background work so the disconnect isn't so obvious (there are also a few moments where Ranka is rendered in cel-shaded CG when she needs to blend more with the overall picture).

This doesn't really contend with Branduil's complaint, but I do think that the integration of CG into anime is getting better and it's beginning to complement the 2D work rather than detract from it.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
(09-15-2012, 11:46 AM)

Originally Posted by wonzo

Ginga e Kickoff!! 17
:firehawk overload ;_;

"Hnnnnnng".
duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(09-15-2012, 11:58 AM)
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Accel World - Episode 23

Wow, that was pretty hype. They could have dialed down the endless shounen talking just a little bit though, it was getting rather excessive at one point. The action was pretty fucking sweet though. I think the sword fight could have done without the tons of post-processing effects which kinda made the scene look a bit like a mess even though the actual animation was pretty good. Other than that, it was pretty sweet. Some nice surprising in how the fight pans out too.

Next week: THE END! Finally! I hope they go all out and make the most amazing battles on the show for the climax. I'm also extra excited because it means I can finally stop watching this show! Lol.
Jexhius
In every age, in every place,
the deeds of men remain
the same
(09-15-2012, 12:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by firehawk12

*censored*

We all know how well liked that term is in these parts!
R_thanatos
Member
(09-15-2012, 12:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Black Republican

finally finished mysterious girlfreind x, great great show

There is an oav if you want more ...


*/ drolls .....
Jexhius
In every age, in every place,
the deeds of men remain
the same
(09-15-2012, 12:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by BluWacky

Satelight have "learnt" how to cover this for the most part by trying not to put CG in the same shot as 2D. There are very few parts in Macross Frontier's battle sequences where the two styles are mixed, and even in this sequence from the second film most of the time the CG is used for background work so the disconnect isn't so obvious (there are also a few moments where Ranka is rendered in cel-shaded CG when she needs to blend more with the overall picture).

As a sidenote, that's exactly how Sky Crawler's handles all of it's CG and I think it works really well for that movie.
duckroll
mashadar's Nekomimi slave
(09-15-2012, 12:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jexhius

As a sidenote, that's exactly how Sky Crawler's handles all of it's CG and I think it works really well for that movie.

I think that's part of how the industry is moving forward right now. It's hard to tell where it will go in another few years, but I've noticed that while 10 years ago there was a lot of "integration" to so speak, these days there is more aggressive attempts at making full-CG scenes instead.

- In Fate/Zero, aside from Berserker, which is mostly intentional, the big CG sequences like the dogfight in 14-15 is pretty much full CG, with the camera, the background, and the objects all being created in a virtual environment and being "directed" that way.

- Black Rock Shooter TV also used full CG action sequences which were completely separate from the 2D character animation scenes in the real world.

- Akito looks like the action sequences will mostly be full CG as well.
Jexhius
In every age, in every place,
the deeds of men remain
the same
(09-15-2012, 12:24 PM)
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[Accel World] - 23

That was pretty fucking sweet. My expectations were met in pretty much every area. It was cool to see the Sunrise action animators do their thing, even if it the visuals were hindered, at times, by some weird effects layered on top of them. That's been an issue with this show in the past and it's even affected some big budget movies like Evangelion 2.0. I wish studios would stop doing it.

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