[Steelrain]

Non-black people came from space?

That's a theory.

[theignoramus]

The perception that these type of comments being largely, almost exclusively, propagated by trolls is greatly exaggerated in my opinion. I believe the vast majority of them are genuine

take out the slurs and it's not anything different than what you see in the comments section at the Wall Street Journal. they're just more subtle about it.

[Milchjon]

Non-black people came from space?

I think he meant it more like "Why didn't they go to other continents and make other people their servants", as in colonize them.

I dunno, it's been a while and it was a single comment. But I still remember how stupid I thought it was.

[Mael]

I think he meant it more like "Why didn't they go to other continents and make other people their servants", as in colonize them. I dunno, it's been a while and it was a single comment. But I still remember how stupid I thought it was.

That still makes no sense.
If they were the firsts, that means that the others less black are their children.
So they pretty much did or is there some vast continents that the aliens found and we still have to find?

[Milchjon]

That still makes no sense. If they were the firsts, that means that the others less black are their children. So they pretty much did or is there some vast continents that the aliens found and we still have to find?

You're thinking too far back in time, he meant somewhere in the second millenium AD, I guess. But yeah, it makes zero sense. Never said it does.

[Mael]

You're thinking too far back in time, he meant somewhere in the second millenium AD, I guess. But yeah, it makes zero sense. Never said it does.

It's actually even worse if you think about it for 2 seconds,
because really the American continent was not some uninhabited wasteland, people actually lived there way before Colombus was even conceived.

I mean seriously this make zero sense.

[Eidan]

Very good. No city better displays the horrors of America's loss of manufacturing and the war on drugs (and the subsequent system of mass incarceration), than Charm City.

Unless you have some kind of massive revamping of the criminal justice system as a whole, the only way to "heal" Baltimore is to gentrify it, which solves nothing, and will only push the poor blacks in the area to deeper ghettos and the surrounding Baltimore suburbs

[Milchjon]

It's actually even worse if you think about it for 2 seconds, because really the American continent was not some uninhabited wasteland, people actually lived there way before Colombus was even conceived. I mean seriously this make zero sense.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean there. I mean, I know people lived there and everywhere else.
He basically said Africans could've conquered Europe and America somewhere in that timeframe.

[Farooq]

I found little in this documentary that I didn't previously know, but to be fair, you'd need to dedicate at least several hours to this subject to produce something really substantive. There are so many threads to the story of Baltimore, because it's essentially the story of the United States in the latter half of the 20th century -- decline of American industry, suburbanization and the abandonment of the city, globalization, growth of the drug war and prison industry, changes in social and family dynamics, failing education system, etc. Not knocking the documentary, it just seems like such a complex, multi-threaded topic to handle that 20 minutes just isn't adequate to the extensiveness of the problems here. The saddest thing is that this did not happen to Baltimore alone, we see the same thing throughout the US... it's the same story in many of our big cities. Baltimore just happens to be one of the more beautiful cities of its size in the country.

It is definitely a complex problem that requires multiple changes in policy and attitudes to really fully address.

I think one thing the documentary did illustrate however is the fact that because the damage is so extensive, that even if a society takes progressive steps in addressing these problems you won't see real change for at least a generation.

I think that is why ineffective policies gain traction, while policies that require real effort and time never have the political capital to employ. Couple that with lobbyist from industries involved in making prisons, a society can be stuck in a perpetual tail spin where problems get worse and never get better.

[Phoenician_Viking]

This reminds me of the excellent BBC documentaries. Well done Aljazeera.

[GQman2121]

He's making a poor joke about Aljazeera

Unbelievable. So abhorrent and unfunny, that I didn't even consider it.

[Hoo-doo]

Thanks for posting this. Great stuff.

[Mael]

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean there. I mean, I know people lived there and everywhere else. He basically said Africans could've conquered Europe and America somewhere in that timeframe.

Oh I think he meant discoveries or something.
Doesn't change how crippingly stupid this is.
It totally disregard how europeano centric our view on history is, I blame the XIXth century for that (as well as the view that Middle Age == Dark Age).

OT: the people at this channel are increasingly getting better at their coverage, can't say I'm unhappy about that.

[Puckmarin]

Very good. No city better displays the horrors of America's loss of manufacturing and the war on drugs (and the subsequent system of mass incarceration), than Charm City. Unless you have some kind of massive revamping of the criminal justice system as a whole, the only way to "heal" Baltimore is to gentrify it, which solves nothing, and will only push the poor blacks in the area to deeper ghettos and the surrounding Baltimore suburbs

Exactly. Baltimore is a blue collar city with a shrinking number of blue collar jobs. Money is being spent to bring business into the city but IMO, it's the wring type of business. We don't need technology companies. We need manufacturing, shipping, etc... I feel like Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is like Nero, fiddling (in this case watching a Grand Prix) while the city burns.

Great, we have a nice Inner Harbor that's one hell of a tourist attraction. Too bad the actual harbor is used for a fraction of what it used to be used for 40 - 50 years ago.

As for the suburbs vs. the city - in the city you've got young african american men & women selling crack and smack. In the 'burbs you've got young white men & women selling prescription drugs. Either way you're surrounded by drugs. I live in a nice neighborhood in Dundalk but I guarantee you that there's some sort of active drug trade going on within a couple of blocks of my house and I'd never know about it.

People also forget that Baltimore & Baltimore county is the birthplace of DMI, one of the biggest prison gangs in existence today. While their activities have mainly been centered around correctional facilities they are starting to move to the streets of Baltimore as more and more of their members are released from jail. I can only imagine whats going to happen when they start mixing with existing gangs in the city.

[GQman2121]

And I know people outside of the city don't realize it, but Hamsterdam is a real police strategy that is routinely used in this city. No one at City Hall would ever, ever admit to it if asked, but it's obvious that the police allow certain types of people (aka. poor people) to break the law as long as they contain it in their part of town. The cop in the doc says as much. They're not worried about the drugs, they're worried about the bodies...for now.

Pretty much anywhere within a mile or two of water downtown is as safe as any city in the country. That's because that's where the tax payers live and those areas are heavily policed. Outside of that range and all bets are off.

[Technosteve]

riding the trolley in bmore doesn't seem safe.

[Milchjon]

Oh I think he meant discoveries or something. Doesn't change how crippingly stupid this is. It totally disregard how europeano centric our view on history is, I blame the XIXth century for that (as well as the view that Middle Age == Dark Age). OT: the people at this channel are increasingly getting better at their coverage, can't say I'm unhappy about that.

Haha, yeah, but it wasn't part of some deep argument, it was just an offhand stupid remark. You're reading way too much into it. ;-)

[Mael]

Haha, yeah, but it wasn't part of some deep argument, it was just an offhand stupid remark. You're reading way too much into it. ;-)

My fault though, I have an unhealthy high tolerance for stupid jokes but an unhealthy low tolerance in stupid remarks so I tend to get fired up over stuffs like that :p

Exactly. Baltimore is a blue collar city with a shrinking number of blue collar jobs. Money is being spent to bring business into the city but IMO, it's the wring type of business. We don't need technology companies. We need manufacturing, shipping, etc... I feel like Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is like Nero, fiddling (in this case watching a Grand Prix) while the city burns. Great, we have a nice Inner Harbor that's one hell of a tourist attraction. Too bad the actual harbor is used for a fraction of what it used to be used for 40 - 50 years ago. As for the suburbs vs. the city - in the city you've got young african american men & women selling crack and smack. In the 'burbs you've got young white men & women selling prescription drugs. Either way you're surrounded by drugs. I live in a nice neighborhood in Dundalk but I guarantee you that there's some sort of active drug trade going on within a couple of blocks of my house and I'd never know about it. People also forget that Baltimore & Baltimore county is the birthplace of DMI, one of the biggest prison gangs in existence today. While their activities have mainly been centered around correctional facilities they are starting to move to the streets of Baltimore as more and more of their members are released from jail. I can only imagine whats going to happen when they start mixing with existing gangs in the city.

Wouldn't a influx of tech companies be a good thing?
I mean if you intend on gentrifying the whole area...
You can also try to improve the area via college partnership and all.
Or am I missing something?

[cajunator]

Wouldn't a influx of tech companies be a good thing? I mean if you intend on gentrifying the whole area... You can also try to improve the area via college partnership and all. Or am I missing something?

Doesnt solve anything, it just relocates the problem, like Washington DC and Chicago.

[GQman2121]

riding the trolley in bmore doesn't seem safe.

I tweeted this on Sunday from the Light Rail when I went out to pickup Sleeping Dogs. It's shockingly depressing how funny it is.

[Puckmarin]

And I know people outside of the city don't realize it, but Hamsterdam is a real police strategy that is routinely used in this city. No one at City Hall would ever, ever admit to it if asked, but it's obvious that the police allow certain types of people (aka. poor people) to break the law as long as they contain it in their part of town. The cop in the doc says as much. They're not worried about the drugs, they're worried about the bodies...for now. Pretty much anywhere within a mile or two of water downtown is as safe as any city in the country. That's because that's where the tax payers live and those areas are heavily policed. Outside of that range and all bets are off.

This is 100% true. It's the guns and the murders that the police are after. If you use/sell drugs in certain parts of the city you're fine. Sure, you might be arrested every once and awhile but you're going to be out on bail (most likely your own recog.) as soon as possible. However, bring that shit downtown into the tourist areas and you're screwed.

Personally I feel safer in Baltimore than I did in DC. Of course, I was mugged at gunpoint in DC and the only bad thing that has happened in Baltimore is a near fist fight with some anti-semetic neighbors when I lived in Canton.

[Technosteve]

I tweeted this on Sunday from the Light Rail when I went out to pickup Sleeping Dogs. It's shockingly depressing how funny it is.

i took the trolley from inner harbor area to penn station that ride kinda depressed the shit out of me.

[ahoyhoy]

As a Baltimore suburbanite, born and raised, I rarely see much reason to travel into the city. There's a lot of charm to it, yes (damn them, tricking me into falling for their manufactured nickname), but, as an out-of-towner, the city seems like a foreign, unwelcome land to me (outside of the Inner Harbor/Fells Point, of course).

While D.C. might be just as dangerous in certain areas, there's a certain sense of prosperity that radiates throughout the city thanks to the large Government sector that will in all likelihood never cut jobs by a significant margin. Baltimore seems like the city that could collapse into the Bay at an moment, and people wouldn't do so much as question the catastrophic events' reasoning.

[Mael]

Doesnt solve anything, it just relocates the problem, like Washington DC and Chicago.

Very true but it's not the kind of things you can actually solve unless, like you said, manifacture comes back in this place.
Still can't hurt to do both, no?

[Holy Crap]

Thanks for posting. I really need to watch The Wire.

The Wire is a reason to watch television if you ever needed to convince someone.

[Puckmarin]

As a Baltimore suburbanite, born and raised, I rarely see much reason to travel into the city. There's a lot of charm to it, yes (damn them, tricking me into falling for their manufactured nickname), but, as an out-of-towner, the city seems like a foreign, unwelcome land to me (outside of the Inner Harbor/Fells Point, of course). While D.C. might be just as dangerous in certain areas, there's a certain sense of prosperity that radiates throughout the city thanks to the large Government sector that will in all likelihood never cut jobs by a significant margin. Baltimore seems like the city that could collapse into the Bay at an moment, and people wouldn't do so much as question the catastrophic events' reasoning.

When I lived in the city it was great. I lived in Canton and Fells Point and I could walk to everything I needed. Now I live in the suburbs and my wife teaches at Patterson (just inside the city line). We rarely feel the need to go into the city unless it's for dinner, etc... Even then we tend to avoid it. Not because of the crime but because parking is such a pain.

[cajunator]

Very true but it's not the kind of things you can actually solve unless, like you said, manifacture comes back in this place. Still can't hurt to do both, no?

The problem is that the people who live in those areas are brought up in a hopeless environment. they cant work because there isnt any, and they cant think of any legal way to survive because they are uneducated and far from opportunities. So the only solution really is to relocate them to an area that DOES have opportunity, but then you have the problem of other people not wanting these people to be there. The issue being that by this point, the relocated people likely have been convicted of something and are seen as dangerous already.
For some people this may work, and they can be rehabilitated and reinstated into society, but for others, it may take a long long time if it is not impossible. I honestly dont think there is a real solution to this problem other than depopulation, but then, it becomes somebody elses problem.

[ahoyhoy]

When I lived in the city it was great. I lived in Canton and Fells Point and I could walk to everything I needed. Now I live in the suburbs and my wife teaches at Patterson (just inside the city line). We rarely feel the need to go into the city unless it's for dinner, etc... Even then we tend to avoid it. Not because of the crime but because parking is such a pain.

Commuting represents a huge frustration to me as well. Anytime my friend invites me out to a bar anywhere in the city, I cringe at having to navigate the perpetually-under-construction, parkingless, one-way hellhole that is Baltimore's road system. Even though I've driven in and out of the city at least a dozen times, I still manage to get lost when a random left-turn lane is closed or is blocked.

[Puckmarin]

Commuting represents a huge frustration to me as well. Anytime my friend invites me out to a bar anywhere in the city, I cringe at having to navigate the perpetually-under-construction, parkingless, one-way hellhole that is Baltimore's road system. Even though I've driven in and out of the city at least a dozen times, I still manage to get lost when a random left-turn lane is closed or is blocked.

It's sad because Red Star (where we got engaged) and Ale Marys are two of our favorite places in the city but they are just too difficult to get to now that we live in Dundalk. Of course, Fells is bad but I haven't been in Fed. Hill in over a year because parking is such a mess. The Broadway Diner and Samos in Greektown are our two "go to" places for quick dinner now. Also, if you haven't been, Costa's on Northpoint Blvd. in Canton is probably the best seafood place I've ever been to.

Regarding The Wire, it's probably my favorite TV Series ever. It's perfect in every way. However, when I talk about it always think of my wife's experience with the show:

She moved to B'more in 2006 to attend grad school and decided to stay. In 2010 she decided to switch jobs and become a high school history teacher via the Baltimore City Teaching Residency. This was before I met her and she had never seen The Wire, only heard about it. She knew that season 4 centered around kids and schools in Baltimore so she purchased that season and watched it without knowing anything about the show. She said she was shocked at some of the school scenes and couldn't believe that they were real. However, within two weeks of being in the classroom her first year of teaching everything in the show was confirmed. I've tried to get her to watch the rest of the show but she refuses to do it - it's too depressing and too much like her real life.

[cajunator]

I definitely wouldnt live near Baltimore if I lived in Maryland. would much prefer one of the lower counties like St Marys.

[Puckmarin]

I definitely wouldnt live near Baltimore if I lived in Maryland. would much prefer one of the lower counties like St Marys.

Honestly, if not for my wife's job I wouldn't live in Maryland at all.

I grew up in Virginia and have lived most of my adult life in either DC or the DC Suburbs. I moved to Baltimore in early 2010 to live with a now ex-girlfriend of mine. After we broke up I decided to stay and eventually met my wife. Living in MD as a renter was fine but living here as a homeowner is a pain in the ass. I don't regret buying our house but I do wish it was in another state. One with lower tax rates, etc...

[vas_a_morir]

Honestly, if not for my wife's job I wouldn't live in Maryland at all. I grew up in Virginia and have lived most of my adult life in either DC or the DC Suburbs. I moved to Baltimore in early 2010 to live with a now ex-girlfriend of mine. After we broke up I decided to stay and eventually met my wife. Living in MD as a renter was fine but living here as a homeowner is a pain in the ass. I don't regret buying our house but I do wish it was in another state. One with lower tax rates, etc...

I hear Virginia's considerably lower tax-rate has made that part of the country boom, despite the super high property value.

For what it's worth, I hated Maryland, liked DC, and loved NE Virginia when I was there.

[cajunator]

Honestly, if not for my wife's job I wouldn't live in Maryland at all. I grew up in Virginia and have lived most of my adult life in either DC or the DC Suburbs. I moved to Baltimore in early 2010 to live with a now ex-girlfriend of mine. After we broke up I decided to stay and eventually met my wife. Living in MD as a renter was fine but living here as a homeowner is a pain in the ass. I don't regret buying our house but I do wish it was in another state. One with lower tax rates, etc...

Yeah the taxes probably suck. Southern Maryland is so gorgeous though. I loved vacationing down there. A place called Bushwood.
Property taxes here in Louisiana are extremely low.

[Cake Boss]

I tweeted this on Sunday from the Light Rail when I went out to pickup Sleeping Dogs. It's shockingly depressing how funny it is.

WHAAATT THHEEE FUUUCCKK?

This deserves its own thread.

[Hoo-doo]

WHAAATT THHEEE FUUUCCKK? This deserves its own thread.

I don't see how this is that crazy? Could you explain?

(dumb European here)

[Puckmarin]

As an aside, it's roughly 80 degrees in Baltimore today. A nice end of summer day, right?

The heat is on full blast at my wife's school. It was 103 in her classroom this morning until she opened the windows. You can't drink the water at the school because of some issue with the plumbing so there are water coolers in all of the hallways. Problem being, most are empty because they weren't refilled over the long weekend.

The city can't even create a decent learning environment for it's students much less solve major issues related to drugs and crime.

[Puckmarin]

I don't see how this is that crazy? Could you explain? (dumb European here)

In the US there are lots of racist stereotypes about African Americans liking fried chicken. I'm not sure where or why that stereotype started.

It's just a poor choice of food to use as an example on public transportation in Baltimore.

[Savage]

Can't wait to be in Baltimore this Thursday

[BaltimoreLarry]

I tweeted this on Sunday from the Light Rail when I went out to pickup Sleeping Dogs. It's shockingly depressing how funny it is.

I got a ticket on the subway for drinking a milkshake. Cost me 90 dollars. MUSTN'T DRINK ON THE TRAINS!

In CA, you can drink alcohol on the trains.

[Eidan]

I hear Virginia's considerably lower tax-rate has made that part of the country boom, despite the super high property value. For what it's worth, I hated Maryland, liked DC, and loved NE Virginia when I was there.

The DC metropolitan area is doing well because of government contracting, particularly in defense. Many of the highest paid contractors live in northern Virginia.

[ahoyhoy]

I definitely wouldnt live near Baltimore if I lived in Maryland. would much prefer one of the lower counties like St Marys.

A lot of the people I know who live in Southern Maryland are all in a big hurry to get out. While it might feature pleasant scenery and serene towns, it's a pain in the ass for a young person trying to find a job outside of the blue color/agricultural sector. I know a person who commutes 1.5 hours from Mechanicsville (in St. Mary's) up to Laurel (Prince Georges County, D.C. Suburb) every day. And commuting on the Beltway is unlike any other commute in the country.

[cajunator]

The DC metropolitan area is doing well because of government contracting, particularly in defense. Many of the highest paid contractors live in northern Virginia.

Thats what all my cousins do up there.
They are all quite well off and living in places like Alexandria and Fairfax.

[ahoyhoy]

Thats what all my cousins do up there. They are all quite well off and living in places like Alexandria and Fairfax.

NoVA is such a strange place to me. High cost of living, long commuting time, very little in the way of practical benefits (aside from more open space, I guess).

If I worked in D.C., I'd much rather live in an area like Columbia Heights. Might be a bit sketchy, but it's also a much more vibrant area that feels much less "phoney" than NoVA.

[cajunator]

A lot of the people I know who live in Southern Maryland are all in a big hurry to get out. While it might feature pleasant scenery and serene towns, it's a pain in the ass for a young person trying to find a job outside of the blue color/agricultural sector. I know a person who commutes 1.5 hours from Mechanicsville (in St. Mary's) up to Laurel (Prince Georges County, D.C. Suburb) every day. And commuting on the Beltway is unlike any other commute in the country.

I loved the blue collar atmosphere of the place, but yeah from what I could see it was mainly maritime/fishing, agriculture, retail/tourism, or funnily enough defense contracting jobs to be found there. but theres no shame in those kinds of jobs either. Those are very important parts of what make america function. Also, the presence of amish and all the antique markets gave the place a really charming feel to it that I loved a lot. the colonial history of the place was incredibly interesting to me as well. I love history and americana so much.

[Eidan]

NoVA is such a strange place to me. High cost of living, long commuting time, very little in the way of practical benefits (aside from more open space, I guess). If I worked in D.C., I'd much rather live in an area like Columbia Heights. Might be a bit sketchy, but it's also a much more vibrant area that feels much less "phoney" than NoVA.

The Orange Line corridor in Arlington is nice, but the rest of Virginia is nothing but typical suburban sprawl, which is the epitome of "unlivable boredom" to me.

[cajunator]

NoVA is such a strange place to me. High cost of living, long commuting time, very little in the way of practical benefits (aside from more open space, I guess). If I worked in D.C., I'd much rather live in an area like Columbia Heights. Might be a bit sketchy, but it's also a much more vibrant area that feels much less "phoney" than NoVA.

Personally, if I could find work, I wouldnt mind living in some little mountain town like Wytheville, Va, or any of those small towns in the mountains off of Interstate 81. UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLY GORGEOUS area.

But this thread is about Baltimore and I quite derailed it lol.

I visited the aquarium there and liked that. The part of the city I visited was the touristy side though.

[Puckmarin]

The Orange Line corridor in Arlington is nice, but the rest of Virginia is nothing but typical suburban sprawl, which is the epitome of "unlivable boredom" to me.

I grew up in Loudoun County when it was the "country." You're right about it being suburban sprawl now...

I've lived in Alexandria, Springfield, Arlington, and DC. Of all of those places I'd live in Alexandria again in a heartbeat. Yes, It's a little overpriced but not nearly as overpriced as DC.

Again, I do LOVE Baltimore, I just don't love everything about the city. Baltimore County, on the other hand is different. I find very little to love about it even though I bought a home there. It's affordable and the commute for my wife is about 10 minutes, in traffic.

[HamPster PamPster]

I recently moved to Baltimore. I don't like it personally, it has a real depressing feel. Of course maybe thats me projecting my own general unhappiness

I'll watch this tonight, should be interesting

[ahoyhoy]

I grew up in Loudoun County when it was the "country." You're right about it being suburban sprawl now... I've lived in Alexandria, Springfield, Arlington, and DC. Of all of those places I'd live in Alexandria again in a heartbeat. Yes, It's a little overpriced but not nearly as overpriced as DC. Again, I do LOVE Baltimore, I just don't love everything about the city. Baltimore County, on the other hand is different. I find very little to love about it even though I bought a home there. It's affordable and the commute for my wife is about 10 minutes, in traffic.

That's pretty much the case with all the B-more suburbs. Baltimore/Harford/Howard/Carrol counties seem devoid of any aesthetic or cultural appreciation aside from the occasional open-space.

Sometimes it seems like people around here pay $800,000 for their homes just so that they can complain about the 45 minute commute into the city.

[Synth_floyd]

Reporting anything negative about America means the terrorists won. Look at Fox News, they only report about the big stories, how libruls are destroying the country and how rich white people are going to get poorer because of Obama and how America is the best country that's ever existed in the history of the world.