[twofold]

They still have the best hardware design in the industry, and bored tech nerds and journalists aside, a much beloved OS. I agree it's par for the course, in the sense that nobody else is doing anything revolutionary either. I think mobile tech in general is starting to mature. Until the wearable stuff hits big time, we're in for a slower cycle.

Mobile tech has been stagnating for a while now. All we've been seeing is phones with better specs. Bigger screens, quicker processors, more powerful GPUs.

The have the most refined design, but not the best anymore. With the 4 they at least thought outside the box with having glass be the primary body of the phone rather than just the face. The unibody on the 5 is nothing new. On the other hand you have other companies pushing dimensional glass and moving into new materials like polycarbonates and ceramic coatings. Apple is just laser focused on the supply chain, which works out handsomely for them, but it's no longer advancing uniquely. Nokia's tech on the Lumia line is a generation or two ahead of what Apple just put out.

What tech? Outside of the camera, I don't see what would make the Lumia "a generation or two" ahead of the iPhone 5.

[Rebel Leader]

Android is for children, iOS is for refined gentlemen.

Wrong
Android is for people
IOS is for apple fans

=3

[Rivyn]

Wrong Android is for people IOS is for apple fans =3

This.

[Copernicus]

Mobile tech has been stagnating for a while now. All we've been seeing is phones with better specs. Bigger screens, quicker processors, more powerful GPUs. What tech? Outside of the camera, I don't see what would make the Lumia "a generation or two" ahead of the iPhone 5.

Touch screen tech, anti glare layering on displays, OIS, pureview, lcd refresh thing they have going on.

[buhdeh]

Google better do something with NFC while they still have this head start. It's been... what, nearly 2 years since NFC started showing up in most Android phones and they've still barely done anything with it.

It's a joke that some versions of the same phone have Google Wallet stripped out while others don't. Pay Pass is pretty widespread in Canada now yet Google doesn't even allow Canadians to take advantage of Google Wallet at all.

[twofold]

Touch screen tech, anti glare layering on displays, OIS, pureview, lcd refresh thing they have going on.

And all of that in a large bulky phone that weighs 73 grams more than the iPhone 5.

As far as tech goes, it's pretty close. Taken from Damon Benet's post, the 920 has: Highest DPI Fastest Screen Refresh Screen that works with gloves Best Camera on any current smartphone for videos AND pictures NFC Wireless Charging Best visibility in sunlight (according to nokia) Best audio-recording iPhone 5 has it beat on GPU, and as far as CPU goes, WP8 is such a lightweight OS that it was even buttery smooth on first gen hardware.

The 920 is a great phone, but it's obvious that Nokia has different priorities than Apple. Apple wants to make a small phone that is light, durable and can be held in one hand. Nokia wants to create a phone for tech nerds. They're different phones for different audiences.

There are things that the 920 does better and there are things that the iPhone does better. Saying that the 920 is "a generation or two" ahead of the iPhone 5 is ludicrous.

[Anton Sugar]

What tech? Outside of the camera, I don't see what would make the Lumia "a generation or two" ahead of the iPhone 5.

As far as tech goes, it's pretty close. Taken from Damon Benet's post, the 920 has:

Highest DPI
Fastest Screen Refresh
Screen that works with gloves
Best Camera on any current smartphone for videos AND pictures
NFC
Wireless Charging
Best visibility in sunlight (according to nokia)
Best audio-recording

iPhone 5 has it beat on GPU, and as far as CPU goes, WP8 is such a lightweight OS that it was even buttery smooth on first gen hardware.

[CrankyJay]

What tech? Outside of the camera, I don't see what would make the Lumia "a generation or two" ahead of the iPhone 5.

Screen Response while wearing gloves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxesfUAlfBQ

[Copernicus]

And all of that in a large bulky phone that weighs 73 grams more than the iPhone 5.

I see. Well then. I guess the tech isn't better.

You got me.

[Anton Sugar]

And all of that in a large bulky phone that weighs 73 grams more than the iPhone 5.

Lumia 920 is smaller, height-wise, than the Galaxy S3, Galaxy Note II, One X, and Nexus, and only slightly wider than them.

And what do weight and dimensions have to do with tech?

[ericexpo]

i have no problem with the hardware of the iphone and all those things except for wireless charging seem like a gimmick i wouldn't use.
But the ios is getting stale for me, it works but after 5 years the squares need an update.

[Tobor]

Lumia 920 is smaller, height-wise, than the Galaxy S3, Galaxy Note II, One X, and Nexus, and only slightly wider than them. And what do weight and dimensions have to do with tech?

You can't be serious?

[eastmen]

It's somewhat humorous to me that people are upset that the iPhone doesn't have NFC when in reality it is NFC that needs the iPhone to adopt it in order for it to take off - it simply isn't being adopted widely enough right now. A decent article on the possible reason for its non-inclusion in the 5.

it wont be included until apple can make its own verison and then charge everyone 30% of the transaction amount to use it.

[CrankyJay]

You can't be serious?

Yes he can.

It's called a trade off. Get all those things in an iPhone while maintaining or decreasing size and we'll talk.

They get away with that stuff but at the cost of adding it later and *some* Apple fans being smug pricks about it.

[Rivyn]

And what do weight and dimensions have to do with tech?

[AstroNut325]

LOL! Awesome!

[twofold]

You can't be serious?

Yeah, I don't even know how to respond to that.

[eastmen]

You can't be serious?

Weight and size are secondary to function. The iphone is very light but its screen is also much smaller and perhaps worse in direct sun light.

Which of the 3 is most important to you ? I find myself needing a larger screen as i have big hands , the 4.5 is just a bit smaller than i'd like (i like the s3's size more). Improved anti glare helps too as I use the phone outside alot and in places with bright over head lights . Being able to reduce the brightness of the screen should also help battery life.

Having a phone weight a little less isn't much of plus for me. The galaxy note fits in my pocket and is light enough .


I dunno mabye you have diffrent prioritys . But if you wanted a really light phone and small phone above all else you would buy a flip phone , those are lighter than the iphone , heck the keyocera rise is lighter and smaller i believe.

[Technosteve]

As far as tech goes, it's pretty close. Taken from Damon Benet's post, the 920 has: Highest DPI Fastest Screen Refresh Screen that works with gloves Best Camera on any current smartphone for videos AND pictures NFC Wireless Charging Best visibility in sunlight (according to nokia) Best audio-recording iPhone 5 has it beat on GPU, and as far as CPU goes, WP8 is such a lightweight OS that it was even buttery smooth on first gen hardware.

Real talk, it won't do the numbers the galaxy s 3 or any iPhone.

[Phoenix]

Android is for children, iOS is for refined gentlemen.

To be fair, there are more children using iOS.

[Interficium]

And all of that in a large bulky phone that weighs 73 grams more than the iPhone 5. The 920 is a great phone, but it's obvious that Nokia has different priorities than Apple. Apple wants to make a small phone that is light, durable and can be held in one hand. Nokia wants to create a phone for tech nerds. They're different phones for different audiences. There are things that the 920 does better and there are things that the iPhone does better. Saying that the 920 is "a generation or two" ahead of the iPhone 5 is ludicrous.

BUT BUT BUT NFC AND WIRELESS CHARGING!

NeoGaf will never understand why consumers don't choose products solely on what a feature/spec matrix says.

[Dreams-Visions]

Screen Response while wearing gloves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxesfUAlfBQ

I need to try one of these. Are they at AT&T stores yet?

If I like it that much *and* it has the software I use on my iPhone on a daily basis, I'll cancel my i5 pre-order.

That said, there are some apps that I simply *must* have. If they're not available on WP7/8, it's a non-starter. It's not just about the OS and built-in features; it's about the 3rd party software, accessories and hardware support. The iPhone is like the Glock brand of handguns: there are a million cheap parts and accessories out there because the brand's products have been so popular, solid and consistent for so many years. It's hard for other companies to get the same kind of support.

So with that said, the 920 is a beautiful phone, but I need more than just that. Show me the 3rd party accessory support and the apps.

[CrankyJay]

I need to try one of these. Are they at AT&T stores yet? If I like it that much *and* it has the software I use on my iPhone on a daily basis, I'll cancel my i5 pre-order. That said, there are some apps that I simply *must* have. If they're not available on WP7/8, it's a non-starter. It's not just about the OS and built-in features; it's about the 3rd party software, accessories and hardware support. The iPhone is like the Glock brand of handguns: there are a million cheap parts and accessories out there because the brand's products have been so popular, solid and consistent for so many years. It's hard for other companies to get the same kind of support. So with that said, the 920 is a beautiful phone, but I need more than just that. Show me the 3rd party accessory support and the apps.

Fair enough...no release date until MS figures out what they're doing with Win 8 mobile.

I'm actually in the same boat as you. iPhone 4 user tied into ecosystem...waiting on a few things to fall into place app support wise, etc.

[buhdeh]

You can't be serious?

TBH, I think phones have gotten to the point that they ALMOST don't matter. Outside of some gigantic beast like the Note, a 73 gram difference isn't going to make or break my decision on a phone. Neither would a few mm in dimensions.

It might have taken millions in R&D to shave off 20 grams from the 4S but to me, it's barely a feature. It's not like I felt the 4S was too big or too heavy.

[Tobor]

Yes he can. It's called a trade off. Get all those things in an iPhone while maintaining or decreasing size and we'll talk. They get away with that stuff but at the cost of adding it later and *some* Apple fans being smug pricks about it.

Weight and size are secondary to function. The iphone is very light but its screen is also much smaller and perhaps worse in direct sun light. Which of the 3 is most important to you ? I find myself needing a larger screen as i have big hands , the 4.5 is just a bit smaller than i'd like (i like the s3's size more). Improved anti glare helps too as I use the phone outside alot and in places with bright over head lights . Being able to reduce the brightness of the screen should also help battery life. Having a phone weight a little less isn't much of plus for me. The galaxy note fits in my pocket and is light enough . I dunno mabye you have diffrent prioritys . But if you wanted a really light phone and small phone above all else you would buy a flip phone , those are lighter than the iphone , heck the keyocera rise is lighter and smaller i believe.

You're both agreeing with me. I'm not arguing what's more important. I'm arguing that it's absurd to claim that weight and dimension have nothing to do with tech. It's been incredibly important to every aspect of technology since...forever.

Balancing size and weight against features and power, that's tech design and engineering in a nutshell.

[Anton Sugar]

Yes he can. It's called a trade off. Get all those things in an iPhone while maintaining or decreasing size and we'll talk. They get away with that stuff but at the cost of adding it later and *some* Apple fans being smug pricks about it.

Weight and size are secondary to function. The iphone is very light but its screen is also much smaller and perhaps worse in direct sun light. Which of the 3 is most important to you ? I find myself needing a larger screen as i have big hands , the 4.5 is just a bit smaller than i'd like (i like the s3's size more). Improved anti glare helps too as I use the phone outside alot and in places with bright over head lights . Being able to reduce the brightness of the screen should also help battery life. Having a phone weight a little less isn't much of plus for me. The galaxy note fits in my pocket and is light enough .

This. We're not talking about huge brick phones here--all the major modern flagship phones aren't hulking beasts, and besides that, the demand for larger screens is rising. I'll take new, innovative tech in a phone that is basically the size of my current one (Lumia 900) than a smaller phone.

Real talk, it won't do the numbers the galaxy s 3 or any iPhone.

I will never disagree with this.

Apple wants to make a small phone that is light, durable and can be held in one hand. Nokia wants to create a phone for tech nerds. They're different phones for different audiences. There are things that the 920 does better and there are things that the iPhone does better. Saying that the 920 is "a generation or two" ahead of the iPhone 5 is ludicrous.

Wha? And how is the 920 not durable/unable to be held in one hand?

It's strange that you say the 920 is for tech nerds. A lot of the tech updates were made for ease of use (wireless charging, improve screen touch sensitivity, screen viewability improvements, and even the image stabilization). Considering the iPhone 5 lacks one big killer feature this year, a fallback defense is "but look at the processor and GPU improvements!"

[AstroNut325]

TBH, I think phones have gotten to the point that they ALMOST don't matter. Outside of some gigantic beast like the Note, a 73 gram difference isn't going to make or break my decision on a phone. Neither would a few mm in dimensions. It might have taken millions in R&D to shave off 20 grams from the 4S but to me, it's barely a feature. It's not like I felt the 4S was too big or too heavy.

To you and the technically aware crowd... it means little to nothing. But to the mainstream consumer... "OHHHH it's sooo thin and light. Even thinner and lighter than the previous iPhone!"

[Dreams-Visions]

Fair enough...no release date until MS figures out what they're doing with Win 8 mobile. I'm actually in the same boat as you. iPhone 4 user tied into ecosystem...waiting on a few things to fall into place app support wise, etc.

What is the outlook for WP looking like these days? Those of us who've followed the 920 know it's a great piece of equipment, but I haven't heard shit about 3rd party developers being interested in making software for it. I know Windows 8 Metro apps will be somewhat cross-compatible with the phone, but it's hard for me to bet the next 2 years (dat contract) on an mobile OS with very little 3rd party credibility atm and a marketshare so small Webster would laugh at it.

Feels like a gamble. idk.

[border]

I think a better question is, would the iPhone 5 be exciting even if they had included support for all these half-baked, poorly supported technologies? If you could charge it wirelessly or use NFC, would you really be saying "HOLY SHIT! What a revolution! Now this is the phone for me!" My guess is NO. You wold still say that it's boring.

Because it seems like for all the Android stuff that has been brought over to the iPhone (4" screen, LTE support)....the response has been a pretty resounding "Meh". Stuff that was a big deal when only Android had it is just some tickbox that gets perfunctorily checked off. If LTE isn't a big deal because Droid phones already had it, then why would NFC have been a big deal?

For the anti-Apple crown it's a weird sort of dissonance. They pretend a feature is life-changing if the iPhone doesn't have it.....but if Apple implements said feature they just shrug their shoulders and immediately start touting some other feature that the iPhone doesn't have.

[buhdeh]

To you and the technically aware crowd... it means little to nothing. But to the mainstream consumer... "OHHHH it's sooo thin and light. Even thinner and lighter than the previous iPhone!"

I don't think I've ever heard anyone pick up a modern phone and say... man this thing is way too heavy.

Who knows, maybe there are people that pick their phones based on being the absolute lightest.

[Anton Sugar]

You're both agreeing with me. I'm not arguing what's more important. I'm arguing that it's absurd to claim that weight and dimension have nothing to do with tech. It's been incredibly important to every aspect of technology since...forever. Balancing size and weight against features and power, that's tech design and engineering in a nutshell.

Sorry, I didn't mean to dismiss the notion outright--that wasn't my intention. Rather, this is where I'm coming from:

TBH, I think phones have gotten to the point that they ALMOST don't matter. Outside of some gigantic beast like the Note, a 73 gram difference isn't going to make or break my decision on a phone. Neither would a few mm in dimensions. It might have taken millions in R&D to shave off 20 grams from the 4S but to me, it's barely a feature. It's not like I felt the 4S was too big or too heavy.

Bingo. Who was clamoring for size/weight reductions for the 4S? It's a nice improvement, but it boils down to being a "it's the lightest/thinnest phone ever!" bullet point...and that's it.

Not that people will honestly be able to notice a difference.

I think a better question is, would the iPhone 5 be exciting even if they had included support for all these half-baked, poorly supported technologies? If you could charge it wirelessly or use NFC, would you really be saying "HOLY SHIT! What a revolution! Now this is the phone for me!" My guess is NO. You wold still say that it's boring.

Did Apple really not endorse "half-baked" ideas, or do you think they're half-baked because Apple didn't endorse them? When did NFC and wireless charging suddenly become half-baked technologies?

[eastmen]

You're both agreeing with me. I'm not arguing what's more important. I'm arguing that it's absurd to claim that weight and dimension have nothing to do with tech. It's been incredibly important to every aspect of technology since...forever. Balancing size and weight against features and power, that's tech design and engineering in a nutshell.

the way you put forth your arguement makes it read like anything heavier than the iphone 5 is to heavy for a phone .

We aren't talking about lbs of diffrences , we are talking grams

[Flo_Evans]

IDK I find that even if WP or andriod matched the app store 1:1, why would I switch? I have already bought all these apps, they already work on whatever iOS device I have.

I have 300+ apps and allot of them where more than $.99

[buhdeh]

I think a better question is, would the iPhone 5 be exciting even if they had included support for all these half-baked, poorly supported technologies? If you could charge it wirelessly or use NFC, would you really be saying "HOLY SHIT! What a revolution! Now this is the phone for me!" My guess is NO. You wold still say that it's boring.

If they had a REAL NFC solution ready, I'd certainly be amazed. Not like the half-assed crap Google is doing with it.

I'm talking deals with carriers, credit card companies, retailers, etc. all ready to go so you can pay and use passes, membership cards, etc. with your phone.

[lupinko]

The iPhone 5 selling out on Apple's site in less than an hour disagrees.

[Copernicus]

I think a better question is, would the iPhone 5 be exciting even if they had included support for all these half-baked, poorly supported technologies? If you could charge it wirelessly or use NFC, would you really be saying "HOLY SHIT! What a revolution! Now this is the phone for me!" My guess is NO. You wold still say that it's boring. Because it seems like for all the Android stuff that has been brought over to the iPhone (4" screen, LTE support)....the response has been a pretty resounding "Meh". Stuff that was a big deal when only Android had it is just some tickbox that gets perfunctorily checked off. If LTE isn't a big deal because Droid phones already had it, then why would NFC have been a big deal? For the anti-Apple crown it's a weird sort of dissonance. They pretend a feature is life-changing if the iPhone doesn't have it.....but if Apple implements said feature they just shrug their shoulders and immediately start touting some other feature that the iPhone doesn't have.

I was hoping that Apple pushed NFC in order to increase support and usage for everybody since it's standarized.

They have the numbers and weight to push adoption.

I know, I know, it's crazy to think about things outside of a vs. match.

[Angry Grimace]

iPhone 5 is only boring in the sense that it looks physically the same as the previous version, so therefore it loses hipster cred for not being readily identifiable by people you don't know in a Tapas Bar.

[Tobor]

the way you put forth your arguement makes it read like anything heavier than the iphone 5 is to heavy for a phone . We aren't talking about lbs of diffrences , we are talking grams

Nope. I'm responding to Anton's blanket statement, which he explained was a miscommunication on his part.

[eastmen]

IDK I find that even if WP or andriod matched the app store 1:1, why would I switch? I have already bought all these apps, they already work on whatever iOS device I have. I have 300+ apps and allot of them where more than $.99

Thats up to you.


To me there are more MS products that interest me than IOS products . Yes there is an ipad and iphone. But on the MS side

I have 2 desktops
I have 2 laptops
I have 4 xbox 360s
I have 1 htpc with 2 4 channel tuners.

So for me the MS eco system is more attractive and its becoming bigger and more intergrated. Next year I will have windows phone 8s and I will have surfaces and i will be running windows 8 on my dekstops and laptops.

Apple can't match that so its not even on my radar.

[Interficium]

Wha? And how is the 920 not durable/unable to be held in one hand? It's strange that you say the 920 is for tech nerds. A lot of the tech updates were made for ease of use (wireless charging, improve screen touch sensitivity, screen viewability improvements, and even the image stabilization). Considering the iPhone 5 lacks one big killer feature this year, a fallback defense is "but look at the processor and GPU improvements!"

It's killer feature is that you can actually go to the store and buy one, starting next week.

The 920 doesn't even have a release date.

[CrankyJay]

What is the outlook for WP looking like these days? Those of us who've followed the 920 know it's a great piece of equipment, but I haven't heard shit about 3rd party developers being interested in making software for it. I know Windows 8 Metro apps will be somewhat cross-compatible with the phone, but it's hard for me to bet the next 2 years (dat contract) on an mobile OS with very little 3rd party credibility atm and a marketshare so small Webster would laugh at it. Feels like a gamble. idk.

I'm actually really impressed with Windows mobile but they got a later start than they should have...some interface designs and apps look fucking incredible and are snappy, but in the end most app support is on Apple iOS for sure.

I think Windows phones can hold their own if they tie it in well with the Windows ecosystem and get some good PR to show off what it can do.

Another reason I'd like to get into it is because I'm a Windows .NET developer so I'm hoping my knowledge of C# etc will port nicely into me making mobile apps.

[eastmen]

Nope. I'm responding to Anton's blanket statement, which he explained was a miscommunication on his part.

I'm just telling you how it read and the reason I responded how I did . If you didn't mean it to sound that way then its all good .

[Flo_Evans]

I was hoping that Apple pushed NFC in order to increase support and usage for everybody since it's standarized. They have the numbers and weight to push adoption. I know, I know, it's crazy to think about things outside of a vs. match.

I just don't get the NFC love.

It's not really all that faster than paying by credit/debit.

[Tobor]

If they had a REAL NFC solution ready, I'd certainly be amazed. Not like the half-assed crap Google is doing with it. I'm talking deals with carriers, credit card companies, retailers, etc. all ready to go so you can pay and use passes, membership cards, etc. with your phone.

How about advanced fingerprint scanning tech built in instead of typing a pin?

I was hoping that Apple pushed NFC in order to increase support and usage for everybody since it's standarized. They have the numbers and weight to push adoption. I know, I know, it's crazy to think about things outside of a vs. match.

One more year. I'd love to see it now as well.

[Interficium]

If they had a REAL NFC solution ready, I'd certainly be amazed. Not like the half-assed crap Google is doing with it. I'm talking deals with carriers, credit card companies, retailers, etc. all ready to go so you can pay and use passes, membership cards, etc. with your phone.

Not happening anytime soon. Just look what a mess the whole Isis project is becoming.

[border]

It's strange that you say the 920 is for tech nerds. A lot of the tech updates were made for ease of use (wireless charging, improve screen touch sensitivity, screen viewability improvements, and even the image stabilization). Considering the iPhone 5 lacks one big killer feature this year, a fallback defense is "but look at the processor and GPU improvements!"

You could just as easily flip this statement and point out that the Lumia 920 does not have one big killer feature, and the fallback defense is "But look at all these improvements to the screen and camera!"

Did Apple really not endorse "half-baked" ideas, or do you think they're half-baked because Apple didn't endorse them? When did NFC and wireless charging suddenly become half-baked technologies?

Ignore my estimation of those technologies and consider the question. Would NFC, wireless charging, Face Unlock, etc really have made the iPhone 5 exciting?

[Mammoth Jones]

Fuck a payment system being tied to my phone. It's easy enough to steal credit cards and bank accounts by being a long lost overseas prince that has millions of dollars for you in customs and just needs your checking info to get it transferred to you.

I'd hate to worry and deal with my phone being even more of a target for thieves.

[twofold]

Wha? And how is the 920 not durable/unable to be held in one hand? It's strange that you say the 920 is for tech nerds. A lot of the tech updates were made for ease of use (wireless charging, improve screen touch sensitivity, screen viewability improvements, and even the image stabilization). Considering the iPhone 5 lacks one big killer feature this year, a fallback defense is "but look at the processor and GPU improvements!"

The 920 is thick and has a large screen which makes it difficult to use with one hand, especially for those with smaller hands. Brian Klug of Anandtech said on their latest podcast that he had to hold the hand with two hands and he found it to be quite heavy. Apple wants their phones to be light and comfortable to use one handed by everyone.. Not just people with giant hands.

Maybe tech nerds was the wrong term. They're obviously made for a different audience than the iPhone, though. As such, both products have different trade offs.

Bingo. Who was clamoring for size/weight reductions for the 4S? It's a nice improvement, but it boils down to being a "it's the lightest/thinnest phone ever!" bullet point...and that's it.

Josh Topolsky from The Verge said that there was an "immediate noticeable difference". When people pick up a 920 and an iPhone 5, the difference in size and weight will be immediately clear.

[eastmen]

It's killer feature is that you can actually go to the store and buy one, starting next week. The 920 doesn't even have a release date.

not really , preorders sold out in 2 hours. You most likely wont be able to go into a store and buy one until october.

[eastmen]

The 920 is thick and has a large screen which makes it difficult to use with one hand, especially for those with smaller hands. Brian Klug of Anandtech said on their latest podcast that he had to hold the hand with two hands and he found it to be quite heavy. Apple wants their phones to be light and comfortable to use one handed by everyone.. Not just people with giant hands. Maybe tech nerds was the wrong term. They're obviously made for a different audience than the iPhone, though. As such, both products have different trade offs.

except smaller phones work worse for people with bigger hands. I already know the iphone 4s was to small for me and my hands would cramp using it.

Josh Topolsky from The Verge said that there was an "immediate noticeable difference". When people pick up a 920 and an iPhone 5, the difference in size and weight will be immediately clear.

and you know whats also immediately clear ? The 920 has the larger higher retnia display.

but would you really expect the verge or engadget to not be on their knees for Apple. Come on