[Kyoufu]

I am open to dating anybody I am sexually attracted to.

[SonnyBoy]

Nope.

[Moaradin]

Maybe. I'd like to consider myself open to all possibilities.

[Devolution]

One thing I've always wondered about this viewpoint (I have no personal opinion) is how it translates into real world effects. If someone identifies as "Gender less / Gender neutral" are they immune to anything male or female specific?

Not immune but compulsory actions based on gender is becoming less and less in many places anyway since it's deemed sexist in one way or another.

If a male who identifies as female but looks like, say, your stereotypical trucker, who just can't afford treatments be allowed to use a female restroom?

Yes? What kind of question is this. Whichever gender a person identifies as should be allowed to utilize that restroom. I'm not really a fan of this line of questioning since it usually plays on the fears of trans women utilizing the women's restroom. It's plenty insulting. If people were more decent and less insecure there would be large unisex restrooms anyone could use.

Where are the lines? Who draws them?

All kinds of people. Society. People can erase and expand them though.

[commedieu]

Er, no man, I wasn't dissing you at all, why would you think that?

its now 4am :\ could be something to do with it. Musta read it wrong...

Totally blanked on hormones connection to odor too...

I think its time to stop posting.

Good night folks. Enjoy the day.

[beje]

I-I don't know... I don't know much about switching sexes, if a man has an operation to become a woman. Would there still be physical differences between the (now her) and a biologically born woman?

Aside for the obvious part of inability to conceive, most likely you wouldn't ever notice if the doctors were good and the hormone replacement therapy prior to the surgery itself worked its way as expected. Yes, there are some signs or hints to say it some way that you can notice if you start inspecting closely but some biological women have an adam apple and big hands/feet too so you it's not a rule of thumb. The whole bias and anecdotal evidence about transgendered women and men being "not passable" as their desired gender comes exactly from the few that sadly are not and you notice in public.

[Trey]

Your edit doesn't assist in any way. They're declaring that the transgendered individual is their biological sex. This is discriminating against how they identify.

It's discriminating them based on binary gender definitions which intrinsically discriminates against transsexuals. The requirement to be drafted into the military is based on being physically a male/being born a male and not what you identify as. If it was, they might as well not have male exclusive drafts in the first place, which was what I was saying.

[Jeff Albertson]

I am open to dating anybody I am sexually attracted to.

Hi there!

Is that you in your avatar :p

[krioto]

Love the moral outrage over the use of ladyboy - the usual faces.

In answer to the question - no

[DiscoShark]

I'd have no qualms dating a trans women. Whatever works.

[Devolution]

It's discriminating them based on binary gender definitions which intrinsically discriminates against transsexuals. The requirement to be drafted into the military is based on being physically a male/being born a male and not what you identify as. If it was, they might as well not have male exclusive drafts in the first place, which was what I was saying.

The draft doesn't really matter. The government is essentially saying "you are a man you must serve" when they identify as a woman. I don't understand why you're acting like conscription based on gender is entangled in the government ignoring gender identification. They are two separate distinct things.

[Fusebox]

Yes? What kind of question is this. Whichever gender a person identifies as should be allowed to utilize that restroom.

A nice enough sentiment, but I'd rather not have men sharing restrooms with my missus just because they say they're a woman trapped in a mans body.

[Devolution]

A nice enough sentiment, but I'd rather not have men sharing restrooms with my missus just because they say they're a woman trapped in a mans body.

This is just plain ignorant. Time for bed anyway.

[Foliorum Viridum]

I don't think I'd be comfortable knowing that she was once a man. Nah, don't think I could do it.

There's no real logical argument for it other than the genetics thing, but it's something I don't think I could open my mind up enough to so that I could date one. I consider myself open minded but that's a little too far for me.

[commedieu]

A nice enough sentiment, but I'd rather not have men sharing restrooms with my missus just because they say they're a woman trapped in a mans body.

[Fusebox]

Let's be specific here, the question was about sharing restrooms with a transgendered person who hasn't made any steps at all toward exhibiting their 'true' gender.


You know there's a good reason we have separate restrooms for men and women right? If I decide to go into a woman's restroom having made no attempt at all to embrace my 'inner woman' other than just saying it then that raises all kinds of safety and privacy issues.

[commedieu]

You know there's a good reason we have separate restrooms for men and women right? If I decide to go into a woman's restroom having made no attempt at all to embrace my 'inner woman' other than just saying it then that raises all kinds of safety and privacy issues.

OH MY GOD. Stop

[Conor 419]

Then I guess I...would?

[Gustav]

Can a man identifying as a woman show his/her nipples on US TV? Just asking.

[Fusebox]

OH MY GOD. Stop

Why not give it a try sometime, get a guy to walk into a women's restroom and see how comfortable the other women in there are with that.

[FyreWulff]

You know there's a good reason we have separate restrooms for men and women right? If I decide to go into a woman's restroom having made no attempt at all to embrace my 'inner woman' other than just saying it then that raises all kinds of safety and privacy issues.

[oldendays]You realize there's a good reason we have separate restrooms for blacks and whites right?[/oldendays]

Please, disclose these safety and privacy issues. Safety? Uh what. Privacy? Every toilet is a stall. There's your privacy.

I don't see a reason why it'd be dangerous to let a transgendered person into the restroom of the gender they identify with.

[zoukka]

Why not give it a try sometime, get a guy to walk into a women's restroom and see how comfortable the other women in there are with that.

Why?

[Conor 419]

No fucking word of a lie, a fucking barrage of armed trans-woman have just stormed into my house and demanded that I 'put [my] fucking money where [my] mouth is'

They're fucking everywhere

help

[Fusebox]

[oldendays]You realize there's a good reason we have separate restrooms for blacks and whites right?[/oldendays]

I guess appreciating that women don't want to share public restrooms with men makes me conservative.

[FyreWulff]

I guess appreciating that women don't want to share public restrooms with men makes me conservative.

Which restroom do these people use, then?

[Fusebox]

Which restroom do these people use, then?

I think you missed the original proposition if you think that's related to what I was saying.

[commedieu]

Why not give it a try sometime, get a guy to walk into a women's restroom and see how comfortable the other women in there are with that.

I frequent establishments with unisex bathrooms, but that is because I live in a modern world where people using the restroom are using the restroom in the privacy of stalls.

I understand your point, but you're abusing logic. Inherently a MAN in a bathroom full of women, is going to make women feel uncomfortable as he isn't supposed to be there. However, most people would use their common sense to make the judgement on which restroom they should use, at that point in their process. Its just abundantly ridiculous to think that you have a good point, based on the equally ridiculous premise that people can't make judgement calls.

Which Is why I suggest you stop. The mission to Gotcha Dev with restroom arguments is the same as bringing up discomfort in male restrooms because a gay is standing next to you in the stall.

You win no points for your commentary about restrooms. And your wife would be perfectly fine with a transgender person using the restroom in the same room as her.


And yes, for context.. you're replying to dev, who was replying to someones absurdity;

If a male who identifies as female but looks like, say, your stereotypical trucker, who just can't afford treatments be allowed to use a female restroom?

[zoukka]

I guess appreciating that women don't want to share public restrooms with men makes me conservative.

But the people in question aren't exactly "men". And I'm pretty sure they can make the correct decision of which bathroom to use.

[FyreWulff]

I think you missed the original proposition if you think that's related to what I was saying.

So, it's only okay for males that present as women to use the restroom, but it's not okay for males that present as women to use the restroom. In other words, your double standard is quite evident.

Come on, tell us what you really want to say about why you don't want transwomen in the women's restroom. Don't give me a cop out answer.

[Fusebox]

So, it's only okay for males that present as women to use the restroom, but it's not okay for males that present as women to use the restroom. In other words, your double standard is quite evident. Come on, tell us what you really want to say about why you don't want transwomen in the women's restroom. Don't give me a cop out answer.

That makes no sense with regards to what I'm saying. Go back, read the flow of posts and try again if you must.

Inherently a MAN in a bathroom full of women, is going to make women feel uncomfortable as he isn't supposed to be there.

Which is why I suggested they should use the mens bathroom.

The mission to Gotcha Dev with restroom arguments is the same as bringing up discomfort in male restrooms because a gay is standing next to you in the stall.

Not sure how you make that connection, I don't agree.

And your wife would be perfectly fine with a transgender person using the restroom in the same room as her.

But how is she supposed to know the man that just walked into the female restroom behind her is actually a woman trapped in a mans body?

[Uncle0wnage]

I'd rather not have female-to-male transsexuals use the men's restroom. The men's restrooms are dirty enough, they don't need to become even more like the women's restroom. I like my walls free of shit and period blood.
/s

[Trey]

The draft doesn't really matter. The government is essentially saying "you are a man you must serve" when they identify as a woman. I don't understand why you're acting like conscription based on gender is entangled in the government ignoring gender identification. They are two separate distinct things.

When conscription is based on gender primarily, if not alone, the distinction you're trying to establish doesn't exist. The premises by which men are drafted extend to those males who identify as women, therefore they are drafted. The question then becomes under what metric is one scrutinized to determine whether a person should serve or not.

[ReBurn]

I've never been in the situation where it was a possibility. I don't know what I would do.

[Gustav]

I frequent establishments with unisex bathrooms, but that is because I live in a modern world where people using the restroom are using the restroom in the privacy of stalls.

This is probably the most bloated statement in this whole thread. Good for you if your world is supremely modern and hip but it certainly isn't the reality out there.

[Fularu]

I want kids, so no.

This is prety much the heart of the problem. If I didn't want kids, I wouldn't have a problem, provided I'm attracted to the person.

[zoukka]

But how is she supposed to know the man that just walked into the female restroom behind her is actually a woman trapped in a mans body?

Again, they are rational human beings. If they cause a havoc every time they walk into a womens bathroom, I think they have the brain capacity to figure something out.

I want kids, so no. This is prety much the heart of the problem. If I didn't want kids, I wouldn't have a problem, provided I'm attracted to the person.

You want kids with everyone you date?

[AShep]

Which restroom do these people use, then?

On the whole, women feel uncomfortable sharing a public bathroom with men and you're being disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

I don't necessarily agree with the guy you're replying to but don't pretend that that particular point isn't true.

[HomShaBom]

Hell no.

[Gustav]

Again, they are rational human beings. If they cause a havoc every time they walk into a womens bathroom, I think they have the brain capacity to figure something out.

And are they being discriminated against if they "cause a havoc"?

[Snkfanatic]

I am open to dating anybody I am sexually attracted to.

This, if I am attracted to them physically and I like their personality I would without a doubt.

[Jo Shishido's Cheeks]

This has either a) been mentioned numerous times or b) the discussion has already moved on so apologies in advance for the potential redundancy, but...

I find the outrage over the term 'ladyboy' a little strange considering in Thailand, it's an accepted and almost affectionate term.
Transgender people at times refer to themselves as 'ladyboys' just as I have known gay people to refer to themselves and others as 'queers' or 'fags', a Japanese student at my university frequently refer to 'Japs' and, of course, many black people using the n word.

If a word is accepted within a 'community' (for want of a better grouping) then why do those outside the 'community' so often get outraged regarding terms that often don't involve/include themselves?

[commedieu]

This is probably the most bloated statement in this whole thread. Good for you if your world is supremely modern and hip but it certainly isn't the reality out there.

Thanks! I enjoy it too.. A person told me to try something, I let him know that his reality isn't all reality. Just as you're pointing out to me.

[FyreWulff]

That makes no sense with regards to what I'm saying. Go back, read the flow of posts and try again if you must.

You're saying you're scared of a man being in the women's restroom. People with AIS are genetically male, but in most cases present 100% as a woman, including having a vagina (sans uterus).

So what you really want to say is you're fine with a transwomen being in the women's restroom, but only if they look feminine enough and had an operation to change their genitalia.

What about transmen in the male restroom?

[Uncle0wnage]

Thanks! I enjoy it too.. A person told me to try something, I let him know that his reality isn't all reality. Just as you're pointing out to me.

I think he was just getting at the fact that many places do not have unisex bathrooms, only male or female bathrooms.

[Gustav]

Thanks! I enjoy it too.. A person told me to try something, I let him know that his reality isn't all reality. Just as you're pointing out to me.

Problem is, the other person is describing the defacto standard. You're not.

[SmokyDave]

I frequent establishments with unisex bathrooms, but that is because I live in a modern world where people using the restroom are using the restroom in the privacy of stalls.

Where I work we have a unisex bathroom but the girls ask that if any dude goes in there we hang a sign outside. They really don't like it. Personally, I don't care.

Not sure why I'm mentioning that. Cultural differences are interesting.

[Fusebox]

You're saying you're scared of a man being in the women's restroom.

No, I'm not saying that.

So what you really want to say is you're fine with a transwomen being in the women's restroom, but only if they look feminine enough and had an operation to change their genitalia.

And surprise surprise, I'm not saying that either.

[Zoe]

You want kids with everyone you date?

Is it really so odd that some people only date with the intention of getting serious?

[commedieu]

Problem is, the other person is describing the defacto standard. You're not.

Problem is, you couldn't get past my bloated statement to see that I understood what he was talking about.

[zoukka]

And are they being discriminated against if they "cause a havoc"?

Impossible to answer though of course no-one should go and cause havoc just cuz.

Is it really so odd that some people only date with the intention of getting serious?

Now that you mention it, yeah it's not unheard of. I just don't know many people like that.