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markot
Junior Member
(10-03-2012, 07:07 AM)
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The Secret World post-mortem: "No, it's not going free-to-play any time soon"

By Robert Purchese Published 2 October, 2012

"We need to prove this business model has not gone the way of the dinosaur."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-any-time-soon
Tomat
Member
(10-03-2012, 07:09 AM)
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I'm okay with this, I don't like the idea of MMOs going F2P with content locked behind LOADS A MONEY.

Good for them though, because people like Freakinchair will probably still pay for their subscription even though they don't play passed the first week.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
(10-03-2012, 07:13 AM)
Uh, Secret World's model is Full Price retail game with Full Price subscription on top of Microtransaction for practically all vanity items.

It's a complete rip off.
DTKT
Member
(10-03-2012, 07:14 AM)
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MMO's are in such a weird place. They feel like big old lumbering dinosaurs, just about to go extinct be get replaced by the new and fresh thing. Free to play games pretty much crushed anything that isn't World of Warcraft.

My hope is that we see more things like DayZ and Eve Online. Persistent worlds that give the players a couple of tools and say "Go nuts".
graywolf323
Member
(10-03-2012, 07:32 AM)
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it doesn't need to go F2P but get rid of the monthly fee
Sinatar
Official GAF Bottom Feeder
(10-03-2012, 07:41 AM)
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They need to prove this business model is viable by running their utter trainwreck of a game into the ground?

Uh ok.
fizzelopeguss
Member
(10-03-2012, 07:45 AM)
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What an embarrassing interview for them, talk about living in a vacuum.
Grayman
Member
(10-03-2012, 07:47 AM)

Originally Posted by DTKT

MMO's are in such a weird place. They feel like big old lumbering dinosaurs, just about to go extinct be get replaced by the new and fresh thing. Free to play games pretty much crushed anything that isn't World of Warcraft.

My hope is that we see more things like DayZ and Eve Online. Persistent worlds that give the players a couple of tools and say "Go nuts".

Eve is actually sustainable with a smaller than wow playerbase and has shown growth. post wow everyone budgeted for wow numbers and failed at doing ffxi numbers. games that really target a niche may still find subscriptions working.
aett
Member
(10-03-2012, 07:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shining Sunshine

Uh, Secret World's model is Full Price retail game with Full Price subscription on top of Microtransaction for practically all vanity items.

It's a complete rip off.

It's the same with TERA. How can they charge $10 for a cosmetic weapon skin when you're paying $15 a month to play the game?
CheesecakeRecipe
Member
(10-03-2012, 07:48 AM)
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This game has not been doing well at all, everyone I know who was on it pretty much gave up playing. It's not in a healthy state, and having a triple layered payment method is just a poor choice. If they don't adapt fast it is going to crash and burn harder.
bobbychalkers
Member
(10-03-2012, 07:51 AM)
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I'm no expert on the inner-workings of MMO management but why is the Guild Wars model not used very often? Buy once and play forever.
DiscoJer
Junior Member
(10-03-2012, 07:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by bobbychalkers

I'm no expert on the inner-workings of MMO management but why is the Guild Wars model not used very often? Buy once and play forever.

I would guess because they want people to pay them more money than just $50.
Dram
Member
(10-03-2012, 08:01 AM)

Originally Posted by Sinatar

They need to prove this business model is viable by running their utter trainwreck of a game into the ground?

Uh ok.

So, what went wrong with the game?
Shining Sunshine
Banned
(10-03-2012, 08:01 AM)

Originally Posted by bobbychalkers

I'm no expert on the inner-workings of MMO management but why is the Guild Wars model not used very often? Buy once and play forever.

Guild Wars pushes out "campaigns" or expansions really quickly and requires another full $50 price for each campaign/expansion.

They may not have subscription, but they are pretty much getting the subscription money through this method.

I have no doubt GW2 is going to be the same way since it's already lacking content.

Originally Posted by Dram

So, what went wrong with the game?

Apart from the pricing, the game sucks. The lore is uninteresting, the combat is janky, the quest design is terrible.
You can get all this buy playing the trial. It gets bad real fast.
Des0lar
will learn eventually
(10-03-2012, 08:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dram

So, what went wrong with the game?

It's a subscription MMO
Grayman
Member
(10-03-2012, 08:03 AM)

Originally Posted by bobbychalkers

I'm no expert on the inner-workings of MMO management but why is the Guild Wars model not used very often? Buy once and play forever.

guild wars is the only game that has done it really. The first guild wars was more like a diablo game with towns as bnet too. So the only game to even attempt this model in an mmo has only been out for a month and a half.

Income of GW2 is going to rely on cosmetics only and full price expansions which release every 12/18/24? months. Something like Lord of the Rings Online having a lot of cash store stuff and selling 10 dollar classes and adventures may be more lucrative.

I have played free games for a weekend and paid 5-10 bucks while costing no upkeeping. If I play guild wars for years their 60 bucks and no alternate income is not looking as good.
The M.O.B
important Canuck facts
(10-03-2012, 08:05 AM)
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We need to prove this business model has not gone the way of the dinosaur.

Subscriptions? I hope it does

Originally Posted by Shining Sunshine

I have no doubt GW2 is going to be the same way since it's already lacking content.

L O L
etiolate
Banned
(10-03-2012, 08:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by bobbychalkers

I'm no expert on the inner-workings of MMO management but why is the Guild Wars model not used very often? Buy once and play forever.

I always felt the GW model would work well for Secret World. As for why it's not used more often. the reasons are likely due to planning. I think if you're going down that path then you have to budget for it from the start. TSW was budgeted as a sub MMO, and one with micro-transaction sales, too.
Woakes
Member
(10-03-2012, 08:17 AM)
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Subscription games tend to make me play with that certain extra incentive to get my subscriptions worth that may be a little less casual than how I'd approach a free to play game. Given that, I'd suggest that as a subscription game, The Secret World launched with far too little content.

I don't think subscription games are dead, indeed I personally believe free to play is the most heinous thing to ever happen to mmorpgs; But now you'd better release a third of a games worth of content a month if your charging me a third of a games retail a month, or launch with at least an Elder Scrolls games worth!
Last edited by Woakes; 10-03-2012 at 08:25 AM.
mr_toa
Member
(10-03-2012, 08:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by DiscoJer

I would guess because they want people to pay them more money than just $50.

Pretty much this.
derFeef
lil' bit tasty
(10-03-2012, 08:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shining Sunshine

Apart from the pricing, the game sucks. The lore is uninteresting, the combat is janky, the quest design is terrible.
You can get all this buy playing the trial. It gets bad real fast.

I am sorry part lore and quests are a standout here, so different and interesting compared to other mmo's. And it get's better the longer you play. The start of this game is the worst part sadly and it will turn many players off (subway section).

Originally Posted by bobbychalkers

I'm no expert on the inner-workings of MMO management but why is the Guild Wars model not used very often? Buy once and play forever.

Because it has the biggest MMO publisher behind it, they have tons of MMOs that bring them money on a regular basis. GW2 is a big budget game, TSW is a rather small budget game. Funcom is a small company compared to arenanet.
Last edited by derFeef; 10-03-2012 at 08:55 AM.
Ken
Member
(10-03-2012, 09:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by CheesecakeRecipe

This game has not been doing well at all, everyone I know who was on it pretty much gave up playing. It's not in a healthy state, and having a triple layered payment method is just a poor choice. If they don't adapt fast it is going to crash and burn harder.

Triple-layered payment method?
crimsonheadGCN
4chan's Official Representative
(10-03-2012, 09:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ken

Triple-layered payment method?

It is a subscription based MMO with microtransactions.
Htown
Banned
(10-03-2012, 09:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shining Sunshine

Uh, Secret World's model is Full Price retail game with Full Price subscription on top of Microtransaction for practically all vanity items.

It's a complete rip off.

Bingo.
inky
Member
(10-03-2012, 09:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ken

Triple-layered payment method?

1. Full Price
2. Monthly Fee
3. Micro-transactions
etiolate
Banned
(10-03-2012, 09:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by derFeef

I am sorry part lore and quests are a standout here, so different and interesting compared to other mmo's. And it get's better the longer you play. The start of this game is the worst part sadly and it will turn many players off (subway section).



Because it has the biggest MMO publisher behind it, they have tons of MMOs that bring them money on a regular basis. GW2 is a big budget game, TSW is a rather small budget game. Funcom is a small company compared to arenanet.

Actually, I don't think ANet is a bigger company. I imagine Funcom and them have roughly the same amount of employees. It's NCSoft that is the big publisher.


I don't really understand where their "we need to prove subs aren't extinct" line comes from. Why do they need to be the savior? Who cares? So silly.
Last edited by etiolate; 10-03-2012 at 09:50 AM.
derFeef
lil' bit tasty
(10-03-2012, 09:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by etiolate

Actually, I don't think ANet is a bigger company. I imagine Funcom and them have roughly the same amount of employees. It's NCSoft that is the big publisher.

Ah yeah, that's waht I meant :)

edit: About the microtransactions. If I would not have gotten some free points for beta testing, I would not have bought anything in the item store. Everything you can get with ingame money is better looking, and the rewards for exploration/missions are also far better.
Well, except the bunny slippers ;)
Last edited by derFeef; 10-03-2012 at 09:54 AM.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
(10-03-2012, 09:54 AM)

Originally Posted by Shining Sunshine

Uh, Secret World's model is Full Price retail game with Full Price subscription on top of Microtransaction for practically all vanity items.

It's a complete rip off.

.
Neo 007
Member
(10-03-2012, 09:55 AM)
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I'd honestly be surprised if Funcom is still in business in 2 yrs time.

Age of Conan could have been a great game but the first major expansion (Katai area) introduced painful grinding and subsequently killed it for many subscribers.

A great opportunity sadly missed.
Victrix
*beard*
(10-03-2012, 09:55 AM)
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Funcom is a stunningly inept company that somehow managed to acquire a handful of completely amazing world designers.

Anarchy Online was amazing, Shadowlands was holy shit amazing.

Age of Conan tried really hard to stick to the feel of the Conan novels.

And Secret World has some rather cool cthonic horrors.

All are marred by godawful tech, horrendous gameplay issues, hilarious bugs, unbelievably awful customer serivce, and head-in-the-sand development practices.

This announcement surprises me this much: --><--

Whoever designed AO and Shadowlands though, please go join a real company and make something new and amazing if you haven't already, because I want to explore more of your crazy genius brain.
WARP10CK
Member
(10-03-2012, 10:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Victrix

Funcom is a stunningly inept company that somehow managed to acquire a handful of completely amazing world designers.

Anarchy Online was amazing, Shadowlands was holy shit amazing.

Age of Conan tried really hard to stick to the feel of the Conan novels.

And Secret World has some rather cool cthonic horrors.

All are marred by godawful tech, horrendous gameplay issues, hilarious bugs, unbelievably awful customer serivce, and head-in-the-sand development practices.

This announcement surprises me this much: --><--

Whoever designed AO and Shadowlands though, please go join a real company and make something new and amazing if you haven't already, because I want to explore more of your crazy genius brain.


Yeah and they are sitting on a goldmine franchise as well: The Longest Journey and Dreamfall people are screaming for a sequel.
NZNova
Member
(10-03-2012, 10:14 AM)
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Not free to play? I guess it can stay at don't play then.
someguyinahat
Member
(10-03-2012, 02:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by WARP10CK

Yeah and they are sitting on a goldmine franchise as well: The Longest Journey and Dreamfall people are screaming for a sequel.

It's a GOOD franchise. But it's still a point-and-click adventure and as such, probably not a "goldmine."
BattleMonkey
Member
(10-03-2012, 02:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by graywolf323

it doesn't need to go F2P but get rid of the monthly fee

More games should just do this, buy the game, play for free after that.
Arksy
Member
(10-03-2012, 02:44 PM)
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It's so ridiculous that all these games go south because they use a completely outdated business model. I'm glad it's profitable for them but it just smells of madness.
SJRB
Member
(10-03-2012, 02:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shining Sunshine

Uh, Secret World's model is Full Price retail game with Full Price subscription on top of Microtransaction for practically all vanity items.

It's a complete rip off.

Indeed it is, which is why I canceled my subscription last month.
SuperSonic1305
(10-03-2012, 02:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shining Sunshine


Apart from the pricing, the game sucks. The lore is uninteresting, the combat is janky, the quest design is terrible.
You can get all this buy playing the trial. It gets bad real fast.

This is a load of BS.
ChosenPredator
Member
(10-03-2012, 02:53 PM)
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it needs to go balls out and stay subscription like the OG ultima online, I take it UO is still subscription based?
spootime
Banned
(10-03-2012, 02:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Victrix

Funcom is a stunningly inept company that somehow managed to acquire a handful of completely amazing world designers.

Anarchy Online was amazing, Shadowlands was holy shit amazing.

Age of Conan tried really hard to stick to the feel of the Conan novels.

And Secret World has some rather cool cthonic horrors.

All are marred by godawful tech, horrendous gameplay issues, hilarious bugs, unbelievably awful customer serivce, and head-in-the-sand development practices.

This announcement surprises me this much: --><--

Whoever designed AO and Shadowlands though, please go join a real company and make something new and amazing if you haven't already, because I want to explore more of your crazy genius brain.

Funcom made mind-bogglingly retarded decisions in Age of Conan... nice to see things haven't changed much :)
CambriaRising
Member
(10-03-2012, 02:54 PM)
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Then this game will die a slow and painful death.
BattleMonkey
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(10-03-2012, 02:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shining Sunshine



Apart from the pricing, the game sucks. The lore is uninteresting, the combat is janky, the quest design is terrible.
You can get all this buy playing the trial. It gets bad real fast.

TSW was a train wreck, but the quest design was some of the best of any MMO out there. Really great stuff that created unique fresh experiences for a MMO unlike everything else out there which is just variations of fetch/kill X item quests. Lore is also quite good, but shouldn't have been part of a MMO game, it feels odd stuck in a game full of hundreds of other players running around.

But yea the combat is pretty poor, I'll agree to that.
Damian.
Member
(10-03-2012, 02:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by graywolf323

it doesn't need to go F2P but get rid of the monthly fee

This 100%. There is absolutely no problem with an MMO being a full priced $60 game, but the $15 a month fee thereafter is ludicrous.
spindoctor
Member
(10-03-2012, 05:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by someguyinahat

It's a GOOD franchise. But it's still a point-and-click adventure and as such, probably not a "goldmine."

It's relative to the investment made. They can't put in 20 million dollars into another TLJ game and expect it to work, but with a modest budget there's no reason that it can't be profitable. There seems to be something of a resurgence of these kinds of games in the new indie/kickstarter era.

As for the Secret World, I imagine the number of people who actually still believe that it won't go free to play must be very small. The group probably wouldn't even cover all the current subscribers of the game, so I'm not sure who they're trying to fool with this interview. I expect a lot more MMOs will start to use the GW2 model from now on. Base price + cosmetics/services/character slots microtransactions with no sub.
MattKeil
BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
(10-03-2012, 05:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by SuperSonic1305

This is a load of BS.

Is it? I don't think the lore is uninteresting, but the combat is unquestionably janky.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
(10-03-2012, 05:30 PM)

Originally Posted by BattleMonkey

TSW was a train wreck, but the quest design was some of the best of any MMO out there. Really great stuff that created unique fresh experiences for a MMO unlike everything else out there which is just variations of fetch/kill X item quests. Lore is also quite good, but shouldn't have been part of a MMO game, it feels odd stuck in a game full of hundreds of other players running around.

But yea the combat is pretty poor, I'll agree to that.

Uh I dunno about you, but the first couple dozen quests I done were fetch/kill x quests.

And the fact that you can only have a limited number of quests in your log makes it worse.
derFeef
lil' bit tasty
(10-03-2012, 05:38 PM)
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The only bad missions in TSW are the sabotage ones. Stealth is not working great with this so don't build missions around that. Hopefully they can improve that in the future. Love the investigation missions though and most of the action missions are great too - also love that there is no mission hub or the likes.

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