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Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(10-20-2012, 04:30 PM)
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BioWare had a panel about Dragon Age at the Edmonton Expo where they revealed some new details.

There will be a video of the panel eventually.

Originally Posted by Nirolak

I'm going to make a comprehensive thread later, but for now I'll dump tidbits in here:

They reconfirmed it is being recorded and will be shown later.

"Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
John Perry said he's had a longer pre-production on DA3 than any other BioWare project he's worked on. "

"Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
JP said just one level in #DA3 is as big as all of DA2's levels "

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
Haha Mike "here's a castle... And you *cough*... may or may not take control of it" pic.twitter.com/PvWXY2fa

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
Mike: customization is going to be bigger than Dragon age origins. Follower customization etc. #DA3

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
Question: how much control will you have over your character... Mike "you will be human" #DA3

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
David answering "backgrounds will be in DA3 even though you will be human, it's not playable but it does significant impact on the story"

They also mentioned once again that the game is coming out late Fall 2013, so think October/November.

Originally Posted by Post Panel Twitter

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw
Sorry, for those who love elves and dwarves, but long term I’d like to see all four races playable. Future plans!

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw
@JayWhite73 Human, Elf, Dwarf, “Qunari” (Kossith, in truth)

Originally Posted by Jibbajabbawockky

Looks like the concept art they showed at the panel:http://blog.bioware.com/2012/10/20/f...n-concept-art/





Also EatChildren and myself think the below are 3D models from the game.



Last edited by Nirolak; 10-21-2012 at 05:12 AM.
Syraxith
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(10-20-2012, 04:33 PM)
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Err... who're those guys?
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(10-20-2012, 04:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Syraxith

Err... who're those guys?

Canadian ministers.

Edit: The government kind, not the religious kind.
Syraxith
Member
(10-20-2012, 04:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak


Edit: The government kind, not the religious kind.

Yeah I figured as much.

They won't be smiling when EA reaches the eventual and ultimately inevitable decision to downsize Bioware EA Edmonton. Reduction of any studio is bad for the canadian gov, especially since they seem to be betting on it for a sizable protion of their country's economy.
Last edited by Syraxith; 10-20-2012 at 04:45 PM.
Eusis
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(10-20-2012, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Syraxith

Yeah I figured as much.

They won't be smiling when EA reaches the eventual and ultimately inevitable decision to downsize Bioware EA Edmonton.

Eh, Bioware's central studios will probably keep their names to the end. Literally.
Stumpokapow
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(10-20-2012, 04:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

Canadian ministers.

Edit: The government kind, not the religious kind.

To be specific, the older of the two (Laurie Hawn) is not a minister, he's an MP. You're only a minister if you have an executive branch portfolio of running a department. Sounds like you didn't take Canadian Politics in University!
Pranay_
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(10-20-2012, 04:42 PM)
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Really Excited for this game
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(10-20-2012, 04:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stumpokapow

To be specific, the older of the two (Laurie Hawn) is not a minister, he's an MP. You're only a minister if you have an executive branch portfolio of running a department. Sounds like you didn't take Canadian Politics in University!

You got me!
Jibbajabbawockky
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(10-20-2012, 05:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by HP_Wuvcraft

Yeah, as much as I'd like to think it's a longer dev cycle , exactly how much longer is nagging me.

Yeah, considering they're moving everything to an entirely new engine too, I wonder how much time is going to be simply spent on the technical side of things making sure their tools work and are up to par. I'm not quite sold on Frostbite simply being a panacea to everything for Dragon Age like some people think it'll be.

Originally Posted by HP_Wuvcraft

Considering BW isn't really going to ever make an IE-type game again, I see a few flaws in this protest.

Eh... Considering they heavily marketed Origins as a modern update to the IE games like BG, I think its a fine point. No doubt there will be comparisons to the 2 games when they get closer to release. Dragon Age's big thing was that it was a party based game and more or less the only one being made by a big developer. Now there is Project Eternity for them to deal with. Sure, its a bit apples and oranges seeing as Project Eternity won't be a console game, but I think at least originally, Dragon Age was shooting for the market Project Eternity seemed to take in. Hell, I pledged $140 to PE but I'd be highly reluctant to ever give a BioWare game that kind of money after DA2.

But if BioWare put together a smaller team with a smaller budget to make an Infinity Engine style Dragon Age game? I'd be all over that.

Originally Posted by Nirolak


There will be a panel in a few hours that will probably have more, though I'll move that and other updates from the end of here to a new thread.

Is that... a scorpion man-beast silhouette? So BioWare is taking cues from the Scorpion King now?

If nothing else, I'm curious how this game will look and how they're going to try to market it after DA2 and ME3.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(10-20-2012, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jibbajabbawockky

Is that... a scorpion man-beast silhouette? So BioWare is taking cues from the Scorpion King now?

If nothing else, I'm curious how this game will look and how they're going to try to market it after DA2 and ME3.

I think it's a Tevinter Knight riding a giant scorpion.

His placement doesn't quite make sense otherwise.
SerRodrik
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(10-20-2012, 05:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jibbajabbawockky

If nothing else, I'm curious how this game will look and how they're going to try to market it after DA2 and ME3.

Yeah, I'm following this more out of curiosity about which direction they go in than out of a genuine desire to play the game.
Patryn
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(10-20-2012, 05:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by SerRodrik

Yeah, I'm following this more out of curiosity about which direction they go in than out of a genuine desire to play the game.

Color me third. The tightrope they'll have to walk of trying to bring back DA:O fans without pissing off those who liked DA2 will be fascinating to watch.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(10-20-2012, 07:33 PM)
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I'm going to make a comprehensive thread later, but for now I'll dump tidbits in here:

They reconfirmed it is being recorded and will be shown later.

"Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
John Perry said he's had a longer pre-production on DA3 than any other BioWare project he's worked on. "

"Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
JP said just one level in #DA3 is as big as all of DA2's levels "

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
Haha Mike "here's a castle... And you *cough*... may or may not take control of it" pic.twitter.com/PvWXY2fa

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
Mike: customization is going to be bigger than Dragon age origins. Follower customization etc. #DA3

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
Question: how much control will you have over your character... Mike "you will be human" #DA3

They're also showing a bunch of concept art, but it's currently really, really bad photos and they promise direct feed later so I won't bother reposting it yet.
Last edited by Nirolak; 10-20-2012 at 07:39 PM.
Data West
coaches in the WNBA
(10-20-2012, 07:41 PM)
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Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
David answering "backgrounds will be in DA3 even though you will be human, it's not playable but it does significant impact on the story"

Well, thanks for saving me from following this game, Bioware
Confidence Man
360 release: 2005
PS3 release: 2007
I need the reminder.
(10-20-2012, 07:46 PM)

Originally Posted by Patryn

Color me third. The tightrope they'll have to walk of trying to bring back DA:O fans without pissing off those who liked DA2 will be fascinating to watch.

Fuck people who liked DA2. This is what they have to say to get me interested in DA3. I mean they had no problems telling DAO fans to fuck themselves in the first place.
Kurtofan
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(10-20-2012, 07:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dragonzord

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
David answering "backgrounds will be in DA3 even though you will be human, it's not playable but it does significant impact on the story"

So basically Mass Effect.
Trigger
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(10-20-2012, 07:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dragonzord

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
David answering "backgrounds will be in DA3 even though you will be human, it's not playable but it does significant impact on the story"

Well, thanks for saving me from following this game, Bioware

So like Mass Effect then? Not a real deal breaker (since I hate the race redesigns).

EDIT- Beat! lol
Durante
I'm taking it FROM here, so says Mr. Stewart
(10-20-2012, 07:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

"Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
JP said just one level in #DA3 is as big as all of DA2's levels "

I think this says more about DA2 than DA3.

Anything about wave-based combat? Because if they stick with that, the game is not for me.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(10-20-2012, 07:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

I think this says more about DA2 than DA3.

Anything about wave-based combat? Because if they stick with that, the game is not for me.

Panel just ended, but they definitely didn't tweet everything they said.
Beth Cyra
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(10-20-2012, 07:55 PM)
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Thus far nothing that bothers me.

While I prefered being an Elf to a Human in DAO, I don't mind the ME system. Sadly though none of the tweets addressed my big concern and that is VA, if they go back to a mute lead then I will pass on it.

So long as I got a Female MC and she is VA'd then I am willing to watch the game and see if they can bring up the gameplay to be a more enjoyable experince overall.
Derrick01
Banned
(10-20-2012, 07:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

"Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
JP said just one level in #DA3 is as big as all of DA2's levels "

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
Haha Mike "here's a castle... And you *cough*... may or may not take control of it" pic.twitter.com/PvWXY2fa

Ok I'm intrigued at least.
ShockingAlberto
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(10-20-2012, 07:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

"Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
JP said just one level in #DA3 is as big as all of DA2's levels "

So Dragon Age 3 is bigger than a cave and a city confirmed.
Trigger
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(10-20-2012, 07:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by TruePrime

Thus far nothing that bothers me.

While I prefered being an Elf to a Human in DAO, I don't mind the ME system. Sadly though none of the tweets addressed my big concern and that is VA, if they go back to a mute lead then I will pass on it.

So long as I got a Female MC and she is VA'd then I am willing to watch the game and see if they can bring up the gameplay to be a more enjoyable experince overall.

I highly doubt we'll have a mute lead again.
Moaradin
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(10-20-2012, 08:01 PM)
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Mute lead is very unlikely.
Beth Cyra
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(10-20-2012, 08:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Trigger

I highly doubt we'll have a mute lead again.

Oh I fully expect them to be voiced. I just like to have things confirmed.

Also it shows that I'm pretty easily to please, I liked some of what they tried to do with DA2 story, so I'm willing to at least give the game a shot so long as there is some improvement.
Snuggles
erotic butter maelstrom
(10-20-2012, 08:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Moaradin

Mute lead is very unlikely.

Yeah, you're not gonna see that in a Bioware game anytime soon. That's a thing of the past.
Lancehead
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(10-20-2012, 08:08 PM)
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Not-mute lead is one of the worst things in BioWare games.
Subitai
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(10-20-2012, 08:08 PM)
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I think they'd take a lot of flack for going back to a mute lead.
Clydebink
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(10-20-2012, 08:09 PM)
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Can someone explain what was wrong with DA:2's combat? I played it the same way as I played Orgins. At first it seemed easier, so I put the difficulty up one notch and then played by pausing the game and assigning orders to my entire party.
I suspect that the people that are complaining were confused by the ability to play as one member (like a real-time action game) if you left it on the default difficulty. But you could still play the game by pausing and assigning abilities, I feel that you would have had to pause and assign if you increased the difficulty.
The only other complaint about the combat I've seen is that enemies come in waves.
What am I not understanding?
Was Bioware's mistake making "easy" the default mode and calling it "normal"?
To be clear, I'm not asking about level-design, story, or characters; just combat.
Beth Cyra
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(10-20-2012, 08:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lancehead

Not-mute lead is one of the worst things in BioWare games.

I know more then a few that feel this way.

I however truly hate mute leads and it's come to the point where if the game is story heavy I won't play it if the characters are mute. Just takes me out of the exeperince and I enjoy a fair number of VA's.

It's one reason why I didn't help with the kickstarter for Project Eternity because I have no doubts that while the game will be great it won't have voiced leads.
Derrick01
Banned
(10-20-2012, 08:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lancehead

Not-mute lead is one of the worst things in BioWare games.

Ideally it would be the best option if the games could match the writing depth of older wrpgs but I guess it's too expensive to get someone to voice all of those lines.
Enduin
No bald cap? Lies!
(10-20-2012, 08:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Clydebink

Can someone explain what was wrong with DA:2's combat? I played it the same way as I played Orgins. At first it seemed easier, so I put the difficulty up one notch and then played by pausing the game and assigning orders to my entire party.
I suspect that the people that are complaining were confused by the ability to play as one member (like a real-time action game) if you left it on the default difficulty. But you could still play the game by pausing and assigning abilities, I feel that you would have had to pause and assign if you increased the difficulty.
The only other complaint about the combat I've seen is that enemies come in waves.
What am I not understanding?
Was Bioware's mistake making "easy" the default mode and calling it "normal"?
To be clear, I'm not asking about level-design, story, or characters; just combat.


It was just sloppy. They threw in a lot of new ideas, changed a bunch of stuff up, but didn't take the time to flesh it out and make it work.

The Wave system is the clearest example of this. Decent idea, but horrible execution. What could have been an interesting and unique way of keeping you on your toes and making battles more dynamic and fluid turned into a complete nuisance and cheap trick to make encounters "harder."

Everything just felt undercooked. It wasn't hard to realize they just didn't work everything out and make it nice and balanced. It worked but it certainly wasn't great or terribly deep.
Trigger
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(10-20-2012, 08:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Clydebink

Can someone explain what was wrong with DA:2's combat? I played it the same way as I played Orgins. At first it seemed easier, so I put the difficulty up one notch and then played by pausing the game and assigning orders to my entire party.
I suspect that the people that are complaining were confused by the ability to play as one member (like a real-time action game) if you left it on the default difficulty. But you could still play the game by pausing and assigning abilities, I feel that you would have had to pause and assign if you increased the difficulty.
The only other complaint about the combat I've seen is that enemies come in waves.
What am I not understanding?
Was Bioware's mistake making "easy" the default mode and calling it "normal"?
To be clear, I'm not asking about level-design, story, or characters; just combat.

I think action-rpgs have to walk the tightrope of providing room for tactics and skill paired with timing. DA2's combat never relied much on strategy outside of needing a healer or potions occasionally nor did skill play much of a role. Despite the faster pace there's no dodging, no chance to miss attacks, or need to really plan your movements. Depending on your class you could just camp in one spot and mash the button while occasionally chugging a potion/ heal spell.The difficulty levels only pad the length of combat. Enemies don't use unique talents or strategies; they just get a buff. None of the specializations altered combat meaningfully.

On a superficial level the combat animations felt very stiff and over-styled. Hawke does the same over the top animations with very little variation. Combat lacked real fluidity. It's a game that tries to artificially create a sense of tension and style.

If you want an example of what I think is good action-rpg combat look at the KH series or Dragon's Dogma (the latter being closer in style).
Lancehead
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(10-20-2012, 08:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Derrick01

Ideally it would be the best option if the games could match the writing depth of older wrpgs but I guess it's too expensive to get someone to voice all of those lines.

My problem with lead VA is not about writing depth. When I create a character I have a tone set for the whole character, including voice. But when the game its own voice superseding my own, I don't like it. For example, there could be a line which my character would say in a cold-hearted manner, but the game ends up saying in a heartfelt manner. Ugh
Durante
I'm taking it FROM here, so says Mr. Stewart
(10-20-2012, 08:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Clydebink

Can someone explain what was wrong with DA:2's combat?

There are 2 major issues with DA2's combat. All other minor issues stem from these.

1) Making friendly fire default to off. "But it's an option!" you may say. This is true, but defaulting it to off informs all the playtesting and skill as well as encounter design. This means that, if you play on a difficulty that does enable friendly fire, you are saddled with tons of skills that are essentially useless, and encounters that simply don't work as they should.

2) Wave based encounter design. Not only is it lazy, boring, repetitive padding, it also breaks immersion in many instances (where the numbers or spawning locations make no sense). But most importantly, and particularly relevant to your question, it also breaks tactical positioning. Since I consider positioning to be potentially the most important tactical decision in isometric party-based games, that effectively breaks tactical battles.

However, despite both of those crucial issues, combat was not nearly the worst problem with DA2.
Last edited by Durante; 10-20-2012 at 08:30 PM.
Jibbajabbawockky
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(10-20-2012, 08:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Subitai

I think they'd take a lot of flack for going back to a mute lead.

I'd gladly go back to a non voiced player character if it meant going back to choosing different races and having fleshed out origin stories. That seems to be the tradeoff.

Plus it would mean they could get rid of the idiotic dialogue wheel. The voice acting just isn't worth it to me. Unless they adopt an Alpha Protocol style dialogue system, they should leave the voiced player character to Mass Effect and give the Dragon Age games a non voiced player character but lots more options with character creation and background.

Originally Posted by Nirolak


"Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
JP said just one level in #DA3 is as big as all of DA2's levels "

Making comparisons to DA2 is setting the bar pretty damn low. I mean, make the comparison to Origins if you're trying to impress people.

I think its a bigger question of how open the levels will be more than how big. Origins and DA2 had pretty mediocre level design with just tight corridors mostly with little allowance for going off and exploring areas. If they had big areas that were open to exploration, like the Witcher 2, that might get me more intrigued.


Originally Posted by Nirolak

Cameron Lee @BioWare ‏@Cameron__Lee
Mike: customization is going to be bigger than Dragon age origins. Follower customization etc. #DA3

That doesn't compute for me if they're limiting you to a human. Eh... they can have all the customization they want, but if its never reacted to by the world then its kind of for nothing, IMO.
Clydebink
Junior Member
(10-20-2012, 08:48 PM)
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Thank you all for your well written and thoughtful answers. When reading through forums and seeing multiple people state ambigious summarizations like "the combat in DA:2 sucks." I tend to assume that there is an unanimous agreement on what aspects are despised. But once I read clear explainations, I see that though multiple people may dislike a design decision or game-mechanic, they often do so for differing reasons.
Patryn
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(10-20-2012, 09:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by Durante

There are 2 major issues with DA2's combat. All other minor issues stem from these.

1) Making friendly fire default to off. "But it's an option!" you may say. This is true, but defaulting it to off informs all the playtesting and skill as well as encounter design. This means that, if you play on a difficulty that does enable friendly fire, you are saddled with tons of skills that are essentially useless, and encounters that simply don't work as they should.

2) Wave based encounter design. Not only is it lazy, boring, repetitive padding, it also breaks immersion in many instances (where the numbers or spawning locations make no sense). But most importantly, and particularly relevant to your question, it also breaks tactical positioning. Since I consider positioning to be potentially the most important tactical decision in isometric party-based games, that effectively breaks tactical battles.

However, despite both of those crucial issues, combat was not nearly the worst problem with DA2.

The clearest example of Bioware ignoring the importance of positioning was turning Backstab into an active skill.

In DA:O, you had to use your tanks efficiently in order to attract an enemy's attention to allow your rogue to position themselves behind the enemy and start wailing away.

In DA2, this was reduced to simply pushing a button.
codecow
Visceral Games
(10-20-2012, 09:35 PM)
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I didn't play DA2 but after watching my wife play it on the PS3 in our living room to me the follower AI looked like it didn't work very well (buggy). It definitely hurt her ability to play it.
El_Chino
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(10-20-2012, 10:14 PM)
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I haven't been following this but has it been confirmed to be next-gen?
bhlaab
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(10-20-2012, 10:28 PM)
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Yeah but will Felicia Day be in it, quippin' like crazy?!
Complistic
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(10-20-2012, 10:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by bhlaab

Yeah but will Felicia Day be in it, quippin' like crazy?!

the main character is felicia day.

Dun dun daa

What it needs is more zombie leliana because fuck your choices.
Kinyou
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(10-20-2012, 10:35 PM)
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I'm still really interested in this. I feel like this will be Bioware's big redemption. They just got so much shit from everyone about DA2 and ME3 so this would be the perfect opportunity to show everyone that they still got it.

(I hope I'm right)
Piecake
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(10-20-2012, 10:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

I'm still really interested in this. I feel like this will be Bioware's big redemption. They just got so much shit from everyone about DA2 and ME3 so this would be the perfect opportunity to show everyone that they still got it.

(I hope I'm right)

I have more faith In ME's team than DAs team though
Complistic
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(10-20-2012, 10:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

I'm still really interested in this. I feel like this will be Bioware's big redemption. They just got so much shit from everyone about DA2 and ME3 so this would be the perfect opportunity to show everyone that they still got it.

(I hope I'm right)

It'll be better than DA2 (though only because it can't be any worse) but I can't see anyway the game could turn out to be good.
Moaradin
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(10-20-2012, 10:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Piecake

I have more faith In ME's team than DAs team though

I think DA 2 could have turned out good if it was given a good development time. A lot of it's problems could be contributed to it being rushed.
Ridesh
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(10-20-2012, 10:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

I'm still really interested in this. I feel like this will be Bioware's big redemption. They just got so much shit from everyone about DA2 and ME3 so this would be the perfect opportunity to show everyone that they still got it.

(I hope I'm right)

Exactly my thoughts, I want this game to be really good.
mikeGFG
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(10-20-2012, 10:52 PM)
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so any bets on what form the inevitable multiplayer mode will take on?
Derrick01
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(10-20-2012, 10:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Piecake

I have more faith In ME's team than DAs team though

I "trust" the DA team more for now. The ME team has 2 bad games on them compared to just 1 for the DA team.

It could definitely even out though.
Moaradin
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(10-20-2012, 10:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Derrick01

I "trust" the DA team more for now. The ME team has 2 bad games on them compared to just 1 for the DA team.

It could definitely even out though.

I doubt many people would consider ME2 and ME3 bad, especially not in the same league as DA2.

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