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drkOne
Member
(12-12-2012, 02:43 PM)
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Reddit has a thing against Gawker, wether justified or not, it isn't simply blind hate. If Gawker had just left Reddit alone to begin with you wouldn't be in that position. As it stands, even if Kotaku is separate from Gawker, giving Kotaku hits will benefit Gawker, which Reddit won't do.

Also, Kotaku has a stigma going for it on a couple of communities. I think it's pretty cool that you're here discussing this stuff with us, and it really has improved the image I had of Kotaku. I'm pretty sure a lot of people on GAF liked Totilo pre-Kotaku, and then it just turned to, "eh, he's on Kotaku now, don't care".
No matter what you do, some people will still hate you, I doubt there's one website that someone on GAF won't come and argue about how bad it is, but I think you should take into consideration some of the stuff people criticize about Kotaku, as you guys have a good staff behind it. I'm pretty sure some of the freedom is taken away by the big corporation behind it, which without knowing any better, I'd say is my main problem with Kotaku.

Anyway, good too see you hanging around, Jason.
28 Posts Later
Member
(12-14-2012, 06:38 PM)
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The PA Report wrote an editorial that covers some of the topics discussed: Bad linking, plagiarism, and re-writes: how game journalism is its own worst enemy

...re-write journalism continues to make up the majority of the stories you read on most sites.

It’s nearly unfair to point out examples, because this is how we as news gathering organizations work in game reporting. We find a good story, re-write it, sometimes we add a thought or two or a snarky caption, and the work is done. Every so often there is correct attribution.

If you want to know how truly bad it can get though, boy do I have fun examples.

Last edited by 28 Posts Later; 12-14-2012 at 06:42 PM.
Oersted
Banned
(12-15-2012, 11:41 PM)
So Keighley wonīt comment on this?
Rufus
Member
(12-15-2012, 11:46 PM)
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Hasn't he announced that he'll address it eventually? It's not like there's anything particularly illuminating (or appeasing) that he could say, anyway.

Also, start using these ' instead of ī , it's starting to bug me.
Shaneus
Member
(12-16-2012, 12:14 AM)
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Eventually, once his agreement with PepsiCo (whom produces MNTN DW and has Frito-Lay as a subsidiary) expires ;)
Ezi0
Member
(12-16-2012, 12:21 AM)
Didn't Microsoft put Halo 4 double XP codes on Mountain Dew and Doritos products? I don't see what's wrong with Geoff appearing next to them if he was talking about Halo 4.
jschreier
(12-16-2012, 12:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by 28 Posts Later

The PA Report wrote an editorial that covers some of the topics discussed: Bad linking, plagiarism, and re-writes: how game journalism is its own worst enemy

Good piece. I'm glad Ben brought up my Gabe story.

The solution isn't "don't aggregate news!" The solution is to be considerate and generous when you do have to aggregate, to give a prominent link to the original story and to make sure you're not taking more than one or two quotes from the interviewer. (with some exceptions, of course)

When I aggregate, I try to always encourage readers to go read the original source. IE: http://kotaku.com/5967657/theres-a-h...e-game-warface

We've also been doing more and more aggregation by just blipping stories in the Kotaku sidebar, which is essentially a way of saying "go read this!"
NateDrake
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(12-16-2012, 12:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

Good piece. I'm glad Ben brought up my Gabe story.

The solution isn't "don't aggregate news!" The solution is to be considerate and generous when you do have to aggregate, to give a prominent link to the original story and to make sure you're not taking more than one or two quotes from the interviewer. (with some exceptions, of course)

When I aggregate, I try to always encourage readers to go read the original source. IE: http://kotaku.com/5967657/theres-a-h...e-game-warface

We've also been doing more and more aggregation by just blipping stories in the Kotaku sidebar, which is essentially a way of saying "go read this!"

So basically do what Go Nintendo does? They give a small bit of the story and link back to the original source.
Shaneus
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(12-16-2012, 12:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

We've also been doing more and more aggregation by just blipping stories in the Kotaku sidebar, which is essentially a way of saying "go read this!"

That's probably a good way of doing it as well. Don't give it a full article's worth of publicity and space, but make sure it's in people's peripheral in case they might be interested.

Jason: Is there a post you made in this thread about said Gabe story? I'm curious.
Last edited by Shaneus; 12-16-2012 at 12:34 AM.
Oersted
Banned
(12-16-2012, 12:34 AM)

Originally Posted by Rufus

Hasn't he announced that he'll address it eventually? It's not like there's anything particularly illuminating (or appeasing) that he could say, anyway.

There is a whole thread about it.

Originally Posted by NateDrake

So basically do what Go Nintendo does? They give a small bit of the story and link back to the original source.

Shouldnīt this be a standard everywhere? Yeah some minor site maybe canīt do this, but is it really worth being mentioned when its done?

Donīt take it personal Jason ;)
Last edited by Oersted; 12-16-2012 at 12:41 AM.
jschreier
(12-16-2012, 12:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by NateDrake

So basically do what Go Nintendo does? They give a small bit of the story and link back to the original source.

Sometimes. (Although Go Nintendo sometimes just copy/pastes entire articles, which is rather disconcerting.)

There's really no one hard/fast rule. It depends on the news. Like, for example, if IGN suddenly posted every single detail and tons of photos of Durango, we'd probably want to get all of that info up on our site. We'd link prominently, of course, but we'd be doing a disservice to our readers not to get huge news like that up in its entirety.

But often, I think a blip is good enough. "Hey, go read this cool story we found!" For example: http://kotaku.com/5968491/

This is another good example: http://kotaku.com/5968162/rockstar-w...-one-big-world We take one cool piece of info out of an interview and then direct readers to go read the source material for the rest.

I'm working on a very large piece for Monday (a profile on Obsidian Entertainment) and it will be interesting to see how other sites aggregate it. Worth paying attention to, if you're interested in this sort of thing.
jschreier
(12-16-2012, 12:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shaneus

Jason: Is there a post you made in this thread about said Gabe story? I'm curious.

Yessir. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=8981
Jackpot
Member
(12-18-2012, 09:47 PM)
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So are any outlets covering the WarZ false advertising or Valve's lack of monitoring on their own eStore yet still taking 30% profit from them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKAm3nzg6I

Seems like the sort of thing journalists would do, especially consumer journalists.
Syriel
Member
(12-18-2012, 10:58 PM)

Originally Posted by nofi

The issue I have with aggregation is a lack of sourcing, not Reddit etc.

I've seen stories I've written (and others, of course) aggregated on other so-called "big" industry sites without ANY credit.

As if they've magically found the same story.

That shit stinks.

There's plenty of sites (including large ones) which have no issue with taking stuff and not attributing it. Some will go so far as to copy text and screens and just crop the screens even further so the watermark isn't visible.

If you're going to copy stuff, you should at least bother to verify it yourself.

I've been writing about games for awhile, which means my byline is trusted. Aggregators will lift what I write because they know I won't screw up. But by the same token, that gives me (and anyone like me) an enormous amount of power because we could publish any rumor we wanted and the aggregators would run with it as if it was theirs.

That's how misinformation spreads.

There's nothing wrong with aggregation as a concept, but anyone who aggregates should verify everything with the original source (not the original reporter) before re-publishing.

That's journalism 101.
jschreier
(12-18-2012, 11:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jackpot

So are any outlets covering the WarZ false advertising or Valve's lack of monitoring on their own eStore yet still taking 30% profit from them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtKAm3nzg6I

Seems like the sort of thing journalists would do, especially consumer journalists.

About an hour before you posted: http://kotaku.com/5969504/fans-rage-...-like-the-game
jschreier
(12-18-2012, 11:13 PM)
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This story I just published is also rather relevant to this thread: http://kotaku.com/5969547/the-case-o...ware-interview
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
(12-18-2012, 11:24 PM)
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That is some fast moving shiznit.
Shaneus
Member
(12-19-2012, 12:18 AM)
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Anyone care to summarise/copypasta the main bits? Can't get to Kotaku from work :/
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
(12-19-2012, 12:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

This story I just published is also rather relevant to this thread: http://kotaku.com/5969547/the-case-o...ware-interview


First article a guy writes is fake. Follow your dreams!
Tash
Member
(12-19-2012, 11:21 PM)
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I need an auto-summarize which sums out all the posts while I sleep. Totally impossible to keep up. How are you guys doing it?!
Tash
Member
(12-19-2012, 11:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

This story I just published is also rather relevant to this thread: http://kotaku.com/5969547/the-case-o...ware-interview

Trying to remember the book I read recently..about how a story gets created and how he manipulated the media with false news stories he created for his own or his clients sake.

And sorry, total answer fail on my part. Wanted to combine both messages in one reply.
JABEE
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(12-20-2012, 07:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Syriel

There's plenty of sites (including large ones) which have no issue with taking stuff and not attributing it. Some will go so far as to copy text and screens and just crop the screens even further so the watermark isn't visible.

If you're going to copy stuff, you should at least bother to verify it yourself.

I've been writing about games for awhile, which means my byline is trusted. Aggregators will lift what I write because they know I won't screw up. But by the same token, that gives me (and anyone like me) an enormous amount of power because we could publish any rumor we wanted and the aggregators would run with it as if it was theirs.

That's how misinformation spreads.

There's nothing wrong with aggregation as a concept, but anyone who aggregates should verify everything with the original source (not the original reporter) before re-publishing.

That's journalism 101.

Yes. This is why when you see sites hopping on these stories so quickly after someone else published it, you have to wonder if there is a journalistic process at the sites or if it's a free-for-all to get all of the hits you can get. When sites like Polygon or Kotaku quickly publish information they find on forums or twitter accounts, it doesn't seem like they have very stringent guidelines. In some ways, I think that is an abuse of power. You shouldn't post first, look for sourcing later. Slapping "Rumor" on something you didn't find yourself doesn't absolve you from the hit in credibility your site should take for jumping the gun along with the origin.

It has become so competitive and common to perform that journalistic practice that I believe the quality and credibility of the information being passed on by large outlets is tarnished. This competition to be first isn't exclusive to games journalism either. It has been the case with almost all areas of reporting since the increased popularity of blogs and the internet. There is no longer as much value in reliability and credibility of reporting.

I don't really believe that passing on bad information is something that would actually harm any major blog or outlet. Gaming enthusiasts have been conditioned to expect this. These sites profit and put credible sites out of business by having lax sourcing requirements.
NateDrake
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(12-20-2012, 07:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by JABEE

Yes. This is why when you see sites hopping on these stories so quickly after someone else published it, you have to wonder if there is a journalistic process at the sites or if it's a free-for-all to get all of the hits you can get. When sites like Polygon or Kotaku quickly publish information they find on forums or twitter accounts, it doesn't seem like they have very stringent guidelines. In some ways, I think that is an abuse of power. You shouldn't post first, look for sourcing later. Slapping "Rumor" on something you didn't find yourself doesn't absolve you from the hit in credibility your site should take for jumping the gun along with the origin.

It has become so competitive and common to perform that journalistic practice that I believe the quality and credibility of the information being passed on by large outlets is tarnished. This competition to be first isn't exclusive to games journalism either. It has been the case with almost all areas of reporting since the increased popularity of blogs and the internet. There is no longer as much value in reliability and credibility of reporting.

I don't really believe that passing on bad information is something that would actually harm any major blog or outlet. Gaming enthusiasts have been conditioned to expect this. These sites profit and put credible sites out of business by having lax sourcing requirements.

That right there is the problem. Sites like to use the word 'Rumor' as a method to coverup bullshit. If it is fake, oh well, they said it was only a rumor. If it is true, then they are great.

Too many sites use Rumor stories just for hits -- like that site that claims their source 'Geno' knows what PS4 will launch with, what MS is planning with the next Xbox, and what games Nintendo will show at E3. If they are correct with any of it or even remotely close they think they are gods. If they are wrong they say stuff changed or the info just wasn't accurate and all is forgotten.
Dr. Feel Good
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(12-20-2012, 09:26 PM)
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Still nothing from Keighly? Good lord he's pathetic. Shouldn't say I'm surprised.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
(12-20-2012, 10:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dr. Feel Good

Still nothing from Keighly? Good lord he's pathetic. Shouldn't say I'm surprised.

Not trying to justify his position, but he's in the middle of a no-win situation, so you can't expect him to get out of this mess just by an essay.
Rufus
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(12-21-2012, 08:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by bernardobri

Not trying to justify his position, but he's in the middle of a no-win situation, so you can't expect him to get out of this mess just by an essay.

.

If, against my personal expectation, he manages to say anything that doesn't have any danger of exploding in his face while also assuaging the sharpest critics, he should probably go into politics. It's not going to happen.
Shaneus
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(12-21-2012, 10:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by bernardobri

Not trying to justify his position, but he's in the middle of a no-win situation, so you can't expect him to get out of this mess just by an essay.

True, but when you say something like this:

Originally Posted by chalkitdown1

Has this been posted?

Keighley responded the other day. Kinda.

You sort of expect him to have delivered *something* within the past month. I mean, I'd say this whole thing has slowed down a *lot*. But that's just me going on the fact that we've had less than 30 posts in this thread in the last week, compared to how many were being logged prior to that.
Castor Krieg
Banned
(12-21-2012, 11:01 AM)
What are you expecting Geoff to say? May I go into the future? The response will be something bland like that:

"In the videogame industry we have to judge our passion and integrity against business realities. Like it or not, those ad money allows us to bring you new and premier content.".

He is right. Geoff is really not at fault here, he NEVER pretended to be a journalist and a bastion of personal integrity.
excaliburps
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(12-21-2012, 11:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

Sometimes. (Although Go Nintendo sometimes just copy/pastes entire articles, which is rather disconcerting.)

There's really no one hard/fast rule. It depends on the news. Like, for example, if IGN suddenly posted every single detail and tons of photos of Durango, we'd probably want to get all of that info up on our site. We'd link prominently, of course, but we'd be doing a disservice to our readers not to get huge news like that up in its entirety.

But often, I think a blip is good enough. "Hey, go read this cool story we found!" For example: http://kotaku.com/5968491/

This is another good example: http://kotaku.com/5968162/rockstar-w...-one-big-world We take one cool piece of info out of an interview and then direct readers to go read the source material for the rest.

I'm working on a very large piece for Monday (a profile on Obsidian Entertainment) and it will be interesting to see how other sites aggregate it. Worth paying attention to, if you're interested in this sort of thing.

Sadly, there is no rule when it comes to proper sourcing and whatnot. But if the writer's foundation is sound (ie: trained properly), they should know to always give credit to the original source of the news and not the middle-man. One example is, say, Kotaku found a piece on Polygon, you write the news up, source Polygon but credit Kotaku too for bringing it up.

Same with interviews. You read it, pick the part that interests you or is fitting for the site, and then source them for the whole interview. One example of this is Schreier's piece on Obsidian. I got what I liked the most (talk about KoToR 3), and then linked to the entire piece.

It's sad that more and more sites abandon this and just copy-and-paste everything. I've made some mistakes along the way, but generally, I try and do the job properly.

Kotaku might get a lot of flack from GAF for a ton of things, but plagiarism? I haven't seen it there that much -- or at all. There is a "very" big UK-based site that thrives on plagiarism and misquoting interviews, which a ton of people at GAF know which site I'm talking about.

Regarding being "first," it's unfortunate that a lot of sites post stories without verifying, but that's the nature of the business. I mean, at the end of the day, people get their info for free and sites do need to pay their writers (middle to big tier ones, at least).

As for me, I try to verify something first before running something -- especially if it's "too big" and X site had the scoop. Not a leak, mind, but a scoop. Not to say I've never made mistakes, but generally, I try and verify something before putting it up.

Originally Posted by Castor Krieg

What are you expecting Geoff to say? May I go into the future? The response will be something bland like that:

"In the videogame industry we have to judge our passion and integrity against business realities. Like it or not, those ad money allows us to bring you new and premier content.".

He is right. Geoff is really not at fault here, he NEVER pretended to be a journalist and a bastion of personal integrity.

Yeah, I don't see what GAF expects Geoff to say. Should he be apologetic? If so, for what? The image showed him behind Doritos and Mountain Dew, but that's not a sin, nor did he "sell out," in my opinion. I mean, the event was sponsored by Pepsi and Halo had a long standing relationship with them.
Goldmund
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(12-21-2012, 11:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Castor Krieg

What are you expecting Geoff to say? May I go into the future? The response will be something bland like that:

"In the videogame industry we have to judge our passion and integrity against business realities. Like it or not, those ad money allows us to bring you new and premier content.".

He is right. Geoff is really not at fault here, he NEVER pretended to be a journalist and a bastion of personal integrity.

That's the thing, though, isn't it? You don't need to be a bastion of personal integrity or a journalist to have at least some sense of decency and integrity. Geoff Keighley clearly doesn't.

I'm not expecting him to say anything more than what you've divined. He has remained and will remain true to his character, a questionable one at that, but still.

Originally Posted by excaliburps

Yeah, I don't see what GAF expects Geoff to say. Should he be apologetic? If so, for what? The image showed him behind Doritos and Mountain Dew, but that's not a sin, nor did he "sell out," in my opinion. I mean, the event was sponsored by Pepsi and Halo had a long standing relationship with them.

It's not about the picture, it's about his interview/infomercial spiel:

Originally Posted by Geoff Keighley

Part of what I'm talking about today is the double XP program that Mountain Dew and Doritos are bringing back which actually allow[s] gamers to rank up inside of War Games in Halo 4 by purchasing Mountain Dew or Doritos. So, that's a great example of a brand saying: "Hey, we actually want to give benefit and value to gamers." So if you buy, uh, you know, uh, if you buy, uh, Mountain Dew, you buy Doritos, you get a code, you go to dewxp dot com or doritosxp dot com, enter that code, link it to your gamer tag and then you're gonna get some experience in the game. So, it's-it's, uh, it's a good partnership.

Last edited by Goldmund; 12-21-2012 at 11:27 AM.
Jackpot
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(12-21-2012, 12:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Castor Krieg

He is right. Geoff is really not at fault here, he NEVER pretended to be a journalist and a bastion of personal integrity.

I always viewed Geoff as on par with a TV presenter. Only way you can criticise him is if he claims he's not beholden to sponsors or that he is an journalist.
Last edited by Jackpot; 12-21-2012 at 12:36 PM.
WrenchNinja
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(12-21-2012, 12:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Castor Krieg


He is right. Geoff is really not at fault here, he NEVER pretended to be a journalist and a bastion of personal integrity.

He did when thats what he put on his twitter profile. You want to use that title, then there are expectations and standards you have to meet.
Shaneus
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(12-21-2012, 12:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Castor Krieg

What are you expecting Geoff to say? May I go into the future? The response will be something bland like that:

"In the videogame industry we have to judge our passion and integrity against business realities. Like it or not, those ad money allows us to bring you new and premier content.".

He is right. Geoff is really not at fault here, he NEVER pretended to be a journalist and a bastion of personal integrity.

I'm expecting him to elaborate on "I have a lot to say". If he hadn't said that, I don't think I'd expect him to say anything.
kafiend
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(12-21-2012, 12:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shaneus

I'm expecting him to elaborate on "I have a lot to say". If he hadn't said that, I don't think I'd expect him to say anything.

Sometimes people say they have a massive dick and threaten to wave it around in public while silently praying that nobody asks to actually see it.
Shaneus
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(12-21-2012, 02:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by kafiend

Sometimes people say they have a massive dick and threaten to wave it around in public while silently praying that nobody asks to actually see it.

This thread is basically just us waiting for Keighley to show us his dick?
Curufinwe
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(12-21-2012, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Castor Krieg

What are you expecting Geoff to say? May I go into the future? The response will be something bland like that:

"In the videogame industry we have to judge our passion and integrity against business realities. Like it or not, those ad money allows us to bring you new and premier content.".

He is right. Geoff is really not at fault here, he NEVER pretended to be a journalist and a bastion of personal integrity.

His own twitter profile says "videogame journalist."

@geoffkeighley

Videogame journalist Geoff Keighley, host of Spike TV's GTTV

Oersted
Banned
(12-21-2012, 10:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Castor Krieg

What are you expecting Geoff to say? May I go into the future? The response will be something bland like that:

"In the videogame industry we have to judge our passion and integrity against business realities. Like it or not, those ad money allows us to bring you new and premier content.".

He is right. Geoff is really not at fault here, he NEVER pretended to be a journalist and a bastion of personal integrity.

You could have gone to his webpage or to his Twitterpage to prove yourself wrong. As a matter of fact, that whole " Keighley never pretended to be a journalist" is just trolling at this point. For a start, watch the interview where this whole thing started. The industry leading journalist explains you how to become like him.


Originally Posted by GDJustin

Disclaimer: I am IGN's mobile games editor. Thought NeoGAF might be curious about the winners. IGN's overall picks for 2012 Game of the Year are now live:

http://www.***.com/wikis/best-of-2012/Best_Overall_Game

WINNERS:

Action: Dishonored
Adventure: The Walking Dead
Fighting: Persona 4 Arena
Platfom: New Super Mario Bros. U
Puzzle: Crashmo
Racing: Trials Evolution
RPG: Mass Effect 3
Shooter: Far Cry 3
Sports: FIFA Soccer 13
Strategy: XCOM
Multiplayer: Halo 4
Graphics: Halo 4
Music: Journey
Sound: Halo 4
Story/Writing: The Walking Dead

BEST OVERALL GAME: Journey


Great timing.
jschreier
(12-22-2012, 01:11 AM)
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While ME3 would certainly not be my pick for RPG of the year (that'd be The Last Story), it's infantile to pull out the "omg lol game journalism" card because you disagree with an outlet's choice of awards.

And when are you people going to stop harping on Keighley? I thought you wanted to discuss actual issues in games journalism (which is why I'm still here), not continuously berate someone because he chose not to comment on this controversy.
Gully State
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(12-22-2012, 01:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

While ME3 would certainly not be my pick for RPG of the year (that'd be The Last Story), it's infantile to pull out the "omg lol game journalism" card because you disagree with an outlet's choice of awards.

And when are you people going to stop harping on Keighley? I thought you wanted to discuss actual issues in games journalism (which is why I'm still here), not continuously berate someone because he chose not to comment on this controversy.

I don't think it's a your taste is bad but rather there's a conflict of interest seeing as how one of their employees actually was in the game.
jschreier
(12-22-2012, 01:20 AM)
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Oh, I totally forgot about the Chobot conversation. My bad. It's been a long week.
Oersted
Banned
(12-22-2012, 01:50 AM)

Originally Posted by jschreier

While ME3 would certainly not be my pick for RPG of the year (that'd be The Last Story), it's infantile to pull out the "omg lol game journalism" card because you disagree with an outlet's choice of awards.

And when are you people going to stop harping on Keighley? I thought you wanted to discuss actual issues in games journalism (which is why I'm still here), not continuously berate someone because he chose not to comment on this controversy.

A little reminder:

Originally Posted by Lime

I thought this thread might as well be appropriate: With the news of IGN including Mass Effect 3 in their GOTY nominees list, they actively demonstrate a severe conflict of interest, given Bioware's inclusion of one of the IGN employees in the selected game. This is a perfect example of the seemingly corrupt relationship between pubs/devs/PR and journalists, yet are other gaming journalists and media going to comment on this? Or at least point it out and how it actively deteriorate the reputation of all gaming journalism?

IGN doesn't even make the conflict of interest explicit in their nomination. If any gaming journalists want to be taken seriously as professionals, they need to talk about and exhibit reflection on this "controversy".


Or to quote your response:

Jessica Chobot is a voice actor for Mass Effect 3. So it's kinda gross that she previewed it two weeks ago: http://g4.tv/wR5heD

You are absolutly right, its kinda gross that a fulltime-IGN- employee previewed Mass Effect and was also a part of the game. I would go only a little bit further and say it adds up to the misery that this game won also an award by IGN.


On the Geoff Keighley case:

He, being a "journalist", was doing a commercial disguised as journalistic talk. Than shit happened. Weeks later, Keighley said he will comment on this after VGA. Didnīt happen so far. Surprisingly, we talked about this in a thread called "Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos ". Not only because this was the topic in beginning. It is an actual issue. It is an issue that the industry leading journalist is breaching ethical conduct. It is an issue that noone nails him down. And that he wonīt comment on this. It is an issue. And this wonīt disappear if we always yell "but the bigger picture". The bigger picture has its pieces and Geoff Keighley is one of them. But if you want to discuss other pieces, feel free to say why and and name them. Go ahead.
Game Guru
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(12-22-2012, 01:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gully State

I don't think it's a your taste is bad but rather there's a conflict of interest seeing as how one of their employees actually was in the game.

To be fair, Mass Effect 3 is likely going to get most of the Best RPG rewards this year, since that is usually a reward given to either Bioware or Bethesda at this point and Bethesda lacks an RPG entry this year. I would like it if we got out of that trend, but more people are going to have played Mass Effect 3 instead of something like The Last Story, and Mass Effect 3 getting the reward would be expected.
bigdaddygamebot
(12-22-2012, 01:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

Oh, I totally forgot about the Chobot conversation. My bad. It's been a long week.


Your presence here over the last few weeks is leaving me with a burgeoning respect for you and a significantly less dislike for Kotaku.

They need to double your salary.
Gully State
Member
(12-22-2012, 02:09 AM)
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Originally Posted by Game Guru

To be fair, Mass Effect 3 is likely going to get most of the Best RPG rewards this year, since that is usually a reward given to either Bioware or Bethesda at this point and Bethesda lacks an RPG entry this year. I would like it if we got out of that trend, but more people are going to have played Mass Effect 3 instead of something like The Last Story, and Mass Effect 3 getting the reward would be expected.

I really have no opinion on this either way personally TBH...I was just reminding Jason why people are up in arms about this.
jschreier
(12-22-2012, 02:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Oersted

You are absolutly right, its kinda gross that a fulltime-IGN- employee previewed Mass Effect and was also a part of the game. I would go only a little bit further and say it adds up to the misery that this game won also an award by IGN.

Dude, did you not see my link? It's Chobot previewing Mass Effect for G4TV. Why would a full-time employee of IGN be previewing games for G4? I know you posted an interview earlier of Chobot calling herself a full-time IGN writer years ago, but again, I'm pretty sure she's a freelancer (based on the fact that she's doing work for G4). And hey, if you're really that curious about this, why don't you just ask her?

REGARDLESS, whether Chobot is full-time or freelance or just hangs out at IGN's offices during her lunch breaks, I think there's only really a conflict of interest if she was involved with selecting IGN's Best RPG. Do you know if she was? If not, how is it a conflict of interest? I'm curious to hear specific arguments here.
Last edited by jschreier; 12-22-2012 at 02:20 AM.
Foffy
Member
(12-22-2012, 02:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

Dude, did you not see my link? It's Chobot previewing Mass Effect for G4TV. Why would a full-time employee of IGN be previewing games for G4?

She's married to someone who works at G4TV..

You make a fair point if she had nothing to do with the IGN RPG nominations though.
Oersted
Banned
(12-22-2012, 03:23 AM)

Originally Posted by jschreier

Dude, did you not see my link? It's Chobot previewing Mass Effect for G4TV. Why would a full-time employee of IGN be previewing games for G4? I know you posted an interview earlier of Chobot calling herself a full-time IGN writer years ago, but again, I'm pretty sure she's a freelancer (based on the fact that she's doing work for G4). And hey, if you're really that curious about this, why don't you just ask her?

REGARDLESS, whether Chobot is full-time or freelance or just hangs out at IGN's offices during her lunch breaks, I think there's only really a conflict of interest if she was involved with selecting IGN's Best RPG. Do you know if she was? If not, how is it a conflict of interest? I'm curious to hear specific arguments here.

Maybe a example makes it easier for you:


A face of New York Times(and therefore obviously hired by them) , presenting NYT, appears in a Pepsi commercial. One year later, in the " New York Times- products of the year"- list Pepsi appears as the best drink. The conflict of interest is not necessarly there for the face, but on the side of New York Times. Or in this real case, IGN.
Lancehead
Member
(12-22-2012, 03:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by jschreier

REGARDLESS, whether Chobot is full-time or freelance or just hangs out at IGN's offices during her lunch breaks, I think there's only really a conflict of interest if she was involved with selecting IGN's Best RPG. Do you know if she was? If not, how is it a conflict of interest? I'm curious to hear specific arguments here.

You have this backwards. Chobot's position with IGN determines whether there's any conflict of interest REGARDLESS of whether she's involved in selecting IGN's Best RPG. The latter condition only makes it blatant or not.
jschreier
(12-22-2012, 03:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Oersted

Maybe a example makes it easier for you:


A face of New York Times(and therefore obviously hired by them) , presenting NYT, appears in a Pepsi commercial. One year later, in the " New York Times- products of the year"- list Pepsi appears as the best drink. The conflict of interest is not necessarly there for the face, but on the side of New York Times. Or in this real case, IGN.

Well I don't think the NYT is a great parallel, because it's a newspaper, as opposed to IGN, an entertainment organization with multiple branches.

Here's a different example: say an ESPN television broadcaster stars in a commercial for Gatorade, while ESPN.com's editorial staff does an article ranking the top ten sports drinks. Is that a conflict of interest? I don't think so. So long as that ESPN broadcaster has nothing to do with the editorial side of things, I don't see the problem there.

ALL THAT SAID, when it comes to conflict of interest, appearance can be just as important as reality, so it might have been ideal for IGN to add a note disclosing that they've paid someone who worked on ME3. But there are bigger problems in the industry, I think. For example: the fact that game journalists/reporters/hosts/whatever are starring in video games in the first place.
zkylon
Member
(12-22-2012, 06:16 AM)
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The big problem here is Bioware being so creatively dead that they thought putting Jessica Chobot in the game was a good idea in the first place.

I fired her just to get her hackjob of a face (in-game, she's quite lovely in real life) out of my ship.

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