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PaulLFC
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(10-25-2012, 01:41 PM)
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We need a new thread or at least a title change given the massive change in direction of this thread.

I think she needs to research what libel means. Actually no, it's too late, she's "won". Another journalist has quit over a situation where he as far as I can see did nothing wrong. Disgusting.
Oxx
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:41 PM)
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How's she gonna win any contests on Twitter now that no one can see her tweets?
Goldmund
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:42 PM)
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It's disturbing. From where will I get my updates on all things Square Enix now?!
Jintor
Lit himself on fire to get
a mod to tag him
(10-25-2012, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by mik83kuu

Yet he says we should evaluate Eurogamer based on what he says and not based on what Eurogamer does. He quit his job because he took an issue with Eurogamer editing his column. He. Quit. His. Job. Because. Of. It. And yet he asks us not to blame Eurogamer. What the hell?

So what, he should just flip out and put Eurogamer on blast? I don't think you understand how crippling fighting libel litigation is, especially in the UK. There's standing up for journalistic principles and then there's putting an entire site and all its writers out of work for something you can mothball easily and that will still live on through the internet.

Yes, it's not exactly ideal, but this is the real world knocking here. Libel is serious business.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by PaulLFC

We need a new thread or at least a title change given the massive change in direction of this thread.

I think she needs to research what libel means. Actually no, it's too late, she's "won". Another journalist has quit over a situation where he as far as I can see did nothing wrong. Disgusting.

The 'chilling effect' wins again.
reptilescorpio
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:44 PM)
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She will make her Twitter public again once the next bunch of PR need something hashtagged or retweeted.
Jubbly
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:44 PM)
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Lauren Wainwright ‏@atheistium

Going private for a couple of days while the insults are coming in. Lots of people getting the wrong end of the stick which is interesting.

https://twitter.com/atheistium/statu...47761638092801
Mandius
Junior Member
(10-25-2012, 01:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oxx

How's she gonna win any contests on Twitter now that no one can see her tweets?

She has a YouTube channel of immature shit. Irl HNNGNGNNNG noises and videos of her calling WoW players virgins. It's fantastic.
Cartman86
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:45 PM)
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While I disagree strongly with what she did I hope she doesn't get a bunch of sexist bullshit thrown at her on Twitter. Maybe she will respond to this whole thing here. She has a GAF account I believe.
Last edited by Cartman86; 10-25-2012 at 01:51 PM.
Zeliard
another, slower tempo, made half of dreams
(10-25-2012, 01:46 PM)
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Ah, the karmic hilarity that is the Streisand effect.
wackojackosnose
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:46 PM)

Originally Posted by RobotRocker

Under PCC code and libel law, Florence is entirely in the clear on this one. A public quote from twitter is subject to criticism. This even includes the questions of if she is fit to practice or not due to her public quotes. She hasn't got a leg to stand on. If she makes a public statement that is directly quoted. Then she puts it in the public domain and gives the people the right to analyse and criticise her statements. Politician's quotes on twitter are subject to the same and thanks to the Leveson inquiry, so have Journalists (ex-NOTW editor Neil Wallis in particular) and the right to ask is she fit to practice.

It's the threat and high cost of libel lawyers which is making Eurogamer group back down, however. And if you have been a fan of the esteemed organ, Private Eye, over it's lifetime. You know that the threat of a libel suit is used to stifle criticism as the high cost of fighting it is not worth it to a significant amount of publications (Usually accompanied by a letter from everyone's favourite libel solicitors, Carter-Fuck). Which leads to them backing down.I can't imagine Eurogamer group produces the amount of profit needed to fight such a case.

But then ideally Eurogamer should have cited the precedent of Arkell Vs Pressdram, 1971 in response to her because she doesn't have a leg to stand on but money is money.

"Cash Rules Everything Around Me" - Old Staten Island proverb

Good post. It's disappointing that EG edited the article but it is understandable given the threat of a lawsuit, which nobody wants.
Omikaru
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cartman86

While I disagree strongly with what she did I hope she doesn't get a bunch of sexist bullshit thrown at her on Twitter.

It's bound to happen, unfortunately. Some people can't help themselves.
AFollowerNotALeader
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:47 PM)
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Lauren Wainwright ‏@atheistium

Going private for a couple of days while the insults are coming in. Lots of people getting the wrong end of the stick which is interesting.

Originally Posted by Jubbly

https://twitter.com/atheistium/statu...47761638092801

Man, as a recent newbie to Twitter, the sheer level of passive-aggressive ass-hattery the 140 character limit promotes is constantly staggering.
AlimNassor
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:47 PM)
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Gaming Journalism is pretty shameful. Ask any movie reviewer worth anything how he feels about gaming journalism, and he'll just laugh.

But replace doritos with popcorn and Mt.Dew with Bawls and Quake and you have me in the early years.
RobotRocker
(10-25-2012, 01:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jintor

I can't myself see a legit case for Wainswright's lawyers... I wonder if she merely threatened legal action and hoped they didn't call her bluff, or if there's some other stuff we're not seeing.

Likely she had back up. She's currently working for News International at The Sun and she probably got their libel solicitors to courier over a legal letter to Eurogamer. The legal might of News International is not something to be trifled with so Tom Bramwell likely folded quicker than Superman on laundry day once he saw that.

Reminds me of the situation where Future Publishing pulled a Paul "Mr.Biffo" Rose column over Phil Harrison's conduct at a Marrilion concert over a Sony Legal threat. Once Sony lawyers came in, Future just killed it. Rose pretty much quit on the games industry after that.
Castor Krieg
Banned
(10-25-2012, 01:47 PM)
Tomb Raider as the background image on her Twitter page - glorious.
mik83kuu
Banned
(10-25-2012, 01:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jintor

So what, he should just flip out and put Eurogamer on blast? I don't think you understand how crippling fighting libel litigation is, especially in the UK. There's standing up for journalistic principles and then there's putting an entire site and all its writers out of work for something you can mothball easily and that will still live on through the internet.

Yes, it's not exactly ideal, but this is the real world knocking here. Libel is serious business.

So why did he quit his job then? Why won't he write his column on Eurogamer if he really thinks they are not to blame? What am I missing here?
erpg
GAF parliamentarian
(10-25-2012, 01:48 PM)
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Don't worry guys. We now have Polygon, who can proudly beat their chests knowing their ethical creed doesn't allow for gifts over 50$.
jett
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:48 PM)
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What a sad turn of events. Can't Eurogamer fucking stand behind his columnist? This is why nobody takes "games journalism" seriously. And lolz at that Lauren woman protecting her twitter account. Of course she would do that.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(10-25-2012, 01:49 PM)
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The original article does cast a question over her character.

Whether casting a question is libel or not, I'm not sure. I think the leading context of the article might be what tips it but I'm not really that au fait with libel/defamation law. The article was a bit leading though. 'I'm not saying she's in their pockets, BUT...'


Originally Posted by jett

What a sad turn of events. Can't Eurogamer fucking stand behind his columnist? This is why nobody takes "games journalism" seriously.

Either it's not worth the hassle or they themselves don't have confidence that the subtext (if that can count as libel) would hold up in court.
Mastperf
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:49 PM)
Would have been quicker and less painful to acknowledge the criticism and explain why her journalistic integrity wasn't compromised. I guess it's asking too much to expect professionals to act professional. Now she gets to enjoy the backlash from a world of anonymous people who are free to say anything they want.
Jintor
Lit himself on fire to get
a mod to tag him
(10-25-2012, 01:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by mik83kuu

So why did he quit his job then? Why won't he write his column on Eurogamer if he really thinks they are not to blame? What am I missing here?

To separate out his personal integrity from Eurogamer's overall integrity. Eurogamer has responsibilities as a corporation that he doesn't as an individual.

Originally Posted by gofreak

Whether casting a question is libel or not, I'm not sure. I think the leading context of the article might be what tips it but I'm not really that au fait with libel/defamation law. The article was a bit leading though. 'I'm not saying she's in their pockets, BUT...'

I think a reasonable reading would make it clear that he was not directly accusing her of being in the pockets of PR; he was saying that these kinds of tweets could lead to a reasonable person to question her integrity as an objective journalist. A little different.
Twinduct
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:50 PM)
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Lol she shouldn't have made her account private. Now it looks like she's hiding something :p
Margalis
Banned
(10-25-2012, 01:50 PM)
The fact that S-E is listed as a freelance client of hers is pretty hilarious.
broadwayrock
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(10-25-2012, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shurs

Someone needs to make a new thread about this or a mod needs to change the title of this thread/OP. I'd do it but I'm on my way to work. This Wainwright thing is a much bigger story and needs to be spotlighted.

How about: "Alleged shill journalist threatens Eurogamer for quoting her shill like tweets"
Oxx
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(10-25-2012, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by mik83kuu

So why did he quit his job then? Why won't he write his column on Eurogamer if he really thinks they are not to blame? What am I missing here?

He can kick-up more of a stink this way.
Festwill
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(10-25-2012, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shatner's Bassoon

You need to cut a voucher off of a bottle of Mountain Dew to see her tweets now.

Preorder Tomb Raider today and get premium season pass access to lauren's tweets. HNNGNGFNGNGNNNGGNGNG
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
(10-25-2012, 01:51 PM)
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Still don't think Geoff has much fault in this.
Majukun
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(10-25-2012, 01:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by mik83kuu

Either I am missing something or this dude who wrote the column is a dirty fucking hipocrite. "Boo these other guys for not having any integrity, but don't blame Eurogamer for not having any either. I quit my job with them because they don't have any balls and they edited my column but you should not blame them. It's not their fault." What logic is this?

Must be that I'm missing something, right?

how doing something because you gain something from that,and doing something because other people will sue you if you don't are equal in your mind?
Jubbly
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(10-25-2012, 01:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by RobotRocker

Likely she had back up. She's currently working for News International at The Sun and she probably got their libel solicitors to courier over a legal letter to Eurogamer. The legal might of News International is not something to be trifled with so Tom Bramwell likely folded quicker than Superman on laundry day once he saw that.

Reminds me of the situation where Future Publishing pulled a Paul "Mr.Biffo" Rose column over Phil Harrison's conduct at a Marrilion concert over a Sony Legal threat. Once Sony lawyers came in, Future just killed it. Rose pretty much quit on the games industry after that.

She works for MCV primarily, which is an Intent Media publication. I doubt any organization she's associated with via her freelance role would care enough to assist. If anything, they'd get her off the books and hire one of the thousand other freelancers out there vying for work.
Rez
(10-25-2012, 01:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

The fact that S-E is listed as a freelance client of hers is pretty hilarious.

It's outstanding. Completely outstanding. Beautiful, even.
Dictator93
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(10-25-2012, 01:53 PM)
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I as thinking about this article this morning: how good it was to have been written. That it took balls to write it and all the examples in it.

And then this. Thank the gods that he stood by the article
Omikaru
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(10-25-2012, 01:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by mik83kuu

So why did he quit his job then? Why won't he write his column on Eurogamer if he really thinks they are not to blame? What am I missing here?

By having his words censored means his position as an opinion columnist is now untenable. I totally get why he left. You can't work for a company that has censored you, when your job is to give your opinion. But that doesn't mean to say he has any animosity towards EG itself; they were put in an impossible position in the face of potentially expensive litigation. If I were the Eurogamer editor, I'd do exactly the same thing, and if I were Rab I'd do what he did too. It's just an unfortunate situation.

Plus, him quitting has drawn attention to Wainwright's complete and utter fucking douchebaggery. I think he's had the effect he intended.
Larsen B
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(10-25-2012, 01:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by mik83kuu

So why did he quit his job then? Why won't he write his column on Eurogamer if he really thinks they are not to blame? What am I missing here?

Maybe he doesn't want Eurogamer to be dragged into a legal battle?

Even if there is no case for it, any stress to Tom Bramwell or other Eurogamer staff that may result could be regarded as his fault and he'd rather avoid that.

You're wasting too much time trying to argue a position that doesn't need arguing.
PaulLFC
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(10-25-2012, 01:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oxx

He can kick-up more of a stink this way.

Except he's said not to blame Eurogamer, and any other reaction outside of blaming Eurogamer could probably have been expressed whether still writing for Eurogamer or not.
jwhit28
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Deadly Cyclone

Still don't think Geoff has much fault in this.

The picture sums up game journalism in one nice picture. They are tools to sell us things.
Oxx
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rez

It's outstanding. Completely outstanding. Beautiful, even.

By doing the whole legal thing she has only gone and made herself the new poster girl for the incestuous relationship between the 'games press', publishers and PR.
Zeliard
another, slower tempo, made half of dreams
(10-25-2012, 01:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Twinduct

Lol she shouldn't have made her account private. Now it looks like she's hiding something :p

She doesn't seem to realize how guilty it makes her look that she threatened to sue for libel and is now hiding her twitter account.
shagg_187
lapdance transform pants
(10-25-2012, 01:55 PM)
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Freelance: Square-Enix?

AHHAHAHAHHAHA! Sour grapes. It's all sour grapes. I bet they taste so sour when people point out reality that you scounder behind that desk and pull out that "legal action" paper. Hilarious.

It's also crazy how many dedicated articles she wrote about Square Enix titles.
Last edited by shagg_187; 10-25-2012 at 01:57 PM.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
(10-25-2012, 01:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by jwhit28

The picture sums up game journalism in one nice picture. They are tools to sell us things.

I disagree. But such is life.
redlemon
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:55 PM)
Don't know why she'd bother with legal action (if she did which we don't know for sure yet). Used to listen to a podcast with her on it years ago and she's always been upfront with her obsession with Tomb Raider. It's not like there was anything new was being revealed, just the authors opinion that he might not be able to trust hers because of it.
Choc
Banned
(10-25-2012, 01:56 PM)
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I vote euro gamer become a banned site on gaf like game spot was
Freyjadour
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(10-25-2012, 01:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by specialguy

of all the problems in the world, this ranks really high on the list.

no wonder the world is in shambles.

What the christ.

You can apply that to almost every fuckin' situation but starving children and be correct.
DemonNite
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(10-25-2012, 01:56 PM)
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Larsen B
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(10-25-2012, 01:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by gofreak

The original article does cast a question over her character.

Whether casting a question is libel or not, I'm not sure. I think the leading context of the article might be what tips it but I'm not really that au fait with libel/defamation law. The article was a bit leading though. 'I'm not saying she's in their pockets, BUT...'

"But can you blame someone if they do think she is?"

What we're learning from recent events is that journalists are lacking in self-awareness. Probably nothing dodgy is going on in the majority of the games press but that it does look like it conceivably happens is a problem in itself.
Pendulum
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(10-25-2012, 01:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jubbly

She works for MCV primarily, which is an Intent Media publication. I doubt any organization she's associated with via her freelance role would care enough to assist. If anything, they'd get her off the books and hire one of the thousand other freelancers out there vying for work.

Yup, it was most likely Intent/MCV that wrote the email for her. Michael French, the EIC of MCV, was talking about "justice" and how "you're a bad guy now if you defend your team" over on Twitter.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(10-25-2012, 01:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

The fact that S-E is listed as a freelance client of hers is pretty hilarious.

That's interesting.

She should come out and clarify her relationship with S-E, then, so that no one flirts with the edges of libel/defamation again.
cameron
Member
(10-25-2012, 01:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Margalis

The fact that S-E is listed as a freelance client of hers is pretty hilarious.

Lol, awesome.

Interesting mentality, the desire to shield yourself from any and all criticism.

If a publication posts an opinion piece about your stupid/questionable comments on twitter, then threaten legal action. If someone tweets about your stupidity, rationalize it as an outsider or a nobody who's just jelly. If anonymous forum members poke fun at your "Press Reset" documentary, rationalize it as "[Forum] hates everything!".
Choc
Banned
(10-25-2012, 01:58 PM)
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Euro gamer is to blame because there is no FUCKING reason to edit that article. As her twitter showed it was fucking factual. Usually media outlets defend their journalists and sources to the hilt

Euro gamer chose to not do that and instead of ensuring journalistic and editorial integrity and defence they took the easy way out

The writers of that site now know they have zero protection from their paymasters. Disgraceful
mik83kuu
Banned
(10-25-2012, 01:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jintor

To separate out his personal integrity from Eurogamer's overall integrity. Eurogamer has responsibilities as a corporation that he doesn't as an individual.

But I guess what I mean is that if he takes issue with Eurogamers integrity, why can't we? Him telling us not to do so makes it stupid on an article a out the integrity of others.

Originally Posted by Oxx

He can kick-up more of a stink this way.

That's true but I'm not yet convinced that's his reasoning.

Originally Posted by Majukun

how doing something because you gain something from that,and doing something because other people will sue you if you don't are equal in your mind?

Both are a out speaking the truth. Integrity. Someone lieing to benefit from it has no integrity. Someone making truthful (easily backed up with evidence) observations and the cencoring them ar the first sign of trouble has no integrity either. If you lie or omit the truth for any reason, you cn't possibly stand on any higher ground that the other.

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