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Man Edits Wind Waker so 3-Year Old Daughter Doesn't Feel 2nd Class

X

XANDER CAGE

Member
ilnadmy said:
Eh? Do you mean hackneyed?
Click to expand...

Let it go, posts like that are a diamond dozen.

Also for real, the scariest thing about this is letting a three year old experience the forced stealth from the beginning of that game. That's a crime that doesn't discriminate against gender.
 
M

Master Milk

Member
FatboyRoberts said:
The questions:

How viable is this as a solution to the problem of young girls having not too many games (comparably) in which girls represent the hero?

Will this introduce problems later when the girl discovers that she has the only version of Wind Waker in which Link is a boy?

Ultimately, is all the work worth it in order to be assured the girl does garner some semblance of self-worth from playing the game in this way? Is such an assurance via video game even possible?
Click to expand...

It's not viable at all, because there's no way he can do it for every game they might play together. It's lucky for him that Link is so androgynous in this game or it wouldn't have worked here either.

There will be no problems later. She'll ask her dad why her copy was special or just realize it was and that Link is really a girl. "Oh really? Link's a boy? I didn't know that! He was a girl in the game I first played."

Yes, it's totally worth it. It's a shame there aren't more games, and more media in general, for girls to consume starring a positive female role model. Every little bit counts. And yes, kids can find role models in anything, so having one in a video game is not a bad thing.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
FatboyRoberts said:
Although - aren't a lot of the characters in children's entertainment anthropomorphized specifically so that it's easier for kids to identify with them?
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Probably still a bit too young for kingdom hearts

Veezy said:
Going way too far?

What? How is it to far that he took the time to make sure he could personalize the experience for his daughter?
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Because if you are three you cannot read well enough or quickly enough, or for long enough to make the experience worth the effort. If you have a super kid who can, then awesome. Some kids can read at that age a little. But that is reading like "see the red ball". You show a three year old a wall of text, it is not getting read.

So, he is reading it to her, which makes changing the text completely pointless.

The time spent doing a text change which is completely unnecessary then? Well could have drawn a picture, or taken her to the park to play on the swings or even got some rest so that he was in a better mood to play with her the next day and didn't spend his time playing video games he wanted to play when he should have been spending time with her.

That sort of stuff.
 
R

Roto13

Member
Game-Biz said:
Completely pointless. Sounds like this guy just did it for some attention.
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Pretty much. I'm sure this whole thing was much more for the father than for the daughter.

If he wants a heroine in Wind Waker, that's what Tetra's for.

Koopakiller said:
books can empower your imagination and increase your vocab while games are just a way to kill time
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You are more ignorant about video games than anyone on GAF has any right to be.
 
E

Eusis

Member
Roto13 said:
Pretty much. I'm sure this whole thing was much more for the father than for the daughter.

If he wants a heroine in Wind Waker, that's what Tetra's for.
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I imagine the fact she ends up (oh god does it even matter to hide spoilers at this point)
being Zelda, and the damsel in distress
doesn't help. Failing that, well, Phantom Hourglass completely fucked up making her a more capable heroine when they REALLY didn't need to do the whole
"Zelda's in danger!"
thing this time.
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
Roto13 said:
Pretty much. I'm sure this whole thing was much more for the father than for the daughter.

If he wants a heroine in Wind Waker, that's what Tetra's for.
Click to expand...

I don't understand where it's so offensive that we need to speak in terms of "who it's for." He clearly had his daughter in mind and its admirable that someone would go through such lengths to raise their children in what they deem a positive way.

Some people seem really upset by this and I can't wrap my head around why. Exactly what bad result will come of this?
 
R

Roto13

Member
Eusis said:
I imagine the fact she ends up (oh god does it even matter to hide spoilers at this point)
being Zelda, and the damsel in distress
doesn't help. Failing that, well, Phantom Hourglass completely fucked up making her a more capable heroine when they REALLY didn't need to do the whole
"Zelda's in danger!"
thing this time.
Click to expand...

She only gets kidnapped at the very end of the game for like five minutes. Before that she's a pirate queen and after that she's firing light arrows at Ganondorf.

She's pretty much more awesome than Link.

odd_morsel said:
I don't understand where it's so offensive that we need to speak in terms of "who it's for." He clearly had his daughter in mind and its admirable that someone would go through such lengths to raise their children in what they deem a positive way.

Some people seem really upset by this and I can't wrap my head around why. Exactly what bad result will come of this?
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I don't find that so clear. It's such a pointless act that it really just reeks of attention whoring.
 
O

opticalmace

Member
That is awesome!

Do any games change use appropriate pronouns depending on which gender you pick? Or do they stick to something generic?
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
Eusis said:
If Wind Waker's being called too much for a 3 year old than the Metroid games definitely are. At ten years old I found parts of Super Metroid scary, though I was kind of a wimp about that.
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Barring the end, I don't feel that WW is too much for a three-year old. Not content-wise, anyways.
 
K

Kazerei

Banned
Smiles and Cries said:
same difference but does he edit all of the classic children books for her?

Does he read her SLEEPING HANDSOME instead of Sleeping Beauty?
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What's wrong with editing stories? I mean, telling your kids about Santa Claus is lying too, but you're making it out to be a problem that it's not.
 
P

Pau

Member
I've always wanted to play a Legend of Zelda game where Zelda is the playable protagonist. I mean a good game. Not the CD-i ones.

And I've played through Wind Waker with my three-year-old cousin watching. She loved it and found the "scary" bits hilarious. She would also stop me every time text appeared on the screen and ask me to translate.

But it is a real shame that there aren't more games with female protagonists that young girls can enjoy. I certainly don't think I ever played any when I was little. The first time I ever did was Pokemon: Crystal Version and it was kind of mindblowing that I could finally be the hero and a girl.
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
Pau said:
I've always wanted to play a Legend of Zelda game where Zelda is the playable protagonist. I mean a good game. Not the CD-i ones.

And I've played through Wind Waker with my three-year-old cousin watching. She loved it and found the "scary" bits hilarious. She would also stop me every time text appeared on the screen and ask me to translate.

But it is a real shame that there aren't more games with female protagonists that young girls can enjoy. I certainly don't think I ever played any when I was little. The first time I ever did was Pokemon: Crystal Version and it was kind of mindblowing that I could finally be the hero and a girl.
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I don't feel Zelda would be a great protagonist, personally. I'm leaning towards a female Link myself. It's not like Link is one character anyways.
 
R

Roto13

Member
JokerOfSpades said:
I don't feel Zelda would be a great protagonist, personally. I'm leaning towards a female Link myself. It's not like Link is one character anyways.
Click to expand...

The internet would freak out.

I'd have no problem at all with it though. It might weird up the Link/Zelda dynamic though.

Unless they made Zelda a dude. Named Zeldo.
 
M

Master Milk

Member
It's such a shame that his daughter will forever be three years old and never have the chance to play this game again as she grows older and is better able to read for herself.
 
E

etiolate

Banned
Zelda could be a protagonist. It's not like there's one Zelda across all the games. Wind Waker Zelda is different from Twilight Princess Zelda.

Not only would a Zelda game work, but so would a Ganoondorf game.

Tingle and Peach already have their own games. I mean... come on.
 
H

Hobbestetrician

Member
Jesus fucking Christ, this is the most cynical response to a great thing.

Wind Waker has endured both graphically and in it's ability to get people to act like children in all the wrong ways.

Good on him. I have always wanted a Zelda game where you actually play as Zelda (not the shitty CD-i game). I think Nintendo made a mistake not having Tetra be the playable character of Phantom Hourglass or have gotten another game. Sheik too.
 
K

Kazerei

Banned
JokerOfSpades said:
I don't know how big of a deal that is, as I've never believed in Santa Claus.
Click to expand...

It's not a big deal, that's the point. Lying to your kid about Santa Claus ... telling your kid Link is a girl ... it's just fun, and it won't scar them when they realize otherwise.
 
B

Bobby Roberts

Banned
JokerOfSpades said:
I don't feel Zelda would be a great protagonist, personally. I'm leaning towards a female Link myself. It's not like Link is one character anyways.
Click to expand...

Roto13 said:
The internet would freak out.

I'd have no problem at all with it though.
Click to expand...

Wait, just to be clear - weren't you both arguing earlier that this guy rewriting Wind Waker so that Link is a girl is a silly move? If both of you are in fact cool with the idea of Link being made a girl in a game, why would his editing of the game to make that the case be a negative thing?

Is it that he's editing the game's content that makes it illegitimate? Is it that Nintendo didn't implement the change in gender themselves?
 
X

xir

Likely to be eaten by a grue
ooooh, the pronoun game. I think Ursula Le Guin has a good essay about this one for Left Hand of Darkness..
 
P

Paranerd

Neo Member
In the hypothetical situation I end up with kids, it makes me think what games I'd want them to play. I dunno, but I think Wind Waker would be frustrating for me at three years old, considering how text-heavy it is.
 
L

LiK

Member
well, she will know the truth when she's older. cuz all the kids will laugh when she says Link is a girl.
 
K

Kazerei

Banned
toddhunter said:
Because if you are three you cannot read well enough or quickly enough, or for long enough to make the experience worth the effort. If you have a super kid who can, then awesome. Some kids can read at that age a little. But that is reading like "see the red ball". You show a three year old a wall of text, it is not getting read.

So, he is reading it to her, which makes changing the text completely pointless.

The time spent doing a text change which is completely unnecessary then? Well could have drawn a picture, or taken her to the park to play on the swings or even got some rest so that he was in a better mood to play with her the next day and didn't spend his time playing video games he wanted to play when he should have been spending time with her.

That sort of stuff.
Click to expand...

He's probably reading to her, but it's not pointless, because that's how kids start learning to read for themselves.
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
Kazerei said:
What's wrong with editing stories? I mean, telling your kids about Santa Claus is lying too, but you're making it out to be a problem that it's not.
Click to expand...

It is a problem because that child is not living in a bubble. You cannot protect her forever from the truth.

Some people grow up knowing there is no Santa Claus

While others go on into Adulthood holding strong crushing faith that Jesus is the Son of God

There is always a problem when we cannot face reality and make up our own mythos to live by.

She does not have to be programmed to be a strong woman, just help her think for herself play the real game without an edit and point out why this society has Link as a boy and Zelda as a girl. Talk to her, help her think things through with knowledge of how things are today and why they need to change for her to have a much better chance in this world as a woman.

Gender roles won't go away with edits.
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
FatboyRoberts said:
Wait, just to be clear - weren't you both arguing earlier that this guy rewriting Wind Waker so that Link is a girl is a silly move? If both of you are in fact cool with the idea of Link being made a girl in a game, why would his editing of the game to make that the case be a negative thing?

Is it that he's editing the game's content that makes it illegitimate? Is it that Nintendo didn't implement the change in gender themselves?
Click to expand...

I'm not against more female protagonists and I'm not against Link being female.

My problem is that him going through the game for that purpose is OD. It's not like she can't play games with male protagonists - being a male (the "privileged" gender), I should be more adverse to playing as another gender, but I don't give a shit - I play games that I like, plain and simple. And changing the gender of the character artificially is excessive and unnecessary to me.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
I've always felt that the Zelda series was gender-neutral.

There are independent female characters as well as effeminate males.
 
K

Kazerei

Banned
Smiles and Cries said:
It is a problem because that child is not living in a bubble. You cannot protect her forever from the truth.

Some people grow up knowing their is no Santa Claus

While others go on into Adulthood holding strong crushing faith that Jesus is the Son of God

There is always a problem when we cannot face reality and make up our own mythos to live by.

She does not have to be programmed to be a strong woman, just help her think for herself play the real game without an edit and point out why this society has Link as a boy and Zelda as a girl. Talk to her, help her think things through with knowledge of how things are today and why they need to change for her to have a much better chance in this world as a woman.

Gender roles won't go away with edits.
Click to expand...

Again, I think you're overblowing things. It's just a story. You could apply what you're saying to every Disney-feel-good-fantasy story that kids grow up with. It doesn't mean they can't face reality when they grow up. Just let 'em have some fun, they'll be fine.
 
BasilZero

BasilZero

Member
At that age, I would be too busy having fun with the actual game rather than worrying about gender issues....Hell I still dont care about issues like gender when it comes to gaming l0l
 
Smiles and Cries

Smiles and Cries

Member
Kazerei said:
Again, I think you're overblowing things. It's just a story. You could apply what you're saying to every Disney-feel-good-fantasy story that kids grow up with. It doesn't mean they can't face reality when they grow up. Just let 'em have some fun, they'll be fine.
Click to expand...

true enough.
 
E

Eusis

Member
Roto13 said:
She only gets kidnapped at the very end of the game for like five minutes. Before that she's a pirate queen and after that she's firing light arrows at Ganondorf.

She's pretty much more awesome than Link.
Click to expand...
True, though I still stand by Phantom Hourglass screwing it up. Could've had her keep an active roll through the game instead of acting as a living MacGuffin.
JokerOfSpades said:
Barring the end, I don't feel that WW is too much for a three-year old. Not content-wise, anyways.
Click to expand...
Yeah, and I don't think a bit of darkness in a story means it should be absolutely avoided, just consider the whole of the work. And Wind Waker's about on the level of a Disney film there whereas Metroid can, at its worst, be a cleaned up version of Alien/Aliens. Still too dark for a toddler unless you're being very careful, I guess the first could fly but most didn't even know she was a she until they beat it fast enough (or more likely read about it in a magazine).
 
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