[Joni]

Are any of those games even good? I've only heard of too human. Edit: Most don't even exist yet, that's why I never heard of them.

Too Human and X-Men Destiny are not good, the two others haven't been released.

[tsab]

Are any of those games even good? I've only heard of too human. Edit: Most don't even exist yet, that's why I never heard of them.

only Too Human and X-men were released and according to gaf Too Human sucked and X-Men sucked even harder because of low budget.

The rest were in developement or shelved

[dionysus]

Pro-tip: Don't launch a lawsuit against anybody when you don't have a case.

Perhaps we have the timing wrong.

SK stops paying Epic -> Epic starts gathering evidence in preparation for lawsuit -> SK finds out and launches frivolous suit first in order to scare Epic

Pre-emptying a legitimate lawsuit by suing first is not uncommon. You basically are trying to convince the party with the legitimate grievance that it won't be worth the legal costs and gain leverage to force an early settlement.

[tsab]

And then it hit me!

[Xenon]

only Too Human and X-men were released and according to gaf Too Human sucked and X-Men sucked even harder because of low budget. The rest were in developement or shelved

I think most of the people who actually owned Too Human thought thought it was at least a decent game. You also have a number of people who really loved it. But I think they are drowned out by people who just played the demo or jumped on the hate bandwagon.

X-Men was shit and is pretty much indefensible.

[MG310]

Well good, now they get to know how it felt to be a person who paid for X-Men Destiny.

[EVOL 100%]

The final nail in the coffin I see.

[Joni]

Perhaps we have the timing wrong. SK stops paying Epic -> Epic starts gathering evidence in preparation for lawsuit -> SK finds out and launches frivolous suit first in order to scare Epic Pre-emptying a legitimate lawsuit by suing first is not uncommon. You basically are trying to convince the party with the legitimate grievance that it won't be worth the legal costs and gain leverage to force an early settlement.

Epic wouldn't have been able to gather evidence. They needed the judge to give them access to the source code. He wouldn't really do that without a reason. Epic could also leverage their Microsoft connection if they wanted to get everything sorted out.

[rakhir]

only Too Human and X-men were released and according to gaf Too Human sucked and X-Men sucked even harder because of low budget.

Apparently is sucked due to management failing, manpower being used elsewhere; doomed from the start basically. There's a great article on Kotaku about this:

http://kotaku.com/5955223/what-went-...-x+men-destiny

[Lombax]

Are any of those games even good? I've only heard of too human. Edit: Most don't even exist yet, that's why I never heard of them.

I enjoyed Too Human for what it was but in my opinion it was average at best.

[Ridley327]

Ok, past the GameCube age and besides Too Human and X-men destiny, what else did SK even make? I mean it, I don't know anything else they made and Too Human wasn't even worth while.

Silicon Knights helped out on the first Darksiders game, but other than that, they had more prototypes that fell through than they released games this gen.

[RiccochetJ]

Damn. I was really hoping to see Too Human 2. I don't see them recovering from this.

[PeteZaTheHutt]

My copy of Too Human is going to be a collectors item!

I've got a SIGNED copy! I live just 10 minutes down the road from St.Catharines, Ontario and I actually met DD and the SK team at EB Games on release day. I just noticed that DD's signature is very shaky...

[INDIGO_CYCLOPS]

SK used Epic's code on multiple games, all the while thinking they could get away with it. There is no point in firing Dyack because SK is done. The staff has no engine they can use now and they will have to tool up and learn to use a new one. Not worth the money.

I'd love to see the conversation where Dyack fires himself.

I've never heard of this happening in video games, is this a first?

[clem84]

I don't understand why they'd have to do this. After the initial problems they had with UE3, Dyack said that they decided not to use UE3 and they wrote their own engine. If they were never able to use UE3 for any of their games, why the need to recall and destroy all these games?

[Joni]

I don't understand why they'd have to do this. After the initial problems they had with UE3, Dyack said that they decided not to use UE3 and they wrote their own engine. If they were never able to use UE3 for any of their games, why the need to recall and destroy all these games?

He lied, they used a modified UE3 and just removed all Epic copyright statements.

[Waaghals]

There was also the fact that removed Epic's copyright information from the code and did not credit Epic via a little splash screen at the start of the game which were probably clearly defined in the contract they signed. I think morally SK had a very valid issue. Being a game-developer and licensing a game engine is a huge conflict of interest. It basically puts them in direct competition with their customers. The fact that they released their first game without the same issues most of the other developers had shows that SK had a valid case. Had Denis stuck with the U3 or actually created their own engine he may have had a leg to stand on. But like everything else he has done, while he may have a point, he goes about acting on it in completely the wrong way. The sad thing is had SK not sued Epic, I don't think they would have pursued any legal action against Silicon Knights. Now their hand is almost forced to make an example out of them.

I agree completely. But I am convinced that SK had far bigger problems than those related to UE3. There have been some reports that Dyack was completely unsuited for leading a game studio. Their last great game was made under heavy oversight from Nintendo.

[Chakan]

Destroy all Too Human copies?

Not a bad thing.

[Cheerilee]

I don't understand why they'd have to do this. After the initial problems they had with UE3, Dyack said that they decided not to use UE3 and they wrote their own engine. If they were never able to use UE3 for any of their games, why the need to recall and destroy all these games?

They changed one piece of the engine that they didn't like. Then they changed another. Then another and another. And the pieces they were "creating" were entirely derivative of UE3.

At some point, they thought they had more band-aids and duct tape than game engine in there, so if they swapped out whatever was left (even the parts of UE3 that worked for them), they'd have a whole new engine, very much based on UE3, but built entirely out of band-aids and duct tape. And then they wouldn't owe Epic anything!

The courts disagreed.

[Azih]

Yeah code should not be destroyed if just for historical and archival purposes.

[kuroshiki]

I suggest everyone get Too Human while you have the chance! It's going to be a piece of video game history.

Are you trolling or being serious.

[Rollo Tomasi]

Dyack, tell me how my ass taste, Dyack, tell me how my ass taste

Sincerely, Epic Games.

[slasher_thrasher21]

You know.. I actually completed Xmen Destiny, and while I didn't think it was anything special, when I looked at it like it was a very typical side scrolling arcade beat em up. I didn't think it was too bad... but yeah... still what a peice.... I remember I was in a group panel at comic con in San Diego, and was under NDA discussing "what if we had this game where you created your own X-men, and what would you like to see" It turned out to be nothing like everyone in the room was talking about...
Dreams crushed right there.

[Flachmatuch]

I think most of the people who actually owned Too Human thought thought it was at least a decent game. You also have a number of people who really loved it. But I think they are drowned out by people who just played the demo or jumped on the hate bandwagon.

Too Human was a loot game with about four hours or so of content. It did the loot stuff reasonably well but the lack of content was idiotic.


Anyway, destroying stuff is really fucked up.

[krypt0nian]

That would require demand

EviLore, the new Avi screams LotR elf! GAF funds for ear extensions! <3

[ironcreed]

I had fun with Too Human, but it is nothing I want to run out and buy again because of this.

[el retorno]

lol.

I still like twin snakes though

[RiZ III]

Thought they didn't use UE3 after suing Epic and instead wrote their own engine??

[blackflag]

Thought they didn't use UE3 after suing Epic and instead wrote their own engine??

The answer is on this page.

[Xenon]

Are you trolling or being serious.

Too Human was a loot game with about four hours or so of content. It did the loot stuff reasonably well but the lack of content was idiotic. Anyway, destroying stuff is really fucked up.

Totally, I loved the game. It didn't really get interesting until the second and third run through which is when the difficulty jumped up. The combat had a level of complexity that is unmatched in console loot games. There was so much depth to it once you got into the game.

One of my favorite achievements, personal not through XBL, this gen was getting a character to level 50 without dying. This is something I would normally never bother with in a loot game. I enjoyed the combat that much.

[fin]

Doesn't Nintendo still own part of silicon knights? Just not controlling share? I can see them doing the same thing with iguana studios. Buy all the remaining shares, fire the CEO, and take control.

[Az987]

I got Too Human for free because I did a survey with Microsoft about 1 vs 100 and I could pick any MS published game. I think its still sealed and I'm still bummed I didn't take The Lost Odyssey instead.

I better go destroy it.

[big_erk]

Curious about this, myself. Too Human was Dyack's baby and now he's got to take it around back and shoot it with a vaporizer.

[Imperial Hot]

I'm upset for the people at Silicon Knights, but Dennis Dyack is crazy, self-absorbed, and clearly brought this upon himself.

For.

[Roto13]

And then it hit me!

Then he failed, because he has to destroy all of those "limited" copies. :P

I'd love to see the conversation where Dyack fires himself. I've never heard of this happening in video games, is this a first?

It happened with Tetris on NES. :P And probably other times.

[TheSeks]

I don't understand why they have to destroy the code instead of surrendering it to the court/Epic.

I mean surely there's some historical/archive reasoning they could use to prevent this? Even if Too Human is a bad game

[v1oz]

He lied, they used a modified UE3 and just removed all Epic copyright statements.

How do you know this? How can anyone outside of SK know what the source code is.

[JaseC]

How do you know this?

He's referring to Epic's counterclaim that SK's "proprietary" engine was built using UE3 code. To quote myself:

Precisely the reason for the counterclaim: In 2007 Silicon Knights founder Denis Dyack alleged that Epic had failed to provide the Ontario studio with a game engine of the quality that it was originally promised. Dyack also claimed that the expensive development of Too Human was due to his studio's decision to abandon Unreal Engine 3. Silicon Knights went on to build its own tech, which it claimed was proprietary, to finish work on Too Human. Epic countersued Dyack's company for allegedly plagiarising Unreal tech when building its new engine.

[VICI0US]

and the slim hope for a SK developed eternal darkness sequel gets even slimmer.

[Joni]

How do you know this? How can anyone outside of SK know what the source code is.

Epic had a hunch, said so against the judge, requested to investigate it, invegistation turned out positive, and the judge said Epic was right. Which lead to the judgment on the first page and me knowing that.

[fin]

Yeah it looks like, as of March 2012, Nintendo owns a minority share of SK.

So is it worth while to let the company go bankrupt or increase to majority share owner and attempt to make it a success?

[JaseC]

and the slim hope for a SK developed eternal darkness sequel gets even slimmer.

Dyack's hubris destroyed that, too.

[StoppedInTracks]

Being ordered by court to destroy your unreleased games (Sandman, Siren) is the ultimate self-ownage. Pretty sad too.

[rosaceadude2112]

My friend played the Too Human demo with his elbows. I guess that's all I have to add. See ya.

[v1oz]

Epic had a hunch, said so against the judge, requested to investigate it, invegistation turned out positive, and the judge said Epic was right. Which lead to the judgment on the first page and me knowing that.

I see so SK lied about rewriting the engine for the game.

Yeah it looks like, as of March 2012, Nintendo owns a minority share of SK. So is it worth while to let the company go bankrupt or increase to majority share owner and attempt to make it a success?

Nintendo should get rid of Dyack. Get some fresh blood into the team. And make then work on Eternal Darkness 2.

[chaostrophy]

The code should be preserved just so people aren't drawn to such a bad game for being "forbidden".

[SniperHunter]

this confirms my suspicion, the Silicon knights engine was basically hacked together with mostly UE3 code. I guess Epic found out somehow and now are making these demands

[Ridley327]

I see so SK lied about rewriting the engine for the game. Nintendo should get rid of Dyack. Get some fresh blood into the team. And make then work on Eternal Darkness 2.

The problem is that getting rid of Dyack would be getting rid of one-fifth of the current SK staff. They're circling the drain, and nothing can stop it.

[onQ123]

I thought Unreal code destroyed all games on it's own.






Trollface.jpg

[Delightful Oonsk]

I like the alternate interpretation of the thread title that Silicon Knights must use Unreal code to eradicate all software known to man.