[Good Job Bob]

Wow this console is a mess.

[Reiko]

I'm guessing once the PS4 and next Xbox come out, the Wii U'll likely be seeing 30fps ports of Call of Duty just like the Wii did.

If the graphics engine doesn't change...

[TheGreatDivide]

Yes that is my lineup to prove they care,rockstar doesn't want to port GTA5 i guess due to the wiiu having a different architecture.

Well, to respond to your list, they're all cheap, relatively insignificant games. Yes, even Bayonetta. They're also all being published by Nintendo.

[Zzoram]

so compared to xbox360, ps3 how is the wii u?

At best, on par it seems, unless the GPU is a magic unicorn.

[Durante]

so compared to xbox360, ps3 how is the wii u?

Look in the OP for a memory bandwidth comparison. (That's the only thing we have hard data on to compare)

[maquiladora]

What...

[ghst]

gamers must be the only high end tech enthusiasts who buy new devices with zero knowledge of their technical specifications.

[TheGreatDivide]

gamers must be the only high end tech enthusiasts who buy new devices with zero knowledge of their technical specifications.

Apple fans.

[AzaK]

A next gen system with a memory pool slower then 7 year old hardware. How is that possible Nintendo.

X Total Budget - Y Cost of GamePad - Z cost of everything else ~= 0

Iwata: "So, how much is Y going to cost?"
Engineers: "$300"
Iwata: "Oh, bummer"

gamers must be the only high end tech enthusiasts who buy new devices with zero knowledge of their technical specifications.

You're wrong, but even if it was true, it's likely because they care more about the games anyway.

[zoukka]

I'm guessing once the PS4 and next Xbox come out, the Wii U'll likely be seeing 30fps ports of Call of Duty just like the Wii did.

If we are lucky and the games can be even downported to Wii U...

Not looking good at this point.

[Margalis]

Instead of being lazy, why not refute it with facts. Oh, and please don't use Durante's post and rearrange some words.

Lol.

The question was "which one gives better results." The answer is completely dependent on what "better results" means and how the RAM is used.

So if 512 at 22 is better than 1GB at 17 does that mean the 360 would be even better with 256 megs of ram running at say 30 or so? What about 128 megs at 50, or 64 at 80?

[Darryl]

gamers must be the only high end tech enthusiasts who buy new devices with zero knowledge of their technical specifications.

college students

[Untalkative_Bunny]

Nintendo gamers must be the only high end tech enthusiasts who buy new devices with zero knowledge of their technical specifications.

fixed that

[Doc Holliday]

so compared to xbox360, ps3 how is the wii u?

Just going by the evidence available to us, i would say about the same or slightly weaker. Just going by the games and the specs revealed so far. Quite a feat by Nintendo if you ask me :/

[scitek]

If the graphics engine doesn't change...

Why would Treyarch have bothered with DX11 if they were going to change engines?

[WonkersTHEWatilla]

gamers must be the only high end tech enthusiasts who buy new devices with zero knowledge of their technical specifications.

Really? How about people who buy smart phones, tablets?

edit: oh wait I thought you meant "understanding". Disregard.

[Sid]

Well, to respond to your list, they're all cheap, relatively insignificant games. Yes, even Bayonetta. They're also all being published by Nintendo.

Still they are third party games and are being published by nintendo because they want third party games on their platform to sell also having games like AC3 and BO2 support my point.

Anyways this spec doesn't bode well for next gen ports to the wiiu imo.

[Krappadizzle]

Comparison: 360: 22.4 GB/s + eDRAM for framebuffer PS3: 25.6 GB/s main memory BW + 22.4 GB/s graphics memory BW, no eDRAM GTX 680: 192.2 GB/s :P

680 is so beastly. It's a great card.

[Reiko]

Next-gen engines will easily be scalable enough. They'll probably scale to cell phones. The issue is, will next-gen AAA console games be scalable enough without major cuts?

I dunno Durante. According to the Battlefield 4 rumor... EA is ignoring Wii U all together while providing DX9 quality ports for PS3/360.

Why would Treyarch have bothered with DX11 if they were going to change engines?

DX11 features bolted on. Not really made from the ground up.

[Eusis]

fixed that

Probably not, given how some seem to act about PC hardware relative to consoles.

Frankly, a lot of it has to do with the fact the hardware ISN'T as important for the consumer to know all about as, say, a computer. A weak computer limits what WE can do with it, while a week console limits what THEY, the developers, can do with it. Everyone buying a Wii U is going to be able to run the same games, same software, so there's no reason to bother sweating the specs too much outside of some enthusiasts (like, uhh, those of us here). And at least for me I only sweat it because I want better developer support, otherwise I'll be content so long as everything runs smoothly (... unfortunately not sounding like the case), even if I'll fantasize about what a little extra push will do.

[ASIS]

gamers must be the only high end tech enthusiasts who buy new devices with zero knowledge of their technical specifications.

Because creativity plays a bigger part than technicality. Wii U, at least on launch, has none. Still excited though :P

[WonkersTHEWatilla]

So the issues plaguing Wii U ports in the ME3/NG3 port technical issues thread may not be totally blamed on the developers?

[Terrell]

I'll wait until someone who I've heard of before does a teardown and can accurately identify the components. Just looking at the guts doesn't really help with any understanding, especially when lacking GPU/CPU details that can only be found out through proper testing of an open unit.

[Zzoram]

I don't see how the Wii U in any way caters to 3rd parties other than having more buttons than a Wiimote.

Without the motion gimmick, the Wii U will certainly not sell as well as the Wii. Everyone I know bought it because of the whole "gaming as exercise" idea. Even with insane sales, the Wii was almost completely ignored by 3rd parties. If the Wii U sells worse than the Wii (it will), the 3rd party support will be even worse because it will be as far behind the PS4/720 as the Wii was behind the PS3/360.

[zoukka]

So the issues plaguing Wii U ports in the ME3/NG3 port technical issues thread may not be totally blamed on the developers?

No matter how good the hardware, there will always be lazy ports.

[Untalkative_Bunny]

Probably not, given how some seem to act about PC hardware relative to consoles.

what i meant was that Nintendo is the only electronics/computer type manufacturer that doesn't tell people what they are buying. Or at least the only one I know of. When I looked at phones, all the info was available. Same with tablets, tvs...ymmv, imho, etc

[Chiggs]

I honestly don't know what the answer is, but I just wanted to point out that post doesn't work when you don't post any fact to back up your own claim. That post works when you post some analysis backed by facts and then someone just says "no." Then you can call them out on it. Not when both of you post essentially nothing.

Fair enough. Here's my simplistic reasoning. The RAM is too slow, and while we don't have all the details about the GPU, it's becoming increasingly difficult to consider this console definitively more powerful than either the 360 or PS3. Furthermore, I'm not left feeling very confident about future multiplatform titles because of the memory. Perhaps the glitches and performance issues we're seeing in ME3 and Arkham City are indicative of things to come?

I would personally rather have a smaller amount of faster memory than a larger pool of slower memory. Just my two cents on the matter. I'm certainly not a developer, but I'm not sure how this machine's memory can be looked at in a positive light.

[Xellos]

So I'm trying to understand the math on calculating bandwidth. Is this saying that Wii U has a 64-bit memory interface, or that the RAM is just super slow?

[Brad Grenz]

680 is so beastly. It's a great card.

A Radeon's 7970's memory bandwidth is around 260 GB/s.

[Eusis]

So the issues plaguing Wii U ports in the ME3/NG3 port technical issues thread may not be totally blamed on the developers?

I think problems like that are usually, though not always, two ended. I kind of expect that given enough time and hardware familiarity they could mask the problems easier, but as is they'll stand out more.

what i meant was that Nintendo is the only electronics/computer type manufacturer that doesn't tell people what they are buying. Or at least the only one I know of. When I looked at phones, all the info was available. Same with tablets, tvs...ymmv, imho, etc

They ARE some of the most secretive... But no, Apple can be worse, and it really IS worse because unlike Nintendo consoles there can be very real differences between models. Just look at iPhone 4 versus iPod Touch 4g, I don't think they mentioned the latter having a TN display or having half the ram, it took teardowns (well, just inspecting the display for the former) to really know how different it was.

[Durante]

I have to admit, I'm looking forward to all the specs being fully confirmed in this manner, so that I can say the same things I've been saying for months but without a horde of angry fans jumping down my throat.

Sadly it's much harder to get real data on the other components.

I'll wait until someone who I've heard of before does a teardown and can accurately identify the components.

Yeah, PCPer is well known for realtime-editing their teardown videos to change the part numbers on memory chips. Wait what?

[Eteric Rice]

Is this the RAM for the OS, or the RAM for the games?

[Alextended]

I dunno Durante. According to the Battlefield 4 rumor... EA is ignoring Wii U all together while providing DX9 quality ports for PS3/360.

How does that reply to what Durante said? He's speaking about the technical feasibility of ports and you respond with showing EA is seemingly unwilling to support the platform regardless of the system specs.

[Horse Armour]

I'll wait until someone who I've heard of before does a teardown and can accurately identify the components. Just looking at the guts doesn't really help with any understanding, especially when lacking GPU/CPU details that can only be found out through proper testing of an open unit.

So you're saying PCPer were CGing the memory chip serials in real time to make them look worse?

Is this the RAM for the OS, or the RAM for the games?

Everything.

[AzaK]

fixed that

So you're saying that if there were no Durango/Orbis leaks no MS or SONY enthusiasts would buy their consoles until they knew all the specs? Stop being so asinine.

[cyberheater]

Fair enough. Here's my simplistic reasoning. The RAM is too slow, and while we don't have all the details about the GPU, it's becoming increasingly difficult to consider this console definitively more powerful than either the 360 or PS3. Furthermore, I'm not left feeling very confident about future multiplatform titles because of the memory. Perhaps the glitches and performance issues we're seeing in ME3 and Arkham City are indicative of things to come? I would personally rather have a smaller amount of faster memory than a larger pool of slower memory. Just my two cents on the matter. I'm certainly not a developer, but I'm not sure how this machine's memory can be looked at in a positive light.

Yep. No wonder the devs were under such a strict NDA.

[Sid]

Is this the RAM for the OS, or the RAM for the games?

Total RAM for both.

[The Abominable Snowman]

Not entirely true though, other than the specs Nintendo really seemed to cater to third parties MUCH more than usual. That's why this news caught me off guard.

I honestly dont see what they did so different than what they did for the GC and Wii.

GC moreso, because that honestly felt like the console Nintendo focused on getting 3rd parties the most.

[Hydrargyrus]

Is this the RAM for the OS, or the RAM for the games?

Both. The 2GB are DDR3

[Log4Girlz]

This does not surprise me. A few posters on this and other forums were already speculating on certain specifications and discussed possible scenarios where the main ram would actually be slower than current gen.

[Untalkative_Bunny]

So you're saying that if there were no Durango/Orbis leaks no MS or SONY enthusiasts would buy their consoles until they knew all the specs? Stop being so asinine.

I'm saying sony and ms will tell people what they are buying, unlike nintendo. whether their customers care or not, i cannot say.

[Brad Grenz]

Is this the RAM for the OS, or the RAM for the games?

Both. They aren't physically separate.

[Raitosaito]

Man, I'll buy it when Zelda comes out and that's it.

[Reiko]

How does that reply to what Durante said? He's speaking about the technical feasibility of ports and you respond with showing EA is seemingly unwilling to support the platform regardless of the system specs.

Maybe Frostbite 2.0 could be a bit of trouble on the Wii U if most of the code is dependent on CPU tasks.

It would need some serious retooling.

Now if the Wii U is getting stripped down ports of the Orbis/720 versions... That's another problem.

[gamergirly]

Fair enough. Here's my simplistic reasoning. The RAM is too slow, and while we don't have all the details about the GPU, it's becoming increasingly difficult to consider this console definitively more powerful than either the 360 or PS3. Furthermore, I'm not left feeling very confident about future multiplatform titles because of the memory. Perhaps the glitches and performance issues we're seeing in ME3 and Arkham City are indicative of things to come? I would personally rather have a smaller amount of faster memory than a larger pool of slower memory. Just my two cents on the matter. I'm certainly not a developer, but I'm not sure how this machine's memory can be looked at in a positive light.

We need to wait for the complete picture before a death knell is thrown into the mix. We have the memory, but not the CPU or GPU confirmations. And given how it's supposed to be architecturally different, Wii U being less powerful than 360/PS3 cannot be concluded

[ChosenPredator]

well this thread is depressing but it doesn't matter as long as good games come out then all is well

[Khold]

Man, I'll buy it when Zelda comes out and that's it.

Yeah, seems like it will be my Nintendo-published games playing machine as was the Wii.

[Ydahs]

Next-gen engines will easily be scalable enough. They'll probably scale to cell phones. The issue is, will next-gen AAA console games be scalable enough without major cuts?

Oh yeah, my bad. That's what I meant.

I don't believe it'll be as bad as Wii to PS360, but the effort required will probably deter some publishers when they compare the costs of porting something over to the WiiU. I guess the supposedly modern GPU is what it has going for it at the moment. There are workarounds for slow RAM.

[KiNeSiS]

Just as I said knowing Nintendo's recent history.
I told you all it would be on par or weaker than the HD twins.
Wii-K U Indeed


Why so expensive? Nintendo sure are late & ill equipped for this current generation party.

[Eteric Rice]

Why would they go for slower RAM? This makes no sense.