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Agni's Philosophy runs at 60FPS on a GTX 680, uses 1.8GB VRAM. Can next-gen run it?

You are really looking bad right now. You've done absolutely nothing to retort, other than put yourself up on a pedestal for no reason at all.

If you're going to continue to just troll around and not offer any explanation whatsoever, I'm done here.

I have to assume at this point that he's just trolling you. Relax, take a deep breath, and ignore him.
 

DonMigs85

Member
Please enlighten us.

tumblr_m9jv5sm7aa1rnux7eo1_500.gif
 
Would the APU+GPU hardware somewhat accomodate for the GPU itself having less raw horsepower? You could certainly use the APU to good effect here or have it in pseudo-SLI with load balancing?
 

TheD

The Detective
SMH. I'm tearing-up right now Zyrusticae, you're phenomenal.

WTF are you on about?

Having more RAM does not have anything to do with CPU load directly.

Having more RAM means that you can have more data quickly accessible to the CPU instead of having to keep it on a storage system and thus leave the CPU waiting a very long time to transfer data into RAM, only after it is done can the CPU start work (none of that is CPU load, that is a stall).

The only way having more RAM could help CPU load is if the data on disk was compressed to save bandwidth and the CPU would have to decompress it before it could use the data.

But as long as you have the data you need in RAM when you need it, the CPU will be fine.
 
You stated in an absolutist way a dip in frame rate was ENTIRELY due to disk swapping, obviously that is not the case as I cannot run a game at its full potential if my system my system is under-powered, did you not?

No, that's not what he said. What he said was:

ALL of the FPS dip from having a low RAM count is from disk swapping.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
They're pretty darn close though. In some benchmarks the 7870 even outperforms the 680, moreso with the latest drivers.

You are thinking of a 7970.....the 7870 aint got shit on a 680.

On Topic
If you look at what ArchViz can be done in UE3 and CryEngine 3 in real time at ~60fps from people who arent the best at optimization im not shocked this studio managed to pull this off on one GTX680.

Also, from my bad google translation it seems alot of the lighting is actually prebaked and not interactive at all, not a bad thing for scenery and vast scapes and all....but what happens in tighter situations and when err if there are dynamic lights. If the AO is precalculated then would any sort of spell that brings light out make objects seem ill lit?

Honestly beyond the Baked lighting, the Hair shader and their implementation of SSS im not blown away by this at all. And Baked light doesnt even impress me anymore.....we are beyond this arent we?
I imagine next gen consoles will be able to pull this off with a little more optimization and some sacrifices to the high res assets.......just get better Maps god damn it.
Not even the Particle effects impress me that much.


This could have been done on a PC from last year.......beyond the baked GI in the background which is absolutely amazing nothing kills me.
IhEqe.jpg
 
Would the APU+GPU hardware somewhat accomodate for the GPU itself having less raw horsepower? You could certainly use the APU to good effect here or have it in pseudo-SLI with load balancing?

It probably wouldn't be useful in an SLI type setup, but it could be used in much the same way the CELL's SPE were used for various graphics effects on the PS3. Thinking of an APU as analogous to the CELL is actually probably the best way to understand how it can be best used in a console.
 

DonMigs85

Member
If Sony also rips off Nintendo with a tablet-style controller, maybe the APU can handle the graphics processing for it.
 

Xiaoki

Member
When people calculate "can this run on a PS4 based on rumors" are we taking into account that Square said the Agni demo was extremely unoptimized?

Stuff like rendering toenails for characters that were wearing shoes.
 

DonMigs85

Member
When people calculate "can this run on a PS4 based on rumors" are we taking into account that Square said the Agni demo was extremely unoptimized?

Stuff like rendering toenails for characters that were wearing shoes.

Even now, just look at NFS Most Wanted on PC - it can't reliably hit 60FPS even if you throw gobs of power at it. My guess is massive overdraw/lack of z-culling is the primary reason.
 

zoukka

Member
All tech demos have an edge on real games. They are pre-planned and canned animations and have detailed custom made assets to fill just a scene or a two.

Games would indeed look mindblowing all the time if devs had a year to decorate one enviroment.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Did SMT really get banned for this thread?
Hahaha, aww man you will be missed brother.
 

Zeal

Banned
All I know is this better become a game for next-gen because the premise looked fucking awesome. Major FFVI vibes from this demo, with the magitek and all.
 

Perkel

Banned
You are thinking of a 7970.....the 7870 aint got shit on a 680.

On Topic
If you look at what ArchViz can be done in UE3 and CryEngine 3 in real time at ~60fps from people who arent the best at optimization im not shocked this studio managed to pull this off on one GTX680.

Also, from my bad google translation it seems alot of the lighting is actually prebaked and not interactive at all, not a bad thing for scenery and vast scapes and all....but what happens in tighter situations and when err if there are dynamic lights. If the AO is precalculated then would any sort of spell that brings light out make objects seem ill lit?

Honestly beyond the Baked lighting, the Hair shader and their implementation of SSS im not blown away by this at all. And Baked light doesnt even impress me anymore.....we are beyond this arent we?
I imagine next gen consoles will be able to pull this off with a little more optimization and some sacrifices to the high res assets.......just get better Maps god damn it.
Not even the Particle effects impress me that much.


This could have been done on a PC from last year.......beyond the baked GI in the background which is absolutely amazing nothing kills me.

No we are not done with it. Making something realtime for sake of relatime is not the answer and this was always problem with PC only games. Instead of baking SSAO which could really improve games with only few weird looking places we use now realtime. Sure this isn't good for games with a lot of lighting or day/night cycle but for games with static global lights it should be baked.

Baking is a way which we already are beyond what we could do in real time. Talking about drop of "baking" is not only talk about dropping baked lights but also bump and normal mapping and many other techniques that give us better GFX looks.

This is very important part of optimalization. GOW3 would never look so good without baked AO or Uncharted and both games did not have power to run it real time at this quality.
 

Oemenia

Banned
We all need to remember that console GPUs at least with MS are built with the roadmaps in mind. Both the XBOX and 360 GPUs were on par performance-wise with the high-end but had features of the next lines yet to be released.

Also look at the FF7 Tech Demo, other than the high poly counts, current games look better by leaps and bounds.
 

Momentary

Banned
Has Square-Enix mentioned anything about releasing this tech-demo as a benchmark tool for PCs? It would definitely be neat to have.
 

Perkel

Banned
The Wii U IS next gen guys.

who cares about that if this next gen will only play current gen games.


On topic i would love to see what they did with their vistas. In FFXIII some of them were already mindblowing but here it looks just phenomenal to point where i think they baked vistas as high quality texture.
 

eso76

Member
It would be running some physics routines from what I've seen, the particle effects, the hair and cloth simulation etc.

Those are probably entirely pre-baked, pre-calculated .
No need to run cloth physics in real time in a cut scene, unless you can have characters wearing diff. clothes or something like that.
Or was the demo shown being manipulated in real time (I don't mean just moving the camera around) ?

Also, specs include 32gb ram because the movie constantly switches scenes and characters, all those assets have to be stored in ram. In a console game, the same movie would fade to black here and there and pause for an instant to allow loading different assets.
 

Soi-Fong

Member
Welp too bad a 680 is wayy above what the next gen consoles will be getting. Add to that also the next set of video cards might come out by the time PS4 and 720 come out.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
No we are not done with it. Making something realtime for sake of relatime is not the answer and this was always problem with PC only games. Instead of baking SSAO which could really improve games with only few weird looking places we use now realtime. Sure this isn't good for games with a lot of lighting or day/night cycle but for games with static global lights it should be baked.

Baking is a way which we already are beyond what we could do in real time. Talking about drop of "baking" is not only talk about dropping baked lights but also bump and normal mapping and many other techniques that give us better GFX looks.

This is very important part of optimalization. GOW3 would never look so good without baked AO or Uncharted and both games did not have power to run it real time at this quality.

Woah woah woah.
Why would i get rid of Normal Maps?
I love Normal Maps they are my bread and butter, but do i think tessellation and displacement mapping could outdo Normals, if we focus some research on getting better pixel accurate displacement maps and better forms of tessellation we will be set.

As for my nigh hatred of baked lights, i just find them weak because ive been working with CryEngine for so long.....i understand that they still have their place....somewhere like cellphones. ^_^

I know they will be a part of the gaming industry for a while.....but with the amount of power we are pushing in machines theses days and with the nigh brilliant implementations we already have I see no reason for us to rely on baked lights anymore.

Enlighten and CE3s global lighting would be perfect for nextgen machines.
If a game doesnt actually benefit from realtime id be willing to sacrifice.....but this is a tech demo thats trying to impress me right? No time for shortcuts.
 
Welp too bad a 680 is wayy above what the next gen consoles will be getting. Add to that also the next set of video cards might come out by the time PS4 and 720 come out.

true, BUT the consoles will be finely tuned unlike your average PC which usually just brute-forces its way to nice visuals. I expect to see very solid fps when the games are built for these specific CPUs and GPUs.
 
You are thinking of a 7970.....the 7870 aint got shit on a 680.

On Topic
If you look at what ArchViz can be done in UE3 and CryEngine 3 in real time at ~60fps from people who arent the best at optimization im not shocked this studio managed to pull this off on one GTX680.

Also, from my bad google translation it seems alot of the lighting is actually prebaked and not interactive at all, not a bad thing for scenery and vast scapes and all....but what happens in tighter situations and when err if there are dynamic lights. If the AO is precalculated then would any sort of spell that brings light out make objects seem ill lit?

Honestly beyond the Baked lighting, the Hair shader and their implementation of SSS im not blown away by this at all. And Baked light doesnt even impress me anymore.....we are beyond this arent we?
I imagine next gen consoles will be able to pull this off with a little more optimization and some sacrifices to the high res assets.......just get better Maps god damn it.
Not even the Particle effects impress me that much.


This could have been done on a PC from last year.......beyond the baked GI in the background which is absolutely amazing nothing kills me.
http://i.imgur.com/IhEqe.jpg[./IMG][/QUOTE]

I said the same thing before, about not being blown away by a majority of the tech demos, and was promptly lambasted.

Certain things have wowed me, like the particles and lighting in the UE demo, the character models and cloth/hair in this demo, the environs in certain PC games/mods, etc, but not yet a combination of the three. As time goes on and the tools evolve, I'm sure we will see something come together, just like now in Halo 4 and The Last of Us for the current gen in relation to their tech demos

I noticed that the "Thousands of Characters on screen with physics" thing died down after NNN
 
Those are probably entirely pre-baked, pre-calculated .
No need to run cloth physics in real time in a cut scene, unless you can have characters wearing diff. clothes or something like that.
Or was the demo shown being manipulated in real time (I don't mean just moving the camera around) ?

Also, specs include 32gb ram because the movie constantly switches scenes and characters, all those assets have to be stored in ram. In a console game, the same movie would fade to black here and there and pause for an instant to allow loading different assets.
They have shown the video with hair and beard assets being swapped out for different ones and all of them being affected by the wind and movement differently, as well as different materials and particle effects being swapped out and increased in size and quantity changing how they interact with the scene. I'll post the video later if somebody else doesn't
 
They have shown the video with hair and beard assets being swapped out for different ones and all of them being affected by the wind and movement differently, as well as different materials and particle effects being swapped out and increased in size and quantity changing how they interact with the scene. I'll post the video later if somebody else doesn't
Here is the video proving that the animations and physics aren't canned but real time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO-2rdmbmL4
 

Perkel

Banned
Woah woah woah.
Why would i get rid of Normal Maps?
I love Normal Maps they are my bread and butter, but do i think tessellation and displacement mapping could outdo Normals, if we focus some research on getting better pixel accurate displacement maps and better forms of tessellation we will be set.

As for my nigh hatred of baked lights, i just find them weak because ive been working with CryEngine for so long.....i understand that they still have their place....somewhere like cellphones. ^_^

I know they will be a part of the gaming industry for a while.....but with the amount of power we are pushing in machines theses days and with the nigh brilliant implementations we already have I see no reason for us to rely on baked lights anymore.

Enlighten and CE3s global lighting would be perfect for nextgen machines.
If a game doesnt actually benefit from realtime id be willing to sacrifice.....but this is a tech demo thats trying to impress me right? No time for shortcuts.


Just a reminder why "baked" is not bad therm. Baking allowed us to experience much more than we currently can reproduce in real life. Sure some of techniques are way worse than real time rendered but this allow us to make other things.

For example console GT5. It looks just staggering but almost everything is pre-baked. Smoke which looks like volumetric is still just texture based but with light correction (like backlights).

I really do love day/night cycle in any game but for some games especially linear i don't see a point in using that.

If you take a look at lightmap for baked GI:

30.jpg


you will see that this demo push large amount of polygons. GI with real time shadows would be suicide to any modern GFX card.
 

Krabardaf

Member
Article says processor load was very light, CPU power won't be the problem next gen in achieving this type of fidelity.
indeed, especially when we're offloading things like physics to the GPU.
Plus durango has a very impressive CPU, so i expect the same from PS4. Wouldn't be surprised if it could rivals any modern intel Quad.

And yeah of course next gen will achieve that, that's the whole point of the demo, set the bar for next gen. They"re no Futuremark, they're not trying to melt some hardwhare, they're working on some usabled tech for the future.
Now of course hoping for 60FPS and 8xMSAA is pretty delusional.
 
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