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Agni's Philosophy runs at 60FPS on a GTX 680, uses 1.8GB VRAM. Can next-gen run it?

Desty

Banned
+3GB on the GTX380.. ;)

The demo does do some impressive things.
Their prebaked lighting looks very nice.
A lot of information about the tech demo. (google translate version of the OP)
Some papers and videos on Squares baking ray-tracers etc.

Cool, I did not realize Square had something like this.
Ubisoft and Crytek have something similar. Not sure of other companies though.

I think Agni's philosophy would be possible 720p @ 60 fps on next gen hardware. Just look how far Xbox 360 and PS3 games have come over the years. However, from the translated Japanese page, they said that they had something like 1000 textures per frame. To max out all the detail must have taken considerable art time as well.
 
I said the same thing before, about not being blown away by a majority of the tech demos, and was promptly lambasted.

Certain things have wowed me, like the particles and lighting in the UE demo, the character models and cloth/hair in this demo, the environs in certain PC games/mods, etc, but not yet a combination of the three. As time goes on and the tools evolve, I'm sure we will see something come together, just like now in Halo 4 and The Last of Us for the current gen in relation to their tech demos

I noticed that the "Thousands of Characters on screen with physics" thing died down after NNN

The environments in this look far, far more impressive than any of the high end games I have played on PC. Thats the thing here, while they may be cutting some corners with the tech the overall appearance to me looks very cohesive and far above anything we have seen on PC. The UE4 demo, by contrast, did have some fancy techniques in place, but the demo itself looked a demo you might have seen a number of years back. I suppose the textures in the demo didn't help.
 

Perkel

Banned
Cool, I did not realize Square had something like this.
Ubisoft and Crytek have something similar. Not sure of other companies though.

I think Agni's philosophy would be possible 720p @ 60 fps on next gen hardware. Just look how far Xbox 360 and PS3 games have come over the years. However, from the translated Japanese page, they said that they had something like 1000 textures per frame. To max out all the detail must have taken considerable art time as well.

It's tech demo with a lot of assets. Games will need mayor budet to create whole game with this quality. But tech alone is fantastic imo.
-Skin sharders they use give very convincing look of CGI without mayor hardware usage.
-Per Object AO is also answer to hardware limitations. Right now AO is hardly used because it is costly and it render all objects on screen. Per object would allow to save a lot of power for something else.
-Their hair technology is also phenomenal. You can curl hair in real time and it is physic based in believable way which alone makes this demo amazing and that will also save a lot of assets production.
 

zoukka

Member
The environments in this look far, far more impressive than any of the high end games I have played on PC. Thats the thing here, while they may be cutting some corners with the tech the overall appearance to me looks very cohesive and far above anything we have seen on PC. The UE4 demo, by contrast, did have some fancy techniques in place, but the demo itself looked a demo you might have seen a number of years back. I suppose the textures in the demo didn't help.

That's because they spent one year to create one environment.
 

Perkel

Banned
The environments in this look far, far more impressive than any of the high end games I have played on PC. Thats the thing here, while they may be cutting some corners with the tech the overall appearance to me looks very cohesive and far above anything we have seen on PC. The UE4 demo, by contrast, did have some fancy techniques in place, but the demo itself looked a demo you might have seen a number of years back. I suppose the textures in the demo didn't help.

He speaks about technology not overall look. Innovative technology what they used in demo were, per object AO, hair, skin, and mesh morphing in real time maybe i miss something but vistas were created just by raw assets poly-count, robust of texture and baked GI. It was more of art than technology.

But still this shows how current hardware is constrained by many things and this is the same reason why same hardware in consoles will be leaps and bound better used than PC hardware.
 

Perkel

Banned
But that's how pies are made.

michael-jordan-laughing.gif

.

slow clap
 
UE4 demo ran on a GTX680 also right?

What other tech demos are being sported with a GTX680? Do dev simply prefer nvidia hardware over AMD?

The engines are meant for 'next gen' right.

Is there any possibility that it's all more then just a coincidence that a lot of these tech demos are shown off with very similar hardware?
 
UE4 demo ran on a GTX680 also right?

What other tech demos are being sported with a GTX680? Do dev simply prefer nvidia hardware over AMD?

The engines are meant for 'next gen' right.

Is there any possibility that it's all more then just a coincidence that a lot of these tech demos are shown off with very similar hardware?
I think it's used just because it's the fastest single GPU.
 

Perkel

Banned
UE4 demo ran on a GTX680 also right?

What other tech demos are being sported with a GTX680? Do dev simply prefer nvidia hardware over AMD?

The engines are meant for 'next gen' right.

Is there any possibility that it's all more then just a coincidence that a lot of these tech demos are shown off with very similar hardware?

I think when you take into account Image quality which is still low priority for many devs 680 won't be needed. And also we should take note that if they will go with PowerPC again CPU should be faster than most of high end CPU from intel.

For example Cell was used to offload graphic chip.

In the end it is hard to tell. In my opinion it will be very fast CPU and mid range GPU chip with decent amount of GDDR5 VRAM and big normal Ram pool.
 

nOoblet16

Member
The demo wasn't optimized much, for example they imported their offline models directly into the realtime demo and they had super detailed feet even for characters who would be wearing boots all the time..

That's because they spent one year to create one environment.

No...a lot of people believe that they spent 1 year just working on the demo but they COMPLETELY miss the fact that this time was also spent in engine R&D.
Can't blame them though considering how Kotaku titled their news.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
32GB of ram was used not only for techdemo purposes, but also because team had to work with unoptimized models and data that were created by visual works. The demo iteself does not require that much ram, and they will easily be able to port that data into nextgen consoles [well, not Wii U].


That's because they spent one year to create one environment.

No, Visual Works spent few months on creating their CGI animation. Then Luminous team just took that and tried and tried to make everything run in realtime. In one year they all created brand new engine, new tools and new production pipeline. That's damn impressive.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
UE4 demo ran on a GTX680 also right?

What other tech demos are being sported with a GTX680? Do dev simply prefer nvidia hardware over AMD?

Agni's Philosophy demo - i7, 32gb of ram, GTX680
UE4 elemental demo - i7, 16gb of ram, GTX 680
Star Wars 1313 - i7, 16 gb of ram, 3x GTX680 [but they used modified UE3 and were doing incredible stuff by porting "depth compositing" from offline workstations into realtime enviroment]
Watch Dogs - Unknown. Nothing revolutionary in that engine, just more detailed assets [clearly a game designed to be run on currentgame hardware, with HQ options for PC/Nextgen. Same as BF3].
 

Ty4on

Member
Just a reminder why "baked" is not bad therm. Baking allowed us to experience much more than we currently can reproduce in real life. Sure some of techniques are way worse than real time rendered but this allow us to make other things.

For example console GT5. It looks just staggering but almost everything is pre-baked. Smoke which looks like volumetric is still just texture based but with light correction (like backlights).

I really do love day/night cycle in any game but for some games especially linear i don't see a point in using that.

If you take a look at lightmap for baked GI:

30.jpg


you will see that this demo push large amount of polygons. GI with real time shadows would be suicide to any modern GFX card.

AO (and raytracing...) can make even the Blender box look pretty. I'm really looking forward to when lightning is so good games can look stunning without a lot of details.
 
Agni's Philosophy demo - i7, 32gb of ram, GTX680
UE4 elemental demo - i7, 16gb of ram, GTX 680
Star Wars 1313 - i7, 16 gb of ram, 3x GTX680 [but they used modified UE3 and were doing incredible stuff by porting "depth compositing" from offline workstations into realtime enviroment]
Watch Dogs - Unknown. Nothing revolutionary in that engine, just more detailed assets [clearly a game designed to be run on currentgame hardware, with HQ options for PC/Nextgen. Same as BF3].

The star wars demo must have been incredibly unoptimized.
 

Famassu

Member
I think the main question is what kind of graphical fidelity can you have in a big open world.

When all the game has to render is a dudes face and some monsters, of course it'll look great ... but what if you're riding an airship in real time in an RPG? How good will that look when you have to stream a shitload of assets without a framerate dip?
Umm... have you actually WATCHED Agni's Philosophy? It has some impressive scenery & fast-paced action in it and it has no problems running those.

The problem probably wouldn't be if the engine can handle it (if Orbis & 720 are somewhat close to the rumors), it's just a question of how good could they make the games look. You just have to wonder what kind of a budget even a somewhat open-world game with this kind of graphical quality would have.
 

jaxword

Member
I'm starting to think that a good bet is Agni's Philosophy gets incorporated somehow into FF15. Certainly generating enough buzz.
 

squidyj

Member
GI is baked it's not real time "Baked GI" in my post with screenshot on last page

ummm.... I meant this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe0RoDDzR-o

I'm pretty familiar with what's going on in it dude.

In case you need me to explain it for you it's the same researchers implementing the same concept of casting rays as bundles via rasterization with an orthographic projection except far more aggressively scaled down than what they used for baking in agni and Luminous tech.
 

Perkel

Banned
ummm.... I meant this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe0RoDDzR-o

I'm pretty familiar with what's going on in it dude.

In case you need me to explain it for you it's the same researchers implementing the same concept of casting rays as bundles via rasterization with an orthographic projection except far more aggressively scaled down than what they used for baking in agni and Luminous tech.

I thought you were talking about this tech demo where GI is baked.
 

Zarx

Member
The star wars demo must have been incredibly unoptimized.

Clearly I mean it is pre-alpha, but then again it was actual gameplay with insane realtime lighting, lots of volumetric smoke, lots of physics (probably a GPU dedicated just to PhysX stuff) etc.
 

Peterthumpa

Member
I'm not buying this. NVIDIA's New Dawn tech demo looks less impressive than Agni's Philosophy and runs like crap on a GTX 680, and that's with way less AA.
 
I hope Square Enix will go PC for next gen. I dob't mean PC only, but I'd like to see their multiplateform games going PC (Final Fantasy or Agni's Philosophy)
 

Perkel

Banned
I'm not buying this. NVIDIA's New Dawn tech demo looks less impressive than Agni's Philosophy and runs like crap on a GTX 680, and that's with way less AA.


that's because nvidia focuses mostly on effects not on final look. Most of best techdemos are hardly anything comparable to game.

This techdemo is for most of people not just for engineers.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Interesting. The engine runs on the same specs as my comp with the exception of the 32 GB of RAM. lol.
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Can next-gen run it? I'd be terribly underwhelmed if it couldn't at 720p and 30fps given the fact(?) that it apparently runs 60 fps on a 680.
 
Probably, but in a Final Fantasy 13-like game context I don't really care. Ultra linear gameplay but at least the toenails are separately modeled. UE4 seems more impressive when it comes to real-time lighting.
 
the demo wasn't locked at 60 FPS though, there were a lot of frame drops throughout the demo, especially in the scene where the magician starts to summon bahamutt.

the demo was bull shit though...it's just a cut scene. Show me something real time, with controllable characters, real time animation, collision detection, shadowing etc and then we will talk
 

Reiko

Banned
the demo wasn't locked at 60 FPS though, there were a lot of frame drops throughout the demo, especially in the scene where the magician starts to summon bahamutt.

the demo was bull shit though...it's just a cut scene. Show me something real time, with controllable characters, real time animation, collision detection, shadowing etc and then we will talk

Yep. It's more obvious when interpolated.
 

smr00

Banned
pfft

ps4/720 will be at least double that

piece of cake
I hear sony harnessed the power of a super saiyan for their "Super Core CPU" they say it's running on 136 cores and each core has it's own dedicated 2gb graphics card.

So that means we should be able to run Assassins Creed 4 at 22-28fps next gen.
 
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