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wsippel
(12-07-2012, 12:08 PM)

Originally Posted by mrklaw

what if you're not in when the postman comes, and your children answer the door? its not for them, but will the postman refuse delivery?

Yeah, he'll refuse. He'll either come again or deposit it at the post office and you have to pick it up later. You can't even ask another adult to pick it up for you.
softie
Member
(12-07-2012, 12:11 PM)
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Stupid German laws applied to whole Europe, yeah! Trust us, honestly, we do know what's best for you and your children. ;-D
acm2000
(12-07-2012, 12:12 PM)
oh well, one more item for nintendo to add to the MASSIVE list of things to fix on WiiU :P
M3d10n
Member
(12-07-2012, 12:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Castor Krieg

Let me try this right now...

EDIT: I tried to buy ZOE HD for PS3, rated USK 18. I could go all the way to the placing the order, the only new thing on the last screen was this:



Translation: Confirm here that you are over 18 and the receiver of the package.

So it is possible.

WTF, ZOE HD is rated 18? What for? Explosions?
wsippel
(12-07-2012, 12:21 PM)

Originally Posted by RagnarokX

I wonder. Do you think NoE is enforcing this because they are based in Germany and they think they know what's best for the rest of the region or is it because being based in Germany gives the German government great control over NoE's affairs?

The latter.


Originally Posted by M3d10n

WTF, ZOE HD is rated 18? What for? Explosions?

That's Konami's fault. ZoE itself is 12+, but ZoE HD includes a Metal Gear Rising demo - which is 18+.
Xater
Member
(12-07-2012, 12:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by M3d10n

I don't think Ubisoft and Activision will like this, at all. Do any online service (like youtube) do the same on Germany?

Of course not. Only Nintendo is this stupid.

Originally Posted by M3d10n

WTF, ZOE HD is rated 18? What for? Explosions?

Because of the Metal Gear Rising Demo.

Originally Posted by wrowa

Nope. eShop cards don't have any age restriction whatsoever. Since they are also widely available, your credit card argument really doesn't fly.

Then why doesn't Microsoft have this problem? it really is nothing Nintendo has to do they just chose to.
Last edited by Xater; 12-07-2012 at 12:26 PM.
M3d10n
Member
(12-07-2012, 12:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xater

Of course not. Only Nintendo is this stupid.

Stupid Nintendo.

Originally Posted by Xater

Because of the Metal Gear Rising Demo.

Stupid Konami.
-PXG-
-dry humper-
(12-07-2012, 12:28 PM)
-PXG-'s Avatar
That's really some ass backwards bullshit, lol
RagnarokX
(12-07-2012, 12:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Xater

Of course not. Only Nintendo is this stupid.

Nintendo's hands could be tied due to being based in Germany, though.
Xater
Member
(12-07-2012, 12:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by RagnarokX

Nintendo's hands could be tied due to being based in Germany, though.

That shouldn't be a factor. You have to abide by the laws if you want to release stuff here no matter where you are located. You don't get a free pass just because your HQ is not here. Nintendo is choosing to use some hardline bullshit.

It's not like Sony for example does not doing stuff that is not great. For example no demos of 18 rated titles (because they are free and could be downloaded by anyone) and some Home spaces are not able to be accessed.
Last edited by Xater; 12-07-2012 at 12:38 PM.
frankie_baby
Member
(12-07-2012, 12:46 PM)
well i assume the youtube link to the italian spiderman in the OP was supposed to be a link to my thread on the subject a few days ago in which i was hilariously ridiculed for ages with jokes about my age until the next day when people actually realised it was true

this situation is pretty stupid and nintendo need to realise that despite their european division being based in germany that germany is only a fraction of their european business and pretty out of step with the rest of europe when it comes to adult content, even if they want to follow tv broadcast restriction times ( which they have no legal requirement to do) in the uk that would be after 9pm there is no technical reason apart from maybe a few lines of code they cant restrict differently in different countries or better still just have no restrictions at all as long as people are registered as adult users of the system

i too will when i get round to it will be complaining directly to nintendo myself and hopefully others will too, i think also we could hope this issue gets picked up by gaming journalists and might also be worth getting in touch with ubisoft (and other publishers of 18 rated games) as i'm sure they wont be happy (do they even realise?) that they're titles are only available for purchase 4 hours a day in the middle of the night
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
(12-07-2012, 01:37 PM)

Originally Posted by frankie_baby

well i assume the youtube link to the italian spiderman in the OP was supposed to be a link to my thread on the subject a few days ago in which i was hilariously ridiculed for ages with jokes about my age until the next day when people actually realised it was true

this situation is pretty stupid and nintendo need to realise that despite their european division being based in germany that germany is only a fraction of their european business and pretty out of step with the rest of europe when it comes to adult content, even if they want to follow tv broadcast restriction times ( which they have no legal requirement to do) in the uk that would be after 9pm there is no technical reason apart from maybe a few lines of code they cant restrict differently in different countries or better still just have no restrictions at all as long as people are registered as adult users of the system

i too will when i get round to it will be complaining directly to nintendo myself and hopefully others will too, i think also we could hope this issue gets picked up by gaming journalists and might also be worth getting in touch with ubisoft (and other publishers of 18 rated games) as i'm sure they wont be happy (do they even realise?) that they're titles are only available for purchase 4 hours a day in the middle of the night

I am sorry for messing up the link, my apologies to everyone as I did not mean to derail things with a link to The Italian Spiderman... whoops.

I think that Nintendo could very well be completely on the safe side applying this stupid paternalistic restrictions to Germany if they feel like doing even more than it is required to them in that country, but I hardly think the German government can impose any kind of restrictions on the content sold in other EU regions.

I think it is safe to complain to Ubisoft and other publishers about this asking them to pressure Nintendo, it is also in their best interest.

Sent an -email to Ubisoft (community-ita@ubisoft.com):

Gentile Supporto Clienti Ubisoft,

Vorrei sollecitare il vostro parere in merito alla politica di accesso ai contenuti che un vostro partner, Nintendo, applica nel suo negozio online (Nintendo eShop) per la sua piattaforma Wii U in merito ad alcuni prodotti, tra cui il vostro titolo Zombie U.

Il supporto clienti Nintendo ha confermato in maniera chiara ed inequivocabile che tutti i contenuti non adatti ai minori non sono accessibili sull'eShop (non si puņ accedere alla sezione dettagli e non si puņ acquistarli) solamente tra le 23 di sera e le 3 del mattino come misura addizionale per proteggere i minori da contenuti non adatti a loro. Tale misura si applica anche agli account non riservati ai minori (che possono essere creati da un adulto so Wii U) ed anche in mancanza di restrizioni (Parental Controls). Per tale ragione, un qualsiasi vostro cliente o potentziale tale avrebbe un'esposizione molto limitata ai vostri contenuti, se si parla di contenuti non ristretti ad un pubblico minorenne.

Per riassumere la situazione, la base d'utenza a cui un prodotto come Zombie U č dedicato puņ prendere visione ed acquistare tale prodotto sull'eShop di Nintendo solamente per circa 4 ore al giorno ed ad un orario decisamente poco conveniente.

Ci terrei molto se Ubisoft facesse le debite pressioni a Nintendo per non applicare una politica restrittiva, paternalistica, e superflua che danneggia i clienti adulti e responsabili ed i suoi partner commerciali.

Cordiali Saluti,

Last edited by Panajev2001a; 12-07-2012 at 01:53 PM.
Prophane33
Member
(12-07-2012, 01:43 PM)
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Crusty jugglers.
wsippel
(12-07-2012, 01:45 PM)

Originally Posted by Xater

That shouldn't be a factor. You have to abide by the laws if you want to release stuff here no matter where you are located. You don't get a free pass just because your HQ is not here. Nintendo is choosing to use some hardline bullshit.

It's really not that simple. With digital distribution (or anything online in general), the laws of the country from which the site/ shop operates apply. For example, as a German company, I can not operate a porn site from Germany even if I lock out German IPs unless I follow German youth protection laws (many site owners don't care, which is fine until someone notices). PSN, XBLA or Steam are not based in Germany.
ScreenSplitter
Member
(12-07-2012, 01:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Prophane33

Crusty jugglers.


Knew I wasn't the only one

frankie_baby
Member
(12-07-2012, 01:50 PM)

Originally Posted by wsippel

It's really not that simple. With digital distribution (or anything online in general), the laws of the country from which the site/ shop operates apply. For example, as a German company, I can not operate a porn site from Germany even if I lock out German IPs unless I follow German youth protection laws (many site owners don't care, which is fine until someone notices). PSN, XBLA or Steam are not based in Germany.

If that is the case though then there would be nothing to stop nintendo europe transfering running the eshop to a subsiduary registered in another country which if they have any sense they should do
wsippel
(12-07-2012, 02:01 PM)

Originally Posted by frankie_baby

If that is the case though then there would be nothing to stop nintendo europe transfering running the eshop to a subsiduary registered in another country which if they have any sense they should do

That's not necessarily as trivial as it seems either. When you buy something on the eShop, you're entering a contract with NoE, and NoE is a German company. They would need to change a lot, and it probably simply isn't worth it just to resolve such a minor inconvenience.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
(12-07-2012, 02:05 PM)

Originally Posted by frankie_baby

If that is the case though then there would be nothing to stop nintendo europe transfering running the eshop to a subsiduary registered in another country which if they have any sense they should do

Originally Posted by wsippel

That's not necessarily as trivial as it seems either. When you buy something on the eShop, you're entering a contract with NoE, and NoE is a German company. They would need to change a lot, and it probably simply isn't worth it just to resolve such a minor inconvenience.

What can I say? They were misguided, to say the least, when they decided to make NOE a German company and I do not think this is a minor inconvenience to either users or their publishing partners.
Last edited by Panajev2001a; 12-07-2012 at 02:14 PM.
Haunted
(12-07-2012, 02:07 PM)
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I can look at and buy over 18 shit whenever the fuck I want everywhere except on Nintendo's eshop.

This is embarrassing. Embarrassing! Fix this shit Nintendo.


edit: I'm not against restricting access to 18+ games for kid accounts, but restricting regular accounts is stupid as fuck.
Last edited by Haunted; 12-07-2012 at 02:11 PM.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
(12-07-2012, 02:10 PM)
Reading this:

http://www.osborneclarke.com/~/media...uirements.ashx

It seems that Nintendo could have found a way to make sure parental controls and their eShop made it impossible for child accounts to view inappropriate content.
Invisible Labels section, page 2 of 3.

Time restrictions are not the only way to abide by the law, just the cheapest and quickest to implement for Nintendo hence we can safely blame us for the poor experience they provide to adult people playing with their system.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
(12-07-2012, 02:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by RagnarokX

It probably has more to do with NoE being based in Germany. Sounds like the rest of Europe needs to take a stand.

That has nothing to do with that. We don't have restrictions regarding that.
Every stupid media store in our country has USK18 movies and games right next to the movies and games with a lower rating.

Hell, most stores throw all the hentai DVDs into the regular anime section. I'm dead serious. La Blue Girl right next to Gurren Lagann.

Also I can access every 18+ content everywhere on the internet, regardless of it being amazon, ebay, the xbox live marketplace (which has more than enough 18+ content) or just regular old youporn.
I can access all these sites and all their content at any time of the day, I don't have to wait until 11pm to browse them.

Germany has age restrictions regarding movies and series's on TV though. 16+ content may only be aired after 9 or 10pm, 18+ content only after 11pm.

We have no restrictions on online activities for that, though.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
(12-07-2012, 02:13 PM)

Originally Posted by Bjoern the Smexy

That has nothing to do with that. We don't have restrictions regarding that.
Every stupid media store in our country has USK18 movies and games right next to the movies and games with a lower rating.

Hell, most stores throw all the hentai DVDs into the regular anime section. I'm dead serious. La Blue Girl right next to Gurren Lagann.

Also I can access every 18+ content everywhere on the internet, regardless of it being amazon, ebay, the xbox live marketplace (which has more than enough 18+ content) or just regular old youporn.
I can access all these sites and all their content at any time of the day, I don't have to wait until 11pm to browse them.

Germany has age restrictions regarding movies and series's on TV though. 16+ content may only be aired after 9 or 10pm, 18+ content only after 11pm.

We have no restrictions on online activities for that, though.

What some people are saying is that such restrictions might apply to German companies operating their online store worldwide. Still, reading some resources on the matter, it seems that what Nintendo implemented was not the only thing they could do, but just the cheapest and quickest for them to implement.
fabricated backlash
Member
(12-07-2012, 02:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by RagnarokX

Nintendo's hands could be tied due to being based in Germany, though.

No, German youth protection laws are retarded, but Nintendo really goes the extra mile to make everything worse.
frankie_baby
Member
(12-07-2012, 02:19 PM)

Originally Posted by wsippel

That's not necessarily as trivial as it seems either. When you buy something on the eShop, you're entering a contract with NoE, and NoE is a German company. They would need to change a lot, and it probably simply isn't worth it just to resolve such a minor inconvenience.

it may seem like a minor inconvenience now but as the eshop grows both in content and use that inconvenience will only get bigger and bigger, it really wouldn't take that much effort to transfer the eshop to say nintendo uk and customers would then be entering a contract with them
Haunted
(12-07-2012, 02:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by sakipon

So globalization means we all have to live according the laws of the strictest country? Nice.

That's exactly the way it shouldn't work.

It's like establishing a US-wide standard that conforms to some weird ass-backwards Alabama law.


That Nintendo is willing to compromise their user's experience to comply by going the safest, cheapest, laziest route that's most inconvenient to their users when every other company operating on the internet does it better and prioritises the user over any weird restrictions is just ridiculous.

Incompetent conservative fuckwits need to get out of their fucking bubble and deal with the real world here. Look how the competition does it. Try to do it as well or better. Not worse.
Haunted
(12-07-2012, 02:36 PM)
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Making me jump through hoops - with an age gate or cc info or ID - to view content is bad enough, but still acceptable - if it helps protect kids online (I'm not convinced it does), sure, whatever, I play ball. But making it flat-out impossible to view and peruse this regardless of age is preposterous. It's crossing the line from youth protection making something inconvenient for adults to making it unusable. It's simply not acceptable, it just isn't.

Not that I even want to browse the fucking eshop with its shit prices, it's about the principle of the thing.

Can we get some European journalists on the ball for this? Seems like something they could pounce on. I honestly thought this was a glitch, something to be patched, functionality intended for a kid account accidentally affecting everyone. Fucking Nintendo, man.
Last edited by Haunted; 12-07-2012 at 02:39 PM.
wsippel
(12-07-2012, 02:42 PM)

Originally Posted by Bjoern the Smexy

Also I can access every 18+ content everywhere on the internet, regardless of it being amazon, ebay, the xbox live marketplace (which has more than enough 18+ content) or just regular old youporn.
I can access all these sites and all their content at any time of the day, I don't have to wait until 11pm to browse them.

Germany has age restrictions regarding movies and series's on TV though. 16+ content may only be aired after 9 or 10pm, 18+ content only after 11pm.

We have no restrictions on online activities for that, though.

Right, we have no legally binding restrictions on online activities - yet. Which makes it a gray area. Yes, you can browse and buy 18+ games on Amazon 24 hours a day, but you need to verify your age with the courier on delivery. That obviously isn't possible for digital distribution. You can still browse 18+ games on the eShop 24 hours a day, but you can't buy them until 11pm. Nintendo uses laws meant for TV stations as a replacement for PostIdent. That might still get them into trouble, but gives them a certain level of legal safety until proper laws are in place.

There simply is no accepted age verification for online transactions in Germany. Credit cards and even passport numbers are not sufficient. Companies tried, didn't fly when challenged in court. The only legally accepted way is to verify an account in person, via PostIdent for example. That's what porn sites do. What Nintendo could do is to issue BSI certified, NFC enabled smart cards and PINs for users wishing to access 18+ content and send those out, with PostIdent. That obviously wouldn't be free or very convenient, of course.


Originally Posted by Haunted

That Nintendo is willing to compromise their user's experience to comply by going the safest, cheapest, laziest route that's most inconvenient to their users when every other company operating on the internet does it better and prioritises the user over any weird restrictions is just ridiculous.

Every other company isn't in Germany. Also, the safest route would be no 18+ content at all (the way it used to be on PSN and still is on 3DS eShop), the most inconvenient route would be verified accounts.
Last edited by wsippel; 12-07-2012 at 02:56 PM.
fabricated backlash
Member
(12-07-2012, 02:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Haunted

That's exactly the way it shouldn't work.

It's like establishing a US-wide standard that conforms to some weird ass-backwards Alabama law.


That Nintendo is willing to compromise their user's experience to comply by going the safest, cheapest, laziest route that's most inconvenient to their users when every other company operating on the internet does it better and prioritises the user over any weird restrictions is just ridiculous.

Incompetent conservative fuckwits need to get out of their fucking bubble and deal with the real world here. Look how the competition does it. Try to do it as well or better. Not worse.

For that exact reason I really think it's time that consumers take a stand. Stop bitching about stuff on Message boards, and take action. Write to every customer support that is involved in this. Write to Ubisoft, and tell them that having 4 hours a night to view their games is unfair to them as a company and insulting to consumers.
This also means taking a stand against Nintendos DRM nightmare that is WiiU accounts.
fabricated backlash
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(12-07-2012, 02:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

Right, we have no legally binding restrictions on online activities - yet. Which makes it a gray area. Yes, you can browse and buy 18+ games on Amazon 24 hours a day, but you need to verify your age with the courier on delivery. That obviously isn't possible for digital distribution. You can still browse 18+ games on the eShop 24 hours a day, but you can't buy them until 11pm. Nintendo uses laws meant for TV stations as a replacement for PostIdent. That might still get them into trouble, but gives them a certain level of legal safety until proper laws are in place.

There simply is no accepted age verification for online transactions in Germany. The only legally accepted way is to verify an account in person, via PostIdent for example. What Nintendo could do is to issue BSI certified, NFC enabled smart cards and PINs for users wishing to access 18+ content and send those out, with PostIdent. That obviously wouldn't be free or very convenient, of course.

Or you know, make it plain and obvious that parents are responsible for the entertainment consumption of their kids. Germany really doesn't need more nanny state regulations, nor do consumer have to go through hoops because Nintendo is paranoid and wants to play big brother.
wsippel
(12-07-2012, 02:50 PM)

Originally Posted by fabricated backlash

Or you know, make it plain and obvious that parents are responsible for the entertainment consumption of their kids. Germany really doesn't need more nanny state regulations, nor do consumer have to go through hoops because Nintendo is paranoid and wants to play big brother.

Yeah, fuck the law!

Nintendo isn't paranoid and doesn't want to play big brother, they simply have better things to do than sit in court all day. Though looking at their release list, maybe not.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
(12-07-2012, 02:55 PM)

Originally Posted by wsippel

Every other company isn't in Germany. Also, the safest route would be no 18+ content at all (the way it used to be on PSN and still is on 3DS eShop), the most inconvenient route would be verified accounts.

The doctor did not order Nintendo to place NOE in Germany or not to get ready in time when they started thinking about online transactions. Also, I do not think that there are no other ways this could be dealt with.

Still, consumer unfriendly restricted laws aside, Nintendo deserves to be blamed here. They could have prepared things in time, prepared the shell company dealing with the eShop in PAL land early enough to be ready for Wii U's launch, etc... They chose not to, because they cared more about doing the bare minimum or because they are not as competent in the online area enough as they should be as a corporation. Such restriction does not play too nice with their publishing partners either.
Last edited by Panajev2001a; 12-07-2012 at 03:00 PM.
Bony Manifesto
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(12-07-2012, 02:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

Yeah, fuck the law!

Nintendo isn't paranoid and doesn't want to play big brother, they simply have better things to do than sit in court all day. Though looking at their release list, maybe not.

But you just said yourself there's no legal requirement for this in Germany, and Nintendo are just playing it safe. But even if it was the law in Germany, why does the rest of Europe have to suffer under these same rules?
wsippel
(12-07-2012, 03:01 PM)

Originally Posted by Panajev2001a

The doctor did not order Nintendo to place NOE in Germany or not to get ready in time when they started thinking about online transactions. Also, I do not think that there are no other ways this could be dealt with.

Still, consumer unfriendly restricted laws aside it is that Nintendo is mainly to blame here. They could have prepared things in time, prepared the shell company dealing with the eShop in PAL land early enough to be ready for Wii U's launch, etc... They chose not to, because they cared more about doing the bare minimum or because they are not as competent in the online area enough as a corporation and such restriction does not play too nice with their publishing partners either.

Well, NoE was established a long time ago - long before there were binding age restrictions, let alone digital distribution. And yes, there are other ways. Three, to be exact. One is all around worse (no 18+ content on the eShop at all), one is more inconvenient (verified accounts), and one is too much effort to be worth it at this point (moving eShop operations to a different subsidiary).
Ushojax
Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
(12-07-2012, 03:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bony Manifesto

But you just said yourself there's no legal requirement for this in Germany, and Nintendo are just playing it safe. But even if it was the law in Germany, why does the rest of Europe have to suffer under these same rules?

This is Nintendo of Europe we are talking about. They are legendarily incompetent and a few recent localisations doesn't make up for 25 years of stupid shit. I'm sure at some point they will flick a switch and limit this policy to Germany, when that will be, who knows. Probably when they get around to releasing WarioWare Twisted.
Xater
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(12-07-2012, 03:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ushojax

This is Nintendo of Europe we are talking about. They are legendarily incompetent and a few recent localisations doesn't make up for 25 years of stupid shit. I'm sure at some point they will flick a switch and limit this policy to Germany.

And then I'd still be pissed because I have to live with it while none of it is an issue on other consoles.

Anyway it now is a Eurogamer story and they contacted Nintendo: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-certain-times
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
(12-07-2012, 03:07 PM)

Originally Posted by wsippel

Well, NoE was established a long time ago - long before there were binding age restrictions, let alone digital distribution. And yes, there are other ways. Three, to be exact. One is all around worse (no 18+ content on the eShop at all), one is more inconvenient (verified accounts), and one is too much effort to be worth it at this point (moving eShop operations to a different subsidiary).

That section related to Invisible Labels in the PDF I linked suggested a different approach could be possible.

Also, it is not my fault if they did not keep themselves up to date with the evolving market and failed to get things ready on time. They had more than enough years since Xbox 360 launched to get their paperwork done, their structure altered, and their online approach realized in a more sensible way.
The verified accounts way is a one time more inconvenient step, not something that should place a sizable burden on you every single time.

It is completely Nintendo's fault that the eShop is solely linked with NOE in PAL territories right now. They had years to prepare and get things done well. At this point we are making excuses for them.

I is not like this was uncharted waters for everyone and Nintendo decided to pave the way for the rest of the industry. It is a case of a corporation ignoring what just about everyone else had already realized in the online space and doing things with the least effort on their part as possible.
Zornica
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(12-07-2012, 03:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by M3d10n

I don't think Ubisoft and Activision will like this, at all. Do any online service (like youtube) do the same on Germany?

yes, if they are based in germany, they will shut down certain streams. I've encountered it a few times.

Originally Posted by Xater

Of course not. Only Nintendo is this stupid.

Then why doesn't Microsoft have this problem? it really is nothing Nintendo has to do they just chose to.

you are wrong.
microsofts online services aren't even based in europe as far as I can tell.
AndyMoogle
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(12-07-2012, 03:11 PM)
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I'm in Sweden and I also get that lovely message.

"You cannot view this content. The times during which this content can be viewed have been restricted."
wrowa
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(12-07-2012, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ushojax

This is Nintendo of Europe we are talking about. They are legendarily incompetent and a few recent localisations doesn't make up for 25 years of stupid shit. I'm sure at some point they will flick a switch and limit this policy to Germany, when that will be, who knows. Probably when they get around to releasing WarioWare Twisted.

Now, there really was not much they could have done about that. Kinda hard to avoid EU law.

We might see it if Nintendo should ever start releasing GBA games on a Virtual Console service. So... probably around never.
wsippel
(12-07-2012, 03:12 PM)

Originally Posted by Bony Manifesto

But you just said yourself there's no legal requirement for this in Germany, and Nintendo are just playing it safe. But even if it was the law in Germany, why does the rest of Europe have to suffer under these same rules?

Because legally, it's not important where the customer is, the laws of the country where the store is apply.

And again, yes, there are no legal requirements for this specific case yet. Which means there is no safety at all. The fact that it's not explicitly forbidden doesn't mean a company can't get sued. It happened many, many times, and the companies always lost. There are two legal ways to distribute 18+ content: Age verification in person (applicable to stores, online shops, movie theatres and such) or no distribution until after 11pm (applicable to TV stations). It's either one or the other, it simply isn't clear which one applies to digital distribution yet. Nintendo went with the less safe, arguably more convenient approach.
Last edited by wsippel; 12-07-2012 at 03:14 PM.
Ushojax
Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
(12-07-2012, 03:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by wrowa

Now, there really was not much they could have done about that. Kinda hard to avoid EU law.

If that mercury thing was true, I suppose. Drill Dozer however...
MushroomSamba
Member
(12-07-2012, 03:18 PM)
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For the Greater Good.
Xater
Member
(12-07-2012, 03:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zornica

you are wrong.
microsofts online services aren't even based in europe as far as I can tell.

My point was about the content delivery and not the location of the company.
SpacePirate Ridley
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(12-07-2012, 03:22 PM)
SpacePirate Ridley's Avatar
We need NoE heardquaters in France in this istant! France loves Nintendo and Germany had idiotic laws, and im not even in France but Spain isnt a good country to put headquaters right now lol

But of course, Nintendo is veen more idiotic to follow them in the cheapest way.

This thing needs to change ASAP! They need to tie the e-shop to parental controls, seriously, this is just going to fuck with adults in an absurd way.
Its even possible NoJ doesnt even know about this hourly decission. Shibata, you fucked up.
Haunted
(12-07-2012, 03:24 PM)
Haunted's Avatar

Originally Posted by Xater

Anyway it now is a Eurogamer story and they contacted Nintendo: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-certain-times

Good on Eurogamer. Good, at least someone is doing their job here.


Originally Posted by wsippel

Every other company isn't in Germany. Also, the safest route would be no 18+ content at all (the way it used to be on PSN and still is on 3DS eShop), the most inconvenient route would be verified accounts.



It's their responsibility to offer an experience that's on par with the competition. If they don't, I give them shit for it.

edit: there was a time where there was no 18+ content on PSN? That's crazy.
Last edited by Haunted; 12-07-2012 at 03:29 PM.
wsippel
(12-07-2012, 03:26 PM)

Originally Posted by Panajev2001a

That section related to Invisible Labels in the PDF I linked suggested a different approach could be possible.

The 2010 JMStV never passed, so the information in the PDF is invalid. The old, 2003 JMStV is still in effect.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
(12-07-2012, 03:30 PM)

Originally Posted by wsippel

The 2010 JMStV never passed, so the information in the PDF is invalid. The old, 2003 JMStV is still in effect.

Ok, thanks for the correction.

My complaints about Nintendo stand. They had way more than enough time and resources to get things ready properly and on time.
frankie_baby
Member
(12-07-2012, 03:30 PM)

Originally Posted by wsippel

Right, we have no legally binding restrictions on online activities - yet. Which makes it a gray area. Yes, you can browse and buy 18+ games on Amazon 24 hours a day, but you need to verify your age with the courier on delivery. That obviously isn't possible for digital distribution. You can still browse 18+ games on the eShop 24 hours a day, but you can't buy them until 11pm. Nintendo uses laws meant for TV stations as a replacement for PostIdent. That might still get them into trouble, but gives them a certain level of legal safety until proper laws are in place.

There simply is no accepted age verification for online transactions in Germany. Credit cards and even passport numbers are not sufficient. Companies tried, didn't fly when challenged in court. The only legally accepted way is to verify an account in person, via PostIdent for example. That's what porn sites do. What Nintendo could do is to issue BSI certified, NFC enabled smart cards and PINs for users wishing to access 18+ content and send those out, with PostIdent. That obviously wouldn't be free or very convenient, of course.



Every other company isn't in Germany. Also, the safest route would be no 18+ content at all (the way it used to be on PSN and still is on 3DS eShop), the most inconvenient route would be verified accounts.

There may not be 18 rated games on the 3ds eshop yet but there is 18 rated videos (I first noticed the problem with that several weeks ago) some Nintendo direct and Nintendo TV episodes and can't watch them before 11 either
Bony Manifesto
Member
(12-07-2012, 03:30 PM)
Bony Manifesto's Avatar

Originally Posted by wsippel

Because legally, it's not important where the customer is, the laws of the country where the store is apply.

So it's just a good, old-fashioned bone-headed Nintendo move to set up their content-distribution headquarters in one of the most highly-regulated, censorship-happy countries in the EU? Okay, so they fucked up, but why have they not already rectified this fuck-up by moving the payment-handling (or whichever part of the business causes everything to be under German jurisdiction) to a more liberal country?
Nils
Member
(12-07-2012, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by wsippel

You don't even want to know how hard it is to order games rated 18+ on the Internet if you live in Germany. Just be happy that they follow TV regulations, not online shopping regulations.

Interesting. Can you elaborate on this?

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