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NOE: eShop age restrictions for the greater good (Applies to all of Europe)

snap0212

Member
No. There is a German institution called "Kommission fuer Jugendmedienschutz" (KJM) which dictates acceptable controls. Nothing any console manufacturer does in that regard is today enough for the KJM, but some German websites like GamersGlobal.de use KJM-approved controls.
The problem is that these controls are nearly excluding anyone who doesn't have a German passport or something they call "Personalausweis". At least very often there are no other possibilites to access content there. You only can and have to prove your age by providing information through such documents. Yet interpretations vary: Sony for example seems to think that they are allowed to sell age-restricted stuff on their German PSN store when somebody has paid for it. Hence they give away some demos only to PlayStation-Plus-subscribers.
The German adult industry is using paid services, and so forth. These services are supposing youth protection but are indeed in need of heavy fees on a monthly basis, blocking content that would otherwise be free.

Nintendo of Europe should really move away from Grossostheim, and out of Germany.
In that regard things can only get worse - Electronic Arts is already working together with the KJM or mainstream lawyers on several projects because the German video game industry is far from criticizing this situation around youth protection (Jugendschutz) in Germany. Most of their representatives are applauding those laws. Like the adult industry, they may also see a business opportunity there. These are dangerous conditions any liberal-minded European should be aware of while most Germans are accepting the conceptions of "Jugendschutz" by the state for historical reasons without questioning them one bit.
Nintendo's actions today could only be the start of something that is getting far worse next-gen. This could easily be the beginning of the end for free gaming in Europe. Anyone should be aware of the threat German youth protection is to European gaming. And if not today, then tomorrow -
Literally, the only problem is that there’s no simple, easy and fast solution to prove your age on the internet. That’s where work has to be done and it’s being done already, just not fast enough.

I’m also pissed that I cannot download all the Demos from the German PSN but I’m also able to understand that it’s the best solution we have in terms of protection of the youth. These rules exist, like I mentioned, in every country I’ve ever been to in my life. You’ll have to show identification everywhere in order to do/get things that are not allowed to be done/had under a certain age. Why should I not show any identification when buying stuff online when I have to do so when I buy the same content in a store?

You have to prove your age literally everywhere. Sometimes, it’s possible to make assumptions about your age (is here by car, must be 18, for example) but sometimes it isn’t. All that has to be improved is the way to prove your age online.
 

Pyri

Neo Member
Literally, the only problem is that there’s no simple, easy and fast solution to prove your age on the internet. That’s where work has to be done and it’s being done already, just not fast enough.

I’m also pissed that I cannot download all the Demos from the German PSN but I’m also able to understand that it’s the best solution we have in terms of protection of the youth. These rules exist, like I mentioned, in every country I’ve ever been to in my life. You’ll have to show identification everywhere in order to do/get things that are not allowed to be done/had under a certain age. Why should I not show any identification when buying stuff online when I have to do so when I buy the same content in a store?

You have to prove your age literally everywhere. Sometimes, it’s possible to make assumptions about your age (is here by car, must be 18, for example) but sometimes it isn’t. ...

What does being "able" to "understand" this even mean?
I don't know these other countries and I doubt they exist. Are you really talking about the European Union or other western markets?
In my country there is no duty to identify oneself.

I never ever had to identify myself in any country when I physically wanted to read an article. Even not in Germany for that matter, when I was really there. Yet when I want to read texts on "GamersGlobal" for example.
Online, there may be questions regarding ones age, but they are not attached to a certain real person.
Whether I want to watch a video, read an article or buy things in shops. Outside of German jurisdiction. The only time I have to identify myself is when I'm selling stuff in retail stores, not because my adulthood would be in question but to confirm the ownership of the product I want to sell.

I criticise "protection of the youth". Why not? I don't think "the youth" even exists. When it comes to people, there are just individuals in this world. And I don't think that the state should regulate this kind of media like sex oder alcohol.
Films or video games are not pornography. In some films or video games even children are featured. They take parts in acting roles and so forth.
When I was a kid, my mother once rented by mistake the movie "Gremlins" by Joe Dante. While watching the film, both my mother and myself as a child were terrified by its content. Yet according to German law only my mother would have violated myself by not preventing me from certain images. What logic is that? Even Germany has to accept that people are different in this world.

Update: even Germany knows certain rights parents have, the so-called "Elternprivileg", which means even there parents in real life can decide to a certain extent which games their children are allowed to play, and not the state they happen to live in. And no KJM can interfere with that. At least not up until now...
 

snap0212

Member
What does being "able" to "understand" this even mean?
I don't know these other countries and I doubt they exist. Are you really talking about the European Union or other western markets?
In my country there is no duty to identify oneself.

I never ever had to identify myself in any country when I physically wanted to read an article. Even not in Germany for that matter, when I was really there. Yet when I want to read texts on "GamersGlobal" for example.
Online, there may be questions regarding ones age, but they are not attached to a certain real person.
Whether I want to watch a video, read an article or buy things in shops. Outside of German jurisdiction. The only time I have to identify myself is when I'm selling stuff in retail stores, not because my adulthood would be in question but to confirm the ownership of the product I want to sell.
So where you live, a kid can buy a bottle of vodka because there’s no need for any kind of identification? Or porn, for example? I doubt that.

Aside from that, texts have no ratings on them so your argument doesn’t work. It’s about pictures and videos advertising. Not sure where it’s where you are but can any child just go into a store and buy porn and/or is there no restriction at all? Because that’s the analogy you should be making as there are no ratings on text/books in Germany. I’ve not been to a lot of video stores in other countries but I don’t remember seeing dvd cases of real hardcore pornography.

I criticise "protection of the youth". Why not? I don't think "the youth" even exists. When it comes to people, there are just individuals in this world. And I don't think that the state should regulate this kind of media like sex oder alcohol.
Film oder video games are not pornography. In some films or video games even children are featured. They take parts in acting roles and so forth.
Of course, the youth consists of a bunch of individuals but you have to get them all under one umbrella to make laws and regulations. To get them all under one umbrella, we look at their age. Children are people under the age of 14 (age of consent), youth is everyone 14-17. 18/21 is an adult. That’s how the German law defines the youth.

There are a lot of rules regarding child actors as well. They all involve parents being there, enough breaks and just because they were featured in movies doesn’t mean they’ll watch the movies later on. What the children see during filming a movie has very little to do with what you see in the finished film later on.

Lastly, why should there be regulations on sex and not on violence? Why should a child be able to see a head being cut off but not someone getting a blowjob?

When I was a kid, my mother once rented by mistake the movie "Gremlins" by Joe Dante. While watching the film, both my mother and myself as a child were terrified by its content. Yet according to German law only my mother would have violated myself by not preventing me from certain images. What logic is that? Even Germany has to accept that people are different in this world.
Yes, it’s your mother’s responsibility to make sure you don’t see certain content / do certain things. It’s like that everywhere in life. It’s your mother’s responsibility to make sure you get enough food, to treat you well and so on. It’s her responsibility to not serve you whisky as well. Aside from that, Gremlins is rated FSK 12 in Germany so it’s not a problem if she takes you to see that movie (Elternprivileg).

edit: And in that case, no one would consider it violation of the child if it was a mistake. Not even if it's an 18 rated movie, porn or anything.
 

snap0212

Member
I just don’t see anything wrong with preventing children (and minors) from seeing and accessing certain kinds of content. I don’t think it’s wrong to restrict them when talking about XXX content and I don’t think it’s wrong to restrict them when talking about violent content. Children need some form of protection and from working with children in the past, I have noticed that parents don’t do a very good job at this.

The only problem is when adults cannot see or access that content because it’s assumed that they’re children and there’s no way for them to prove otherwise. Again: Assuming that you’re not old enough to get access to certain things is something that’s the standard everywhere. You have to show some kind of identification when signing a binding contract, when buying alcohol, when going to a prostitute, when going into a club or any other thing in real life. The only problem is that showing your ID is not possible online - at least not yet.

That’s what the discussion has to be about: “How can we find a way to prove that we’re adults?”. In Germany, PSN Store cards are rated 18+ so Sony can assume that people who have money in their PSN accounts are 18+ because they’d have to be in order to purchase said credit. The same could be done for Nintendo, I guess, but it’s not an optimal solution. The perfect solution would be to contact someone at Nintendo so they enable your Account for 16+ rated content. How would one do that, though? Work has to be done here to enable adults to prove that they’re actually adults and not children that need the additional protection.

edit: Sorry, should have been an edit and not a new post.
 

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I was just thinking that this could be a huge problem for DLC of stuff like AC III. :/

I'm hoping they'll get round it by have an in-game online DLC store. You know, the way NSMB2 handles it on the 3DS. That way, everyone buying the DLC already has the game so must be an adult.
 

Pyri

Neo Member
So where you live, a kid can buy a bottle of vodka because there’s no need for any kind of identification? Or porn, for example? I doubt that.

Read what I wrote:

... And I don't think that the state should regulate this kind of media like sex oder alcohol.
Films or video games are not pornography. ...

And I argued with a certain example:

Aside from that, texts have no ratings on them so your argument doesn’t work. ...

My example was the "GamersGlobal" website. There are two reviews of "God of War III" there, still easily to differentiate by the "3" and "iii" at the end of their respective addresses. No, the state is not demanding this but it's still reality like other forms of self-censorship. It's as simple as that.

It's true that plain text is not regulated in Germany like images, (moving) pictures, but it's also known that it's still difficult to even name certain games by their real title if they are prohibited under the "Liste fuer jugendgefaehrdende Medien" or prosecuted by criminal law because that is considered to be advertisment for those games. Maybe not in mainstream media but at least in gaming magazines.

And there is at least no other western country where video games are criminally prosecuted like in Germany. This is not deniable. Refusing classification is just not the same as prosecution under criminal code.
 

Scum

Junior Member
That’s what the discussion has to be about: “How can we find a way to prove that we’re adults?”. In Germany, PSN Store cards are rated 18+ so Sony can assume that people who have money in their PSN accounts are 18+ because they’d have to be in order to purchase said credit. The same could be done for Nintendo, I guess, but it’s not an optimal solution. The perfect solution would be to contact someone at Nintendo so they enable your Account for 16+ rated content. How would one do that, though? Work has to be done here to enable adults to prove that they’re actually adults and not children that need the additional protection.

edit: Sorry, should have been an edit and not a new post.

I quite love this idea from wsippel to be honest.

I think the best thing Nintendo could do would be to issue NFC enabled smartcards and sell those at stores, rated 18+. You get home, tie the card to your account, and get a nice physical authorization token for the Nintendo Network. To buy 18+ stuff, just log on with your card. Nintendo would even make a few bucks from every card sold.
I think it'll work great.
 

jimi_dini

Member
My example was the "GamersGlobal" website. There are two reviews of "God of War III" there, still easily to differentiate by the "3" and "iii" at the end of their respective addresses.

https://www.gamersglobal.de/user

Funny

Dieser Inhalt unterliegt dem GamersGlobal-Jugendschutz-Filter: Nach geltendem Gesetz sind Spiele mit USK-18-Alterseinstufung nicht für Jugendliche in Deutschland geeignet. Solche Inhalte dürfen nur

a) zwischen 23:00 Uhr und 6:00 Uhr zu sehen sein

oder

b) für registrierte User sichtbar sein, deren nachgewiesenes Alter hoch genug ist.

This time it's 23:00 - 6:00

I think it'll work great.

Such thing wouldn't be accepted by German government.

hICJG.jpg
 

snap0212

Member
Read what I wrote:
Some things are supposed to be not available to people under a certain age. If you want to access them, you’ll have to prove your age. Everywhere in the western world.. In the US, where I assume you’re from, as well. Tabacoo, alcohol, porn, whatever.

Aside from that, it’s pretty surprising that you consider XXX content to be worth regulating but not violent content. Why would that be?

My example was the "GamersGlobal" website. There are two reviews of "God of War III" there, still easily to differentiate by the "3" and "iii" at the end of their respective addresses. No, the state is not demanding this but it's still reality like other forms of self-censorship. It's as simple as that.
You talked about how the state shouldn’t regulate and then when I tell you that the state actually doesn’t regulate what you mentioned as an example, you resort to saying “Well, it’s self-censorship. You were against regulations by the state. There are none. End of story.

It's true that plain text is not regulated in Germany like images, (moving) pictures, but it's also known that it's still difficult to even name certain games by their real title if they are prohibited under the "Liste fuer jugendgefaehrdende Medien" or prosecuted by criminal law because that is considered to be advertisment for those games. Maybe not in mainstream media but at least in gaming magazines. And there is at least no other western country where video games are criminally prosecuted like in Germany. This is not deniable. Refusing classification is just not the same as prosecution under criminal code.
I have absolutely no idea how that is even remotely related to the topic on hand? Care to clarify?

We’re talking about distribution and advertisements here. Some games in Germany, very, very, very few must not be sold at all. Usually, when we hear about games being banned in Germany and so on, they’re not being banned but their advertisement and distribution is restricted to adults. Usually not a problem if you’re 18 either.

And there is at least no other western country where video games are criminally prosecuted like in Germany.
Every country bans video games when they show content that is deemed against the law. A US judge banned The Guy Game from store shelves because a 17-year old appeared topless. Germany has different laws regarding violent content usually and they’re questionable. What’s not up for question is that it’s not true that Germany is the only country that bans certain actions (usually reselling) regarding video games.
https://www.gamersglobal.de/user

Funny

This time it's 23:00 - 6:00

Such thing wouldn't be accepted by German government.

QUOTE]Yeah, that's a ridiculously shitty solution. How someone can think that's a good idea is beyond me.
 
I just don’t see anything wrong with preventing children (and minors) from seeing and accessing certain kinds of content. I don’t think it’s wrong to restrict them when talking about XXX content and I don’t think it’s wrong to restrict them when talking about violent content. Children need some form of protection and from working with children in the past, I have noticed that parents don’t do a very good job at this.

The only problem is when adults cannot see or access that content because it’s assumed that they’re children and there’s no way for them to prove otherwise. Again: Assuming that you’re not old enough to get access to certain things is something that’s the standard everywhere. You have to show some kind of identification when signing a binding contract, when buying alcohol, when going to a prostitute, when going into a club or any other thing in real life. The only problem is that showing your ID is not possible online - at least not yet.

That’s what the discussion has to be about: “How can we find a way to prove that we’re adults?”. In Germany, PSN Store cards are rated 18+ so Sony can assume that people who have money in their PSN accounts are 18+ because they’d have to be in order to purchase said credit. The same could be done for Nintendo, I guess, but it’s not an optimal solution. The perfect solution would be to contact someone at Nintendo so they enable your Account for 16+ rated content. How would one do that, though? Work has to be done here to enable adults to prove that they’re actually adults and not children that need the additional protection.

edit: Sorry, should have been an edit and not a new post.

You make great points but what you're saying is until they get these things sorted out everyone is treated as a minor. That to me is an unacceptable solution. Especially to think teenagers don't stay up late so they won't be able to download between 11pm-3am. Why not just ask for ID at the retail end when buying the system? Then you get a special code from the clerk that authorizes you are an adult?

Consumers are savvy enough to bend the rules but it's not a viable option to make everyone have to go through hoops that shouldn't have to. The system is already flawed by having an opening window between the hours of 11-3, so why make it even more flawed by not allowing even adults who may have to work early to get access anytime they want? This just shows how the Wii U is already behind the curve ball if it can't even have automatic downloads while the system is in sleep mode.

I think a credit card should be sufficient enough, along with agreeing to the terms, upon signing up. Have a master account and then have sub-accounts for those who you want to restrict access.
 

snap0212

Member
You make great points but what you're saying is until they get these things sorted out everyone is treated as a minor. That to me is an unacceptable solution. Especially to think teenagers don't stay up late so they won't be able to download between 11pm-3am. Why not just ask for ID at the retail end when buying the system? Then you get a special code from the clerk that authorizes you are an adult?
The current solution is a shitty one, of course. However, what I’ve been trying to say again and again is that not the laws are the problem, not the fact that they’re trying to prevent minors from seeing certain content, but the fact that adults cannot prove their age.

Consumers are savvy enough to bend the rules but it's not a viable option to make everyone have to go through hoops that shouldn't have to. The system is already flawed by having an opening window between the hours of 11-3, so why make it even more flawed by not allowing even adults who may have to work early to get access anytime they want? This just shows how the Wii U is already behind the curve ball if it can't even have automatic downloads while the system is in sleep mode.
Ideally, you could call Nintendo and hand them your Personalausweis-Nummer (ID-Number) and they change your account to “adult”. Or getting a free card at a gas station or anything. Didn’t we get a government issued email address a while ago too? They could make an extra field for that one assuming we actually have such a thing and that it’s only there for adults.

Anything would be better than having restrictions because they assume you're minor while also not giving you the option to prove otherwise. That's stupid but it's a failure on Nintendo's side of things.
 

Pyri

Neo Member
This time it's 23:00 - 6:00

This is the official time for 18+ content which is considered to be just "jugendbeeintraechtigend". Only such content even gets an "18"-labeling in Germany
Other 18+ content is considered to be "jugendgefaehrdend" and is not allowed to be shown in public at all, which means even not at night times...

Nintendo could get further just because theoretically there is another time mentioned in the "Jugendmedienschutz-Staatsvertrag" regarding 16+ content. This content could only be shown in public at times starting at 22:00 There are also several 3DS games rated 16+
So the eShop regulation could get expanded to the 3DS too.

... Gremlins is rated FSK 12 in Germany so it’s not a problem if she takes you to see that movie (Elternprivileg).

Once more I just checked this again. Even though it's likely that the movie will one day be uncut rated "FSK 12" and in the FSK database there is already one version with this rating, the labeling I still meant was "FSK 16". In spite of the possibility that this rating may be just historical anymore, like the one from my childhood. Wikipedia.de also speaks about FSK-16. If FSK-12 is nowadays already true then one should really change that, and there are at all four (!) comparisons with television screenings to this "FSK 16"-version shown here http://www.schnittberichte.com/svds.php?Page=Titel&ID=729
Therefore this is disinformation.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I was laughing at Nintendo of America for making people pay 50c for minor accounts. But now the joke is on us :(

Just charge my frigging card 50p to validate me as a parent and my kids' accounts, and then leave me alone
 
I was laughing at Nintendo of America for making people pay 50c for minor accounts. But now the joke is on us :(

Just charge my frigging card 50p to validate me as a parent and my kids' accounts, and then leave me alone

Unfortunately it seems credit card verification isn't acceptable for ze germans
 

snap0212

Member
Unfortunately it seems credit card verification isn't acceptable for ze germans
No one here uses credit cards. I only have one for my gaming stuff but I've not once used it for anything else (paying for something in a store, gas station, amazon or anything). I use it to import PSN cards and games. :(
 

Pyri

Neo Member
You talked about how the state shouldn’t regulate and then when I tell you that the state actually doesn’t regulate what you mentioned as an example, you resort to saying “Well, it’s self-censorship. You were against regulations by the state. There are none. End of story.

I have absolutely no idea how that is even remotely related to the topic on hand? Care to clarify?

You write that any country bans stuff and then there are no regulations at all?
Sorry but this is a clear contradiction or by "regulation" we mean different things. When I say "regulation" I already mean any form of labeling and I've never spoken against that. I'm not against ratings, labeling or prohibiting games to minors, but forcing adults to identify themselves personally. And yes, I think no two 14-year-olds are the same. The "violence" of "Gremlins" was once FSK-16 and is now perhaps FSK-12. Liquor doesn't change that much, likewise the depictions of fellatio you mentioned before. To me, this is a form of testification and therefore criminalization. I just don't consider games like porn or whiskey. I already spoke about that.
In the US the ESRB is also regulating the market but their regulations are not like the ones in Germany where the "Oberste Landesjugendbehoerden" are actually labeling the games and movies, and actually not FSK/USK.
"The Guy Game" is perhaps the worst example for that because "The Guy Game" today is considered to be some sort of child pornography under US laws. And regarding self-censorship: what is self-censorship then, and why is self-censorship happening, anywhere in the world. Under what impression?
Yes, you wrote:

Aside from that, texts have no ratings on them so your argument doesn’t work. ...

And:

Ideally, you could call Nintendo and hand them your Personalausweis-Nummer (ID-Number) ...

As I already wrote: a "Personalausweis" is at least no necessity in other countries. And by the way... Why this should be "ideal" is totally beyond me -
I really don't understand why people are so eager to defend this situation in Germany. For me, a critical opinion regarding once state oder government is not a bad thing at all.
 

snap0212

Member
but forcing adults to identify themselves personally.
Adults have to identify themselves when they want to access things that are not allowed in the hands of minors. I’ve said multiple times that you can be asked for identification when buying alcohol, for example. How on earth would it be possible to prohibit minors from accessing something if you don’t have any proof for who’s a minor and who isn’t. That doesn’t make sense.

And yes, I think no two 14-year-olds are the same. The "violence" of "Gremlins" was once FSK-16 and is now perhaps FSK-12.
So we should evaluate every single person instead of having laws that are tied to a certain age? Good luck with that, but let’s not start with games. Let’s start with people’s right to vote and evaluate every single person for that first. Games are not that important so that can wait.


To me, this is a form of testification and therefore criminalization. I just don't consider games like porn or whiskey. I already spoke about that.
Yes, but I’d like an answer as to why you think violence (which is the reason why these games do not appear there) is worse than sex?

In the US the ESRB is also regulating the market but their regulations are not like the ones in Germany where the "Oberste Landesjugendbehoerden" are actually labeling the games and movies, and actually not FSK/USK.
What difference does it make? In the end, it doesn’t matter who the person is that puts the label on the box. You should read more about the USK (and how they proceed when labeling games) before making judgements: http://www.usk.de/pruefverfahren/pruefverfahren/

"The Guy Game" is perhaps the worst example for that because "The Guy Game" today is considered to be some sort of child pornography under US laws.
One could compare it to Germany, where games get banned when they include content that’s illegal in Germany. There’s no difference aside from the types of content that’s accepted.

As I already wrote: a "Personalausweis" is at least no necessity in other countries. And by the way... Why this should be "ideal" is totally beyond me -
I really don't understand why people are so eager to defend this situation in Germany. For me, a critical opinion regarding once state oder government is not a bad thing at all.
It’s not necessary on the internet, it’s necessary everywhere else. I mentioned the alcohol example a couple of times. Why should I have to show ID when buying porn in a store but not when watching it on my console? So either the system is completely wrong and I shouldn’t be asked to show proof of age anywhere or the internet is some kind of special zone where the laws shouldn’t be applied.

----------

I’m really starting to lose you here. On one hand, you say restrictions to porn and alcohol are a good thing. You say that certain kinds of content should be restricted but then also say that - to get through the age-gate - you shouldn’t have to show any proof?

How is this any different from saying “I want alcohol to not be sold to minors. But people buying alcohol shouldn’t have to provide any kind of identification”.

Your explanation as to why Germany has it wrong is because other countries do it differently and (imo) in a way that doesn’t keep any minor from accessing anything?

So far, Germany seems to be the only country that takes age-restrictions on certain thing on the internet to an actual existence. What we have currently is “If you click here, you’re 18/21”. How useful is this?

I can only explain this by your view that sex and drugs are worse than violence, which you have yet to confirm to me.
 

snap0212

Member
There are so many shitty things regarding video games in Germany but this really isn’t one of them. The German government wants to make sure minors don’t see certain content. This happens in a lot of countries, the US as well but more so with sex than violent content.

So other countries are saying: “How can we keep minors from seeing that content?” and the answer is “We just ask them to click enter only if they’re 18 already”. Everyone agrees that this is an amazing idea that will, definitely, keep minors out of porn sites. Others hide this somewhere in the EULA that you agree to when starting to use the service.

Germany has the same goal as others, maybe not regarding the same content, but that doesn’t matter. Some genius came up with the button idea but then someone remembered that children might be clicking that button regardless of their actual age. No one could believe it at first, everyone was really shocked but it turned out to be true.

There’s content that doesn’t need to be seen by minors. For you it’s a blowjob, for me it’s a head being cut off. I want to be sure that the system my child is using is safe for them so I welcome Nintendo for making this move to “we assume your a child until proven otherwise”. As mentioned 20 times before, the store clerk does the same thing unless he’s actually sure. Really, the only problem is that we cannot “prove otherwise”. We cannot call Nintendo, clicking “I’m 18 LOL!!!” clealy is no proof at all and we’re still in need of a good solution.

So we can bitch about the restriction in general all you want but then we better have a solution ready and not a shitty "Do it like us, we use a button to keep the children out" or "Do it like we do, we include it somewhere hidden in the EULA that nobody has ever read" excuse you know is about as useful as telling your kid "It's hot, don't touch it".
 
There are so many shitty things regarding video games in Germany but this really isn’t one of them. The German government wants to make sure minors don’t see certain content. This happens in a lot of countries, the US as well but more so with sex than violent content.

So other countries are saying: “How can we keep minors from seeing that content?” and the answer is “We just ask them to click enter only if they’re 18 already”. Everyone agrees that this is an amazing idea that will, definitely, keep minors out of porn sites. Others hide this somewhere in the EULA that you agree to when starting to use the service.

Germany has the same goal as others, maybe not regarding the same content, but that doesn’t matter. Some genius came up with the button idea but then someone remembered that children might be clicking that button regardless of their actual age. No one could believe it at first, everyone was really shocked but it turned out to be true.

There’s content that doesn’t need to be seen by minors. For you it’s a blowjob, for me it’s a head being cut off. I want to be sure that the system my child is using is safe for them so I welcome Nintendo for making this move to “we assume your a child until proven otherwise”. As mentioned 20 times before, the store clerk does the same thing unless he’s actually sure. Really, the only problem is that we cannot “prove otherwise”. We cannot call Nintendo, clicking “I’m 18 LOL!!!” clealy is no proof at all and we’re still in need of a good solution.

So we can bitch about the restriction in general all you want but then we better have a solution ready and not a shitty "Do it like us, we use a button to keep the children out" or "Do it like we do, we include it somewhere hidden in the EULA that nobody has ever read" excuse you know is about as useful as telling your kid "It's hot, don't touch it".

We could. An easy solution was allready proposed here. NFC enabled cash cards that are sold in store 18+. Retailers confirm age, NFC card then certifies one account as 18 + and that's that.
They could make those cards standalone or have them incorporated in eShop money cards.
But that would require actual effort on Nintendos Part instead of just seeking the cheapest solution.
 

AzaK

Member
So are titles restricted even if the account currently logged into Wii U is 18+? If so I'd not be able to buy any. I'm never up that late these days.

This sounds so shitty.
 

JMPerona

Member
We could. An easy solution was allready proposed here. NFC enabled cash cards that are sold in store 18+. Retailers confirm age, NFC card then certifies one account as 18 + and that's that.
They could make those cards standalone or have them incorporated in eShop money cards.
But that would require actual effort on Nintendos Part instead of just seeking the cheapest solution.

But that solution is even worse than that that Nintendo is proposing. You MUST buy a card and not use your own credit card. Its the same or worse than waiting until 23:00.
 

snap0212

Member
We could. An easy solution was allready proposed here. NFC enabled cash cards that are sold in store 18+. Retailers confirm age, NFC card then certifies one account as 18 + and that's that.
They could make those cards standalone or have them incorporated in eShop money cards.
But that would require actual effort on Nintendos Part instead of just seeking the cheapest solution.
I completely agree that Nintendo should have given adults an option to prove their age. Missing out on that is definitely only their fault.

I am, however, in favor of assuming that children use the system and not making it like other console manufacturers that hide “If you agree, you’re 18” somewhere in their EULA and ToS. If you want the protection for children, you have to jump through a hoop. At retail stores, this hoop is showing your ID - that’s an easy thing to do. On the internet, or on video game system, a useful and actually working system has yet to be implemented.

Come on, no one really believes that the “Click enter only if you’re 18” buttons keep any children out? The fact that this is even acceptable at some places is absolutely ridiculous. Still: Nintendo has to catch up and they should do it fast.

So are titles restricted even if the account currently logged into Wii U is 18+? If so I'd not be able to buy any. I'm never up that late these days.

This sounds so shitty.
Yes. But if you think about it, saying you’re 18 really doesn’t mean anything at all and doesn’t count anywhere but on the internet. Everyone can just lie and say “Hey, I’m 25 on my Wii U account” and people usually do that. It’s really no real proof that you’re an adult.

But that solution is even worse than that that Nintendo is proposing. You MUST buy a card and not use your own credit card. Its the same or worse than waiting until 23:00.
There should be a free, one time registration that is tied to your account. Something like a button on the main menus that says “Register” and then you can enter your e-mail adress. Various ways would be best: Scan in and send over a copy of your ID, buy this NFC chip, call here and tell them your ID number. Anything would be okay...
 

Scum

Junior Member
So are titles restricted even if the account currently logged into Wii U is 18+? If so I'd not be able to buy any. I'm never up that late these days.

This sounds so shitty.

Yep. The titles are available, but obviously restricted to between 11pm - 3am for previews/purchase & download.
 
Pretty baffling move. Especially not being able to simply view the content. I mean you could just jump online and read about any mature rated game at any time regardless of age. Very odd. Hopefully they fix it for you guys Europe.
 

Scum

Junior Member
Yeah.....when most would probably be asleep I assume or working late.
KuGsj.gif

It works out well for me, actually. I work an evening shift so I'm usually in around 1am. lol
But still, I want wsippel's NFC age cards' idea to happen.
 
There are so many shitty things regarding video games in Germany but this really isn’t one of them. The German government wants to make sure minors don’t see certain content. This happens in a lot of countries, the US as well but more so with sex than violent content.

So other countries are saying: “How can we keep minors from seeing that content?” and the answer is “We just ask them to click enter only if they’re 18 already”. Everyone agrees that this is an amazing idea that will, definitely, keep minors out of porn sites. Others hide this somewhere in the EULA that you agree to when starting to use the service.

Germany has the same goal as others, maybe not regarding the same content, but that doesn’t matter. Some genius came up with the button idea but then someone remembered that children might be clicking that button regardless of their actual age. No one could believe it at first, everyone was really shocked but it turned out to be true.

There’s content that doesn’t need to be seen by minors. For you it’s a blowjob, for me it’s a head being cut off. I want to be sure that the system my child is using is safe for them so I welcome Nintendo for making this move to “we assume your a child until proven otherwise”. As mentioned 20 times before, the store clerk does the same thing unless he’s actually sure. Really, the only problem is that we cannot “prove otherwise”. We cannot call Nintendo, clicking “I’m 18 LOL!!!” clealy is no proof at all and we’re still in need of a good solution.

So we can bitch about the restriction in general all you want but then we better have a solution ready and not a shitty "Do it like us, we use a button to keep the children out" or "Do it like we do, we include it somewhere hidden in the EULA that nobody has ever read" excuse you know is about as useful as telling your kid "It's hot, don't touch it".

Hey, keep it down. We don't want your logical behavior to trickle down to other parts of world.

I still say registering with a credit card should be sufficient. If banks want to authorize a credit card to 14 year olds that's their problem. At least this way there is a transaction history that parents can keep better tabs on.

Nintendo will never be taken seriously if their systems continually look like they are being shielded from the other systems by treating all their customers as minors. This goes back to the ridiculous friend codes and the choices they even make on the Wii U with universal voice chat and how to add friends. I won't get into the Miiverse comments since I do agree that should be monitored. Nintendo doesn't need to be a follower but they should really go the route that has proven to work instead of always trying to be different.
 
But that solution is even worse than that that Nintendo is proposing. You MUST buy a card and not use your own credit card. Its the same or worse than waiting until 23:00.

Just do both. Either use a credit card, or use pre paid cards with NFC enabled chips that are age controlled by retailers. In both instances a controlling body is in place and ensures that access is reasonably restricted.
 

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
Eurogamer got a response

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-12-10-nintendo-explains-crazy-wii-u-eshop-restrictions

“At Nintendo we always aim to provide a safe gaming experience for fans of all ages and ensure that we comply with applicable legal age restriction requirements across Europe,” a Nintendo spokesperson told Eurogamer. “Legal age restriction requirements vary across a number of European countries. Since Nintendo of Europe is based in Germany, Nintendo eShop is complying with German youth protection regulation which therefore applies to all our European markets. Under German law, content rated 18+ must be made available only at night. “Therefore the accessibility of 18+ content in Nintendo eShop is limited to [USK: 22:00 UTC until 4:00 UTC] [PEGI: 23:00 UTC until 3:00 UTC].”
 

Pyri

Neo Member
I can only explain this by your view that sex and drugs are worse than violence, which you have yet to confirm to me.

That's disgusting. Do you even have any idea what by saying "violence" you actually mean?
Yes, of course! What you say is basically that watching the tv show "Mad Men" is the same as real smoking, you could also get lung cancer from that, and so forth.
No, I don't either want children watching performed real acts of fellatio. nor people getting their heads "cut off". But therefore, by "cutting" heads off, I really don't know (anymore) what you mean when you say "violence": there are videos of executions, and there are horror movies. And there's a difference in those two! A difference which at least for me has also to be manifested in regulations. That's all I was saying and tried to show you.

Cause I'm at least "able" to differentiate between reality and fiction, even in virtual surroundings. End of "discussion".

By the way: I wrote my dissertation about the USK, so I think I know this institution quite well...
What's you not bothering seems to be starting with the simple fact that the OLJB is the German state. And the ESRB-ratings are NOT state-regulation. It's perfectly possible for Amazon.com to sell unrated movies. In Germany it's not with "indizierte Filme", when movies are not-rated by the FSK and therefore could get indiziert by the BPjM.
 
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