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MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
(12-12-2012, 04:24 AM)
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Excellent Topic.

So much info.
BrhysH
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:25 AM)
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Fantastic work, really enjoyed reading that.

I wonder if I should drive by the SK office to see if anyone is there.
grap3fruitman
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mama Robotnik

With the Nintendo and Silicon Knights partnership, Too Human was terminated. Silicon Knights channelled their energies into a new game a psychological horror for the Nintendo 64 called Too Human.

A significant typo you may want to correct.
Purexed
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:30 AM)
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Amazing work. Would have loved to see a synopsis of the 1up interview fiasco. Best gaming podcast episode ever.
Mifune
Mehmber
(12-12-2012, 04:31 AM)
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What a great thread and a sad story.

That awesome ED2 creature art makes me even sadder. Dumb Dyack.
MidnightCowboy
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:32 AM)
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My friend's dad is Kain. I didn't know this until recently.
Pneophen
Junior Member
(12-12-2012, 04:32 AM)
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The initial version of Too Human sounds way more interesting than what we ended up with.
JasoNsider
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:32 AM)
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I'm only around 25% through this and I can't believe how thoroughly you've pulled this all together. I bet you this is even more comprehensive and all-encompasing than what SK themselves have on their end. Incredible work! This is my bed-time reading tonight :)
hwalker84
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:36 AM)
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Tagged to read later.
Kud Dukan
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:39 AM)
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Damn, you had to post this during final's week, didn't you?

Amazing job.
Sneaky Gato
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:42 AM)
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An incredible read! I read all the way through it and can't help but appreciate all the work that went into it.

As I was going through it though I couldn''t but notice this guy


He seems to be wearing a stylized Chaos Star making me wonder if its a reference to Warhammers Fabius Bile. They would presumably have had the same role of upgrading people.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(12-12-2012, 04:42 AM)
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Done sifting through the Kain saga. Bravo sir, I mean that sincerely. This is better than watching a high action packed movie. Unfortunate that you couldn't get any info from that former dev. Would love to know more about how crappy that ordeal went.

I have to say, Dyack gets shit but this seems to be something in which SK was truly given the shaft on and one could only imagine what the would have done with the IP had they been able to continue what they started.
GoofsterStud
Banned
(12-12-2012, 04:43 AM)
Fantastic! Wish I could thumbs up this post. :-)
Amagon
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:44 AM)
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Just finished reading and geezus at the quotes from Dyack. And I thought Peter Molyneux was fool of shit.

Seriously though, kudos to you Mama Robotnik for this insightful read. This is how gaming journalism should be done.
Last edited by Amagon; 12-12-2012 at 04:46 AM.
Ridley327
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by THE NO LIFE KING

Just finished reading and geezus at the quotes from Dyack. And I thought Peter Molyneux was fool of shit.

This is the best kind of typo!
MrBS
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:47 AM)
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Fascinating stuff. I have such a soft spot for SK. Sad to see thing they way they are now.
bearcatjosh
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:47 AM)
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Nicely done. You really should try to get paid for doing the research you do.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Purexed

Amazing work. Would have loved to see a synopsis of the 1up interview fiasco. Best gaming podcast episode ever.

Well, there's this over at 1up, I dunno if this is exactly what you're looking for, or if I've just pointed you right to everything you've already heard.
Last edited by Fine Ham Abounds; 12-12-2012 at 04:50 AM.
Oreoleo
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:51 AM)
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Oh so this is what games journalism looks like. Nice job Mama.
kr2t0s
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:51 AM)
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Is it possible to get a PDF of this?
golem
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:53 AM)
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Fascinating tale
Mifune
Mehmber
(12-12-2012, 04:53 AM)
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I think Too Human would have been a success if petty Dyack would have just stuck with UE3. The final product would have been finished, for starters, and Microsoft would have actually supported it since SK wouldn't have been at war with one of its biggest partners and blown so much of the budget on rebuilding the damned thing from scratch (but not getting rid of all the early code, leading to the company's ruin).
ferr
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by kr2t0s

Is it possible to get a PDF of this?

Might could add it to wikipedia and have it PDF'd / physicalized.
Sax Russel
location: beach
(12-12-2012, 04:55 AM)
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Your threads are amazing <3
n8
Member
(12-12-2012, 04:56 AM)
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Beautiful thread
Insightful story
Sad end

Thank you very much.
bishopcruz
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Grief.exe

I actually really enjoyed Too Human.

Fun combat system, difficult, and had deep RPG mechanics. Reminds me of demon souls in a way with the hub system.
It was actually pretty skill based. Once you got good at dodge into slide into your various other abilities it really opened up.
And the RPG mechanics actually got very deep with the rune system, damage/defense caps, and the rare open socket armors.

It was deeply flawed, but still an enjoyable experience and potentially a very good story to work with as well.

Would have loved to see a sequel. Great write up, an interesting read throughout.

I never beat too human, and the core gameplay wasn't the problem. The biggest problem that game had was that the level design was atrocious. The first world was pretty boring, and the second world was horrible, so horrible that I quit then and there. What I would love to find out is WHY they went from their Deus Ex style cyberpunk future to the whole Norse mythology thing. Restarting cancelled games has got to suck, but I just do not understand why they abandoned years of plotting and design work for future Norse Diablo. Not that I didn't like the concept of the new Too Human, it just seemed like quite a waste of time and effort.

I wonder if the rights to the original concept were left with Nintendo since they funded the GC development.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
(12-12-2012, 05:02 AM)
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Annnnnd done.

That was a juicy read. And it ain't even the whole story with many bits shrouded in NDA's among other barriers. I sort of feel some sympathy and resentment towards the way SK went from a near AAA dev to a much lesser developer that owes money. A sad ending.
squall23
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:08 AM)
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I wasn't on GAF when the whole Too Human thing happened, nor did I play the 360 game, but upon hearing all the stuff about the game's setting and concepts I kind of wish that it would've turned into a better game. It really sounded like it would be something that I could like.
Jugendstil
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:09 AM)
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Fantastic work as usual, Mama. You definitely need to be archiving your work somewhere online, it's great.

As for SK, it seems pretty obvious Dyack killed the company with his own hands. I love Blood Omen but think everything after that is overrated (ED and Twin Snakes) or objectively awful (Too Human). As noted by another poster in this thread... hubris!
Oddduck
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:11 AM)
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Amazing read. Really insightful and enjoyable.
Gilgamesh
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:16 AM)
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I love that the reader is invited to preview Kain 2 at "videogames.com"
Charoncaori
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:19 AM)
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I love, love love your threads, Mama Robotnik. Your writing and presentation of the material is always really, really interesting, and beta and development information is something I adore reading about. =D

Slight correction:

Too Human (Nintendo GameCube)

Partner: Nintendo
Status: Cancelled

With the successful releases of Eternal Darkness and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes, Nintendo was a proven and popular developer. The Legacy of Kain franchise they had started, was going into its third and fourth sequels under Crystal Dynamics proof that SK could create original IPs with franchise potential. There were many, many requests for a sequel to Eternal Darkness but Silicon Knights had other ideas.

I'm assuming Nintendo should be Silicon Knights. =P

I'm still reading the rest of your posts, I'll post if I come across any other typos. =D
Gunsmithx
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:22 AM)
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awesome work Mama!

This is kinda sad in a way, they got pretty high and then fell amazingly far. Hard to believe the entire story in some ways cause it sounds insane that Dyack would basically seem to lose him mind towards the end. shame we'll never get ED 2 now.
Ezalc
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:24 AM)
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Awesome read. I've always wanted to pick up Eternal Darkness but with me not being too good at horror anything I haven't done so, yet. Sad about what happened to this company, they could have become amazing had they stuck by Nintendo.
soultron
I will snowboard
into a PRISON
(12-12-2012, 05:25 AM)
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I work with a bunch of ex-SKers. While the ED fanboy in me wants to ask about ED2, I think that it'd be kind of rude.

Great work as always, MR! Always a fan every time you dig deep and post your work here.
RobotHaus
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:29 AM)
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I'll have to get around to reading all of it, but what I've read you did some very good research.

It seemed like SK was one of those companies that just couldn't get up to speed with this gen. And even then still, it seems like a lot of their issues were with management. It's a shame because I really did enjoy Eternal Darkness. Too Human on the other hand? Bleh.
ezekial45
I have assigned to you one day for each year its punishment will last.
(12-12-2012, 05:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by soultron

I work with a bunch of ex-SKers. While the ED fanboy in me wants to ask about ED2, I think that it'd be kind of rude.

Great work as always, MR! Always a fan every time you dig deep and post your work here.

Oh wow, that's quite a cloud they've got over them. I'm sure you're not alone in wondering what happened with it.
LOCK
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:29 AM)
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True journalism!

And SK never should have left Nintendo. That's the Nintendo curse for ya.
xbhaskarx
(12-12-2012, 05:29 AM)
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I wonder if Dyack is reading this....
ProfessorMoran
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:33 AM)
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A bit too much of a love-note, Dyack essentially dug the hole SK wound up in, overly grandiose promises of games his studio can never deliver kept fans strung along for years and years, I was surprised they lasted this long. The epic lawsuit was simply a stupid, stupid move.
BillyBats
Banned
(12-12-2012, 05:36 AM)

Originally Posted by Grief.exe

I actually really enjoyed Too Human.

Fun combat system, difficult, and had deep RPG mechanics. Reminds me of demon souls in a way with the hub system.
It was actually pretty skill based. Once you got good at dodge into slide into your various other abilities it really opened up.
And the RPG mechanics actually got very deep with the rune system, damage/defense caps, and the rare open socket armors.

It was deeply flawed, but still an enjoyable experience and potentially a very good story to work with as well.

Would have loved to see a sequel. Great write up, an interesting read throughout.

I also really enjoyed this game. I loved the sliding combat, it made every encounter feel so intense and fast. I really didn't think the game was deeply flawed...it seems we as gamers, or people, need to throw a shit caveat at anything we enjoy. You'll see a lot of "I thought Skyrim was incredible, but the story, voice acting, save system, etc. was the worst thing I have ever seen." type of posts. Can't we just like stuff without HAVING to find faults with it? Generally speaking.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:36 AM)
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Siren in the maelstrom is a badass name for something
Last edited by Gamer @ Heart; 12-12-2012 at 05:42 AM.
MechaX
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by xbhaskarx

I wonder if Dyack is reading this....

I just hoped Dyack learned something from all of this. But given his reported personality both through word of mouth, his... infamous Too Human incident on GAF, and other stuff here, probably not.

Actually, has anyone spoke to Dyack or interviewed him post Epic-suit?
Ridley327
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by MechaX

I just hoped Dyack learned something from all of this. But given his reported personality both through word of mouth, his... infamous Too Human incident on GAF, and other stuff here, probably not.

Actually, has anyone spoke to Dyack or interviewed him post Epic-suit?

I think the closest that we're going to get for a while was the ED2 teasing he was doing before declaring that it totally wasn't that game he was teasing. I'm sure he's going to stay quiet on everything for a long time.
AlberichMX
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:39 AM)
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Amazing job with this thread! So much detailed info here.
AlphaTwo00
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(12-12-2012, 05:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by soultron

I work with a bunch of ex-SKers. While the ED fanboy in me wants to ask about ED2, I think that it'd be kind of rude.

Great work as always, MR! Always a fan every time you dig deep and post your work here.

LOL. Southern Ontario studios seems to be always home to at least one or two ex-SKers, and I'm sure everyone's got a fun story to tell if they want to.
scytheavatar
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:41 AM)
For all the hate publishers get can you imagine what EA/Activision/Microsoft/etc went through after being conned by a bad developer like Silicon Knights? This is something all you kickstarter fans should keep in mind of, it's not that publishers don't deserve the hate they receive but the whole idea that developers are angels who can do no wrong is nothing short of laughable. I bet that some of the highly anticipated kickstarter games are already being worked on by the next Silicon Knights.
Eternia
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:41 AM)
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A very incredible thread! It's a shame that Silicon Knights somehow kept digging themselves into trouble throughout their existence. Constantly restarting their projects probably didn't help either so realistically they had very little work under their name for the time spent. They should have just pushed some of these titles out if they were so close to completion, it's really puzzling.

The original concept for Too Human sounded really interesting but I'm not entirely sure about the execution of that short gameplay clip in comparison with other games in that era. Too bad they ended up trashing it.
ProfessorMoran
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by MechaX

I just hoped Dyack learned something from all of this. But given his reported personality both through word of mouth, his... infamous Too Human incident on GAF, and other stuff here, probably not.

Actually, has anyone spoke to Dyack or interviewed him post Epic-suit?

It's not like he can do anything other than close shop at this point, does he even have any game codes left? Maybe the Ontario government will waste millions of tax dollars to bail him out, and he can somehow sucker another publisher into a deal.
Shiggy
Member
(12-12-2012, 05:42 AM)
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Just a few notes:
- The game you show as "The Crucible" is not The Crucible: Evil Within, which was a temporary title of The Box/The Ritualist. The game you are showing is Big Huge Games' Ascendant that was developed for THQ.
- You may want to include some information on SK's contract work in its early days, such as Tork.
- The Too Human scenes you found on Albert Alejandro's portfolio are based on PS2-generation hardware (How do I know? That was mentioned on his old portfolio)
- The GIA artworks for Too Human are from the PSX days
- The concept room by Raffaele Ienco does not really look like something that was possible on GCN hardware, I believe it's for current generation hardware. After all, Too Human was not really in active development for GCN as the team was busy with ED and MGS.
- The Box started out as an Unreal Engine title, that's why it's in the file name.
- King's Quest was done for Vivendi, so it must have been before the Activision-Vivendi merger.

Please also watch your PM folder.
Last edited by Shiggy; 12-12-2012 at 05:57 AM.

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