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A post-mortem of Silicon Knights (Mama Robotnik research thread)

I think there's more to that story than what we know. I mean, the change to his attitude seems too drastic to be spurred solely by Nintendo's choice to release a console with underpowered hardware.

Sure about that? This IS Dyack we're talking about...

...A guy who ruined a studio that worked with industry legends like Miyamoto and Kojima.
 
Sure about that? This IS Dyack we're talking about...

...A guy who ruined a studio that worked with industry legends like Miyamoto and Kojima.

Yeah, well, he does seem to have some delusions of grandeur problems, but following the development of the 360 version of Too Human for many years, I have to say that I actually agreed with a lot of things he had to say about the industry; he didn't strike me as a particularly unreasonable individual on that level. So I don't think simply writing him off as a madman is good for getting to the bottom of this whole "what happened to Silicon Knights?" story. I'd love to hear his side of it, for instance.
 

Ketch

Member
Wow, good work.

I hope you do something similar to this in your actual job because you're really good at it.
 

dionysus

Yaldog
Great research. But a point of clarification please.

If you counted every prototype that was shopped around to publishers as a cancelled game wouldn't all developers have way more cancelled games than released games?

I guess the difference here being that DD devoted lots of resources (probably fraudulently too if X-Men is an example) to these prototypes and wouldn't give up on them easily.
 

BeesEight

Member
Yeah, well, he does seem to have some delusions of grandeur problems, but following the development of the 360 version of Too Human for many years, I have to say that I actually agreed with a lot of things he had to say about the industry; he didn't strike me as a particularly unreasonable individual on that level. So I don't think simply writing him off as a madman is good for getting to the bottom of this whole "what happened to Silicon Knights?" story. I'd love to hear his side of it, for instance.

I doubt he's always been a madman too. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that's he's always been terrible at management, however.
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
This has been picked up by a lot of news blogs, its the first few hits when I Googled SK just now.

They still have their 5-man skeleton crew going though, right? Maybe another sign of Dyack's delusion about the future, unless they start making iPhone games or something. What a tale this guy's career has been, though.
 

Mifune

Mehmber
Denis seemed like a pretty cool guy back at E3 2001. A little excitable, maybe, but that's not always a bad thing.
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Great research. But a point of clarification please.

If you counted every prototype that was shopped around to publishers as a cancelled game wouldn't all developers have way more cancelled games than released games?

I for one completely agree with this, and as I said in my previous post, many of SK's earlier cancellations can be attributed to causes that were out of their hands, and also don't appear to me to be so unusual that they couldn't have happened to other small studios.

I'm not saying Dyack did a fantastic job managing SK, but I don't think there is anything in this new information that supports the claim he was a terrible manager. As far as I'm concerned there is evidence of this in the Kotaku article (crucially, in the form of employee testimonies), but the new information provided by Mama Robotnik (for which I am very thankful and appreciative, don't get me wrong) doesn't appear to add anything on top of that.

So far any claims I've seen in this thread to the contrary appear to be based on the assumption that people are reasonably consistent in their behavior, therefor if we know Dyack was dishonest and unprofessional during certain projects, it's likely he also acted that way on other projects.

That's not the craziest of conclusions, but it is still biased.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Never did get around to playing Eternal Darkness. Only game I think I played from these guys was Twin Snakes (which was surprisingly amazing) and the Too Human Demo, to which I said NOPE.jpg
 
This was a really interesting read. These are the kinds of stories I'm interested in when it comes to games journalism. It's nice (also sad, in this case) to see the inner workings of gaming development.
 
Just wanted to say thanks for all the work, fascinating read.

Wish there were a lot more pieces like this regarding games canceled and released.
 

border

Member
I'd love to know the truth about what happened during their fallout with Nintendo. Did they really know that the Wii was going to be "underpowered"? Or was it just that Nintendo was pushing them towards smaller projects when they wanted bigger ones? Or was it just that Nintendo wouldn't greenlight another version of Too Human?

I suspect we'll never know :( But I hope Dyack does a tell-all book or interview someday. It's so weird how they went from "Yeah we're basically the same as any other internal Nintendo studio, but in Canada" to "Fuck that, we're moving on to bigger and better things".
 

Oemenia

Banned
Read through all of that, great read!

Ive been really interested in British Shakespearean/theatre actors and so reading up on Blood Omen was perfect timing so another thanks for feeding my current phase.

Edit: Are there any similar write-ups of development of great games?
 

efyu_lemonardo

May I have a cookie?
Read through all of that, great read!

Ive been really interested in British Shakespearean/theatre actors and so reading up on Blood Omen was perfect timing so another thanks for feeding my current phase.

Edit: Are there any similar write-ups of development of great games?

check any Mama Robotnik thread ;)
 

Shiggy

Member
GameArt12.jpg
GameArt13.jpg
GameArt14.jpg


Perhaps from The Box? Dan Tozer worked at SK from October 1997 till July 2012.
 
I want a sequel to Too Human. I for one, thoroughly enjoyed that game. So many hours spend on Co-op with a friend of mine grinding for that loot and such...
 
Bump for new material. I've edited all these into the OPsL

(1) I had to include the story that tensions were so high during Silicon Knights/Crystal Dynamics collaboration that the police were called in:



(2) A load of new media from The Box:

LGnKbpa.jpg


TUvL5yS.jpg


dZQkksO.jpg


cSWBv5A.jpg


UAi9skQ.jpg










(Source: Don Toledo)

(3) I've removed the incorrect references to THQ's The Ritualist - despite the speculation at the time it was not a SK game.

(4) I've added in Shiggy's own fantastic material that he has posted throughout the thread, with thanks.
 
Another bump for another possible find:

80wINOV.jpg


(Source: Matthew Lau)

According to Matthew's resume, he worked at Silicon Knights back in 2008 on multiple game development concepts. The image of a possessed magical-empowered Roman centurion is strongly connected to the Eternal Darkness mythos. Could this have been a very early take on a direct sequel to ED?

I'm speculating that Pious Augustus returned to Rome with a disguise of humanity - though those magically attuned could still see the glow of his eyes.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I could be reaching, but this image:

UAi9skQ.jpg


Does make me think a little of Eternal Darkness. By the end of the story Ulyaoth (Magic), Xel'lotath (Mind), and Chattur'gha (Body) were all flushed from existence. This leaves two other ancients: Mantorok (Corpse God), and an unidentified ancient represented through yellow magics, who seems to aid characters throughout the game.

If we're using a colour to represent the two, those two trinkets would be perfect for each of the two, who you'd assume would play a significant role in a sequel. A yellow, lucky foot for the yellow magic god. A festering, corpse foot for Mantorok.
 

Shiggy

Member
Great new findings! Based on those character models, I'd assume that the Dan Tozer assets were also part of The Box.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
This story is heartbreaking. Blood Omen is one of my all-time favourite games, so I will forever love Silicon Knights just for that. And of course, Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes are fantastic games (despite Kitamura ruining all the cut scenes with stupid slowmo over-the-top sht). Dyack's descent into hubris and madness is just... wow.

I'm a few months late but found this thread via the Shadows of the Eternal thread. Thanks for researching and writing down all of this.

The initial version of Too Human sounds way more interesting than what we ended up with.
Indeed. It seems like it'd be Deus Ex before Deus Ex was even a thing. What a shame.

The Kain story is heartbreaking, losing the rights to his baby might gave been the seed leading to Dyack's insanity.
Crystal Dynamics are real douchebags, stealing their creation in such a vicious way, even ruining their chances to get it back for the sequel. Fucking bastards.

I loved Blood Omen (and it still holds a great influence on me), and I funnily immediately disliked the feel of the sequels. Guess my guts were right on this.


Now I'm really bummed about Kain II, I would've loved to play that game :(
Ditto, though I did like the Soul Reaver games. But they weren't my Blood Omen, and I can sympathize with Dyack when he saw his creation turn into something completely alien.

Less sympathy with how he managed his company (your wife is HR manager? WTF?) and his terribad decisions that followed Twin Snakes, but damn. If only he had been one of the designers but not the company manager... sigh.
 

Kal-El814

Member
Came into the thread hoping for an update based on recent events; thanks so much to the OP for the effort and the new content.
 

Shiggy

Member
Hope it's not too late to bump this. But one correction: this character was not for Eternal Darkness 2. Instead it was the final boss of The Rytualist.

TSDAi.jpg
PejjB.jpg



Characters could wake up in the morning, leave their bed, walk outside and do the gardening, and walk back home at the end of the day. AI characters were all persistent - they were able to move from zone to zone (even if zones were unloaded), get new jobs according to the player’s progress through the campaign, keep a relationship of like/dislike toward the player, and if they died, move from the Living Realm to the Dead Realm and do new tasks there. AI characters were also able to transition seamlessly to and from generic fight-or-flight routines when attacked (which depended on their mood and constitution values), or to dialogue and cinematic sequences.

ritualyst1bzo2a.png

AI character in the doorway has an “extreme hate relationship” with the player, so he shoots you on sight.

ritualyst2vook2.png

Final boss relentlessly chases the player across the world map (successfully crossing loading zone volumes and Realm transitions).





_____________________________________________


King's Quest?
g1_005h4slv.jpg

g_003c2s7i.jpg

g1_014zhsp7.jpg



Too Human?
g1_0177ts12.jpg

g1_0184fsvn.jpg

g2_017y5sq1.jpg

g2_0207hsy5.jpg

g2_024l0sgd.jpg

g2_028z2sde.jpg

g3_012cus7t.jpg

g3_014wnsxt.jpg



The Ritualyst?
g_001l9svs.jpg

g_010n5s4x.jpg

g1_0041rs3d.jpg

g1_015josy4.jpg

g1_023rzsyn.jpg

g2_015f4svf.jpg

g3_015p5so1.jpg
 

maxcriden

Member
Misread this as Shovel Knight and got sad because it sounded like such an awesome read. Not to take away from MR's hard work, which is always extraordinarily impressive. Just kinda funny.
 
SK have always had great art concepts and direction, but their in game models and environments are just so bad. That Ritualyst final boss is the nicest looking thing I've seen from them ever.
 
Welp, I'm gonna have to subscribe to this thread if it's occasionally going to be updated with artwork...

I wish Denis wasn't such a misguided individual. I wanted to love 'Too Human' rather than just think it was "Alright, I guess..." and think that maybe the Trilogy would have opened the deeper storyline up.

As it stands, we have/had a company that created 4 Original IP's (seriously, that's incredible) but doesn't know how to function properly for long enough to fully realize their ideas.

If Denis was more open to partnership (like he was when Nintendo supported SK), and able to set his ego aside this could have been a company that created multiple revered franchises. Instead, we are left with this shell of a company.

...sad...
 

Garlador

Member
Welp, I'm gonna have to subscribe to this thread if it's occasionally going to be updated with artwork...

I wish Denis wasn't such a misguided individual. I wanted to love 'Too Human' rather than just think it was "Alright, I guess..." and think that maybe the Trilogy would have opened the deeper storyline up.

As it stands, we have/had a company that created 4 Original IP's (seriously, that's incredible) but doesn't know how to function properly for long enough to fully realize their ideas.

If Denis was more open to partnership (like he was when Nintendo supported SK), and able to set his ego aside this could have been a company that created multiple revered franchises. Instead, we are left with this shell of a company.

...sad...

It really is. Silicon Knights scored a jackpot with some of the best and brightest, most talented and creative people in the entire industry. They had the ideas and skills to make ANYTHING work.

... But their leadership tripped them up almost every single time.

I wonder what could've been had all that talent and potential been guided by a steadier, more reasonable hand.
 
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