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Road
Member
(12-12-2012, 08:46 PM)
FTR, it was actually PSP-2000. Just noticed my mistake...
Chris1964
Sales-Age Genius
(12-12-2012, 08:49 PM)

Originally Posted by Sadist

Q1 is pretty empty for 3DS as well, I'd say after Christmas. 3DS/Wii U mish mash

DQVII in February and MH4 in March don't exactly mean empty schedule for 3DS.

Wii U is empty and they expect top 3 to carry the system for at least 3 months.
staticneuron
Member
(12-12-2012, 08:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by AranhaHunter

It's out long enough and sales are piss poor in every region. Execs either need to come up with a complex and thorough plan that includes stuff from redesign to price drops to big games to revive it and relaunch it or they need to ride out the wave and try to make much while slowly scrapping it. I'm fairly certain, based on their actions, that they chose the latter.

I doubt they will slowly scrap it. Sony doesn't have a history of scraping consoles. I imagine they will give the Vita more time before looking at the possibility but if it's presence on the market is NOT burning a hole in their pocket, why would they? They stand to gain more if it is on the market.

Originally Posted by Father_Brain

Source?

Yes, there are a few vague quotes from Sony which could be interpreted that way, but their overall handling of the platform (refusal to drop the price this year despite historically abysmal sales, obscene markups on memory cards) does not suggest that they're profiting or even breaking even on every unit sold.

In addition to AranhaHunter reply to you, in the Q12012 report from sony, they stated their losses were offset by the Vita. Given the amount of Vita's Sold and their tie ratio it points more towards them actually making a profit of the device despite the low sales.

And the fact that they refuse to drop price of device or card simply means they don't see a need for such a knee jerk reaction. It would make more sense if they were losing money to have that kind of reaction. The fact that they don't seems to indicate that they are ok with playing the waiting game.
Chris1964
Sales-Age Genius
(12-12-2012, 09:02 PM)

Originally Posted by staticneuron

In addition to AranhaHunter reply to you, in the Q12012 report from sony, they stated their losses were offset by the Vita. Given the amount of Vita's Sold and their tie ratio it points more towards them actually making a profit of the device despite the low sales.

And the fact that they refuse to drop price of device or card simply means they don't see a need for such a knee jerk reaction. It would make more sense if they were losing money to have that kind of reaction. The fact that they don't seems to indicate that they are ok with playing the waiting game.

It's not Q1 2012 now, that was the launch quarter of Vita at west. Maybe they refuse to do a price drop because the rise in sales won't balance the loss from hardware.
Father_Brain
Samus made me a Widower :(
(12-12-2012, 09:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by staticneuron

In addition to AranhaHunter reply to you, in the Q12012 report from sony, they stated their losses were offset by the Vita. Given the amount of Vita's Sold and their tie ratio it points more towards them actually making a profit of the device despite the low sales.

No, they didn't.

Originally Posted by Sony Q1 FY2012 earnings release

Sales decreased 14.5% year-on-year (a 10% decrease on a constant currency basis) to 118.0 billion yen (1,493 million U.S. dollars). This decrease was primarily due to lower sales of hardware and software of the PSP® (PlayStation Portable) and PlayStation®3, partially offset by the contribution of the PlayStation®Vita introduced from December 2011.

You're confusing revenue, to which the above quote is referring and which has nothing to do with profits or losses, with operating income (revenue minus expenses). All the above is saying is that the YOY revenue decline would have been even higher had Sony not launched a new platform. In fact, just a few pages later in the same earnings release, they specifically cited poor PSP/Vita sales as one of two primary factors in lowering their forecast for the bottom line of the gaming devision.

Primarily due to the lowering of the annual unit sales forecast for portable hardware, sales are expected to be significantly lower than the May forecast. Due to the above-mentioned decrease in sales and the impact of unfavorable exchange rates, operating income is expected to be significantly below the May forecast. Sales are expected to be essentially flat and operating income is expected to decrease significantly year-on-year.

And what's the source for that tie ratio claim?
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
(12-12-2012, 09:14 PM)
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The handheld war has been utterly disappointing. :/ No resistance whatsoever against Nintendo.
Pancakes R Us
Member
(12-12-2012, 09:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Regulus Tera

The handheld war has been utterly disappointing. :/ No resistance whatsoever against Nintendo.

Well, the traditional handheld war...I guess. But smartphones and tablets, as much as I hate them for doing this, are making a dent.
zroid
Member
(12-12-2012, 09:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Regulus Tera

The handheld war has been utterly disappointing. :/ No resistance whatsoever against Nintendo.

The skies will have to burn before Nintendo faces resistance in the dedicated handheld market again
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
(12-12-2012, 10:24 PM)

Originally Posted by test_account

Even if DQX WiiU sells more, i still dont think that one title is concidered as good support in general. It is also a port. I would say the same with One Piece Musou 2 (where the previous game sold more than DQX) if that was the basically the only 3rd party Vita game. WiiU is kinda in bomb city already when it comes to announced 3rd party games. But i agree that it is too early to say anything concrete.

It's still a much bigger get, that's the point. Saying DQX Wii U is like One Piece Musou 2 Vita is a complete false equivalency.


Originally Posted by test_account

EDIT: Is Deca Sports and Pro Evolution Soccer 2013 announced for WiiU by the way? It wont surprise me if these games come out, but i'm just wondering if they are announced.

Not officially announced yet, but the same retail source also leaked stuff like Game Party Champions, 007 Legends, Warriors Orochi 3 and F1 Race Stars well before they were official. PES2013 was listed for Feb, Deca Sports (4?) for March iirc.
Chris1964
Sales-Age Genius
(12-12-2012, 10:25 PM)
New releases {2012.12.20}

[3DS] Magician's Quest: Magical Town <ETC> (Konami) („4.980)
[3DS] Boku wa Koukuu Kanseikan: Airport Hero 3D - Narita with Ana <SLG> (Sonic Powered) („6.090)
[3DS] Play with Cute Puppy : Stylish! Umi-Hen <SLG> (MTO) („5.040)
[3DS] Nakayoshi Quiz no Oshigo to Theme Park 2 <TBL> (Culture Brain) („5.040)
[3DS] Acrylic Palette: Irodori Cafe - Cheers <ETC> (Klon) („5.040)

[PSV] Call of Duty: Black Ops - Declassified <ACT> (Square Enix) („6.090)
[PSV] AKB1/149: Love Election # <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) („7.329)
[PSV] AKB1/149: Love Election [First Press Limited Edition Ultra Luxurious Box] <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) („14.679)
[PSV] Suugaku Rikiou: Shokyuu Naka-1-Level <EDU> (Media-5) („4.800)
[PSV] Suugaku Rikiou: Shokyuu Naka-2-Level <EDU> (Media-5) („4.800)
[PSV] Suugaku Rikiou: Shokyuu Naka-3-Level <EDU> (Media-5) („4.800)

[PSP] One Piece: Romance Dawn - Bouken no Yoake # <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) („5.980)
[PSP] One Piece: Romance Dawn - Bouken no Yoake [Straw Edition] <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) („19.780)
[PSP] AKB1/149: Love Election # <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) („7.329)
[PSP] AKB1/149: Love Election [First Press Limited Edition Ultra Luxurious Box] <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) („14.679)
[PSP] Tokyo Yamanote Boys Portable: Honey Milk Disc # <ADV> (5pb.) („5.040)
[PSP] Tokyo Yamanote Boys Portable: Honey Milk Disc [Limited Edition] <ADV> (5pb.) („8.190)
[PSP] Yaneura no Kanojo # <ADV> (Piacci) („6.279)
[PSP] Yaneura no Kanojo [Limited Edition] <ADV> (Piacci) („8.379)
[PSP] Solomon's Ring: Hi no Shou # <ADV> (Plan Peace) („3.129)
[PSP] Solomon's Ring: Hi no Shou [Limited Edition] <ADV> (Plan Peace) („6.090)
[PSP] Daiya no Kuni no Alice: Wonderful Wonder World # <ADV> (QuinRose) („6.300)
[PSP] Daiya no Kuni no Alice: Wonderful Wonder World [Deluxe Edition] <ADV> (QuinRose) („8.925)
[PSP] Black Wolves Saga: Last Hope # <ADV> (Idea Factory) („6.090)
[PSP] Black Wolves Saga: Last Hope [Limited Edition] <ADV> (Idea Factory) („8.190)
[PSP] Glass Heart Princess # <ADV> (Idea Factory) („6.090)
[PSP] Glass Heart Princess [Limited Edition] <ADV> (Idea Factory) („8.190)
[PSP] Suiheisenma de Nani Mile? Original Flight <ADV> (Alchemist) („7.140)

[WIU] Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Dubbed Edition <ACT> (Square Enix) („7.980)
[WIU] ESPN Sports Connection <SPT> (Ubisoft) („4.800)
[WIU] Simple Series for Wii U Vol.1: The Family Party <ETC> (D3 Publisher) („2.940)

[WII] Inazuma Eleven Go Strikers 2013 <SPT> (Level 5) („4.980)

[PS3] Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) („8.190)
[PS3] Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage 2 [Treasure Box] <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) („13.440)
[PS3] Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage 2 [PlayStation 3 Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage 2 Legend Edition] <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) („33.170)
[PS3] Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Dubbed Edition <ACT> (Square Enix) („7.980)
[PS3] White Album 2: Shiawase no Mukougawa # <ADV> (Aqua Plus) („7.140)
[PS3] White Album 2: Shiawase no Mukougawa [Premium Edition] <ADV> (Aqua Plus) („9.240)
[PS3] Sengoku Hime 3: Tenka o Kirisaku Hikari to Kage # <SLG> (SystemSoft Alpha) („7.140)
[PS3] Sengoku Hime 3: Tenka o Kirisaku Hikari to Kage [Limited Edition] <SLG> (SystemSoft Alpha) („9.240)
[PS3] Catherine (Best Selection) <ADV> (Atlus) („2.940)

[360] Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) („8.190)
[360] Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage 2 [Treasure Box] <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) („13.440)
[360] Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Dubbed Edition <ACT> (Square Enix) („7.980)
jeremy1456
Member
(12-12-2012, 10:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by CronoShot

Just noticed there's not a single PSP game in the top 30. When was the last time that happened?

Anyone else remember how the PSP would dominate the 20-30 spots on the chart?

I remember people regarding that as the PSP's 'sweet spot'
Zoe
(12-12-2012, 10:30 PM)
Zoe's Avatar
The PSP and PSV versions of AKB cost the same?
frankie_baby
Banned
(12-12-2012, 10:32 PM)

Originally Posted by Zoe

The PSP and PSV versions of AKB cost the same?

I guess they don't want to give any more incentive for people not to buy the vita version
Chris1964
Sales-Age Genius
(12-12-2012, 10:37 PM)

Originally Posted by Zoe

The PSP and PSV versions of AKB cost the same?

Since sales of AKB will see a big drop at PSP they hope to get some extra from Vita.
Kazerei
(12-12-2012, 10:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Chris1964

[PSV] AKB1/149: Love Election # <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) („7.329)
[PSV] AKB1/149: Love Election [First Press Limited Edition Ultra Luxurious Box] <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games)

[PSP] AKB1/149: Love Election # <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) („7.329)
[PSP] AKB1/149: Love Election [First Press Limited Edition Ultra Luxurious Box] <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games)

This should be a big seller, but it'll be interesting what the PSV/PSP split is.
Spiegel
Member
(12-12-2012, 10:40 PM)
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Why would the Vita version have to cost more? The game is all videos and photos (I'm guessing).
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
(12-12-2012, 10:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by frankie_baby

how about finishing off the n64 version for 3ds

Why would you want that? N64 version was ugly and it's not like Itoi is interested anyway.
Father_Brain
Samus made me a Widower :(
(12-12-2012, 10:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spiegel

Why would the Vita version have to cost more? The game is all videos and photos (I'm guessing).

You're saying that higher-res waifus shouldn't command a higher price?
test_account
XP-39C²
(12-13-2012, 12:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by lunchwithyuzo

It's still a much bigger get, that's the point. Saying DQX Wii U is like One Piece Musou 2 Vita is a complete false equivalency.

I didnt mean to do a direct comparsion between the two games, only that both games are concidered as fairly big and they are both "hindered" (or what i shall say) of not being exclusive to one platform. That is not false equivalency because they both face similar hurdles. We have no idea at this point how much draw these two games alone will have in bringing in other 3rd parties on board. We also have no idea exactly how big demand there is for a HD port of DQX and a portable One Piece Musou. It shall be very interesting to see how much these games sell =)

Personally, i dont see those two games alone doing much for the general 3rd party support for WiiU and Vita respectively, that was my main point earlier. Those games would be big gets on their own if they lead to more 3rd party support, in my opinion.


Originally Posted by lunchwithyuzo

Not officially announced yet, but the same retail source also leaked stuff like Game Party Champions, 007 Legends, Warriors Orochi 3 and F1 Race Stars well before they were official. PES2013 was listed for Feb, Deca Sports (4?) for March iirc.

Ah ok, i see.
Last edited by test_account; 12-13-2012 at 12:46 AM.
metalslimer
Member
(12-13-2012, 12:27 AM)
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I doubt they will slowly scrap it. Sony doesn't have a history of scraping consoles. I imagine they will give the Vita more time before looking at the possibility but if it's presence on the market is NOT burning a hole in their pocket, why would they? They stand to gain more if it is on the market.

Not if they software they keep producing doesn't break even. I can't imagine Gravity Rush, Wipeout, or Resistance broke even. Vita is just a money pit at this point that they will eventually have to price drop and lose what little profit they are making now.
test_account
XP-39C²
(12-13-2012, 12:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by metalslimer

Not if they software they keep producing doesn't break even. I can't imagine Gravity Rush, Wipeout, or Resistance broke even. Vita is just a money pit at this point that they will eventually have to price drop and lose what little profit they are making now.

Gravity Rush probably broke even at least. It has sold/shipped 100k in Japan alone about 9 months ago. I'm not sure about Wipeout 2048 and Reisistance Burning Skies.
metalslimer
Member
(12-13-2012, 12:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by test_account

Gravity Rush probably broke even at least. It has sold/shipped 100k in Japan alone about 9 months ago. I'm not sure about Wipeout 2048 and Reisistance Burning Skies.

It was also in development for years. It's not it was a quickly thrown together game. And from every sign we have in the west the game didn't do well at all.
test_account
XP-39C²
(12-13-2012, 12:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by metalslimer

It was also in development for years. It's not it was a quickly thrown together game. And from every sign we have in the west the game didn't do well at all.

Honestly i have no idea how much it cost to make this game, or for game developement in general in Japan for that matter. I know that Gravity Rush is well made game and not something that was made relatively quickly. But i will not be very surprised if this game at least broke even with the worldwide sales. Just a guess, but it wouldnt be a big surprise to me.
Last edited by test_account; 12-13-2012 at 01:05 AM.
MasterSheen
Member
(12-13-2012, 12:56 AM)
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I think it was said that Resistance outsold Gravity Rush in NA?
staticneuron
Member
(12-13-2012, 01:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Chris1964

It's not Q1 2012 now, that was the launch quarter of Vita at west. Maybe they refuse to do a price drop because the rise in sales won't balance the loss from hardware.

I pointed that out because the cost manufacture Vita will only get cheaper over time.
And the issue would never be a rise in sales of the hardware specifically. A rise in sales of the hardware would never balance the loss taken. The gamble is related to getting more people purchasing the software. The tactic they have chosen seems to try and make the Vita a more valuable proposition (PSN+) without bending on the price. That gives them more flexibility down the line if the situations turns worse for them.

Originally Posted by Father_Brain

No, they didn't.


You're confusing revenue, to which the above quote is referring and which has nothing to do with profits or losses, with operating income (revenue minus expenses). All the above is saying is that the YOY revenue decline would have been even higher had Sony not launched a new platform. In fact, just a few pages later in the same earnings release, they specifically cited poor PSP/Vita sales as one of two primary factors in lowering their forecast for the bottom line of the gaming devision.

Correlation my friend.

Operating loss of 3.5 billion yen (45 million U.S. dollars) was recorded, compared to operating income of 4.1
billion yen in the same quarter of the previous fiscal year, due to the impact of the above-mentioned decrease in
sales
and unfavorable foreign exchange rates

It stated right there that the sales DID have a direct effect on the losses and the Vita was not named apart of those losses. Sony isn't shy about placing blame were blame is due. Look back at the reports when the PS3 came out. It was named specifically as reasons for their losses. Considering the Vita has not gotten the same treatment it isn't a stretch to believe they are not losing money on the device.

Originally Posted by Father_Brain

And what's the source for that tie ratio claim?

The numbers I have seen are simply low. That is from MC and estimations based off of sales in other regions. With lower ratios (even using MC as an example alone) they may not be taking a large hit on the hardware seeing their reaction.

Originally Posted by metalslimer

It was also in development for years. It's not it was a quickly thrown together game. And from every sign we have in the west the game didn't do well at all.

The team was Project Siren, so the development time reflects the size of the team more than the cost it took to make the game. Case in point, the FFXIV 2.0 has taken a bit over a year to create but the fact that it has somewhere around 700 people working on it (300 internal and 400 outsourced) means the cost of that release is probably more costly than most games with an average size team and a few years would bill.
Last edited by staticneuron; 12-13-2012 at 01:51 AM.
squid
Member
(12-13-2012, 01:43 AM)
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In a way, I don't want Paper Mario to be crazy successful because I'm fairly disappointed in it and I don't want them to continue along the Sticker Star path, but on the other hand, I want Nintendo to keep making Paper Mario games... I suppose I'll be happy if it ends up roughly in line with previous entries. How has the game sold in the west?

Originally Posted by lunchwithyuzo

Actually, which system sold more 3rd party software in 2012 so far, Wii or Vita?

Should be Wii. I have Wii at 1.5m third-party YTD and Vita at ~1.25m. DQX, Taiko (last years selling in 2012 and this years), Go Vacation, etc.

Originally Posted by Nirolak

There certainly don't seem to be any 3DS announcement blocks,

DQVII comes to mind as a recent example.
Last edited by donny2112; 12-13-2012 at 02:39 AM.
Dalthien
Member
(12-13-2012, 05:20 AM)

Originally Posted by staticneuron

It stated right there that the sales DID have a direct effect on the losses and the Vita was not named apart of those losses. Sony isn't shy about placing blame were blame is due. Look back at the reports when the PS3 came out. It was named specifically as reasons for their losses. Considering the Vita has not gotten the same treatment it isn't a stretch to believe they are not losing money on the device.

All that quote was saying was that the reason they posted a loss this quarter vs. a profit the previous year was mainly because their revenues were down and the exchange rate sucked.

Vita wouldn't be highlighted as either a main cause for losses or profits in that report because the sales of the Vita were so small as to be negligible in comparison to the PS3/PSP/PS2. It would be such a tiny percentage of the gaming pie that it wouldn't have contributed much to either profits or losses regardless of its situation.

Where it hurts, and where Sony has been very deliberate in its attempts to obfuscate the data, is that the Vita numbers themselves have had to be revised down multiple times, and will be revised down again in the next couple quarters. Those downward revisions have a big effect on the expected revenue coming into the gaming division - which is where Sony tries to dance around the issue by saying that the Vita helped offset the revenue decline - which is technically true, since without the Vita, the revenues would have been even worse. But they conveniently leave out the fact that the Vita missing forecasts was a big reason that revenue fell as well.

It's clear from the public comments about how Vita is performing as expected (despite having to significantly revise down its numbers every single quarter), to the sudden practice of combining Vita/PSP numbers - that Sony is taking measures to try mask the performance of the Vita. They've even started taking to combining PS3/PS2 numbers as well now so that it doesn't look so obvious that they were trying to hide the Vita performance.
staticneuron
Member
(12-13-2012, 05:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dalthien

All that quote was saying was that the reason they posted a loss this quarter vs. a profit the previous year was mainly because their revenues were down and the exchange rate sucked.

Vita wouldn't be highlighted as either a main cause for losses or profits in that report because the sales of the Vita were so small as to be negligible in comparison to the PS3/PSP/PS2. It would be such a tiny percentage of the gaming pie that it wouldn't have contributed much to either profits or losses regardless of its situation.

Where it hurts, and where Sony has been very deliberate in its attempts to obfuscate the data, is that the Vita numbers themselves have had to be revised down multiple times, and will be revised down again in the next couple quarters. Those downward revisions have a big effect on the expected revenue coming into the gaming division - which is where Sony tries to dance around the issue by saying that the Vita helped offset the revenue decline - which is technically true, since without the Vita, the revenues would have been even worse. But they conveniently leave out the fact that the Vita missing forecasts was a big reason that revenue fell as well.

It's clear from the public comments about how Vita is performing as expected (despite having to significantly revise down its numbers every single quarter), to the sudden practice of combining Vita/PSP numbers - that Sony is taking measures to try mask the performance of the Vita. They've even started taking to combining PS3/PS2 numbers as well now so that it doesn't look so obvious that they were trying to hide the Vita performance.

Just like I mentioned before with the PS3 if the operating costs of the Vita were much higher than the profit they brought in, it would be mentioned. They wouldn't hide that. It is obvious they are masking performance numbers but what is not clearcut is if they are taking a loss or making a profit.

The point circles back around to if the Vita was causing a loss for the division, they wouldn't omit that fact. So the fact that they didn't indicates that they are at cost or making a profit. Which puts knee jerk reactions out of the window.

From the consumer side it looks bad, especially when our only point of comparison is with other products, but their behavior indicates that it isn't that bad for them and they are not pulling out drastic measures.
Dalthien
Member
(12-13-2012, 05:40 AM)

Originally Posted by staticneuron

It is obvious they are masking performance numbers but what is not clearcut is if they are taking a loss or making a profit.

Yeah - we just don't know.

Originally Posted by staticneuron

The point circles back around to if the Vita was causing a loss for the division, they wouldn't omit that fact.

Sure they would. Because it wouldn't be terribly relevant either way. As I said, they are selling so few of them, that whether it was a small profit per unit or a small loss per unit - it wouldn't have any meaningful impact on the bottom line anyway. Hell - they won't even share the number of units that they're selling. What in god's name makes you think they'd break down the finer profit/loss details on an under-performing system that is currently mostly irrelevant to the profit/loss structure of the division?

Once Vita profits/losses become a significant contributor to the bottom line, then it will be mentioned as a root cause of the bottom line.
DCharlie
Always bet on white
(12-13-2012, 07:09 AM)
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EDIT: Oh, you were thinking DCharlie's predictions. Say no more. :lol

ultimately my issue is that i think the analysis of how things are playing out on the street is somewhat right, my numbers are usually absolute dogshit lol.

I need a foil that corrects my figures - i'd still stand by the revised figure of 480k for the month for WiiU though, though Mario is clearly going to blow a good 80-100k beyond my prediction.

Not that i particularly care - right now i'm baffled as to why Nintendo didn't want this thing in peoples hands! The reality of the experience vs. the description of the experience is night and day: I was grinning like a nutter playing Nintendoland. So joyously fun.

So i am gobsmacked that Nintendo didn't ram this down peoples throats.
staticneuron
Member
(12-13-2012, 07:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dalthien

Yeah - we just don't know.



Sure they would. Because it wouldn't be terribly relevant either way. As I said, they are selling so few of them, that whether it was a small profit per unit or a small loss per unit - it wouldn't have any meaningful impact on the bottom line anyway. Hell - they won't even share the number of units that they're selling. What in god's name makes you think they'd break down the finer profit/loss details on an under-performing system that is currently mostly irrelevant to the profit/loss structure of the division?

Once Vita profits/losses become a significant contributor to the bottom line, then it will be mentioned as a root cause of the bottom line.

Simply because of the truth in reporting. If in fact the Vita is not proving a significant profit or loss then that means...

Originally Posted by staticneuron

So the fact that they didn't indicates that they are at cost or making a profit. Which puts knee jerk reactions out of the window.

My point as it has been all along is that they aren't taking significant losses on the Vita. That would change their behavior real quick. They seem to be steaming along a path that they have planned before hand.

By the time the first quarter ended we are talking about over a million Vita's on the market. If there was something that cost them millions, they would mention it.
Chris1964
Sales-Age Genius
(12-13-2012, 07:17 AM)

Originally Posted by staticneuron

I pointed that out because the cost manufacture Vita will only get cheaper over time.
And the issue would never be a rise in sales of the hardware specifically. A rise in sales of the hardware would never balance the loss taken. The gamble is related to getting more people purchasing the software. The tactic they have chosen seems to try and make the Vita a more valuable proposition (PSN+) without bending on the price. That gives them more flexibility down the line if the situations turns worse for them.

I didn't say rise in sales only for hw. the system is DOA everywhere and I don't see how a price drop without the proper software will improve the situation.

Originally Posted by staticneuron

They seem to be steaming along a path that they have planned before hand.

The path to disaster?
Last edited by Chris1964; 12-13-2012 at 07:41 AM.
Dalthien
Member
(12-13-2012, 07:31 AM)

Originally Posted by staticneuron

My point as it has been all along is that they aren't taking significant losses on the Vita. That would change their behavior real quick. They seem to be steaming along a path that they have planned before hand.

The Vita is not taking significant losses right now. Nor profits. It's not doing anything significant right now (except pulling down their revenue guidance as it keeps missing projections). Vita sales last quarter (hardware and software both) were a tiny fraction of what the PS3/PSP/PS2 sales were last quarter. Its overall effect on the bottom line was damn near meaningless.

And no - they are not steaming along any sort of path that they planned out long ago. Yoshida originally said that he expected the Vita to be profitable after 3 years. That was when they were expecting far higher unit sales (hardware and software) than what the Vita is selling now. They've already reduced PSP/Vita sales this year from 16M to 12M to 10M, and that will be cut again by the end of the fiscal year. Not only does that severely reduce the sales and revenue guidance, it also drastically slashes the projected software sales over those 1st 3 years of the system, since there are so many fewer units in customers' hands over that period of time.

And it makes a price drop hurt that much more - because Sony has either had to slow down manufacturing (increasing the cost per unit), or else they have a shitload of inventory sitting in their own warehouses and/or on retailers' shelves. As soon as they drop the price, they have to write that off as a loss on all of their own inventory - and they have to refund that drop to all of the retailers sitting on inventory, which gets shown as another loss.

That's the one thing that I don't understand is how many people keep repeating this nonsense that the Vita is all going according to the master plan. It's mind-boggling.
StreetsAhead
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(12-13-2012, 08:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Chris1964

[WIU] Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Dubbed Edition <ACT> (Square Enix) („7.980)
[WIU] ESPN Sports Connection <SPT> (Ubisoft) („4.800)
[WIU] Simple Series for Wii U Vol.1: The Family Party <ETC> (D3 Publisher) („2.940)

I just want to point out that these are the last dated games for Japan for Wii U until January 31st.
Moor-Angol
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(12-13-2012, 08:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by StreetsAhead

I just want to point out that these are the last dated games for Japan for Wii U until January 31st.

At least Wii U has a game coming in January
look at 3DS release list on NoJ site....
StreetsAhead
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(12-13-2012, 08:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by Moor-Angol

At least Wii U has a game coming in January
look at 3DS release list on NoJ site....

Still hoping for a post-Christmas Nintendo Direct. We've had one every 2 months for this year to detail the next two months of releases. I'm still (foolishly, maybe) expecting Game & Wario in January, but maybe February.
staticneuron
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(12-13-2012, 08:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dalthien


That's the one thing that I don't understand is how many people keep repeating this nonsense that the Vita is all going according to the master plan. It's mind-boggling.

I wasn't trying to imply that the sales of the Vita were apart of the "master" plan, but Sony's reaction to the market more of a predetermined guideline on prices and features. Instead of just trying to make a drastic move to cut cost they are playing the waiting game. Behind doors they are probably shelving/rearranging resources and third party deals but what we see on the front most likely wouldn't be that much different if it was more popular.

And pardon my ignorance but why would reducing the amount manufactured increase the cost for Sony?
Last edited by staticneuron; 12-13-2012 at 08:26 AM.
jman2050
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(12-13-2012, 08:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by staticneuron

And pardon my ignorance but why would reducing the amount manufactured increase the cost for Sony?

Manufacturing/Distribution costs aren't entirely linear. There are fixed costs involved and costs that completely scale with volume.

Simply put, lower scale of production = lower efficiency of production.
Moor-Angol
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(12-13-2012, 08:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by StreetsAhead

Still hoping for a post-Christmas Nintendo Direct. We've had one every 2 months for this year to detail the next two months of releases. I'm still (foolishly, maybe) expecting Game & Wario in January, but maybe February.

yes, i hope too
usually Nintendo supports its new system with one release a month in the beginning, during Wii they released Excite Trucks in January 2007, so probably the january release will be Game & Wario
but i'm really surprised to see no releases for 3DS, i mean, both from Nintendo and TP; February has already some games planned...
Anth0ny
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(12-13-2012, 08:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by StreetsAhead

Still hoping for a post-Christmas Nintendo Direct. We've had one every 2 months for this year to detail the next two months of releases. I'm still (foolishly, maybe) expecting Game & Wario in January, but maybe February.

a post christmas nintendo direct that won't announce any new games

how exciting
Freezie KO
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(12-13-2012, 08:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Pancakes R Us

Well, the traditional handheld war...I guess. But smartphones and tablets, as much as I hate them for doing this, are making a dent.

Very salient point. Nintendo has plenty of competition regardless of Vita's success/failure.
Moor-Angol
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(12-13-2012, 08:50 AM)
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Inazuma Eleven 1-2-3 (3DS) is now listed for 27 Dec on NoJ site
Parakeetman
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(12-13-2012, 08:51 AM)
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Damned good numbers for RGG5!
electroplankton
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(12-13-2012, 09:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Moor-Angol

yes, i hope too
usually Nintendo supports its new system with one release a month in the beginning, during Wii they released Excite Trucks in January 2007, so probably the january release will be Game & Wario
but i'm really surprised to see no releases for 3DS, i mean, both from Nintendo and TP; February has already
some games planned...

January 3DS game from Nintendo might well be Daigassou Band Brothers, which is not exactly a B-tier release, given the sales of the second one and the cult following it has.

But if you look at Jan-Feb sales of AC: Wild World in 2006, maybe you find a reason why Nintendo is being conservative with the line-up in the next months :P
enishi
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(12-13-2012, 09:08 AM)

Originally Posted by StreetsAhead

Still hoping for a post-Christmas Nintendo Direct. We've had one every 2 months for this year to detail the next two months of releases. I'm still (foolishly, maybe) expecting Game & Wario in January, but maybe February.

If there was a Nintendo Direct, it would be probably held next week. Post Christmas is too close to the long new year holiday in Japan that any pre-order can only start in 5 or 6th Jan. That's almost zero time to get the right amount of stock.
Celine
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(12-13-2012, 09:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Regulus Tera

The handheld war has been utterly disappointing. :/ No resistance whatsoever against Nintendo.

Why disappointment? History teaches use the opposite.
Only PSP really opposed any kind of meaningful resistance against the current Nintendo handheld in the dedicated handheld space.
User Tron
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(12-13-2012, 09:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by staticneuron

My point as it has been all along is that they aren't taking significant losses on the Vita. That would change their behavior real quick. They seem to be steaming along a path that they have planned before hand.

Well they already did change: Lower forecast and and not giving out numbers. Even if Vita is a loss leader they won't tell. Vita is a failure so far and any negative news will only be another nail in the coffin. They know that and that's why they're so so shy with information.
Celine
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(12-13-2012, 09:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by staticneuron

Sony isn't shy about placing blame were blame is due.

Are we talking about the same manufacturer which , in a first as much as I remember, is combining sales of they old product line (PSP,PS2) to mask the disappointing sales of their last released system in their financial reports?
pieatorium
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(12-13-2012, 09:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Celine

Are we talking about the same manufacturer which , in a first as much as I remember, is combining sales of they old product line (PSP,PS2) to mask the disappointing sales of their last released system in their financial reports?

they did this long before the Vita, you don't remember "Playstation Family" from back when PS3 was strugling?

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