[Milhouse31]

You just need to come to terms with the cold, hard truth. You're killing the games industry. The real heroes like Projectjustice are out there keeping it afloat. He sees the big picture that you don't: he cares about people having jobs, not about simply buying disposable entertainment. You should reflect on this and start doing the right thing: only buying video game software at full MSRP.

Dude I go to the studio and give 5$ to everyone in the end credit ... That's how I like to roll

[Steve Youngblood]

Better yet I should just have some of my paycheck distributed to my favorite gaming companies. I mean, I need these guys to keep making my favorite videogames.

Dude I go to the studio and give 5$ to everyone in the end credit ... That's how I like to roll

See? That's how you consume products.

[-Winnie-]

Microsoft are probably going to try something similar, but then if they didn't... PS4 not being able to play used games if the competing console can could be a real drawback for consumers and put the PS4 at a real disadvantage.

[RooMHM]

Console manufacturers are the cancer of video games.

[Vice]

I dislike this talk of anti-used game technology. I have the right to sell my copy of a game, once I've bought it, to anyone or any place I want. The video game industry has to learn to live with that fact the same way the book, movie and music industry did.

[Alligatorjandro]

If this is true I wont buy anymore Sony consoles.

[BradleyLove]

You're assuming retailers would be willing to drop prices within "a few months". Having no second-hand market essentially puts us at the mercy of retailers.

They have to to get rid of stock. Games taking up shelf space costs money.

[Nilaul]

If this is true I wont buy anymore Sony consoles.

Wait a bit, the EU will save you (if your in EU)

[Donutta]

Having read the thread, there's a lot of talk of industry growth through support and used games being a cycle (buy used, trade in used, buy used, etc). It seems like not seeing the forest for the trees. I am looking at getting a Wii U right now, which also means I'm looking at my game collection and seeing what funds that purchase. If I wasn't able to trade in, I wouldn't get one. It's that simple. That means I am not in the ecosystem and I am not buying new games. It's how it has always been; I sell the games and systems I bought new to fund the games and systems I want to buy new. Without that extra funding, gaming is too expensive a hobby and I'll buy less.

[DieH@rd]

If MS and Sony implement this... it would be to gain few $ per game from Gamestop. Ordinary users will remain unaffected.


Gamestop earns billions with second hand game trade, and publishers/developers most surely want a piece of that pie.

[Neff]

I have to side with the evil corporations on this. You cannot go into next gen expecting to make a frequent habit of renting or buying/selling 2nd hand games of 20 hour length that look like SW1313 or Agni's Philosphy. The games industry literally, financially can't afford to let you do that. If you want next gen, you're going to have to pay for it beyond a hardware investment. That's the cold, hard truth of it.

[Steve Youngblood]

I have to side with the evil corporations on this. You cannot go into next gen expecting to make a frequent habit of renting or buying/selling 2nd hand games of 20 hour length that look like SW1313 or Agni's Philosphy. The games industry literally, financially can't afford to let you do that. If you want next gen, you're going to have to pay for it beyond a hardware investment. That's the cold, hard truth of it.

Or -- and I'm sure that this will need to be the case -- publishers will need to completely rethink their business model and not just adhere to the current one while half-assedly plugging the perceived holes they think are causing the ship to sink.

[BruceLeeRoy]

Do people moan this much about PC games? If 720 and Orbis don't allow you to play used games Ill just be more picky on the games I choose to buy. Demo's will become a bigger part of the deciding factor than before but thats all that will change.

[shinra-bansho]

I don't think any system like this would ever be implemented to completely block used game sales. The intent would be to monetize that trade.

Publishers see the revenue and margins places like GameStop are pulling in. And they want a slice.

it will still effect you if there are no used games on the market there is no reason for discounts on new games

I really don't see how one comes to that conclusion...

[gofreak]

Rumors of PS4 Restricting Used Games Send GameStop Stock Tumbling

GameStop's stock price closed lower by $1.30—a five percent loss overall—after word this morning that Sony had applied for a patent on technology that could restrict how used games are played on its next console.

...

Sorry? :/

But anyway, there are some analyst notes in there on this. None of them think anything much will come of this.

The news was enough for the gaming industry analyst Michael Pachter of Wedbush Securities to send a note to investors that, while acknowledging the patent filing, downplayed the idea Sony's next console would outright prohibit used or previously played games. "Sony benefits little from a unilateral decision to block games," he wrote. "The company's first party software sales represent less than 10 percent of overall sales on its consoles, and it is unlikely that blocking used games would result in a lift of more than 10 percent in new game sales. That means that Sony's sales would rise only marginally if the PS4 blocked used games." Moreover, "Sony would be materially hurt if its console blocked used games and competitor consoles from Microsoft and Nintendo did not," Pachter said.

Pachter says a "more rational view" is that the technology Sony has is meant to provide individual publishers with the means of blocking used games from the console, if they so choose. "Should a publisher be reckless enough to risk the wrath of its customers, Sony's ID matching technology would allow that publisher to create terms of use that are similar to a software license, rather than to a disc sale," he said. "We do not believe that either Sony or any publishers are currently foolhardy enough to take such a risk. "The news has negatively impacted GameStop shares, and we think the reaction is overblown," he added. Four other analysts, including Arvind Bhatia of Sterne Agee, sounded similar notes in memos to investors.

[Zoe]

it will still effect you if there are no used games on the market there is no reason for discounts on new games

Because used games are the sole reason retailers periodically try to dump stock.

[Pyronite]

I think the success of Steam* has shown us what an ecosystem without used games can do. It's good for the industry.

*And XBLA, PSN, mobile, and any other digital platform you can think of.

[Neff]

Or -- and I'm sure that this will need to be the case -- publishers will need to completely rethink their business model and not just adhere to the current one while half-assedly plugging the perceived holes they think are causing the ship to sink.

There's not a lot else they can do. Videogames make a ton of money, but it's still too niche a hobby to assume dropping prices will equal more spending. If you're strictly talking about the management side of things, ego and stupidity (of which there's a lot in gaming these days) will always continue to straightjacket otherwise fine businesses.

it will still effect you if there are no used games on the market there is no reason for discounts on new games

Discounts aren't incentives against used games, they're incentives for games that aren't selling.

[Nokagi]

I have to side with the evil corporations on this. You cannot go into next gen expecting to make a frequent habit of renting or buying/selling 2nd hand games of 20 hour length that look like SW1313 or Agni's Philosphy. The games industry literally, financially can't afford to let you do that. If you want next gen, you're going to have to pay for it beyond a hardware investment. That's the cold, hard truth of it.

Eh I'd argue they will actually lose money by doing something like this. Fewer people buying the console. Fewer games sold. Local rental stores and big chains such as Gamefly and Redbox no longer buying all those copies. No more people going to Gamestop to trade in games to buy a new one. People like me who buy new but sell after finishing to get money for the next game. Also they would probably need to cut the 59.99 price tag down. I dunno I just don't see it as a win for them.

[Agent Unknown]

This thread caused GS stock to fall? Wow, gofreak really is GAF's Bob Woodward.

Anyways, definitely a no buy for me if either MS or Sony do this. A former co-worker of mine insisted he would just go PC/Nintendo if this happens.

[Satchel]

I rarely if ever buy second hand games so this doesn't really phase me.

as a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time I borrowed a game either.

still a dick move.

[8byte]

Something like this is already in place with their Disc Benefits (getting vita version free). Only works once, you DL the stuff. Very easy for them to do this for other things, i.e. online passes, or simply unlocking the game for that account once used. Obviously this requires an internet connection, but still. I can see them hiding things behind this.

[Minions]

Not a fan. If Sony chooses to go this route I will not be supporting them (and I love my PS3). The fact that I may have to (worst case) buy an entirely new library if my PS4 dies on me blows my mind.

Best case? Oh my console failed, pay $10x30 PS4 games to re-unlock all of them for use on your "new" console.

The only case I see me being supportive is if they are doing this ONLY for "beta" versions of the games, in order to prevent the sharing of the game between multiple people.

Honestly.... between this, and how they are treating the Vita.... I don't think Sony should be releasing another console any time soon.

[2real4tv]

I wonder if this will have any negative lash back from used game retailers. What if they decide not to carry Sony products? It would be nice if retailers would just pay out some sort of percentage fee to devs for each game sold imo. But maybe that just complicates things more...I dunno.

[Eusis]

I think the success of Steam* has shown us what an ecosystem without used games can do. It's good for the industry. *And XBLA, PSN, mobile, and any other digital platform you can think of.

Steam I think showed more how to repair a consumer unfriendly ecosystem for product protection (requiring CD keys, having DRM that can fuck with a computer). Instead Steam goes with milder DRM using strong online services and your collection as sort of blackmailing you into not hacking and abusing it, basically creating a trade off that makes it worth it for consumers while protecting publishers/developers more.

Used isn't that same kind of threat though, as noted you NEED to buy new copies for there to be used copies, whereas a single pirated game can turn into an infinite amount of illegitimate copies. Then there's how limp GameStop's discount really is, how they use this system to also generate more new sales, and the fact it's probably at its most "harmful" when a publisher doesn't print the game anymore anyway.

[Zizbuka]

I'm all for anything that hurts gamestop, but imagine if this was in place during the RROD fiasco.

[SpinDasher]

This is worst than region locking.

No shit.

I will not touch either console within the first 3yrs of their lifecycle if this is implemented, fuck that. I'll be just fine with my Wii U and my other consoles with their backlogs. I'll wait for them to get cheap, and for the good games to become cheap. Or hope the entire community flips their shit, and gets them to remove the restriction(not likely).

[gatti-man]

I wonder if this will have any negative lash back from used game retailers. What if they decide not to carry Sony products? It would be nice if retailers would just pay out some sort of percentage fee to devs for each game sold imo. But maybe that just complicates things more...I dunno.

That won't affect Sony at all. GameStop is a leach on gaming. It isn't a facilitator at all. Anywhere there is a GameStop there is a target/Walmart/bb

[PSGames]

I still can't believe they're even considering something like this. The backlash from retailers alone would be huge, not to mention all the bad press they would get. I only buy games new but this is still indefensible. Not even being able to borrow a game from a friend is insane.

They could potentially limit this to 'x' number of consoles/gamer tags. Which would still constrain the used market because one copy of a game could only be sold 'x' number of times.

[lexi]

I'm for this. Gamestop will go out of business as well any other leeches.

It will eventually mean region neutral pricing and possibly cheaper prices for new games.

[Plinko]

I'm for this. Gamestop will go out of business as well any other leeches. It will eventually mean region neutral pricing and possibly cheaper prices for new games.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[BurnOutBrighter]

Console manufacturers are the new cellphone carriers.

[Zoe]

I'm for this. Gamestop will go out of business as well any other leeches. It will eventually mean region neutral pricing and possibly cheaper prices for new games.

Regional pricing has nothing to do with used games.

[DarkFlow]

I don't play MP so I wouldn't object to a solution like that.

These comments are dumb. Just because you don't do something means its okay for everyone else to suffer? Talk about selfish.

[lexi]

Regional pricing has nothing to do with used games.

I know, however regional prices are influenced by local retailers, who will go out of business when they're unable to suck on the used games teat.

[Rat Salad]

I still can't believe they're even considering something like this. The backlash from retailers alone would be huge, not to mention all the bad press they would get. I only buy games new but this is still indefensible. Not even being able to borrow a game from a friend is insane.

Its greed and arrogance that even makes them think they can get away with this. But you know what...let them do it. We'll see how bad the bleeding goes. If one of the console makers bows out,or even all 3, then lesson learned. You do not fuck a consumer by trying to tell them how to spend their money.

[Death Dealer]

I wonder if it could be time based ?

So the publisher could choose, for the first 30 days or 90 days or whatever, to make used copies not work, but after some time period, they will.

[Kenai]

And I thought removing PS2 BC way back when was bad. Brave new world.

On the one hand, this is pretty outrageous and I'm a little miffed at the corporate sheep in this thread who don't seem to care just because they think it's not going to affect them, because it will, indirectly or not.

On the other hand, I really want to see the full extent of the backlash this will bring, especially if MS doesn't follow suit. I'm personally betting on it being swift, brutal, and devastating, and it will be completely deserved. I will feel zero pity for Sony or anyone else who tries this crap and then crashes and burns, because any semblance of the company I once loved will be completely gone by that point. It will also make an excellent case study, and the Wii U already being released (and the PC of course) means I will have options even if MS tries this also.

[Rat Salad]

No shit. I will not touch either console within the first 3yrs of their lifecycle if this is implemented, fuck that. I'll be just fine with my Wii U and my other consoles with their backlogs. I'll wait for them to get cheap, and for the good games to become cheap. Or hope the entire community flips their shit, and gets them to remove the restriction(not likely).

Same here. We all have backlogs from hell to enjoy so if the worst should happen, we can take a stance and just enjoy what we already have while giving these guys the finger. And lets not forget our IOS devices. They already detract from our console playing,atleast it does mine. We could walk away and spend lots of time with our console back logs and IOS/Androids.

[ViewtifulJC]

Sony had a good run, ya'll

[DonMigs85]

ID-tagged gamers own ID-tagged consoles, play ID-tagged games. Gaming has changed.

Amazing

[Jack_AG]

Sony had a good run, ya'll

They will suffer the same fate PC gaming did when it turned on the DRM.

*Looks at gaming rig*

HAHAHA! Yeah. Nothing is going to change.

[I H8 Memes]

Sony had a good run, ya'll

There's no way Sony does this if the newest MS console isnt going to do it too.

[Claymores]

Sony really trying to kill their own business aren't they, PS4 has this in built and the nextbox doesn't I'd pick the nextbox without doubt.

[Brad Grenz]

Microsoft are probably going to try something similar, but then if they didn't... PS4 not being able to play used games if the competing console can could be a real drawback for consumers and put the PS4 at a real disadvantage.

I agree that if one goes forward with anti-used tech, it means both are, but if indeed one didn't you have to consider publisher support as a factor. What if EA and Ubisoft only support the console that blocks used sales? How far can a system that allows resale of games get without Madden and Assassin's Creed?

[Karak]

I agree that if one goes forward with anti-used tech, it means both are, but if indeed one didn't you have to consider publisher support as a factor. What if EA and Ubisoft only support the console that blocks used sales? How far can a system that allows resale of games get without Madden and Assassin's Creed?

Incorrect on MS doing it.
There are also specific hardware changes that need to be put into place to use a DRM like those being mentioned and patented. You can't just put it into a system without thought. Ideally this would actually stop other companies from doing it to capture the sway of gamers.

If someone does do this though we need a grassroots campaign of information. This information will not get out to many buying a PS4 for a Christmas gift.

[Brad Grenz]

Incorrect on MS doing it. There are also specific hardware changes that need to be put into place to use a DRM like those being mentioned and patented. You can't just put it into a system without thought. Ideally this would actually stop other companies from doing it to capture the sway of gamers. If someone does do this though we need a grassroots campaign of information. This information will not get out to many buying a PS4 for a Christmas gift.

The implementation may be different but there's no reason to believe MS hasn't already been planning some kind of anti-used tech all along. Both Sony and MS would be reacting to pressure from large publishers.

[Pristine_Condition]

Sorry, but there are plenty of people who wish to not have to buy four hour games at $60 a pop.

Nobody is making anyone buy anything under any circumstance--except yourself, if you can't control your impulse buying.

You're assuming retailers would be willing to drop prices within "a few months". Having no second-hand market essentially puts us at the mercy of retailers.

Unless you just have a bit of self-control and don't buy them until it's a cost/entertainment value ratio that makes sense.

I really don't understand this argument coming from someone who is not a spoiled child whose parents haven't given them the reality check. (I'm assuming you are an adult.) You don't have to have every game "within a few months." You don't even have to have every really good game in the first year it comes out, even.

Nobody can make you buy any game but yourself.

[Karak]

The implementation may be different but there's no reason to believe MS hasn't already been planning some kind of anti-used tech all along. Both Sony and MS would be reacting to pressure from large publishers.

Ok :) As I said elsewhere, the person who informed me of all the announcements that I posted about in the last couple weeks and that just happened, stated no. Could be they are wrong about that one thing I guess but it was one of the things I made sure to ask.

I wonder if it could be time based ? So the publisher could choose, for the first 30 days or 90 days or whatever, to make used copies not work, but after some time period, they will.

Actually thats an interesting idea.

I'm for this. Gamestop will go out of business as well any other leeches. It will eventually mean region neutral pricing and possibly cheaper prices for new games.

I read this as Neural pricing:) I was like...damn thats a tech jump.

[LiveFromKyoto]

I really want to be excited about the PS4, but this would be such an anti-consumer move it's hard to get behind. No BC would be a bummer too.