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AdrianWerner
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Withnail

The PC is dying outside of businesses and a relatively small enthusiast crowd. This is Valve making sure they stay relevant and attempting to grab a place under the TV.

Yeah, by getting into console market, which is crumbling ten times faster than PC one...
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by SapientWolf

It's not a "stupid beef" It's smart long term thinking. MS could pull the plug on the Steambox any time they wanted to. Or at least make things very difficult for Valve.

How could they "pull the plug"?

Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

Steam Linux is still in beta; everything HIB should be on there for example, and I can't see any problems with the OSX titles being ported too.

If this is being treated as a new platform however, it's not what is currently available that is important, it is future support.



I dunno, most PC users have a bunch of other crap running in the background while they game. I agree that a reference model level of hardware would be a good thing though.



I was.

If it's coming out this year then I think it needs more than the nonexistent current support instead of the magical "future support", it's just not very encouraging at all.
Vesper73
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:53 PM)
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...I'm all in... /pushes chips
TucoBenedictoPacifico
Banned
(01-05-2013, 09:54 PM)

Originally Posted by DarkFlow

You also have to remember that dell and hp most likely have great deals going with intel and others for parts. Valve is not going to have that kind of deal. Plus they now need someone like Foxconn to put this together for them. Selling this thing under $800 dollars would be a massive loss on each box, plus if it has the hardware I guessed at and they do sell it at crazy low prices, I might just buy one and throw windows on it since it would be cheaper then building it myself. They just took a hit and got nothing back in return.

Seriously, where are you getting all these info?
You surely like to make a lot of assumptions, given how little we actually know about this thing, its hardware specifics, the deals they have in place and so on.
Krowley
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(01-05-2013, 09:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rad-

Pretty much my question. Console gamers don't drool for Valve and thus won't really care for this (unless it's cheap which I doubt it is) and PC gamers will own a gaming PC anyway. Casuals will probably never even hear of Steambox.

In the short term, they're saying, "here's a new console, from a totally new company, to compete in the next generation, and here is our killer-app" *unveils amazing footage of HL3, and shows why the steambox is the best place to play HL3 if you're a fan of the franchise*

They'll also be targeting lapsed PC gamers who've fallen off the upgrade wagon, but love HL and valve, and they'll be trying to get as much PC game support as possible in the long term: companies like blizzard and etc..

Also, it would make sense for them to have some kind of interface solution for mouse/keyboard based games that's extremely couch friendly, which could help drive ports of older games to the system.
Eideka
Banned
(01-05-2013, 09:55 PM)

Originally Posted by Saty

Don't see Valve keeping their games out from 720\PS4.

Then that makes no sense, who is going to buy a Valve console if their big games are to be found on another console ?
ArjanN
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:55 PM)
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This sounds essentially just like a pre-built PC wth less options. And Linux.

Doesn't seem like it would benefit reallly anything to someone who was already gaming on PC.
GK86
Homeland Security Fail
(01-05-2013, 09:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

Seriously, where are you getting all these info?
You surely like to make a lot of assumptions, given how little we actually know about this thing, its hardware specifics, the deals they have in place and so on.

GAF's armchair CEO's are the best, man.
Vesper73
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by nubbe

I don't get the Linux hate

Valve might also be working on a directx to opengl wrapper and binary translator.

In my mind this is a given, and I think will be the true megaton.
MrNyarlathotep
I find your lack of holistic synergy overviews disturbing
(01-05-2013, 09:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zaraki_Kenpachi

If it's coming out this year then I think it needs more than the nonexistent current support instead of the magical "future support", it's just not very encouraging at all.

How many hardware platforms did you have a list of ~40 confirmed launch titles before the hardware was officially announced?
TucoBenedictoPacifico
Banned
(01-05-2013, 09:56 PM)

Originally Posted by ArjanN

This sounds essentially just like a pre-built PC wth less options. And Linux.

Doesn't seem like it would benefit reallly anything to someone who was already gaming on PC.

Incidentally, at the same time it also sounds like a console with exponentially more options.
Conor 419
Banned
(01-05-2013, 09:57 PM)

Originally Posted by AdrianWerner

Yeah, by getting into console market, which is crumbling ten times faster than PC one...

....?
Giant Panda
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:57 PM)
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I don't see the point of this product from what we know currently.
AdrianWerner
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(01-05-2013, 09:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

Incidentally, at the same time it also sounds like a console with exponentially more options.

It does? Exactly how?
Corto
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:58 PM)
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"Now it's on!"
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

How many hardware platforms did you have a list of ~40 confirmed launch titles before the hardware was officially announced?

What confirmed launch titles?
diffusionx
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:58 PM)

Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

Incidentally, at the same time it also sounds like a console with exponentially more options.

The issue is price, I don't think Valve can release a PC that is competitive with console price while offering those options.

As an example, Dell is a huge company, they get their components at huge discounts, but the X51 is far more expensive than a console. Valve can't beat Dell on pricing. Plus consoles are heavily subsidized at launch.
AdrianWerner
Member
(01-05-2013, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Conor 419

....?

PCgaming is growing and the hardcore enthusiast part of it is the fastest growing segment of it.

Meanwhile consoles revenues are crumbling. I don't expect consoles to survive more than one more generation, maybe two.
Baconsammy
Banned
(01-05-2013, 09:59 PM)

Originally Posted by AdrianWerner

Yeah, by getting into console market, which is crumbling ten times faster than PC one...

360 and PS3 both at about 70 million each, Wii doing 95 million. Yeah, not crumbling at all.
MrNyarlathotep
I find your lack of holistic synergy overviews disturbing
(01-05-2013, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zaraki_Kenpachi

What confirmed launch titles?

http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/

EDIT:

Originally Posted by diffusionx

The issue is price, I don't think Valve can release a PC that is competitive with console price while offering those options.

As an example, Dell is a huge company, they get their components at huge discounts, but the X51 is far more expensive than a console. Valve can't beat Dell on pricing. Plus consoles are heavily subsidized at launch.


As someone else already posted;
Dells business is selling computers.
Valves business is selling software.

The Kindle undercut everyone at launch by basically selling at cost, because it was a good way to promote access to its real revenue streams; the Amazon store.
Android is given away free because it is a good way to promote Googles real revenue streams; its targetted ad sales.

Steambox could be sold at cost because...?
Last edited by MrNyarlathotep; 01-05-2013 at 10:03 PM.
Saty
Member
(01-05-2013, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Eideka

Then that makes no sense, who is going to buy a Valve console if their big games are to be found on another console ?

Potentially because Steambox will offer services and features that the 720\PS4 won't.
And you get all the exclusives the PC has. Why wouldn't the average PS3\360 user want to play the varied amount of PC exclusive he always thought it would be cool to try but wouldn't because he isn't going to build a PC for them?
Big Takeover
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(01-05-2013, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by AdrianWerner

Yeah, by getting into console market, which is crumbling ten times faster than PC one...

At least they get to control their own destiny this way. The ship is definitely sinking. They'll need to do something.
injurai
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(01-05-2013, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Wazzim

Is Linux able to DirectX?

nope, not without Wine or something which shouldn't be used.

all it would take is developing Linux compatible graphical APIs for linux, but DX has set a golden standard thus far.
Neuromancer
The Mayuh of f'n Bawston
(01-05-2013, 10:01 PM)
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Holy shit. Is this real life?
TucoBenedictoPacifico
Banned
(01-05-2013, 10:01 PM)

Originally Posted by AdrianWerner

It does? Exactly how?

It's a PC-in-a-box that (supposedly) allows you to install any software available on Linux, if not even a Windows partition. Plus the eventuality (far from being remote) of a dedicated user base who would develop extra utilities specifically aimed to it, like the early PS3-linux stuff before they locked it down.

How is that NOT more open than any other console on the market, exactly?
There are even (unconfirmed) rumors about modular hardware, which while probably superfluous would be pretty much icing the cake.
Last edited by TucoBenedictoPacifico; 01-05-2013 at 10:04 PM.
zoku88
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(01-05-2013, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/

You know, technically Linux-based could mean that they are just using the Linux kernel. The userland could be totally different from a GNU/Linux distro, s.t. those binaries would be incompatible.

They could also not be using an x86 chip.

Would they do that, probably not. But they've hardly said anything...
benny_a
extra source of jiggaflops
(01-05-2013, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

How many hardware platforms did you have a list of ~40 confirmed launch titles before the hardware was officially announced?

PS2 with PS1 compatibility. PS3 with PS2 compatibility. GameBoy Color. Surely if you can count already released games for an upcoming platform, so can others.
Last edited by benny_a; 01-05-2013 at 10:03 PM.
AdrianWerner
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(01-05-2013, 10:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Baconsammy

360 and PS3 both at about 70 million each, Wii doing 95 million. Yeah, not crumbling at all.

Longest gen ever and yet not even one platform has come remotely close to PSX or PS2 numbers. And look at NPD reports, each month the picture they paint is grimmer and grimmer.

Saying consoles are doing better than PCs is just plain silly.
SolarPowered
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(01-05-2013, 10:01 PM)
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Steambox target: Current console gamers, lapsed console gamers and PC gamers.

Valve's selling policy: Trump pirates by making games as easy as possible to deliver software to consumers.

Valve's favorite way to make cash: Make bucketloads of cash by selling software.

Linux: They can't put their machine's future in the hands of Microsoft when they don't give a shit about the PC platform when it comes to gaming.

It's not that hard, guys. I'm sure I've made a mistake or two in my post, but their reasons and plan of attack aren't an absolute mystery or completely misguided. There is a growing audience of gamers that want their games fast, cheap, user friendly and in great working condition. Steam has excelled at making the gaming experience as good as possible in all these categories and it has attracted tens of millions to them. Getting that Steam experience all into one box easier to use than a console is a very enticing idea if they can stuff high quality parts in there without breaking our wallets.
GalacticSushiman
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(01-05-2013, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolarPowered

Steambox target: gamers.

Fixed :)
Zaraki_Kenpachi
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(01-05-2013, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

http://store.steampowered.com/browse/linux/

LOL, so what you meant to say is 40 shitty indie game ports that you could play for years before now? Ya, what a HUGE launch! Valve is making it and the only game they made that they could be bothered to port is TF2, why isn't their whole collection on it? Again, when they even get a single major release then I'll be more impressed than the absolutely nothing they have now. Some of those games were already released as a linux version on those indie dev's website, steam didn't create linux in case you didn't know. That's like saying if this was using windows that "What other system has THOUSANDS OF GAMES as launch titles??????", you couldn't be more misleading.
Krowley
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(01-05-2013, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Saty

Potentially because Steambox will offer services and features that the 720\PS4 won't.
And you get all the exclusives the PC has. Why wouldn't the average PS3\360 user want to play the varied amount of PC exclusive he always thought it would be cool to try but wouldn't because he isn't going to build a PC for them?

I still doubt that valve software will show up on other consoles. They would be stupid to do that. If they put their own software on other consoles then this thing will be doomed, and they will know that. PC support will continue, but supporting other consoles will have to stop. Surely.

You need exclusives of some sort to drive hardware sales. If valve are too scared to put their chips in at least a little, this thing has no chance.
AdrianWerner
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(01-05-2013, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

It's a PC-in-a-box that (supposedly) allows you to install any software available on Linux, if not even a Windows partition. Plus the eventually (far from being remote) of a dedicated user base who would develop extra utilities specifically aimed to it, like the early PS3-linux stuff before they locked it down.

I doubt that's what's going to happen and even if by miracle it does, all I see is a device that doesn't excel in anything, like PCs or real consoles do.
Woo-Fu
incest on the subway
(01-05-2013, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fantastical

What developer is going to port their old games to Linux for basically what amounts to no money?

Why ask a silly question? If the porting cost isn't worth the benefit then they won't do it.

That estimation will have to be done on a game by game basis, by people who presumably have more accurate figures to work with than "no money".

Originally Posted by AdrianWerner

I doubt that's what's going to happen and even if by miracle it does, all I see is a device that doesn't excel in anything, like PCs or real consoles do.

Been over a decade since a console excelled at anything.
TucoBenedictoPacifico
Banned
(01-05-2013, 10:05 PM)

Originally Posted by AdrianWerner

I doubt that's what's going to happen

But that's exactly what every single rumor told us so far.
So, speculations for speculations, why not to go with what we heard, instead of going with what you fear?
Conor 419
Banned
(01-05-2013, 10:05 PM)

Originally Posted by AdrianWerner

PCgaming is growing and the hardcore enthusiast part of it is the fastest growing segment of it.

Meanwhile consoles revenues are crumbling. I don't expect consoles to survive more than one more generation, maybe two.

Cool, most successful console generation ever, and of course the 'console market is crumbling'.

Next gen consoles probably going to be even more successful, with large ventures into casual gaming, multimedia services, and the likely explosion of the MMO, RTS and MOBLA genres on Next gen systems.

Longest gen ever and yet not even one platform has come remotely close to PSX or PS2 numbers

Bar the Nintendo DS, of course.
Lynn616
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(01-05-2013, 10:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Saty

Potentially because Steambox will offer services and features that the 720\PS4 won't.
And you get all the exclusives the PC has. Why wouldn't the average PS3\360 user want to play the varied amount of PC exclusive he always thought it would be cool to try but wouldn't because he isn't going to build a PC for them?

Last thing Valve wants to do is fight Microsoft with exclusives. MS will just start buying up exclusives. Hell they might just buy EA and call it a day. If Microsoft saw the SteamBox as a threat.
AdrianWerner
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(01-05-2013, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

But that's exactly what every single rumor told us so far.
So, speculations for speculations, why not to go with what we heard, instead of what you fear?

If it won't be closed down, then don't expect it to be cheap, it will be expensive like hell, especially since rumors also say it won't be Valve who will be making Steamboxes.
Lingitiz
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(01-05-2013, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zaraki_Kenpachi

LOL, so what you meant to say is 40 shitty indie game ports that you could play for years before now? Ya, what a HUGE launch! Valve is making it and the only game they made that they could be bothered to port is TF2, why isn't their whole collection on it? Again, when they even get a single major release then I'll be more impressed than the absolutely nothing they have now. Some of those games were already released as a linux version on those indie dev's website, steam didn't create linux in case you didn't know. That's like saying if this was using windows that "What other system has THOUSANDS OF GAMES as launch titles??????", you couldn't be more misleading.

It's still very early and this box isn't even formally announced yet. Things could change very quickly.

Also, Serious Sam 3, FTL, and Killing Floor are not some shitty indie games.
MrNyarlathotep
I find your lack of holistic synergy overviews disturbing
(01-05-2013, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by benny_a

PS2 with PS1 compatibility. PS3 with PS2 compatibility. GameBoy Color. Surely if you can count already released games for an upcoming platform, so can others.

what is this i dont even

Originally Posted by Zaraki_Kenpachi

LOL, so what you meant to say is 40 shitty indie game ports that you could play for years before now? Ya, what a HUGE launch! Valve is making it and the only game they made that they could be bothered to port is TF2, why isn't their whole collection on it? Again, when they even get a single major release then I'll be more impressed than the absolutely nothing they have now. Some of those games were already released as a linux version on those indie dev's website, steam didn't create linux in case you didn't know. That's like saying if this was using windows that "What other system has THOUSANDS OF GAMES as launch titles??????", you couldn't be more misleading.

Wow, read the thread already.
Krowley
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(01-05-2013, 10:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by zoku88

You know, technically Linux-based could mean that they are just using the Linux kernel. The userland could be totally different from a GNU/Linux distro, s.t. those binaries would be incompatible.

Agreed.

I don't think this will be a linux PC any more than android phones are linux PCs. It will be a gaming machine with a linux-based OS at the core. You won't even be aware you're using linux when you use it.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
(01-05-2013, 10:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lingitiz

It's still very early and this box isn't even formally announced yet. Things could change very quickly.

Also, Serious Sam 3, FTL, and Killing Floor are not some shitty indie games.

You can argue about quality, I'm not saying all of them are bad but they certainly are indie games and a box that plays indie games will not be sustainable if that's all it's going to play.

Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

what is this i dont even



Wow, read the thread already.

Why don't you respond to my points instead of a shitty vague response? You're the one with the statement that what other console could have 40 launch titles before it's announced and then linked to linux compatible games. You refuse to respond after I called you out on your crazy comment?
Last edited by Zaraki_Kenpachi; 01-05-2013 at 10:10 PM.
benny_a
extra source of jiggaflops
(01-05-2013, 10:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by MrNyarlathotep

what is this i dont even

So when it's ports and old games on the Steambox they are the impressive launch line-up.

But when it's ports and old games on 3DS, PS2, PS3, GBA then it's "what is this i dont even."

Good stuff.
Conor 419
Banned
(01-05-2013, 10:09 PM)

Originally Posted by benny_a

So when it's ports and old games on the Steambox they are the impressive launch line-up.

But when it's ports and old games on 3DS, PS2, PS3, GBA then it's "what is this i dont even."

Good stuff.

'but Football Manager 04!'
TucoBenedictoPacifico
Banned
(01-05-2013, 10:10 PM)

Originally Posted by AdrianWerner

If it won't be closed down, then don't expect it to be cheap

Beside the fact that I have no clue of what to expect in terms of hardware and price, that's another non sequitur.
If anything, being assembled out of common, widely available PC parts would make it more cheap -at performance parity- than hardware specifically designed for a new console.
Zia
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(01-05-2013, 10:10 PM)
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So, there seems to be a lot of negativity about what market this would cater to. My question is, don't you think Valve knows exactly what market this caters to? I don't really understand what they're doing yet, but I'd imagine they do.
Last edited by Zia; 01-05-2013 at 10:18 PM.
Lingitiz
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(01-05-2013, 10:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Conor 419

Cool, most successful console generation ever, and of course the 'console market is crumbling'.

Next gen consoles probably going to be even more successful, with large ventures into casual gaming, multimedia services, and the likely explosion of the MMO, RTS and MOBLA genres on Next gen systems.



Bar the Nintendo DS, of course.

This just isn't going to happen, those genres aren't friendly to the closed system that MS and Sony operate. Control scheme is a problem as well. Unless these things ship with something as fast and responsive as a keyboard, they'll never take off. Recently launched stuff like DOTA2 and LOL are popular because they play well and are free to play.

I assume what he means is we've had 3 lackluster platform launches in the Vita, 3DS, and WiiU. Surely not signs for panic, but I see where he's coming from. It's hard to predict who's going to be successful going forward since things have flip-flopped so much from generation to generation.
AHA-Lambda
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(01-05-2013, 10:10 PM)
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Well if somehow Valve can make the existing library of Steam work on this thing then they can have my money day one, but if not... =/
TabrisRyu
Junior Member
(01-05-2013, 10:10 PM)
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I could see this working, if you have the steambox you can download hl3 or other games for free or have special discounts that don't apply to PC steam. This solves the alienation problem. Valve must have the majority of the steam games ported to linux already, if not this is suicide.
AdrianWerner
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(01-05-2013, 10:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by TucoBenedictoPacifico

If anything, common, widely available PC parts would make it more cheap -at performance parity- than hardware specifically designed for a new console.

Umm..no. Console companies can allow to sell below cost and order the parts in quanities beyond anything Steambox will ever be able to sell. So no, it will be a lot more expensive than console of similiar power level

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