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tipoo
Banned
(01-16-2013, 06:08 PM)
Some big announcement regarding the Playstation brand coming at E3 or earlier

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/16/s...playstation-4/
daoster
Member
(01-16-2013, 06:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by tzare

but vita does not, and most smartphones or tablets or tv's don't have it either. It is really a matter of cost, no sure how much would mean adding it for each system, and do not really see what is so special that can be done with it that would justify that cost.

I would say most half-way decent Android phone and tablet from here on out are going to have NFC.

And NFC is pretty cheap!
SniperHunter
Member
(01-16-2013, 06:11 PM)
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I wonder if Killzone 4 or whatever will look as good as Planetside 2 on ultra? I hope SOE is sharing some of their lighting and motion blur tech with the other, "first party" teams.

Damn I can't wait for next gen! Been playing a lot of Killzone lately, I love this series <3
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
(01-16-2013, 06:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by tipoo

Some big announcement regarding the Playstation brand coming at E3 or earlier

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/16/s...playstation-4/

That's about a week old.
Ravage
Member
(01-16-2013, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by tzare

but vita does not, and most smartphones or tablets or tv's don't have it either. It is really a matter of cost, no sure how much would mean adding it for each system, and do not really see what is so special that can be done with it that would justify that cost.

I'm pretty sure most of the smartphones released this year will come with a NFC chip included. With a biennial refresh cycle, it won't be long before the tech gains widespread adoption.
tzare
Member
(01-16-2013, 06:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by spwolf

i dont think you understand what NFC is... it is not there to replace wifi and bt, it is there to make it easier to use. Tap phone to dual schock and play a video or music on your PS3... whats bad about that? it is dead cheap too.

All of Sony's 2013 phones will have NFC and their Bravia TVs.

The PS4 is going all the way to 2023. Not having NFC and Miracast would be stupid.

I own a xperia T . NFC enabled. never used it. Miracast uses wifi, so i guess just pairing via BT would get the job done. Obviously NFC is easier but also needs time to be found on all tvs and phones.
Not that i do not want it, i just don't know if the cost of it, even if it is small, it is worth.

I'm pretty sure most of the smartphones released this year will come with a NFC chip included. With a biennial refresh cycle, it won't be long before the tech gains widespread adoption.

sure, many smartphone users will have NFC, even if most of them will never use the feature or even own a ps4 . Don't get me wrong, i want ps4 to be miracast compatible, but i guess that can be done without NFC too. But if is so cheap, i wonder why even iphone 5 does not include it.
Last edited by tzare; 01-16-2013 at 06:17 PM.
Psychotext
Member
(01-16-2013, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

Compared to PS3, yes. Faster drive. However, it may remain the same cause the quality/size will also increase.

I'd put money on no. Whilst the drive will likely triple in speed, there could potentially be 8x the memory to fill.

I expect installs... though I hope they're in the background.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
(01-16-2013, 06:26 PM)
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The best killer app for Sony next gen is to keep PSN free with all the added functions, like XGC, party chat, background download, etc... All free. Thatīs how can Sony compete with the Durango in the US and WW.
Graphics Horse
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(01-16-2013, 06:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kazuma Kiryu

LittleBigPlanet 3 - depends on what MM is doing with their R&D project

Unless LBP is a drastic change it would probably be by another studio like with the Vita one.

Whoops I didn't realise I was replying to a day old post, sorry.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
(01-16-2013, 06:29 PM)
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Sony should hold 2 conferences at E3. One for Orbis, and one for PS3 and Vita (mostly Vita)
televator
Member
(01-16-2013, 06:32 PM)
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Okay, now I get what NFC could do. It sounds really cool. Now I kinda wish everything had it. Thanks for explaining, GAF.
Ravage
Member
(01-16-2013, 06:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by tzare

I own a xperia T . NFC enabled. never used it. Miracast uses wifi, so i guess just pairing via BT would get the job done. Obviously NFC is easier but also needs time to be found on all tvs and phones.
Not that i do not want it, i just don't know if the cost of it, even if it is small, it is worth.


sure, many smartphone users will have NFC, even if most of them will never use the feature or even own a ps4 . Don't get me wrong, i want ps4 to be miracast compatible, but i guess that can be done without NFC too. But if is so cheap, i wonder why even iphone 5 does not include it.

Hm...i guess you have a point there. Does anyone here know how much one of these chips cost?

It can't cost that much seeing how even Nintendo is including it in their gamepad :P
tzare
Member
(01-16-2013, 06:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ravage

Hm...i guess you have a point there. Does anyone here know how much one of these chips cost?

It can't cost that much seeing how even Nintendo is including it in their gamepad :P

good point :P But remember, wii U doesn't even have an ethernet port, and wii didn't play dvd videos nor have optical output, so it comes to choice when considering costs. I am not a NFC hater, just do not see the point,today and the next 2 years , and i hope they do put an ethernet port on ps4 and next xbox :P

I am also curious about how much would it cost to add NFC. I mean, the controller should have a nfc chip, and how about the console itself? would it need anything? because if it was the controller , that could be added later on, just like they added rumble xD
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(01-16-2013, 07:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ravage

Hm...i guess you have a point there. Does anyone here know how much one of these chips cost?

It can't cost that much seeing how even Nintendo is including it in their gamepad :P

It costs about a dollar to add to smartphones in terms of BoM and another dollar for licencing.
davious88
Banned
(01-16-2013, 07:03 PM)

Originally Posted by televator

What would NFC be used for On a playstation controller?

Again, say you have just downloaded Taylor Swift's 2013 album to your smartphone (trollface.jpg :D), you could tap the 'DS4' pad and play the album on your PS4. So to speak.

Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

It costs about a dollar to add to smartphones in terms of BoM and another dollar for licencing.

Don't Sony make NFC chips?, or are part of the NFC board? - they would probably save money somehow.
tzare
Member
(01-16-2013, 07:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by zomgbbqftw

It costs about a dollar to add to smartphones in terms of BoM and another dollar for licencing.

would the ps4 itself need extra hw or just the gamepad? i wonder if licencing would be tied to controllers or systems.

it is not much but again, probably would spend those dollars on some ram for the OS instead
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(01-16-2013, 07:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by davious88

Don't Sony make NFC chips?, or are part of the NFC board? - they would probably save money somehow.

Yes, they own the FeliCa standard, which they obviously would not have to licence and would be pennies to use. It is also part of the NFC standard. However for their non-Japanese products they use regular NFC chips bought from Broadcom or Qualcomm, I don't think they have to pay licence fees though. Octopus cards in HK use FeliCa and Oyster cards in London use a very similar standard.

NFC is a very, very low cost addition.
zomgbbqftw
Pay attention.
(01-16-2013, 07:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by tzare

would the ps4 itself need extra hw or just the gamepad? i wonder if licencing would be tied to controllers or systems.

it is not much but again, probably would spend those dollars on some ram for the OS instead

Probably the system since without the feature would be useless.

NFC adds a lot more to PS4 than you realise, with Miracast and NFC Sony can create a Wii U competitor for literally $5 in additional cost that will be compatible with all Android phones and tablets including their own Xperia products. Think Xbox Smartglass + Remote play + Wii U second screen using any Android tablet or phone that has the app and a Miracast chip.
Violater
Member
(01-16-2013, 07:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by davious88

Again, say you have just downloaded Taylor Swift's 2013 album to your smartphone (trollface.jpg :D), you could tap the 'DS4' pad and play the album on your PS4. So to speak.
.

i think you just described one of the things I hate about E3, when they spend 75% of the time demonstrating shit like that which I will never use.
danhese007
Member
(01-16-2013, 08:46 PM)
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Sony enabled an NFC card reader in Japan for PS3 in 2007 used for credit card payments via Felica Cards or Phone payment system. Nintendo has stated they will also be using Felica payment system via NFC on WiiU so I think DualShock 4 will have NFC built in.

Last edited by danhese007; 01-16-2013 at 08:53 PM.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
(01-16-2013, 08:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by danhese007

Sony enabled an NFC card reader in Japan for PS3 in 2007 so i think DualShock 4 will have NFC built in.

How is this my first time hearing about this?
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
(01-16-2013, 08:51 PM)
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VGleaks needs to come in with that new info asap, or else I'm gonna die from thirst.
danhese007
Member
(01-16-2013, 08:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Iacobellis

How is this my first time hearing about this?

People don't pay much attention to Sony news unless it is negative, I could be wrong though.
Psychotext
Member
(01-16-2013, 09:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by danhese007

People don't pay much attention to Sony news unless it is negative, I could be wrong though.

o....k....

Or, maybe it's a very niche usage item in a country that's foreign to most of us.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
(01-16-2013, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by danhese007

People don't pay much attention to Sony news unless it is negative, I could be wrong though.

Originally Posted by Psychotext

o....k....

Or, maybe it's a very niche usage item in a country that's foreign to most of us.

And this ladies and gentlemen, is how we separate the Junior Member from a Member.
Insane Metal
Received Internet Coal
(01-16-2013, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dark_AnNiaLatOr

VGleaks needs to come in with that new info asap, or else I'm gonna die from thirst.

Man, as much as I think it's really really wrong to have leaks, I'm also eager to know more :(
Raoh
Member
(01-16-2013, 09:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by danhese007

Sony enabled an NFC card reader in Japan for PS3 in 2007 used for credit card payments via Felica Cards or Phone payment system. Nintendo has stated they will also be using Felica payment system via NFC on WiiU so I think DualShock 4 will have NFC built in.

Interesting, it does fit in their "One Touch" NFC ecosystem they displayed at CES 2013.

I have a nexus 7 with nfc, I need to get some tags and play around with its possibilities.
shadowsdarknes
I'M STILL A JUNIOR
(01-16-2013, 09:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by shagg_187

Patents are created not because a product exists or will exist, but because in case they decide to make it, or in case they get sued cause their architecture/idea is similar to something else. It's also done to push the competition out. It's the same as cancelled projects; companies renew trademarks and what not. It's a way of futureproofing.

Example:



This was originally filed a while ago, but recently renewed. It doesn't mean Sony is going to make us do butterfly kicks.

Nice, you based your argument under the assumption that I am unaware of how and why patents are used.

With that said, your rebuttal and example are both poor because it makes sense for Sony to future-proof their architecture to prevent a possible legal suit from appearing and to prevent competitors from copying. On the other hand, yes you are correct that many patents are never used, however you have yet to present substantial evidence that supports your claim for the particular patent that I speculate will be in the PS4. Also, your example is negligible because it is not related to chip architecture.
danhese007
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(01-16-2013, 09:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Psychotext

o....k....

Or, maybe it's a very niche usage item in a country that's foreign to most of us.

Very true. I saw the article on Kotaku way back in 2007 and it just stayed with me so as soon as I saw this nfc talk, I went Googling for it. Japan (technology) is not foreign to any of us on Gaf. Every year we flock to CES where press conferences are held and technologies are shown by a lot of Japanese companies. We flock to E3 where two of the major console makers are Japanese and a lot of the game developers showing games are Japanese. We pay attention to TGS and other foreign game shows. For example, this product is one use case for nfc in an actual product Sony has released Vs Sony patenting another use case for nfc whereby an nfc tag is placed in every disc to fight used market sales. Which do you think gained more press coverage, hence "People don't pay much attention to Sony news unless it is negative" But yes, this is a niche product.
Last edited by danhese007; 01-16-2013 at 10:41 PM.
RaijinFY
Member
(01-17-2013, 02:58 AM)

Originally Posted by thuway

1. Heat
2. I think the website has miswritten. It's meant to write Pitcairn.
3. 1.84 TF is very close to the magical 2.5 TF number. It is 75% of the way there. We should be happy.

One thing should cleared right now, the 1.84T nnumber is only for the GPU, not for the whole system. You need to add CPU flops. Overall you will get a 2TF machine, at least if the current specs are respected.
Graphics Horse
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(01-17-2013, 05:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by coldfoot

Heard a new rumor about the PS4 gamepad from someone who works for a big developer who claims to have examined it:

1. PS Move tech built in
2. Has a trackpad in the middle
3. Controller ID shown in color (did not understand what this meant, waiting for clarification, either means multicolor LED's or a led display)
4. PS4 Coming December 2013 and games can use up to 100GB of data. Don't know if this means a different kind of blu-ray or just games that come on 2 blu-rays.

Here's my terrible ransom note of how I would picture such a thing. And don't tell me to swap the right stick with the buttons or you'll get a slap.
The color ID would be the color of the glowy balls, if that's still how the Move tech works, here it's using two small ones, with distance to the camera calculated by the gap between them and the angle sensors in the pad.

In the other thread I mentioned Sony's 'floating touch' tech featured in the Xperia Sola, which can detect your finger up to 2cm above the capacitive multi touch surface. I think being able to hover over the pad and have your thumb's position represented on the TV could be a useful feature for things like text input.

Originally Posted by Can Crusher

^Nightmares

Embrace the future!
Last edited by Graphics Horse; 01-17-2013 at 05:44 AM.
Can Crusher
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(01-17-2013, 05:20 AM)
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^Nightmares
prwxv3
Member
(01-17-2013, 05:27 AM)
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Doesn't sony place a absurd amount of patents they never even use?
Karak
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(01-17-2013, 05:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by prwxv3

Doesn't sony place a absurd amount of patents they never even use?

Ya but these companies would patent their shit if they felt that the corn design was unique.
ThisWreckage
Banned
(01-17-2013, 05:34 AM)
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I think that charging for PSN would be a tremendous misstep. They've got a golden goose with Playstation Plus and they should continue down that road.
MuseManMike
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(01-17-2013, 05:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by ThisWreckage

I think that charging for PSN would be a tremendous misstep. They've got a golden goose with Playstation Plus and they should continue down that road.

I think that charging for online MP would be a misstep for their consumers but not for profit margins. It might even help absorb a larger loss on each unit sold. But I hope they don't go that route as it would be an immediate deal-breaker. What they could do is keep a barebones PSN + free MP and charge for everything else like party chat, early demos, messaging, customization -- making it a no-brainer for heavy Playstation consumers to buy-in. All of this under the PS+ umbrella of free games.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(01-17-2013, 05:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Karak

Ya but these companies would patent their shit if they felt that the corn design was unique.

I'd love to see Sony's take on corn. I'm tired of looking at this:

Can Crusher
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(01-17-2013, 05:41 AM)
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Wanna talk about patents? Fucking Peugeut patented car names that have 3 numbers with 0 in the middle.

That's why Porshe Carrera 911 isn't called 901. Ain't that shit incredible?
weekend_warrior
Banned
(01-17-2013, 05:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Graphics Horse

Here's my terrible ransom note of how I would picture such a thing. And don't tell me to swap the right stick with the buttons or you'll get a slap.

This is a terrible thing you've created.
endlessflood
Member
(01-17-2013, 05:44 AM)

Originally Posted by ThisWreckage

I think that charging for PSN would be a tremendous misstep. They've got a golden goose with Playstation Plus and they should continue down that road.

How each company approaches the online side of things next gen will be interesting. I noticed today that bf3stats lists the online player base for the 3 platforms over the course of 2012:

Originally Posted by http://bf3stats.com/

In 2012 we recorded over 11.1 million players playing Battlefield 3.
3.3 million of them were watched on BF3Stats.com.

The strongest platform with over 4.4 million players recorded is PS3. Followed by XBOX360 with 3.6 million players and PC with 3.1 million players.
But interested in BF3Stats.com were mostly PC players with over 1.8 million players stored in our database(PS3: 880k, XBOX360: 620k).

Our database contains currently over 51 million history entries. About 15 entries per player.
About 30k dynamic stats graphics were rendered over 800 million times since start of BF3Stats.

If you like such facts, we post them from time to time on our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/BF3Stats

I'm not sure if similar data is available for other big online games, but that was a surprise to me. I know that BF3 has timed (2 week) exclusives on DLC for PS3, but that seems like a relatively minor thing to me. I would be interested to see what the actual sales were like across the two consoles. I can't help but wonder if maybe the fact that Sony online is free was the difference in terms of online player base here, so any changes on that front next gen from either manufacturer should be interesting.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
(01-17-2013, 05:45 AM)
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I feel like if Sony made any drastic changes to the DualShock, it would just tarnish it. It's so synonymous to PlayStation, ya know?
Graphics Horse
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(01-17-2013, 05:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by weekend_warrior

This is a terrible thing you've created.

I did warn you! You should never have scrolled down.

Originally Posted by Iacobellis

I feel like if Sony made any drastic changes to the DualShock, it would just tarnish it. It's so synonymous to PlayStation, ya know?

I know, but we've heard things about it being a 'radical departure'
Ashes
Member
(01-17-2013, 05:46 AM)
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The jaguar chip at CES was so small. I wonder whether we will get jaguar or steamroller.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(01-17-2013, 05:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ashes1396

The jaguar chip at CES was so small. I wonder whether we will get jaguar or steamroller.

I'm thinking it'll be Jaguar. I've heard a lot of good things about efficiency in Jaguar and they'll be able to get higher clocks out of it in a console since they're not going to be aiming for 10 watts or something insanely small like most Jaguar chips.
Can Crusher
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(01-17-2013, 05:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Graphics Horse

I know, but we've heard things about it being a 'radical departure'

This happened last time they tried that:

Iacobellis
Junior Member
(01-17-2013, 05:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Can Crusher

This happened last time they tried that:

I was just thinking of this! The good ol' Boomerang.
Mikey Jr.
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(01-17-2013, 06:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by endlessflood

How each company approaches the online side of things next gen will be interesting. I noticed today that bf3stats lists the online player base for the 3 platforms over the course of 2012:

I'm not sure if similar data is available for other big online games, but that was a surprise to me. I know that BF3 has timed (2 week) exclusives on DLC for PS3, but that seems like a relatively minor thing to me. I would be interested to see what the actual sales were like across the two consoles. I can't help but wonder if maybe the fact that Sony online is free was the difference in terms of online player base here, so any changes on that front next gen from either manufacturer should be interesting.

You can create an infinite amount of ps accounts and play online. You canT with xbox.
Karak
Member
(01-17-2013, 06:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

I'd love to see Sony's take on corn. I'm tired of looking at this:

Fucking bravo.
I admit. This got a whole hearted chuckle out of me:)
Ashes
Member
(01-17-2013, 06:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by RoboPlato

I'm thinking it'll be Jaguar. I've heard a lot of good things about efficiency in Jaguar and they'll be able to get higher clocks out of it in a console since they're not going to be aiming for 10 watts or something insanely small like most Jaguar chips.

ExtremeTech did a really cool write up of Jaguar APUs after Amd's keynote at the Hot Chips conference. Towards the end, the author noted how there was going to be an overlap between Jaguar and Trinity at Jaguar's highest watt rating (25w). However, this was in the thin-and-light notebook segment. Overclocking these chips seems like a more expensive venture than to go with Steamroller.

In addition, I also watched Samsung's keynote at CES, and noted how they dealt with the issue (more performance at lower power), and they have doubled up and have gone with an octo design.

It's got me thinking that perhaps Microsoft felt they had to go with 8core, just to meet the performance requirements.
8x Jaguar at 25w (highest Jaguar part on paper), is about roughly 2xquad-cores Jaguars. That very very rough estimate puts it in the same ball park as target designs, no?

Edit: source:
http://m.extremetech.com/extremetech...f4be71693016e2
http://m.extremetech.com/extremetech...f4be7169302f54

Edit: tldr: maybe Microsoft had to go with to 8core Jaguar, and perhaps Sony, if they are going for a more off-the-shelf design, will have to go with Steamroller quad-core parts. But really.. Who knows? ;p
Last edited by Ashes; 01-17-2013 at 06:49 AM.
MuseManMike
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(01-17-2013, 06:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Iacobellis

I feel like if Sony made any drastic changes to the DualShock, it would just tarnish it. It's so synonymous to PlayStation, ya know?

Everything is permitted. I'm over the Dualshock.

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