[LiK]

By connecting to a PC or PS3. Again, all I pointed was that there is a limit. I bought a massive card to avoid swapping and thinking "Hmm... where did I save that game?". It's not a portable device anymore if I am connecting to other devices for it to operate. PS+ backup is the closest thing to making it portable, but even that is inferiorating. Regardless, it's a very "exclusive" list all of a sudden. GraveRobberX should know better since he owns shit loads of games. Do you know how annoying it'll be to delete a game, redownload/restore it, and download the patches all over again? Very annoying.

Exactly. If the PS3 doesn't have this issue then why does the Vita does?

[endless dave]

If you're havin' Vita problems I feel bad for you, son You got ninety nine games, not a hundred and one

fucking BRAVO

[rockx4]

Apparently not. Apparently I'm a foolish consumer for wanting to buy more memory to buy more games and apps.

I would be pissed if my Steam library limited my access to 100 games at a time, regardless of my hard drive space.

[GraveRobberX]

I'm not misinformed. I am perfectly aware of it and haven't run in to the problem. That doesn't make it any less stupid.

Yeah but it's not something catastrophic

Maybe in R&D and Testing they thought a round 3 digit # was the threshold

Mostly in handhelds, there is huge turnover
You move from game to game, most gamers in general just delete stuff to make room for new stuff
There maybe hoarders (looks like only a few) who want every thing they bought/got since 2006 on their Vita, cause the Vita gives them the goddamn option

There are better thing to bitch about, this isn't Sony trying to screw you
Now if they somehow raised it 200 and charged you an extra $20 for that option, then I will eat crow

Look at how my setup is:






Have 3GB's free from my 8GB card, so it's never a huge undertaking

Also with PS+ and Cloud Saves, it's way better now rather than backing up manually

[sajj316]

By connecting to a PC or PS3. Again, all I pointed was that there is a limit. I bought a massive card to avoid swapping and thinking "Hmm... where did I save that game?". It's not a portable device anymore if I am connecting to other devices for it to operate. PS+ backup is the closest thing to making it portable, but even that is inferiorating. Regardless, it's a very "exclusive" list all of a sudden. GraveRobberX should know better since he owns shit loads of games. Do you know how annoying it'll be to delete a game, redownload/restore it, and download the patches all over again? Very annoying.

Guys .. stop ragging on shagg. He is absolutely right in his concerns. Sony needs to fix this. Period.

[Skilletor]

If you're havin' Vita problems I feel bad for you, son You got ninety nine games, not a hundred and one

I missed this. Hilarious.

Yeah but it's not something catastrophic Maybe in R&D and Testing they thought a round 3 digit # was the threshold Mostly in handhelds, there is huge turnover You move from game to game, most gamers in general just delete stuff to make room for new stuff There maybe hoarders (looks like only a few) who want every thing they bought/got since 2006 on their Vita, cause the Vita gives them the goddamn option There are better thing to bitch about, this isn't Sony trying to screw you Now if they somehow raised it 200 and charged you an extra $20 for that option, then I will eat crow Look at how my setup is:

Dude, it's a videogame system. Nothing regarding videogames will be catastophic. It is a problem. It is an issue that needs to be addressed and by bringing this up and having others discuss it, get it on news sites, maybe something will be. I'm not most gamers. It's obviously a problem for some people. If it's not for you, good. It is for others.

[shagg_187]

Adding to the original point, no where in that message does it say "Please connect your Vita to a PC or PS3 to backup your games. Additionally, you can also save your files on PS+."

These are the things that require going to a forum and creating a thread, which I did. Straight up telling to delete a file is a bit negative, IMO.

[Shining Sunshine]

By connecting to a PC or PS3. Again, all I pointed was that there is a limit. I bought a massive card to avoid swapping and thinking "Hmm... where did I save that game?". It's not a portable device anymore if I am connecting to other devices for it to operate. PS+ backup is the closest thing to making it portable, but even that is inferiorating. Regardless, it's a very "exclusive" list all of a sudden. GraveRobberX should know better since he owns shit loads of games. Do you know how annoying it'll be to delete a game, redownload/restore it, and download the patches all over again? Very annoying.

Because the memory card is not standard. The Vita has to run without the memory card. It has an internal flash storage for applications.

You can argue that the OS should provide the same function like an Android device's 'Move to SD Card', but this thread has already indicated that very few people, a low percentage of the users, will need this in the near future.

I have no doubt that Sony was already working on a solution before Vita was even launched.

[heckmanimation]

what the hell - engagdget is reporting this now....its not like this is new information. we've known this for however long the systems been out... media is just looking for anyway to rip on vita. such malarky!

[sajj316]

what the hell - engagdget is reporting this now....its not like this is new information. we've known this for however long the systems been out... media is jsut looking for anyway to rip on vita. such malarky!

To be honest, I have no problem with media being all over it. If anything, it sheds light on an obvious flaw. They need to fix this.

[MeBecomingI]

Hopefully they patch that up soon because it is a dumb limit (unless it is some because of some RAM issue). So yeah, it is a hindrance but I'm not sure it is worth the anger like the I've seen in the comments of the Engadget article and the like but it should be addressed by Sony regardless, though. I hope they acknowledge this and at least issue a response.

[jetsetfluken]

Only thing I'm shitting bricks is once I hit 100 Trophy Games I think I read somewhere, once you start 101, the oldest disappears =/ So no true PS Vita history just a part of it I'm up to roughly 25 titles at the moment already

Where did you hear this? I'd like to know. I'm not doubting it, but the only possibility here is that it's 100 limit on what the Trophy app's "PS Vita system" tab, a.k.a. "local trophy data" is displayed. And if a game is re-booted, it'll shoot back to the top of that local data list.
When going to "PlayStation Network" (or view via PS3 or 3rd party sites), all should be displayed. Games on your trophy list won't start disappearing since that data is all on the PSN servers.

[clem84]

Needing to have a stupid icon on your desktop for every game you play is dumb enough as it is. Having a 100 games limit??? I'm at a loss for words.

[heckmanimation]

To be honest, I have no problem with media being all over it. If anything, it sheds light on an obvious flaw. They need to fix this.

i agree that it will help bring the issue to the attention of sony more than jsut fans sounding off.

but its how they spin all things vita related.

[shagg_187]

There maybe hoarders (looks like only a few) who want every thing they bought/got since 2006 on their Vita, cause the Vita gives them the goddamn option There are better thing to bitch about, this isn't Sony trying to screw you Now if they somehow raised it 200 and charged you an extra $20 for that option, then I will eat crow Also with PS+ and Cloud Saves, it's way better now rather than backing up manually

Oh my. Funny you're calling me a hoarder when you hoarded gazillion PS+ cards, and have gazillion Trophies. As I said before, How would you feel if Sony says "You've reached the maximum number of Platinum trophies, and your virtual trophy cabinet is full. Please delete one to make room for others." or "You've reached the maximum number of PS+ redempttion. Please wait for your membership to expire before you can reload more".

I'm done with this thread. I'm glad a few have similar opinion. Justifying this is silly. Call me a hoarder all you want, but it's about convenience. I don't give a fuck about trophies or welcome parks or audio chat or music or videos or any of that for all it matters. Vita is a "Portable Gaming System".

Here's what a portable gaming system should do: Allow you to play games that you want to play, and allow you to save files without the fear of losing it.

Not purchasing any more Vita titles until I see one that's worth the "100 bubble list". My concern is voiced. It was a surprise. I guess now I know how it feels to be on the receiving end of a stick, and I apologize if I have ever questioned anyone else's gaming habits before (I know I have).

[Skilletor]

It's hilarious and sad to me that people are defending an arbitrary limit on the number of apps and games you may have at any given time on their handheld.

[see5harp]

Needing to have a stupid icon on your desktop for every game you play is dumb enough as it is. Having a 100 games limit??? I'm at a loss for words.

That isn't a big deal to me. The worst decision made was tying saves to those bubbles.

[AwRy108]

Just posted by Joystiq, too. No way SONY can ignore this amount of bad press. Such a shame that this it what it takes for them to fix such a simple OS problem that their loyal users have been talking about for nearly a year.

[Shining Sunshine]

It's hilarious and sad to me that people are defending an arbitrary limit on the number of apps and games you may have at any given time on their handheld.

Didn't see you make a big deal of it in this thread.

[AwRy108]

Oh my. Funny you're calling me a hoarder when you hoarded gazillion PS+ cards, and have gazillion Trophies. As I said before, How would you feel if Sony says "You've reached the maximum number of Platinum trophies, and your virtual trophy cabinet is full. Please delete one to make room for others." or "You've reached the maximum number of PS+ redempttion. Please wait for your membership to expire before you can reload more". I'm done with this thread. I'm glad a few have similar opinion. Justifying this is silly. Call me a hoarder all you want, but it's about convenience. I don't give a fuck about trophies or welcome parks or audio chat or music or videos or any of that for all it matters. Vita is a "Portable Gaming System". Here's what a portable gaming system should do: Allow you to play games that you want to play, and allow you to save files without the fear of losing it. Not purchasing any more Vita titles until I see one that's worth the "100 bubble list". My concern is voiced. It was a surprised. I guess now I know how it feels to be on the receiving end of a stick, and I apologize if I have ever questioned anyone else's gaming habits before (I know I have).

Well said, Shagg

[Retro]

If you're havin' Vita problems I feel bad for you, son You got ninety nine games, not a hundred and one

[jetsetfluken]

That isn't a big deal to me. The worst decision made was tying saves to those bubbles.

It's one of the biggest things keeping the Vita trophy system clean. Give the end user "total" access to saves, and they manipulate and cheat the (achievement/trophy) system and the whole thing makes it lose it's value.

Like what happened with Xbox 360 and PS3. MS was even more generous to end users by giving them access to tinker with Profiles, and what came of that in terms of achievements is very saddening. Xbox 360 software achievements and PS3 software trophies are equally screwed in their own way now.

Hope MS and Sony learn from their mistakes this gen with the new consoles. The Vita is a good indication that Sony may have.

Though the PS3+Vita versions with different lists that have "cross save" and pop on opposite version is an oversight by these developers, it's technically trophy manipulation (or "gamesaving") and needs to be told to these devs. It's not something that was originally intended to happen. The original intention was simply to bring your game on the go.

[Skilletor]

Didn't see you make a big deal of it in this thread.

Okay.

[GraveRobberX]

Oh my. Funny you're calling me a hoarder when you hoarded gazillion PS+ cards, and have gazillion Trophies. As I said before, How would you feel if Sony says "You've reached the maximum number of Platinum trophies, and your virtual trophy cabinet is full. Please delete one to make room for others." or "You've reached the maximum number of PS+ redempttion. Please wait for your membership to expire before you can reload more".

Yes I hoarded a gazillion PS+ codes, 2 years = a gazillion, give me a fucking break. I gave more out then I kept, hell 2.5 years I gave to most who requested it here on GAF, so before you try to throw me under the bus and try to make me sound aloof by my posting
Same goes for Trophies, I like earning them, if Sony told me upfront that after 100 titles, older titles will vanish from your history on your console, yet be available to be seen somewhere else and still count, I might have second thoughts
They have kept me satisfied on that front, and I keep rewarding them with my dollars to give me content

If that was the case and it was brought upon me on a later update on these choices, then I would e pissed
They told you this up front
You get 100 Bubbles (-20 due to mandatory, I give you that, I would delete most of them ASAP like the Welcome Park/AT&T and a few others)

Your being upset at me for no reason, I'm not trying to troll or fuck with you
Your saying your getting cock-blocked, but the thing is Sony already has stated Vita may induce cock-blocking features, whose fault is that?

I'm done with this thread. I'm glad a few have similar opinion. Justifying this is silly. Call me a hoarder all you want, but it's about convenience. I don't give a fuck about trophies or welcome parks or audio chat or music or videos or any of that for all it matters. Vita is a "Portable Gaming System".

I'm not justifying it, I'm trying to resolve your problem, until this situation gets resolved in your favor, why not try another way to still have your gaming habits and content
So you have 80 bubbles to work with, I highly doubt your going through all 80 bubbles with-in a weeks time, hell a month

I get it you want all your content in your hands at all times, but until then it truly comes to realization, sacrifices will need to be made

Here's what a portable gaming system should do: Allow you to play games that you want to play, and allow you to save files without the fear of losing it. Not purchasing any more Vita titles until I see one that's worth the "100 bubble list". My concern is voiced. It was a surprised. I guess now I know how it feels to be on the receiving end of a stick, and I apologize if I have ever questioned anyone else's gaming habits before (I know I have).

The Vita lets you do that
The Vita has a "situation" that closes it off from being a true unlimited handheld
Just remove some stuff that is not needed, put newer stuff on

PS3 and Vita are different beasts all together, so comparisons don't work there

[Littlegator]

ice cold

[see5harp]

It's one of the biggest things keeping the Vita trophy system clean. Give the end user "total" access to saves, and they manipulate and cheat the system and the whole thing makes it lose it's value. Like what happened with Xbox 360 and PS3. Hope MS and Sony learn from their mistakes this gen with the new consoles. The Vita is a good indication that Sony may have.

That doesn't matter at all to me. I like to be able to compare with friends but could not care less about the guys actively trying to compete on a global scale. Being able to backup saves easily like the psp makes much more sense to me.

To your edit: I don't see that the Vita is an indication that Sony has learned from mistakes at all. It just seems like they are again reacting to competitors (iOS in this case). I suppose if you use your device like I use my iPhone, plugging into my computer to sync games, podcasts, etc. the whole save issue isn't a big deal, but I've noticed transferring games, saves to be incredibly slow on Vita. It's not nearly as quick or easy as using iTunes is which is really saying something.

[jetsetfluken]

That doesn't matter at all to me. I like to be able to compare with friends but could not care less about the guys actively trying to compete on a global scale. Being able to backup saves easily like the psp makes much more sense to me.

I understand you and others don't hold the feature to a high regard, and it really doesn't matter if others do either (and trust me, they do....and they are not simply all soulless "score hunters"). It's a simple matter of fact that it's a big feature on the platform and needs to be kept clean and respectable for the platform to be serious in a technical sense so to speak, just as any other portion of the OS is maintained (prevention of piracy, etc). Gone are the days where the only thing to maintain is piracy. With these fully online platforms, there's more elements.

I have though, recently thought of a solution for people like you (though MS or Sony wouldn't be smart enough to implement):
Two types of save data...online and offline.

• Online saves are necessary to unlock achievements/trophies. You must be connected online to XBL/PSN to use these saves and unlock achievements/trophies. They can only be backed up to the "proprietary" online cloud. This is because when the end user is given access to tinker with the saves via backing up to PC, bad things happen. These could be toted as "Xbox Live-enabled Save Data" by MS for example.
• Offline saves. For people like you who don't care about achievements/trophies, there would be offline saves. These can be backed up to PC or cloud or USB media. An offline save CANNOT be converted into an online save, to avoid bringing any manipulation/coding edits into the "legit" online saves.
  "Offline" saves can be used while playing online of course, but achievements would be deactivated. You would have to start a new save if you want to play with the clean "online save".
  With these "offline saves", the days of downloading 100% files from places just to mess around would be acceptable. However, this wouldn't be possible with online saves.

Now the question would be, then what would stop the user from manipulating the "online saves"? Read back a bit. They wouldn't have access to them because the only place to back up to, or move to and from the console, is the MS/Sony's online cloud. There's then the worry about possible manipulation of offline to online format saves, but this wouldn't be possible either since the online type would use some kind of proprietary coding or something that wouldn't even be possible to see since there is no PC or USB backup, only cloud.

Then for XBL's sake there's prevention of Profile manipulation. It's a pretty insulting oversight that this is even still possible, that this stuff is able to be brought back over to XBL. I can imagine this won't be possible with the new console.

I can see something like that being a nice middleground between the two sides...people who care about achievements/trophies and want it clean, and people who don't care and just want access to their saves. I can only imagine the only people angered would be people out to cheat the systems.

Somehow I hope someone out there at MS or something is reading and gets a clue on how to keep these achievement systems 100% clean. Step it up. The manipulation by children really says something about the professional quality of the company towards that area. The new consoles need to provide more than just a power boost, but a total security boost.

[heyf00L]

Well you must have filled the card with very small/bitesized games and apps. I don't see this being a common case though. Ask Sony or just suck it up and keep playing. What are you going to do with 100 games anyways? I have like 4 games on my Phone and 5 digital ones on my Vita.

I agree, Mr. Blind Sony Apologist, this is OP's fault.

It's unthinkable that someone would use their Vita for games.

[fluffydelusions]

Posted that this hit engadget? Even used OP pic
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/17/p...plication-cap/

EDIT: nm I'm late per usual lol

[Ponn01]

Just posted by Joystiq, too. No way SONY can ignore this amount of bad press. Such a shame that this it what it takes for them to fix such a simple OS problem that their loyal users have been talking about for nearly a year.

Are you an OS developer? Don't claim its easy, just like all the people claiming it was easy to sync PS3 trophies with Vita trophies. That took time too. The Vita is already susceptable to lockups and it seems to be related to how many apps you use and memory. If you start adding folders and more app bubbles that is more internal memory needed to access the OS while you have other apps and games open. With time this may be resolved, i'd rather they work on fixing the current lockup issues FIRST before they start adding more but whatever. Simply put the Vita already does more with its apps and OS then iPhones or 3DS which is why you have a bunch of knee jerkers in here just piling on without thinking about the "why"

[Kyon]

^ tell ha

Just posted by Joystiq, too. No way SONY can ignore this amount of bad press. Such a shame that this it what it takes for them to fix such a simple OS problem that their loyal users have been talking about for nearly a year.

I think you are overreacting. It's an issue and I feel bad for the OP. hope Sony patches it. Although we did know about the limit since the beginning though. Idk

[PapaJustify]

Ehh, I am sorry for OP, but seriously I don't blame Sony for setting a limit - maybe due to technical reasons - who knows. Who would ever imagine there are users that have 100+ bubbles on their Vita.

Are there even enough Apps and Games to create 100+ Bubbles? lol

[Ridley327]

Ehh, I am sorry for OP, but seriously I don't blame Sony for setting a limit - maybe due to technical reasons - who knows. Who would ever imagine there are users that have 100+ bubbles on their Vita. Are there even enough Apps and Games to create 100+ Bubbles? lol

Considering that PS1 and PSP games count towards that? Absolutely.

[Kyon]

Ehh, I am sorry for OP, but seriously I don't blame Sony for setting a limit - maybe due to technical reasons - who knows. Who would ever imagine there are users that have 100+ bubbles on their Vita. Are there even enough Apps and Games to create 100+ Bubbles? lol

I'm guessing the majority are minis.

[PapaJustify]

Yeah OP posted a list. I didn't really expected an answer to this question. Just wanted to play on this "Vita has no game" thing. But thanks anyway :)

[CambriaRising]

Dear Diary,

Today I learned that the Vita actually has over 100 apps to use.

In all seriousness, does this count the apps that are created when you put a game in? If so, couldn't you just delete some of those? Or do they hold save data? I have no idea, I have only had a vita for about a month.

[VanWinkle]

Ehh, I am sorry for OP, but seriously I don't blame Sony for setting a limit - maybe due to technical reasons - who knows. Who would ever imagine there are users that have 100+ bubbles on their Vita. Are there even enough Apps and Games to create 100+ Bubbles? lol

Probably a couple thousand counting all the Vita, PS1, PSP, and minis.

[Noisepurge]

Vita could use some folders

hear, hear!

[androvsky]

Dear Diary, Today I learned that the Vita actually has over 100 apps to use. In all seriousness, does this count the apps that are created when you put a game in? If so, couldn't you just delete some of those? Or do they hold save data? I have no idea, I have only had a vita for about a month.

They might hold save data or DLC. Depends on the game I think, some save on the game cart, some save on the system.

I think there's too many icons by default anyway, many of which I don't use. Just throw on a couple games and a few typical apps (Netflix, Twitter, Facebook) and I'd already want some folders.

[grimshawish]

Didn't the Vita just have an update or am I making that up?
Anyway this seems like a bad thing for all parties so am sure Sony will get around to fixing it.

Don't know how people manage so many pages with just a few icons on them. My 3DS is displaying about 45 (plus a few more to the side, but there a preview type affair) on page one.

Oversight I guess. My 3DS was cluttered for a long time before I embraced folders.
Telling people to delete stuff is pretty much 'don't buy from us!'; surprised no one realised this in development.

[Skilletor]

Seriously people with the no games shit? Seriously?

Even if it didn't, PSP, PS1, and minis and apps all add up.

[CamHostage]

Ehh, I am sorry for OP, but seriously I don't blame Sony for setting a limit - maybe due to technical reasons - who knows. Who would ever imagine there are users that have 100+ bubbles on their Vita. Are there even enough Apps and Games to create 100+ Bubbles? lol

1) It has been out for 11 months and people are already hitting the cap. Even if users are conservative and only download say 20 games a year and four or five apps (think Facebook, T@G, Netflix, Hulu, Twitter, and everything else that hits the web that makes Vita,) there's no way a regular consumer will not hit that cap within four years of the system's lifespan.

2) Consider that a game itself creates a bubble, and that bubble holds the save progress for that game. (And if people are unsure of this, I just tried deleting a bubble and yep, it's asking me to start a new game rather than resume my progress.) So say you play Tony Hawk once every few weeks for fun. You play Burnout. You play Lumines. You play Soul Survivor with your friends when they're in town. You have a handful of games you play now and then. NONE of those bubbles can ever be removed or else you will have none of the stages unlocked and none of your progress tracked. Unlike with a Game Boy where I can plug in a game from 15 years ago and pick up and play it because the save is right there on the card, with Vita I have to either keep that save and possibly not download more content to my card if I max out, or transfer it and transfer it back or else it is gone.

3) Remember that it's not just Vita games, it's also PSP games, social apps, demos, episodic games, PS Mobile, and all the little apps that could easily and readily fit on the 32GB card you paid for that cannot be stored on your readily-available space.

4) Also keep in mind that the Vita comes pre-installed with by my count 15 apps that cannot (or at least should not) be deleted. Those apps are Settings, PlayStation Store, Trophies, Content Manager, Network Operator (for 3G), Friends, Group Messaging, Remote Play, Videos, Photos, Music, Party, Welcome Park, Near, Browser. (Maps and Email also are on my machine, but I can't recall if I added those or if they were pre-installed with the 3G version.) So right off the bat, you're down to 85% capacity for games and apps.

5) Vita's content manager does not work on Linux. It obviously doesn't work with Android or iOS or Chromebook either (I'm also going to guess no Windows RT as well) and won't synch with a home NAS, and given that people are moving away from traditional computers to tablets and cloud-based devices, the PC-based content manager may become less an option with this generation of computer users. I already know families who have just a work laptop and then an iPad for the family, and I'm not sure they'd be happy with storing all the kids' games on their company computer.

I'm not pointing out these facts to berate Sony, and I don't consider this a true crisis "system's broken!" situation at this very moment (though I understand those that do,) but it's certainly something Sony needs to address as even a casual Vita user will max out their system in due time.

[Javier]

For those wondering, the 3DS has a limit on 300 apps.

[see5harp]

Luckily with PSP games, the save files are actually separate from the bubble and can be accessed from settings. This is on account of emulation necessity and not common sense though. Strangely enough they sometimes see fit to separate update and install data in the settings menu for some vita games as well. It's super inconsistant.

[chickdigger802]

For those wondering, the 3DS has a limit on 300 apps.

For those wondering, the 3DS has a limit on 300 apps.

also 60 per folder.

[dsmoke1986]

This is pathetic...Absolutely embarassing for a handheld that is supposed to be competing with an IOS device.

[bryehn]

Unfortunately, it looks as if the Vita has a 100 app limit regardless of the memory card that's in the system. Apparently you can't switch out cards like you can in the PSP.

Huh? I have several memory cards that I swap between all the time. Doubt I have 100 apps between them though.

[CambriaRising]

This is pathetic...Absolutely embarassing for a handheld that is supposed to be competing with an IOS device.

Before folders you could only put 140 apps on an iOS device.

[Fuzzy]

also 60 per folder.

Which puts the real limit at 17,820 for the 3DS.

300 spaces * 60 per folder = 18K - 60 for each app that can't be moved into a folder (inserted game card, eShop, Settings).

[oldmario]

For those wondering, the 3DS has a limit on 300 apps.

also 60 per folder.

Difference between Vita and 3ds is the 3ds you need 1 icon for all your cart games, on Vita you have to have an icon for each of the physical carts that you own